[DTB] Vial Goblins

I've done some limited testing on monored goblins with this list, inspired by Eldariel's list.

Lands
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
15 Mountain

Creatures
3 Mogg Fanatic
4 Goblin Ringleader
3 Stingscourger
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Goblin Tinkerer
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Lackey
1 Gempalm Incinerator

Spells
4 AEther Vial
3 Relic of Progenitus

This has been doing very good against a variety of decks, Relic is great against half the format and so is stinger. That together with the LD package gives me a very consistent meta deck. The weakness would be combo and the inabillity to improve that matchup at all (even sideboard I don't see much options) but other then that: Thresh, canadian Thresh, dreadstill, landstill, merfolk, ichorid, TA are all decent MU's so far.

Funny how great minds think a like:tongue:

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Originally Posted by Nessaja

I've done some limited testing on monored goblins with this list, inspired by Eldariel's list.

Lands
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
15 Mountain

Creatures
3 Mogg Fanatic
4 Goblin Ringleader
3 Stingscourger
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Goblin Tinkerer
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Lackey
1 Gempalm Incinerator

Spells
4 AEther Vial
3 Relic of Progenitus

This has been doing very good against a variety of decks, Relic is great against half the format and so is stinger. That together with the LD package gives me a very consistent meta deck. The weakness would be combo and the inabillity to improve that matchup at all (even sideboard I don't see much options) but other then that: Thresh, canadian Thresh, dreadstill, landstill, merfolk, ichorid, TA are all decent MU's so far.

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THIS is EXACTLY the list I've been testing and have came to the same conclusions .. even with multiple diff sideboards, Im now leaning toward the green splash for at least krosan grips ../ tin streets

Basically a streamline build of more a traditional main 60 with tin street (with out sting scorcher) also has good matches ver the same decks you've listed.
And has the same weakness (combo) which 9times outta 10 we will not beat 2/3 but the decks we have good games against can.

So not to sound like an echo or broken record (someone had posted before) IGNORE the combo match and strengthen all the other.

That leaves combo as our number 1 worst match up what is number 2?

I feel like the fanatics are a bit weak. I keep throwing them in and out because they're so often dead cards.

As for Sting vs Tin Street. Sting works against nought/stalker/goyf and doesn't require the splash. I much prefer Stinger as of now. I'm entirely torn on what to replace Fanatics with. The MU where I like them would be against Elves and.. ehm.. Ichorid.. and pinging Dark Confidants. I don't feel like it's really worth it though. When it comes to turn 1 lackeys, I'd rather have Sting/Gempalm Incinerator as one deals with Goyfs and the other draws me a card, which is great. Lategame Gempalm Incinerator is also a much better draw, often capable of dealing with any threat they might have on the table, uncounterable too.

Relics main have been absolutely great in so many matchups. It's hard to believe that Goblins could do without for so long.

As for the green splash, this would be for enchantment hate. Now I agree with you that for instance Solitary Confinement is not something we can deal with. The same can be said for Humility. However, the rest of the enchantments are quite doable. Siege Gang goes a long way dealing with Moat/Propaganda etc. And if it's for nought we already have stingers/tinkerer.

While typing this I realize that I forgot one major enchantment with Engineered Plague. With both Goblins and Merfolk as DTB it suddenly became a good meta call to have those in the board =/ annoying this definitly is a concern that the sideboard can be used for.

Current sideboard
4 Pithing Needle
3 Goblin Tinker
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Goblin Sharpshooter

and 3 open slots. Was considering Goblin King to deal with Plagues.

Stuff like plagues, humility etc is the reason why people splash green nowadays :) Why are you trying to reinvent the wheel?

Because mono red goblins has both strong mana disruption and a stable manabase while splashing makes you vulnerable to stifle and wasteland which is extremely common?

In addition, Humility isn't a large part of the meta. And as for plagues, Goblins has been fine with it before, they should be fine this time as well (that's before Krosan Grip and before splashing with goblins at all). Not trying to reinvent the wheel, trying to get positive matchups against the gross majority off the meta.

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Originally Posted by Nessaja

As for the green splash, this would be for enchantment hate. Now I agree with you that for instance Solitary Confinement is not something we can deal with. The same can be said for Humility.

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If you find those and don't like the green splash you could try Anarchy too.

I didn't find King useful vs plague. I prefer something like Goon (that avoids pyroclasm too and it's bigger than goyf or TS) or Patron of the Akki.

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Originally Posted by GreenOne

I didn't find King useful vs plague. I prefer something like Goon (that avoids pyroclasm too and it's bigger than goyf or TS) or Patron of the Akki.

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But goon does nothing if we haven't other goblins that were killed by the plague...:frown:

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Originally Posted by GoldenCid

But goon does nothing if we haven't other goblins that were killed by the plague...:frown:

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It depends on the number of the opponent's creatures.
If the opponent has 0 creatures then goon still beats for 4 a turn even with double plague. You only gotta have 1 more goon than opponent has creatures (you still have Pyrokinesis/Stingscourger to deal with opponent's creatures). Seems hard to do, but between our creature removal, creature bounce and Matron/Ringleader to find our goons is easier than it seems.

Also, with a single plague down goons are still bigger than goyf and trade with a Tombstalker. Between Port and Wasteland that monored support, double plague shouldn't come out often too.

I just don't understand why this is a DTW now... nothing extreme has happened that would push this out of the DTB spot... why is no one playing this?

I remember when it was one of the most common decks around, and now it isn't even played that often, in fact it is quite rare that I see it around nowadays.

Questions:

1. With the sudden increase in merfolk/thresh as of late, do you guys think that goblins can/will make T8 in the prix?

2. Why is this deck less common than it used to be?

IMO

Increase in Combo (bad matchup)
As a result, increase in Landstill/Dreadstill (not that good of a matchup for R/b R/b/g)
Perhaps, increase in anti tribal hate in fear of both Merfolk and grapeshot elves that affect goblins too.

It's still a very common deck, it's in every meta it just doesn't seem to get in the T8 as much.

edit: Boartusk Liege, I feel ashamed for suggesting this card. But he's probably the best anti Plague Card big like goon, pumping others like King. Just a heavy mana investment. So kinda need Vial.

I was unable to play two weekends ago, so I could not try the great Dralnu's Crusade experiment. I will give it a try Sunday hopefully.

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Originally Posted by thefreakaccident

Questions:

1. With the sudden increase in merfolk/thresh as of late, do you guys think that goblins can/will make T8 in the prix?

2. Why is this deck less common than it used to be?

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I will almost guarantee that Goblins will make a Top 8 at the Grand Prix. I think the most played deck will come down to Threshold and Goblins. If you don't expect goblins to show up then you will be dead wrong.

I think there will be 2 Threshold, 2 Storm Combo, 1 Goblins with 3 random decks in the top 8.

I think the question should be what version of goblins is best. I like my 3 color approach to the deck, but I'm not sure if its the best. I think in regards to the GP if gives you the most tools to fight through the hate that you will encounter.

Let me know what you guys think.

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Originally Posted by nickrit2000

I think there will be 2 Threshold, 2 Storm Combo, 1 Goblins with 3 random decks in the top 8.

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Not giving landstill and more specifically dreadstill much credit here. Unless you're assuming they'd be in one of the "random 3".

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Originally Posted by Smog

Not giving landstill and more specifically dreadstill much credit here. Unless you're assuming they'd be in one of the "random 3".

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First of all, Dreadstill is an awful deck and doesn't deserve any credit.

I do think Dreadstill doesn't have a place anymore in the metagame when you can play threshold with the natural order combo which is by far a lot stronger than a dreadnought.


I could see landstill making the top 8.

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Originally Posted by nickrit2000

First of all, Dreadstill is an awful deck and doesn't deserve any credit.

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Wow.

Not to pick a fight but.

http://www.deckcheck.net/list.php?ty...&format=Legacy

http://www.deckcheck.net/list.php?ty...&format=Legacy

For an awful deck, it's been having more success than goblins lately.

RB Goblins is the best version right now I think. It can answer combo with Thoughtseize and Earwig Squad, sure it will never be your best matchup but you just need a realistic chance of beating combo, you can't expect to just dodge it all tournament long. That said, Thoughtseize answer a whole host of problems and the peek effect can be very helpful to figure out what your lines of play should be. I am a great fan of Thoughtseize in the maindeck actually as it also forego's the need of a green splash to answer random problems. Guess what, Thoughtseize does that too.

I would focus my sideboard on beating combo and put 4 Relic of Progenitus and 3/4 Pyrokinesis in there too. There aren't any other cards you would actually prefer over your standard set of Goblins anyway in almost all matchups.

Also, I predict that Dreadstill isn't going to make T8 unless some very good players like Luis-Scott Vargas decide to run it. If Natural Order Threshold gets played I predict that will take up a slot. Mono Red Goblins will probably pick a spot as one will probably have the luck not playing against combo all day and RB Goblins might too. Storm combo might steal a slot but I am not sure. A Merfolk player is going to make it and there will be 3/4 Counterbalance decks there.

I top 8ed with R/G gobs GPT INDY

I didnt miss the black all day.
I could have mulld for a more agressive hand g3 V.S (team u.s.a) but I took the conservitive 6 and tryed to over welm him with gobs unfortunetly Mana was an issue ...
all and all was a good day

That's why I've been advocating 25+ lands all along. The principal reason you lose games is because of not being able to use all the bombs in your hand as your Lackey/Vial got dealt with. 24-26 lands means you can almost invariably hardcast spells when need be.

It also means that you can afford to use your Wastelands pretty liberally as you usually have the lands to make up for it. Finally, it enables fitting full Port/Waste package even to 3c lists, and mono-coloured lists can play additional colourless lands such as Mutavaults to boost (the card is surprisingly handy, btw).

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Originally Posted by Eldariel

That's why I've been advocating 25+ lands all along. The principal reason you lose games is because of not being able to use all the bombs in your hand as your Lackey/Vial got dealt with. 24-26 lands means you can almost invariably hardcast spells when need be.

It also means that you can afford to use your Wastelands pretty liberally as you usually have the lands to make up for it. Finally, it enables fitting full Port/Waste package even to 3c lists, and mono-coloured lists can play additional colourless lands such as Mutavaults to boost (the card is surprisingly handy, btw).

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I disagree I feel that the 23 lands is the correct number 25 is way to many I had to mulligan and I did keep a soso 2 land hand It was just my luck I didnt have any problems all day AND I also have said over and over 23 is the number no more no less .. with more lands you will have less powerful lackeys and ringleaders (mutavaults are not needed)

heres the list I played ..


Lands
5 Mountain (1)
4 Rishadan Port
4 [TE] Wasteland
3 [U] Taiga
4 [ON] Wooded Foothills
3 [ON] Bloodstained Mire

Creatures
4 [EVG] Gempalm Incinerator
4 [US] Goblin Lackey
4 [EVG] Goblin Matron
4 [ON] Goblin Piledriver
4 [EVG] Goblin Ringleader
4 [EVG] Goblin Warchief
4 [EVG] Mogg Fanatic
2 [EVG] Siege-Gang Commander
1 [ON] Goblin Sharpshooter
2 [GP] Tin Street Hooligan

Spells
4 [DS] Æther Vial

Sideboard
SB: 4 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 4 [AL] Pyrokinesis
SB: 4 [SC] Pyrostatic Pillar

I would not change a thing

congrats on the top 8 deathdealer, you deserve it. definately the best goblin player i've seen. :wink: