What purpose does the mikokoro serve? Unless I'm understanding wrong, it's a dead land when spirit is out?
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What purpose does the mikokoro serve? Unless I'm understanding wrong, it's a dead land when spirit is out?
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the trick is to activate it on your opponent's turn. SotL will keep them from drawing a card, but since you haven't drawn that turn, you get a free card!Quote:
Originally Posted by rjm342
Ah gotcha.
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So I split the finals in a couple of 8 man Win a boxes. Lol, unfortunately one was Theros and the other Born of the Gods. Did open a couple of Kioras though so that's not to bad.
And I won 2 crucial games and they were related to Massacre. In one game, I Vindicated my opponent's only Swamp. The next turn he draws Massacre but can't cast it because he doesn't have 4 mana or any swamps. And in another game I purposely didn't fetch a scrubland, using my Chrome Mox (imprint Vindicate) to make any white I need. Again my opponent has Massacre but has to reach 4 mana to cast it but can't since I have Thalia and wastelands.
LOL, so maybe Isolated Chapel has some uses. Too bad they didn't make opposing color lands that are like Seachrome Coast or Darkslick Shores.
Wilkin is the dead guy master!Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilkin
Wilkin can you post your most recent list? Haven't seen what you are playing lately and would love to see what things you running with these days.
So I've found out that Chrome Mox is a terrible card, it only took one little tourny of playing for me to realize this. So I've already replaced it with things that actually do stuff, I do love the idea of turn 1 Bobs or Hymns but there is just too much cheap removal/counters that make those plays really bad. I've also moved my Tidehollow Scullers to the board, the card has just been the absolute definition of mediocre. Maybe if I played with Vial's I'd like him more, but until I try that I'm benching him. I've added a Sorin, a Jitte, and another Lingering Souls because I wanted more cards that are either complete gas or do more on the board.
The last issue I'm having trouble with is my sideboard graveyard hate. Right now I'm on 3 Rest in Peace and an Enlightened Tutor, but I'm not sure that's correct with me running Deathrite's, Lingering Souls and Cabal Therapies. I don't want to run Leyline of the Void since that doesn't seem good against Gofy/Geese/Shaman decks like Rest in Peace is. I doubt there is an alternative to Rest in Peace that does as much as it does, so what do you guys think the correct sideboard graveyard hate is?
I run 3x Surgical Extraction and a nihil spellbomb, surgical has play against combo as well.
I decided to try a different take on Deadguy
An engine the from the past
4 wasteland
4 scrubland
4 marshflats
1 plains
3 swamps
2 verdant catacombs
1 godless shrine
2 flooded strand
1 volrath's stronghold
1 maze of ith
1 tomb of yawgmoth
4 weathered wayfarer
4 dark confidant
3 spirit of the labyrinth
2 stoneforge mystics
2 phyrexian obliterator
3 gatekeeper of malakir
3 liliana of the veil
3 inquisition of kozolic
1 duress
4 mox diamond
1 sword of fire and ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 sensei's divining top
I'm gonna run this list tomorrow, i'm curious if anybody has any experience with Weathered Wayfarer and any ideas on where this type of build can go? I'm up for any suggestions and swaps. Thanks for your help, this forum is the best Legacy knowledge pool out there :)
Weathered Wayfarer is card I have looked at for long time. The card pretty much require the deck build arround it and its quite hard to do so as well.. And its alot stronger on the draw then its on then on the play.
BUt havent played it with Deathrite Shaman. Weathered Wayfarer does require quite alot of sac lands in form of fetch, wastelands, horizon canopy's and even cycling land has its use. If wanting to use his ability often the curve on the deck need to be quite low.
It's pretty much the same list from GP Washington. -1 Hero +1 Gatekeeper of Malakir. It should be on this thread and on the tournament report portion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zllig
Chrome Mox is an acquired taste. lol. I still like it. I like having Mox and Deathrite for acceleration.
For my GY I run 2 surgical Extraction and 2 Rest in Peace. If it's stuff like Goyf and Mongoose you are worried about, you could run Relic of Progenitus instead of a RIP.
So I finally got to use Toxic Deluge. It was awesome. I had a Deathrite, Mystic and Batterskull out. My opponent has a True Name Nemesis, 2 Faerie Tokens and a Delver (unflipped of course). Toxic for 1. A 1 sided plague wind for 1 life and 3 mana. And LOL, life loss didn't matter since Batterskull gained me 3 life.
Wayfarer build is interesting.
Hmm....from old blue/white vial tempo decks they also ran Jotun Grunt. Pretty good chemistry with wayfarer. Tutor for wasteland. Use it. Grunt puts it on bottom so you can tutor for it again. Plus, even if your opponent wastes your 1 of your one of utility lands, you have the chance to get it back with Grunt/wayfarer.
I agree. To add to that, Weathered Wayfarer also works much better in decks that run Aether Vial as a non-land de-facto mana source.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizso
I've been playin around with this deck for a while, playing with friends and in Cockatrice since I don't own all the cards yet, but I'm far in enough that friends can lend me most of it, so I'm taking it to GP Buenos Aires's Legacy side event. It's going to be my first legacy tournament and from what I've heard I should expect a combo heavy meta. For reference, this is the top 8 from the last big legacy tournament we had here.
This is the list I plan to take:
I'm not sure if I should be playing Hymns instead of Cabals. I switched because the 2 drop slot was already pretty crowded and as a bonus it also made it easier to the mana base. Maybe it's because I don't know the format as much, but not hitting with cabal is pretty bad vs getting 2 cards with Hymn.Quote:
4 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Scrubland
1 Godless Shrine
1 Overgrown Tomb
2 Isolated Chapel
2 Swamp
2 Plains
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Lingering Souls
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Vindicate
4 Thoughtseize
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
SB: 2 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 Engineered Plague
SB: 1 Duress
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 Humility
SB: 1 Lingering Souls
SB: 2 Disenchant
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
Since I'm running 2 Humilities in the side, I feel like I should be playing some amount of Zealous Persecutions that could also come in against Elves, but I'm not sure what I should cut for them. What do you guys recommend?
I guess I'm mostly looking for some comments on my list in particular, and any recommendations for my first legacy event. Any comments are more than welcomed, thanks!
Therapies are usually better in a combo meta, whereas Hymn is better in a fair deck meta.Quote:
Originally Posted by Collman
You can probably take out a Disenchant or 2 for the Zealous Persecutions. Also, if you can find another Scrubland or 2 maindeck. Toxic Deluge is another card I'd try and fit in somewhere in the sideboard.
Here is the list that won a 48 people tour here in Stockholm, played by Johan Backfjärd.
And Cody Lingelbach just got top8 at the latest SCG Open, here is the link to his deck, http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=64862Quote:
CREATURES (11)
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
SORCERIES (15)
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Lingering Souls
2 Vindicate
INSTANTS (5)
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Abrupt Decay
PLANESWALKERS (4)
4 Liliana of the Veil
ARTIFACTS (2)
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Batterskull
LANDS (23)
4 Wasteland
3 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Karakas
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bayou
4 Scrubland
4 Marsh Flats
1 Windswept Heath
SIDEBOARD (15)
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Disfigure
2 Duress
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Pithing Needle
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 Rest in Peace
2 Engineered Plague
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
Great to see the deck put up good results!
Came here to say this! Really glad that this list can put up results in the circuit. Goes to show that there's fight in this deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dosferra
I do have a few thoughts about this deck though:
- The 4-of souls is interesting, since the meta would have been expected to have a strong TNN presence, many decks will board hate for x/1 creatures, and that has an adverse effect on souls. I'd be hard pressed to play 4 as well but I guess it can work since you have 3 equip + 1 from the side so you'll almost always have a body to equip to.
- No hymn to tourarchs, and subsequently no chrome moxen in the 75. I guess he was going for the less explosive build which is understandable since it leads to a higher quality of cards later in the game (no mox draws, feels bad man). He also runs 4 lilianas and I would love to run 4, just so you can have that 3 mana edict when you need to.
- No strong clock to close the match via Hero of Bladehold or Mirran Crusader: I think even having one of would be good (esp. Hero) since it can break stalemates quickly in fair match ups and close out games in a war of attrition.
I do however really like the one of sculler with tutor in the board, so that you can get him against combo T2 (if you play etutor T1) so you can pick apart their combo while having a clock. I run a list with souls and hero and I am strongly considering playing zealous persecution main just for the huge blowouts. swinging for 8 in the air or a hero attacking for 8 can really catch people offguard :P
While souls doesn't excel vs some of the TNN hate, a lot of match ups these days are about grinding a win through an attrition war, and souls is quite solid in that rule. Along with it flying over the clogged ground stall
Yeah, it's great when you see players having to trade one card for 1/4 of a card :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
I also want to ask, has there ever been a list that has rishadan port? I know if that would be included it would be close to d&t's list, but what if we only had those + chrome mox to eccelerate ourselves? Something like T1 swamp --> mox into bob/hymn, and then T2 we can play port into drs/discard. and then tap their land. It probably sounds too cute and our list would have to be adjusted but I'm just trying to get the ball rolling for discussion. I think it might work if it was in the vial deadguy list so that we can keep pressure while porting them down.
I am pretty sure a few pages before this there was a discussion about the vial version and even a list including ports.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeph
I personally never was a fan of Vial, but I could see it being sweet here. Though DRS and Vial in the same deck seems somewhat redundant
This is true. Richard Cheese is playing a bw vial deck and it's doing well and without DRS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
While the Vial version obviously plays more creatures than traditional Deadguy, I feel it's hard to find a spot for Deathrite. Plus, having Revoker naming Deathrite to further manascrew your opponent on top of wastelands and ports is awesome.
Even in an anti-TNN sideboard meta, Lingering Souls is still an awesome card. It's like 2 cards in 1 and multiple flying threats.
Nice to see a Deadguy deck make top 8 in a SCG. Hoping to do the same in Detroit. Interesting build with the E.tutors and the many many hate bears.
What is your build looking like?
Note that I don't play DRS in my build (at least not currently). My build is also closer to D&T than traditional Deadguy. Vial is pretty important since half your manabase is just being used to screw with the opponent's manabase.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilkin
Oh for sure. From what I remember of your list, it's basically a black splash for Bob and Thoughtseize right? I like BW Vial over traditional Death and Taxes because you have a proactive option turn 1 and a card advantage engine that white doesn't have. And yeah, While Deathrite is an insane card, it doesn't fit in a Vial deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Cheese
Megadeus, I assume you mean Richard's Decklist. I'm sure it's still on this thread. I like the list and would totally suggest it as a starting point for a BW vial deck.
LOL, speaking of decklists I've had a couple of people in my area wanting to see my decklist as they want to try Deadguy out. I laugh and say, "sure but it plays a lot of cards that most people don't". That and I don't play many 4 of's. Mostly 3's. Only playsets I play are Dark Confidant, Scrubland, Marsh Flats and Swords to Plowshares.
Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Large Man
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Lingering Souls
1 Umezawas Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
3 Thoughtseize
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Marsh Flats
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Scrubland
1 Bayou
2 Swamp
2 Plains
4 Wasteland
2 Isolated Chapel
SB
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Engineered Plague
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Choke
2 Disenchant
1 Thoughtseize
1 Rest in Peace
his is the list that I have come up with so far. I'm not sure what fatty to run, if I even need one at all, and my thoughts have been between: Tombstalker, Brimalz, Mirran Crusader, and maybe Desecration Demon. Also have thought about dropping a souls and something else for a couple of Tops just because the deck may need a bit of library manipulation
With only one green source of mana, I don't think that's enough to support 2 Abrupt Decay. You do run Deathrite Shamans of course, but you can't always rely on them living. And you can afford to run a Karakas.
What is your meta like? I would personally run more GY hate, but that's just personal preference. Out of the big fatties you listed I'd say Brimaz. Crusader is cool and all but IMO much better in a death and taxes build where Mom can protect him. I tried Mirran Crusader and it was kind of meh, it seemed to eat Lightning Bolt a lot. Never tried Desecration Demon. 4 drop I would either go Hero of Bladehold or Elspeth, Knight-Errant.
Actually with all of the lands and dredge in my metai could use more GY hate. Which would be best though? RIP or Leyline? I have ETutor so RIP feels right, but opening on leyline feels good. And yeah brimaz does seem pretty solid, but elspeth may be best. Maybe drop decay for like a main board disenchant and like a vindicate? Or maybe a top and a vindicate?
I use 2 RIP and 2 Surgical in board. So i have a GY wipe at 2 mana and a free spell for unfair turn 1 shenanigans. I prefer RIP over Leyline. But I don't play E. tutor so you can probably cut to one RIP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
With Brimaz vs Elspeth....it depends. Brimaz is quicker to cast but Elspeth is better in the grindy matchups and is way better vs a deck like Miracles, which seems to be gaining in popularity. Disenchant is ok but I like Vindicate so much. It's a 3 mana catch all spell.....and hey if they don't have anything really good to hit....take out a land. A top is fine too if you want to go that route.
How much show and tell is around where you are? If there is I'd suggest Oblivion Rings instead of Disenchant.
On the subject of Leyline of the Void versus Rest in Peace...
Rest in Peace is better against Dredge I think. You can blow them out if they go nuts and dredge half their deck without flashing back Dread Return and killing you. If they dump half their deck and then you exile it with RiP you should win. With Leyline they keep their existing graveyard, so if the Claim/Chain your Leyline you may just die. In general I prefer Rest in Peace because I think the ability to exile all existing graveyards (giving it immediate impact) is the big deciding factor.
Leyline of the Void is also bad if you can't turn 0 it. The decks you bring it in against (reanimtor, dredge, maybe TES depending on your MD), slamming it on turn 3 with Deathrite will often not be good enough. God forbid you just tap 4 lands and cast it.
SnT isnt usually too prevalent, though I could see it as a singleton ORing in the board for ETutor. I agree with you on all counts with Brimaz and Elspeth. I was never a huge fan of Surgical in non Snapcaster decks, but a combo of both those and RIP do seem good. Like I said, in my meta it is a lot of loam decks rather than dredge. I just figured that Leyline may be better in those MU's because it can't be decay'd.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilkin
I generally prefer Extirpate in non-blue decks... If you have to push through your hate to win... Extirpate is what you want.
Obviously Surgical is factor and has the "Ooops you lose" factor to it... You are still open to just losing to Force/Spell pierce/w.e.
Basically... If I am playing a non blue deck, something you can't protect Surgical with Force/Daze/Pierce... I prefer Extirpate. Yes, it's one more mana... but it pretty close to guarantees you from losing... Dependent on the match up of course.
In a B/W(g) deck I would for sure play Extirpate over Surgical Extraction... Even though both have their benefits.
Extirpate actually seems solid vs Loam decks since they can't cycle in response to save loam.
Well if Loam decks are in your meta, than yeah Extirpate is better. A good loam player will always seem to have a mana open for a cycling land. I prefer the Surgical because it's free and is castable on their turn 1. Faced plenty of Reanimator and Tin Fins....
Just a preference. Like my Shriekmaws. lol. Why just yesterday I killed an Emrakul off a show and tell. The funny part was I knew he had the Show and Tell and Emrakul in hand when I surgical extracted his Brainstorm. So I had to really try and sell being sad. :D
Shriekmaw actually seems pretty sweet. Late game you get to just kill off like a Goyf then use Fear to walk past TNNs and such. Seems sweet.
Hey guys, just wanted to get a critique on the deck I just put together. I'm trying it without Wastelands, but I'm not sure if they're needed. If I were to use them, I'd probably want to use 2x Loam as well. But I don't feel like that's the theme of the deck. 1/1 Fliers, pump with the sword/jitte/elspeth, and widdle down their hand. I still have Vindicate for Land if the opportunity presents itself, but it wouldnt be my main focus. I kind of feel like splitting HD and LD is a bit ambitious for this kind of deck. But yea, discarding their cheap spells and wasting them to keep them off mana for their expensive spells is effective too. Perhaps 2 Wastes? This is very similar to MBSegal's posted list a few pages back.
Artifact (3)
1xBatterskull
1xSword of Fire and Ice
1xUmezawa's Jitte
Creature (15)
3xDark Confidant
4xDeathrite Shaman
2xGatekeeper of Malakir
4xStoneforge Mystic
2xTidehollow Sculler
Enchantment (2)
1xSylvan Library
1xBitterblossom
Instant (8)
3xAbrupt Decay
4xSwords to Plowshares
1xZealous Persecution
Planeswalker (4)
1xElspeth, Knight-Errant
3xLiliana of the Veil
Sorcery (11)
3xInquisition of Kozilek
3xLingering Souls
3xThoughtseize
2xVindicate
Land (18)
2xBayou
2xIsolated Chapel
4xMarsh Flats
1xPlains
2xPolluted Delta
4xScrubland
3xSwamp
SIDEBOARD
Creature (8)
2xPhyrexian Revoker
2xEthersworn Canonist
2xQasali Pridemage
2xLifebane Zombie
Enchantment (4)
1xChains of Mephistopheles
2xHumility
1x Rest in Piece
Instant (3)
2xSurgical Extraction
1xZealous Persecution
Played this list tonight at the local and went 2-1-1 and won in top 8
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Restoration Angel
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Lingering Souls
1 Umezawas Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
4 Thoughtseize
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Vindicate
4 Marsh Flats
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
4 Scrubland
1 Bayou
2 Swamp
2 Plains
4 Wasteland
1 Cave of Koilos (couldnt find a chapel in time, though I didnt hate the cave)
SB
1 Zealous Persecution
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Engineered Plague
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Choke
1 Rest in Peace
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Krosan Grip
1 Perish
Deck is a blast. I never got to cast Angel unfortunately :/ I dont think I need the second basic plains. Probably will become another dual of some sort. 2 Hymn was also meh. May change them for something, though not sure what. 4 Waste was awesome. I wouldnt leave home without them. Vindicate was Decay, but last minute I switched it up. It was a fine card all night, though 2 may be too many. Zealous and Orzhov Pontiff were both awesome. I dont think I want more than 1 ETutor. Card seems bad. May make the second ETutor into another Revoker or something. Might also drop a Resto Angel for Sorin/Elspeth.
Late Edit:
What is our best way to fight the lands/loam Marit Lage decks? Just have souls to chump him and hope the rest of our men can get there? Or hope on board open Wasteland is good enough? That is the one deck I lost to, the "farmville" Bant Lands deck that T16'd the GP Paris.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
Awesome results.
Regarding lands loam:
Rest in Peace! Mull agressively for that. Even if they pack an answer to it, it will stall them long enough for you to get an advantage (or a second Rest in Peace). If they run the Punishing Fire engine (which they probably do) taking out a burnwillow grove is only a solution at early stages of the game. one they are mana fed just don´t bother wasting them unless your RIP is on the field. Also, Deathrite Shaman can eat Life from the Loam and Punishing Fire. If no Punishing Fire involved, Shaman will force him to make sub par plays to avoid his LftL being exiled. In other words: He most likely doesn´t want his LftL in his GY during your turn. If facing Punishing Fire, just stack up your threats for a bit and make him either decide which threat to take out or to empty his whole mana to cleansen the board. Lingering Souls works wonders pressure-wise.
Against Marit Lage you from time to time simply have bad luck. Dark Depths + Urborg + Hexmage = Turn 2 Marit Lage. To prevent that, Revoker on Hexmage, Needle on Thespian Stage and a RIP on the field will block him out. Remember, Shaman again can eat away Stages and Dark Depths. Your Wasteland gets really Strong here in conjunction.
True. Maybe instead of Revoker I will go -1 ETutor +1 RIP.
I had a question. How is 4 lingering souls treating you? I myself am considering running this deck in the near future, but I am debating about running that many lingering souls with deathrite shaman everywhere. I was thinking about running 3 or 2, and try something else instead, like Brimaz for instance (not sold on him, but i'm willing to test him out). If you want, my question is, did 4 copies of lingering souls feel like it was too much?Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
Also, Congrats for the good result!!
My meta is pretty slow right now, not much fast combo outside of a dredge deck or two, so I can get away with running more higher casting things. But lets just say I never felt like I wanted less lingering souls last night. Having a few more high drops than average did get me to a low life total a few times with Bob though.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThediscoPower