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HOW DARE YOU QUESTION MY DECISION MAKING SKILLS! FIGHT ME IRL, NERD.Quote:
Originally Posted by rubblekill
Ya, courser is definitely the weakest card in the 60 imho. Adding another pulse made me feel like I was overboarding with removal since I have 4 decay, 3 path, 3 deed, 1 vindicate with a deluge in the board. Maybe its better as a pulse.
Ajani Steadfast actually sounds pretty potent in Nic Fit. Has anyone tried it?Quote:
Originally Posted by MD.Ghost
I would much rather pay the extra G for mentor of heros or change the white to green for garruk. Steadfast REQUIRES a non-SS creature down or a bevy of pw/creatures to get value. Jamming 4 cmc pw in hopes we forcefield ult him isn't my idea of groundbreaking, matchup changing tech. lifelink is good but our life total is not nearly under duress enough to constitute him and even then sorin, SV is just better.Quote:
Originally Posted by TLK
Playing a PW has to do something when it comes down and will always be compared to playing anything else because our cards need to be pound for pound the best. We can play more expensive cards because we have ramp BUT that doesn't mean we can shuffle every BGW pw into a pile and pull out random ones to shove in open slots.
If any thread is as open to suggestions as ours, I doubt it exists on the source but I do not think the old pw's need to be relooked at for playability. Jund wont play tibalt and Ajani goldmane wont be in junk.
Ricardio, why do you not play Dryad Arbor in your list on the previous page?
:eek:
I've never been a fan. I don't feel it is worth the slot. pseudo into play tapped land that dies to removal. I've never wanted it in a match and I don't like its interaction with deed. The argument can be made for it in a 4 gsz but I feel tossing a gsz back into the deck for a DA is not worth it. yes, its shuffled back in, but now you have to draw another gsz to toolbox. GSZ are a precious resource and I do not feel comfortable swapping it for a lackluster land.Quote:
Originally Posted by TTX
Dryad Arbor is bad in most Nic Fits, unless you're doing something very specific with it like Natural Order. It dies to Deed and you'd rather hold a Zenith for a turn to grab an Explorer or DRS anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by TTX
also pod lists but those aren't really a thing atm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
Hi all,
Popping over from the Delver world just to try something new and spicy at my weeklies. What does a "stock" BUG Nic Fit list look like currently? That 4 color list with DEN looks hilarious
I dont think Nic fit and stock have ever been a thing. Bug doesnt really have set list as it has a few different ways of building it. I have always built it to be a low threat high card advantage deck that has high impact cards and the ability to grind out the game with a combo of planeswalkers and value creatures.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaytron
Would you mind sharing your list?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom4ik
I saw the Notion Thief list on the front page, and I really just want to Notion Thief a Brainstorm at some time in my magic career.
Ralf has a handful of lists in his signature. you may have to look back a page or two but he has good starting points for you. The ultimate fit list might be where you wanna look haha
Thiefing a Jace is the best. It is literally all the value. I posted a rough list some pages back but I ended up not playing it and on saturday just playing my bug midrange deck instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaytron
I am looking to brew with some bug lists one of these days. Maybe with this new wall. gsz bouncing all the bros and replaying strixes and witness is super sweet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
I rarely use GSZ to search up a first turn Dryad Arbor, but when I do, it usually works well for that turn 2 Courser or Painful Truths.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
I enjoy Arbor because it is great for surprise Liliana fodder off a fetchland (still catches many people off-guard), and it interacts with Meren
in a great way, coming back into play for free is pretty nice, plus I can turn a fetchland into a Cabal Therapy flashback if I really need to (against Storm or Show and Tell match ups)
If I'm in a match up where Pernicious Deed is a must, then I usually don't get Dryad Arbor, or simply
use it as a chump if available.
Im not saying it is bad and neither is Arianr, we just don't like it and so we don't play it. I am sure it is good in builds that accommodate it.Quote:
Originally Posted by TTX
Did Jaytron find a list?
I mean, I think it's kind of bad. But, I'm also probably one of the chillest people in here. If you run Arbor and it does work for you, then hey, that's worth more than me voicing my opinion. Like, you noted about Liliana. If your metagame has a ton of Liliana, then I can see using Arbor as a protection method against her. But it takes some extraneous metaforce to justify Arbor, IMO, or else a unique deck construction (ie Natural Order).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
Not quite yet, do you have one to share? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
All of this. I loved arbor this weekend.Quote:
Originally Posted by TTX
As mentioned, stock don't exist in here. But if i where to start testing a list right now:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaytron
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Baleful Strix
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Eternal Witness
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Thragtusk
1 Fierce Empath
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Deadeye Navigator
2 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
1 Painful Truths
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
3 Underground Sea
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Island
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Phyrexian Tower
SB: 4 Force of Will
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Notion Thief
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Glen Elendra Archmage
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
Ajani Steadfast is pretty lackluster. For 4 mana you can get either Elspeth, Knight-Errant or Sorin, Lord of Innistrad. They both produce tokens, meaning you can win from an empty field (where Ajani doesn't enable you to do so). Elspeth has pretty much the same + ability as Ajani, but better (+3/+3 vs. +1/+1) and at least she can build her own pumpable platforms and Sorin has an ultimate I find more useful.Quote:
Originally Posted by TLK
For 5 mana, as Ricardio mentioned, there's Ajani, Mentor of Heroes. He finds you creatures, pumps them up permanently (and again +3/+3 vs. +1/+1) and his ultimate is just silly.
@Arianrhod/on Recurring Nightmare: I don't like that it needs a critter on the board to be able to do its thing. Meren on an otherwise empty board and with an empty graveyard still would be able to win you the game. About Meren & Nightmare playing together nicely. Yes they do, but how big are the odds of that ever happening? It isn't something you should bank on. Nightmare also plays very well with Dryad Arbor, perhaps even better than Meren does. When it comes to inevitability - that's something both Nightmare and Meren provide. Yes, Meren might die, but Nightmare could be hit by AD/Reclamation Sage/Qasali Pridemage. In either case you probably still have Eternal Witness in your deck to get either one of them back. Eternal Witness is also a much more reliable way to get Meren back than Nightmare as you can GSZ for it (making it a 5-off in your deck at any given time as opposed to the 1-off Nightmare) and again it doesn't need another creature on the board to actually make it happen.
I agree Nightmare can do incredibly broken things, but I don't like that it comes with quite some strings attached when compared to other cards in the deck. But that's just my opinion :smile:.
Glissa is for...combat against Eldrazis? Is this choice too narrow(die to almost every known removal)?
Does Wiltleaf liege worth consideration? Target reality smasher with removal, discard liege to battlefield, pump rhinos to 6/7.
Pretty much. She's capable of stealing G1 pretty much on her own. Also, any opponent that whiffs on spotremoval has a horrible time in combat as long as she's there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokugawa
Besides, vs. the decks that can easily kill her you don't really need her so you don't mind her dying :smile:. In those cases she's a lightning rod that keeps your other stuff alive (if your opponents take the bait). If they don't take the bait you still win every ground battle.
Thanks, this is a great starting place!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
How does Nic Fit in general do against Eldrazi? I feel like Nic Fit has bigger, better threats?
@Bobmans:
Nice Build! I would only change -1 Painful +1 Library, -1 Deed +1 Shriekmaw and Side -1 TS +1 Extraction since and maybe -1 Archmage/Thief and +1 Venser/Sower for a very versatile control deck. Overall well build BUG deck!
@Ultimate Fit:
Anyone tried From the Ashes? Should be a big surprise and improves stuff like Lands, 12Post, Eldrazi - as i remember, Nic Fit tends to have a hard time against the few decks that can play bigger dudes. etc.
Thnx. I was just about to get back on responding to Jaytron.Quote:
Originally Posted by MD.Ghost
Shriekmaw is a good meta call vs Eldrazi. I must "feel" how he plays out vs the rest of the field.
Personally i have a slight problem with Library dying to Deed >= 2. I am growing more and more into liking Painful Truths, but giving the grindy nature of BUG Sylvan Library is a good reasoning.
Sower might get a spot over Glen Elendra nr 2. TYVM for Reality Smasher or Emrakul.
So here goes:
Additional/maybeboard:
1-4 Deathrite Shaman
3-4 Green sun's Zenith
3-4 Brainstorm
1 Venser, shaper savant
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Glissa, the Traitor
1 Engineered Explosives
1-2 Trinket Mage (plus optional target's)
1 Aetherling
1 Sagu Mauler
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Primeval Titan
1 Recurring Nightmare (needs higher creautere density AND see discussion as above)
1 Volrath's Stronghold (coupled with Phyrexian Tower and perhaps PrimeTime)
1-3 Negate
1-2 Dimir Charm
1 Spiritmonger
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Reclamation Sage
1-3 Shriekmaw (Eldrazi)
1-3 Diabolic Edict (Marit Lage, Reanimator, SnS)
1-2 Diabolic Intent
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1-3 Memoricide // Cranial Extraction
1 Haunting Echoes
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
Garruk Relentless
Garruk, Primal Hunter
Vraska the Unseen
Ob Nixilis Reignited
Liliana of the Veil
Liliana Vess
Kiora, the Crashing Wave
Kiora, Master of the Depths
Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
Probably forgetting some other nice cards or good interactions, but this to underline the fact that stock does not exist. Also we never can agree to the perfect 75, although we do have a pleasent enviroment for discussing and trying stuff. Saying that a card don't work is ok, but at least say why you think a card doesn't work and accept that others will disagree.
There is always the danger of cute cards. Every card in NicFit has a purpose. Being that it either is a part of a solid interactions or being a part of hate vs a dominant strategy (like Glissa is vs Eldrazi). While typing this i am remembering a deck from years past that plays Survival of the Fittest, Goblin Welder and Intuition along with some huge artifact's. I suddenly see some shit with Glissa, Trinket Mage, Intuition, Academy Ruins and Life from the Loam popping up. Will come back to that later.
Eldrazi:
I always think of NicFit being a reflection of basic principles of military warfare. Pernicious Deed is a key factor here because it has the ability to reset the board in our advantage to playing against most other decks. This also reflects the principle i am about to explain (in short ofcourse).
Find - Fix - Strike - Exploit
Meaning:
Finding the enemy. This can also mean you just fire in order to draw fire that will reveal enemy location.
Fixing them to the place where they are.
Strike them by out maneouvring them using another element/unit.
Exploit possible weaknesses shown by intell gained from the strike and hold momentum.
How does this reflect to NicFit:
Find your way to gain advatantage in the early game. This often means the Veteran Explorer and Cabal Therapy interaction. Cabal Therapy reveal them by iether forcing them to respond OR you just poke them. I always call Thought-Knot Seer unless i know he has something else i want/need to hit. Finding the opponent's weakspot so you can plan some steps ahead to HOW you want to strike them.
Fix them on the battlefield, hold back their force in order not to get overwhelmed. While doing so your also working on expanding your manabase and ability to card advantage or selection (SDT). This to get your plan going.
Strike them when they are drained a bit and when the time is right. This using a Pernicious Deed to (mostly) clear the board and deploy your (bigger) creatures and create actuall advantage.
Exploit your advantage by taking out their attempts to get back, meaning also that you ignore minor attempts and recognise actuall treats. Hence, hold momentum.
So, Eldrazi is a strong force, but smart play pays of. Is a Chalice on 1 a problem? Are they holding a Dismember? Do i have to dodge Warping Wail? NicFit can present Eldrazi a wall and gain a lot of advantage, but you have to get there in the first place. Their early game is stronger. Every splash of NicFit has their tools to fight them, but i think i would like to arrange them from Junk > BUG > Jund. Eventually you want to draw them into the mid-/lategame. That is where we shine.
Then a couple of pointers towards the BUG list.
Balance between your cardadvantage spells. Depending on your Green creature count you want more or less GSZ. This also depends on Brainstorm. On the other hand, if you play Force of Will, then you should be able to get 20 blue card in total after boarding. So 3 Brainstorm is the bare minimum. The stronger blue creatures are non green AND CMC 6. So i wanted to include Empath as a way to find them. Tasigur is another nice engine them can be dropped to the BF via Empath (thru GSZ) for the cost of 5 mana. Also Empath into Deadeye into soulbound Empath gives the ability to get Tasigur and ConSphinx.
2 Jace and 3 Strix is an obvious choice. So is Thragtusk. This is the best card to support transition to the lategame. Next to this, Thragtusk has a very strong synergy with Deadeye and Jace. Scooze is mandatory and wins games VS graveyard strategy's, but also can steal games VS Elves or other creature heavy decks. Glen Elendra provides a unique way of keeping back an opponent. When this is on the BF you often lock-out an opponent. Between Meren, Clique, Nissa and the removal package i am not going in depth. Playtesting and tweaking will be your guide to what you think works or not.
Hope it helps.
Edit:
Eldrazi also tends to run 1-3 MD/SB Dismember, making Glissa a little less reliable. Good thing is that Eldrazi is not set and build still different. Dismember can be a problem to this tactic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
Oh my god, you wonderful crazy bastard. I thought I was the degenerate one, running Fierce Empath. I take my hat off to you, good sir!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
Concerning strategy in Nic Fit: In my head it usually boils down to Disrupt, Stabilize, Destroy. Or Steamroll. T1 Veteran Explorer into T2 Phyrexian Tower, go balls deep, drop a Rhino and pound ass like there's no tomorrow. Games that go like that are very rare but incredibly enjoyable. Sometimes it's good to live a little.
As for Glissa: First we have Cabal Therapy if we really need her that badly. Otherwise, sometimes shit just hits the fan. Unlike Hannibal would have us believe, the plan doesn't always come together.
The best success I had with a blue list was back when Dig was legal but I would still build it similarly. Just all the CA and eventually you to the point where you have cards and they dont. Basically Next level Shardless. I didnt run many creatures.
Typically it was smth like 4 vet, 3-4 strix, 3 snap and 2 Thragtusk. I ran 2-3 jace and 2 lily. I also ran md force but without dig in the format I wouldnt be as worried about running it in the main. Not running force means you could probably switch some of the creatures around and play gsz.
The upside to running fow and snapcaster is that as you keep making land drops you will eventually run any deck out of cards. Running a stronghold and a few thragtusks will be fine. I won plenty of games with 1 tusk and then jace bounce. Jace is also a great win con because you can sit behind strix and deed and snapping decay and not even worry about attacking. Junk decks with nightmare/rhino have some of that same feel but jace is still better than that.
Postboard bringing in TS, Negates and Surgical mean that you really shred the early hand and even a clock of 2-4 damage can be fine.
I have never been a fan of pod. I just think Jace is a better card so I would never run that version but creature heavy versions in blue do get much better combo cards like the deadeye or nightmare to break open games.
The easiest way to design the deck is to decide what type of game plan you are looking to play and then slot cards into it that fit into that style.
But why cast Nightmare if you can't use the ability immediately? AD/Sage/etc. won't get priority if you resolve and sac immediately, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
You have priority once it resolves, so as long as the sac outlet is on the battlefield, you are fine. Albeit, there are sticky situations where you have to play it a turn before you actually use it. then its called reoccurring yolo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hmmm_Really?
Also if you have a creature to sac and a Nightmare in hand and want to cast them both, you have to have one of them be vulnerable to removal (unless you have Dryad Arbor in hand). Can't keep them both safe.
Dragonlord Dromoka is never gonna give you up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Navsi
Looks like we will indeed be getting a new Sigarda. Pointing towards GW at a guess, maybe with some B in there.
Today's UR was cool. I only hope that Sigarda 2.0 will be green, for obvious reasons. Black seems the least plausible colour she could be, but we will see, hopefully soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Navsi
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubblekill
I am eagerly waiting, with my hand on my gentiles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Navsi
I demand from wotc a 5-6 mana lifelink and shroud flyer called Sigarda 2.0. I want to replace Dromoka so bad with a better green flyer with built in protection.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
It would be really awkward seeing Sigarda 1.0 and the hypothetical Sigarda 2.0 exist on the battlefield at the same time. #MirrorImageLesbianSex.Quote:
Originally Posted by rubblekill
Awkward? something might've gotten lost in translation because I think you meant entertaining or kinky.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
Lol, yeah, well... i just took the list for a spin. Outrageous. Grindy as fuck, but once you develop your board you got SOO much stuff going on and the amount of "things" your able to do it is hard to keep track of that. Other than that, it is Magical Christmas happening right there...Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lq9excooxb1qio1cr.gif
Just Meren alone is reason enough to run Arbor honestly. The interaction is fantastic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
Hexproof is what it lacks but I do find dromoka really really hard to be dealt with for numerous MU.Quote:
Originally Posted by rubblekill
For the other, Sigarda gets the job done.
Hey guys,
I'm looking to play Nic Fit this weekend at a local tournament and am looking for some sideboard advice. The meta will consist of mainly BUG variants, Miracles, RUG/UR builds, Lands, a few burn decks and undoubtedly a couple of the typical Dredge, Goblins, and Storm builds. I'm unsure if there will be any Eldrazi decks, but I'd hedge my bets and assume there will be a few.
I've been play testing Ricardo's mainboard list, but mostly want to tune the sideboard for this type of meta. I've always been a BUG player, but want to change things up and the thought of not having FoW/Daze kind of scares me, lol. Were there any changes you suggest to this list since it was posted? (Legacy League list).
Here's what I was initially thinking:
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Glissa, the Traitor
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Garruk Relentless
3 Slaughter Games
I was thinking on cutting the mainboard Courser and moving Glissa to the mainboard which could make room for a Reclamation Sage or Dragonlord Dromoka.
Thoughts?