I'd never play combo decks in such a meta, so I see no point. CB thresh is more like 40-60 or 45-55 if they don't MD Balance. Seems not that bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benie Bederios
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I'd never play combo decks in such a meta, so I see no point. CB thresh is more like 40-60 or 45-55 if they don't MD Balance. Seems not that bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benie Bederios
I know that Bound // Determined and Abeyance have been discussed before but...in a Threshold / Counterbalance filled environment...wouldn't either of these make that matchup slightly more winnable? Determined would prevent the rest of your spells from being hit by counterbalance because it prevents abilites as well. However...Abeyance is not a dead card mid-combo because it cantrips. I think that we should bring these cards back up into discussion.
In order to do so, it first has to pass CB itself. And since CB is most often set @CC1 and CC2, it will probably be affected, too, and thus not be able to protect the rest of your spells.Quote:
Originally Posted by ImAChampion
Looking on GerMagic, I found these two new lists:
3 Brain Freeze
4 Brainstorm
3 Cunning Wish
4 Force of Will
4 High Tide
4 Impulse
4 Meditate
2 Opt
3 Remand
4 Reset
2 Stroke of Genius
2 Think Twice
3 Turnabout
land [18]
3 Flooded Strand
10 Island
3 Polluted Delta
2 Volcanic Island
Sideboard:
4 Disrupt
1 Echoing Truth
1 Rebuild
1 Starstorm
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Sudden Shock
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Turnabout
2 Twincast
1 Urza's Rage
1 Wipe Away
2 Brain Freeze
4 Brainstorm
3 Cunning Wish
2 Flash of Insight
4 Force of Will
4 High Tide
4 Impulse
3 Meditate
3 Opt
2 Peek
4 Remand
4 Reset
1 Stroke of Genius
3 Turnabout
4 Flooded Strand
10 Island
4 Polluted Delta
Sideboard:
4 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Brain Freeze
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Meditate
1 Rebuild
1 Rushing River
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Trickbind
1 Turnabout
1 Words of Wisdom
Does anyone have an idea what those Strokes of Genius might be for? I could see them working as simple draw spells that can function as a kill as well, but I doubt it would be any better than Meditate or Thirst for Knowledge.
Well we all know the function of having 1 Stroke in the Sideboard. I guess they serve the same function main: like you said, drawing massive amounts of cards or killing your opponent with lethal damage on the stack.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahamuth
The only questions are:
a) Why play multiples?
b) Why play them main?
The answer to b might be that you become less dependent on Cunning Wish. You can reserve them for getting SB solutions vs hate and you can bait counters if you play your kill options main.
If this is correct, then you can also answer a. Playing multiples helps to actually get them when you need them via normal cantripping/drawing.
In the first list that you posted, however, I personally don't like the 3 Brain Freeze main, which together with the 2 Strokes take a lot of space. Since it's the red version (incl. Think Twice), I guess the player expected lots of Thresh in his meta. Maybe he thought "How would I side vs Thresh?" and decided to play the answer-list main.
The second list only contains 1 Stroke main together wih 2 Brain Freeze, which looks quite reasonable. I don't like some of the SB choices (H's Recall, WoW), but that's a different story.
Stroke might function as a carddrawer in mid-combo, and it might function as a kill, but I seriously doubt that is enough reason to maindeck them. The card only produces cardadvantage at 5- or more mana, which way too much. Therefore the card is dead in the turns before the combo, which makes it, in my opinion, pretty crappy...Quote:
Originally Posted by Taurelin07
I really haven't read much of what has been going on, but since you had considered Hunting Pack that costs GG, why not just run Tendrils of Agony?
Hunting Pack can be run as a one of in the sideboard for wishing. Tendrils doesn't work with Reset.
I saw the guy playing the first list posted, he eventually won the tournament (38 people, he was the only solidarity player).
I personally saw him win vs a white threshold having counterbalance in play + 2 force + 1 daze in hand (in play also 1 tarmagoyf).
He managed to play around balance, freezeing in response, meditating, ecc... because there was low board pressure. In fact tarmagoyf is very weak (solidarity has only lands and isntant, so tarmagoyf is often only 2/3 ....).
The metagame is slowing a bit (as a response to beat balance-threshold), so that's why he put 2 think twice (which I like, you have many turn 2 options: remand/think twice... impulse on turn 2 is not very strong play because you will very seldomly win with only 3 lands in play)
So I don't like 3 remand. I want 4.
I don't like 3 freeze. 2 is ok, I never won a game with 2 mini-storm, it's very hard because in the storming process you lose turns by meditating, and you don't have time to recover... The deck wins on big turn 98% of the times.
I don't like more than 1 stroke in maindeck, as other said, it's a dead card until the start of combo.
As regards sideboard, there is a *third* (useless) combo finish. Twincast + urza rage kicked.
It's only a theretic "paranoia" of not being able to win with freeze or stroke.
Starstorm is interesting but risky.... it's a tempo card, but again, you waste resources to just reset the board. Goblin has red blast and the volcanic for red mana is secured by playing in response to wasteland (response take red mana, reset, etc.... so you have RR)
I just prefer to try to win instead of doing that
Red is a good splash by the way.
That's awesome. It definatrely proves Solidarity can beat anything if it's played well.Quote:
Originally Posted by slyfer
I also like 4 Remand, because of the many different uses the card has. Oftenly I find myself hesitant to use it pre-combo, since I know I'm going to need one to either fight trough counters or provide more Brain Freezes.
I think I'm going to try out a Stroke in the mainboard. Especially in a slow metagame I can see it working quite well as a setup card.
I also like the Think Twices. I think the fact that it costs 2 is actually an advantage in a Thresh-heavy meta, since it's less likely to be countered by CB.
I still don't see the use of the red splash right now. I'd rather just play momo-blue really, especially with all the Dragon Stompy around right now.
The deck can be played mono U, the red splash was historucally for meddling mage (grabbling sudden shock) but
1) meddling mage isn't played any more .... I mean, look at the latest threshold list... many just play red or black as third color so no mage, the others play mage in the side board, no more in maindeck.
2) wipe away, altough mana intensive, is THE bouncer.
Relying on some more cc2 cartrips benefits the "chalice @1" hooser, so that you just land, go, land go....until you wish for bounce and storm in response to his re-play of chalice at@1.
Resolving a High Tide with an active CB Top is a pain...what's the most effective way to fight this? Play drawgo til you get Wish and Wipe? Or go for the small Brain Freezes? If going for a small Brain Freeze, do you just fizzle(from CB Top) some spells and go then hit Freeze? Or do you use your Meditates, counterwar with them, Turnabouts to dodge CB(unless they have Fledgling or Enforcer), and just go that way?
I'm asking for the BEST way to fight Thresh assuming that they have CB and Top online.
if they have counterbalance + sensei top it's near to impossible, unless they reveal 3 land of the top...
If they have *only* counterbalance, you can try one spell and see what cc is over the top... so if they reveal cc1, you try to go with no problems. It's important to land drop consistently and keeping "gas" in hand. If you play 3 brain freeze it's better.
It also depends on how much clock you have....sometimes goyf, mental note, ponder is 3 turns clock :rolleyes:
The only solution we have at the moment is Wishing for a Wipe Away. Perhaps there are more options. I think Hunting Pack did pretty well there, because you barely have to play any spells.Quote:
Originally Posted by chokin
Who knows. There might be some crappy blue card around somewhere which is suited to fight CB, or perhaps one will be printed. At least I keep hoping....
Repeal is the best maindeckable answer to a resolved Counterbalance that I can think of.
The ways to counter balance i can think of are:
1. Splash green, Reverent Silence/Krosian Grip it when they least expect and go off the following turn.
2. Splash red, grab a six REB side and pray to counter it before it lands.
3. Bounce it and combo off, problem with this is you are probably either wipe awaying eating 3 of your mana or repealing for 3/4 mana. Which in turn, eats away at your mana to be casting a 3cc before combo so if they have any sort of counterspell afterwards you might be done for.
4. Trickbind his top activation and, hope for a land on top/try and play around what shows up.
5. Ramp 4 land (2 trops) and drop Arboria and win the ensuing counter war to laugh as thresh has no answers because who expects enchantments in solidarity!
Edit: Counter balance, what a pun!
Haha, Arboria is awesome. It's quite a good card as well by the way.
It's really a shame Reverent Silence is a sorcery, otherwise it would've been a really fine solution.
Wizard should print some cards like:
Free-bouncer, instant
3U
return target non land permanent to his owner hand
you can remove a blue card from you hand instead of playing free-bouncer mana cost
By the way if you are under meddling mage, counterbalance + top , there is nothing to do imho
At that point...its time to shit or get off the pot. If you allow them to get all that down...then you have lost the game anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by slyfer
I have a question... why dont people run 1 cunning wish in the board? If you wish for a cunning wish you can just wish for 1 after another and build up storm because wish removes itself after it is played so you can wish for the first with the second, rinse and repeat (yes i just used the word wish 5 times). This would be great if you have lots of mana and not to much draw. Thoughts?