[OLD] UGw Threshold

Sorry that this is a slight tangent, but, for those of you running 4x werebear, do you think that pridemage could possibly replace him as maybe a 2 of? I don't think getting rid of the bear entirely for pridemage is a good idea due to him being bigger in the late game, but I feel that removing a couple might be a good move. I mean other than adding extra mana (which is somewhat useful-not so much in lists with higher land counts), werebear is simply a medium sized beatstick. Pridemage, however, helps to win goyf wars, is better in the early game, and can even-with a little help-nuke tops (swing in with predator and name the top to destroy, then in response to the opponent tapping it, nail it with the pridemage).

The inclusion of coatl makes this an even better idea because he fills the beater position that werebear held. Plus this moves the entire deck further out of graveyard reliance.

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Originally Posted by godryk

I'm not too sold on Hierarch as a 2-of, I think it's the kind of card you want to see in your first seven to get the most of it, I wouldn't play any if I were to play only 2.

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I agree. You also want to see the exalted ability build up. Although I think its a very good card I'm not sure if its right for the deck. It fits better in an more aggressive deck. Mana acceleration isn't necessarily what this deck want's when it can just slow the game down and keep dropping lands.

Maybe I missed it (I only went back 2 pages) but has anyone tried Jenara, Asura of War in this deck yet? I have been playing around with running her as a 2-of in place of Mystic Enforcer and I really like her. Here is my list:

Lands 18:
4x Tropical Island
3x Tundra
3x Flooded Strand
2x Polluted Delta
4x Wasteland
2x Island

Threats 14:
4x Nimble Mongoose
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Meddling Mage
2x Jenara, Asura of War

Draw/Counter 21:
4x Force of Will
4x Daze
3x Spell Snare
3x Stifle
4x Brainstorm
3x Portent

Utility 7:
3x Swords to Plowshares
2x Sensei's Divining Top
2x Krosan Grip

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Sideboard 15:
2x Krosan Grip
3x Tormod's Crypt
3x Trygon Predator
3x Pithing Needle
2x Hydroblast
2x Blue Elemental Blast


The Portent in the deck is run in place of Ponder mainly due to the existence of Meddling Mage in the main deck. It also helps with the mana denial plan.

Jenara, Asura of War makes a nice 3-drop beater and ramps up larger than Mystic Enforcer can get. Most of the games are decided before this happens though. The loss of Protection from Black has not seemed to make that big of a difference. Swords to Plowshares easily wastes a Tombstalker which I found to be the only real threat that Mystic Enforcer had an edge on. The EOT +1/+1 counter on Jenara makes her a formidable opponent to deal with. The one thing I don't like about her is that she can be hit by Smother (which I have yet to run into, but expect that I will). I won a few games with just a Tarmogoyf/Meddling Mage mixture with a single Jenara on the table. When Jenara hit the board I did not even have threshold yet and still won the games.

Most of my losses were single game losses, testing on MWS in M-L league and mwsplay.net. This card has yet to be tested by myself IRL so I'm interested in seeing what people have to say about her.

Just off the top of my head, it seems like Noble Hierarch and Lorescale Coatl go nicely together. Turn 1 Hierarch, Turn 2 Coatl is pretty good. That probably forces Mongoose out of the deck, though, and I'm not so sure yet how I feel about that.

EDIT: Maybe there's still room for Mongoose, after all.

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Counterbalance
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Noble Hierarch
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Lorescale Coatl

4 Flooded Strand
4 Windswept Heath
4 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
2 Island
1 Forest

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Originally Posted by Volt

Just off the top of my head, it seems like Noble Hierarch and Lorescale Coatl go nicely together. Turn 1 Hierarch, Turn 2 Coatl is pretty good. That probably forces Mongoose out of the deck, though, and I'm not so sure yet how I feel about that.

EDIT: Maybe there's still room for Mongoose, after all.

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Counterbalance
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Noble Hierarch
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Lorescale Coatl

4 Flooded Strand
4 Windswept Heath
4 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
2 Island
1 Forest

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Try my list, its awesome:

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Lorescale Coatl
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Spell Snare
4 Counterbalance
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sower of Temptation
1 Krosan Grip
1 Oblivion Ring/Counterspell (flip a coin)

(18 lands)
4 Flooded Strand
4 Windswept Heath
1 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Forest

4 Hydroblast
2 Pithing Needle
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Trygon Predator
3 Krosan Grip
2 Path to Exile

Its not perfect, but it's the first time Ive been happy with the list in over a month. It seems like Ive tried everything it seems in that beater role. Mongoose, Trinket Mage, Trygon Predator, Werebear, Mystic Enforcer, Rhox War Monk, all of them. Coatl performed better than them all and was overall just AMAZING, and I hate using the word 'amazing' when describing anything in magic. [run-on sentence] In testing tonight, he was always 6/6 or bigger at the end of the game, averaged around a 7.5/7.5, and I can think of only a few instances I wished it were something else from that previous list of cards, whereas there were more instances I was glad that it was blue for FoW payment. [/run-on sentence] The Sowers and the Oblivion Ring/Counterspell slots are the only "weak" ones - i/e the ones im still testing. Perhaps you could try the 3 Heirarch in those slots. The sideboard is solid but could use some work.

@ xsockmonkeyx

Your list looks really nice.

A basic list:

18 Lands:
4 Flooded Strand
4 Windswept Heath
3 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Forest

The core:
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
4 Counterbalance
4 Swords to Plowshares
That is quite obviously.

3 Daze
3 Spell Snare

3 Daze and 3 spell snare is also the right balance. And you definitely want to play spell snares.

The Beaters:
4 Goyf
3-4 Lorescale Coatl
+2 Sower of Temptation/Trygon Predator/Rhox War Monk \\The utility slot

+2 Flex. slots Maybe: O-Ring, Counterspell, 4th spell snare, 4th daze, Noble Hierach, etc.



I would play 4 Coatl + 2 Sower/Predator and 1 O-Ring in the flex. slot +1 random card^^.

I would never play basic plains or forest.

Rest of the list looks fine to me, maybe best option is the Sower

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Originally Posted by johanessen

I would never play basic plains or forest.

Rest of the list looks fine to me, maybe best option is the Sower

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Care to explain? There are still Moon effects and Wastelands in the format. Having the ability to get the mana you need to actually cast your win conditions is important.

My curve for CBalance
1 cc : 20
2 cc : 12
3 cc : 7
5 cc : 4

My decklist
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Lorescale Coatl

4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Counterbalance
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Oblivion Ring

3 Tundra
3 Tropical Island
4 Flooded Strand
3 Windswept Heath
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Island

I dont have place for Spell Snare... any advices? I tried to make a cool curve for Cbalance, is 7 3cc enough?

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Originally Posted by Heresy

I dont have place for Spell Snare... any advices? I tried to make a cool curve for Cbalance, is 7 3cc enough?

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-4 Noble Hierarch
-1 Daze
+3 Spell Snare
+2 Sower of Temptation

The Snake guy is pretty much insane. I'm pretty sure Sower of Temptation needs to be at least a 2-of in every deck, now. (Shackles could be okay, too, I suppose).

shackles wins games that you would otherwise lose.
nothing is as back breaking vs suiblack as yoinking their tombstalker.

Is the snake really that insane? I've been doing a little bit of testing, and so far it merely seems goodish.

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Originally Posted by sauce

shackles wins games that you would otherwise lose.
nothing is as back breaking vs suiblack as yoinking their tombstalker.

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Yeah, because 5 lands against sui black happens all the time : )

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Originally Posted by Volt

Is the snake really that insane? I've been doing a little bit of testing, and so far it merely seems goodish.

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For one mana a turn, with a Top out, you give him 2 counters each turn.

People are saying that he's not a good topdeck, which may be true in the abstract. But, if you are in topdeck mode and you don't have a Top, then you're not winning the game, anyway. By the time you get to topdeck mode, you should already have a Top and plenty of land.

I think he's pretty good. (Though, I should mention that I'm running UGBW NLU. But, I think the same principles apply here).

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Originally Posted by ParkerLewis

Yeah, because 5 lands against sui black happens all the time : )

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im playing the nassif mana base, it happens more often than you think.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KrzyMoose

-4 Noble Hierarch
-1 Daze
+3 Spell Snare
+2 Sower of Temptation

The Snake guy is pretty much insane. I'm pretty sure Sower of Temptation needs to be at least a 2-of in every deck, now. (Shackles could be okay, too, I suppose).

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I feel like Hierarch being busted with turn 2 snake and winning goyf wars... I don't want to remove it without any reasons.

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Originally Posted by Heresy

I feel like Hierarch being busted with turn 2 snake and winning goyf wars... I don't want to remove it without any reasons.

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It doesn't do anything by itself, because 1 damage doesn't count for shit. Accelerating mana is not needed in a deck that's so not mana hungry. When packing a higher curve, running 1 or 2 lands and 3 or 2 useful spells implies a much better effect than running 4 useless creatures.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jak.

Care to explain? There are still Moon effects and Wastelands in the format. Having the ability to get the mana you need to actually cast your win conditions is important.

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With this list (wich i think it's optimal)

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Lorescale Coatl
2 Trygon Predator
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Spell Snare
4 Counterbalance
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Vedalken Shackles


4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island
4 Tundra
2 Island


I think going for islands is the best option

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Originally Posted by johanessen

4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island
4 Tundra
2 Island

I think going for islands is the best option

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It still doesn't work against Moons or Wasteland. All of your creatures require green mana.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Volt

Is the snake really that insane? I've been doing a little bit of testing, and so far it merely seems goodish.

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Volt I'm really with you on this one. Lorescale seems like a slightly better version of Quirion Dryad. The Dryad gets huge sometimes too. But I would favor a creature that will consistently no matter what grow in size and be able to fly over Goyfs and get in damage early and effectively, that creature is Jenara asura of war. A solid beater I think that Uwg thresh has been needing for a while.