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Well, the beauty of this is that Volcanic Offering only costs one red mana. It's easily splashable in the Godo stompy build. This is going to be red MUD and Dragon stompies sweeper of choice, and it might even bring back wildfire.dec.
Living the dream here:
T1: Ancient Tomb Chalice for one (no more spell pierce)
T2: Mountain, Seething song into Volcanic Offering
That is not even to far fetched, but what are we going to do on turn 3? Best case scenario you drop a Sol land or a normal land and then have some business. 4 mana and drop Andretti is solid, but i still see the possibility that the deck bricks a couple of turns before it is able to land a CMC 6 card.Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
Edit: i think that Wildfire would need a huge amount of dedicated cards to be able to revover from it faster then the opponent. It would require at least 3-4 Crucible of Worlds. Daretti helps in the sense it can swap Great Furnaces into bombs.
we'll its really kinda wasted if you are playing it t2 because its unlikely they dropped 2x creatures, and if you are on the play then its just wasteful.Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
Well, I'm pretty sure we need Trinisphere, Tangle Wire or both to further slow down opponents and prevent counters from happening. I think from that point on we need to be looking at cheap threats. Moltensteel Dragon, Lodestone Golem, Daretti, Scrap Savant are all 4-CC. Batterskull is on 5 and Godo can replace Wurmcoil Engine to make the Batterskulls better. Gathan Raiders is a 3 mana 5/5 that fuels Daretti.
What else do we have?
Commander 2014 opened up so much design space, my head is exploding
I get what you're saying and I agree. I'm imaging a scenario that opens with a turn 1 Deathrite Shaman. Being able to nuke 2 lands and a DRS (or against elves), might leave your opponent with no lands left and no cantrips to dig for them. If your opponent starts missing land drops, you pretty much sealed the game right there. It's cool as hell that we have the ability to blow opponents out like this. We already had turn 1 chalice in the arsenal, and dragon stompy even had turn 1 blood moon and trinisphere as well with Simian Spirit Guide. Those are incredibly strong game breakers on the winning dice roll.Quote:
Originally Posted by apple713
Pff, i can't even think straight....
First i guess is a solid manabase that can ramp and hold 6 mana with at least one red source by turn 3.
Obviously red has Simian Spirit Guide, Lotus Petal and Seething Song, but those are one shots.
Then we have Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond, but both are kinda card disadvantage.
Also there is Mox Opal, but this lacks speed.
Grim Monolith ramps, but requires to have a Daretti in play and another mana rock to circulate. On top of that, you need to spend turn using the + ability first.
Metalworker is kinda crap since the decks runs more non artifacts.
Also Thran Dynamo is a card, but 4 for mana for 3 mana makes you a turn slower.
As for lands, i am not sure about adding Cloudpost mana base to the list. On the other hand Turbo Eldrazi gets away with it. Even with 2 colors.
Then we would need both Mountain as Great Furnace. Wasteland would be a good addition to compliment Trinisphere and Tangle Wire along with Volcanis Offering.
Lodestone Golem might get in our own way, so i think that's a no go unless the manabase proves to be solid.
Also Rishadan Port might be a strong choice if we decide to keep attacking the opponents manabase.
Sandstone Needle has been a good card in the past, but tapped into play can be to slow as we have seen with cloupost mana.
Cavern of Souls would also be solid on naming Human (Godo, bandit warlord and Magus of the Moon).
This are just some random thoughts, getting nowhere so far..
EDIT: Will the opponent be able to target the same targets as you choose with Volcanic Offering??
Quote:
Originally Posted by apple713
WAIT.....
volcanic fallout............... just found out that they could just pick the same land and creature as you did... so its 5 mana kill a land and a creature.. moving on :rolleyes:
Such a missed chance. This had me so excited :/
Damn that was about to be my favourite new card :frown:
But well, 4R instant for 2 lands and 2 creatures maybe was a a bit too good tbh. #thedreamisdead
I guess i will just stick to the welder list with 3 Daretti for further testing.
So anybody any ideas for my list? 2 metalworkers should stay for mana fixing- they are better monoliths here. Maybe a other equipment? i kicked out sword of l and s because its kinda meh in comparison to fire and ice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Holland
Duratti is beautiful awesome. Play 4. I ordered 4 german since foils dont exist :)
My biggest concern is your 11-post mana base. Are you flooding out often with 24 lands or is it doable? Ideally, you want to run cavern of souls. Cavern of Souls on human resolves both Godo and Magus of the Moon. Cavern however, doesn't pay for Daretti's mana cost so you'd need even more mountains than you're already running unless you're going to run mana rocks that produce red.
Secondly, you can't really run Volcanic Fallout, Whipflare or Pyrokinesis in your build unfortunately, but I feel like you need something to thwart UR Delvers aggressive openings. How do you plan on winning that matchup, given the fact that they will likely open with a turn 1 Monastery Swiftspear or Delver of Secrets and run wastes (difficult with 11-post) and counters (difficult with daretti, batterskull, tangle wire, karn).
I think I'd going to run Sudden Shock and Volcanic Fallout specifically to remove the needle from UR delver decks.
Manabase is fine, just aint got no room for cavern since daretti is more important to play. I used to play cavern allways in mud but i dont think its really necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
I have not played delver yet but i dont really care about delver, tangle wire will stop them death in their tracks while i build up some mana. Also 3 hellkite is good against 3/2 flyers. whipflare can be run in the side, but in that case id rather run ratchet bomb. I do play 2 karn for those cards the deck cant handle.
I have played this against JUND, cloudpost-eldrazi and Death and taxes. Went suprisingly well! especially etched champion equiped with batterskull outraces opponents easy.
So, I'm not sure how this effects us yet, Aaron Forsythe announced at PAX Australia that Wizards of the Coast has found a solution to colorless basic lands. Since I don't have a direct source since video hasn't been posted yet, so the best I have is this link where Mark Rosewater answering a question regarding what will not be Barry's Land. I'm not sure what benefits or drawbacks that entails towards us other than MUD will finally have access to Wasteland proof lands... other than the five we already could use if we wanted. Biggest curiosity for me is if this is a gimmick for like a block promotion or even a future colorless commander deck, then what other support cards will be printed along side them to boost their usefulness outside of MUD-EDH.
Very interesting. I wonder how they'll make it useful since a basic mountain is also wasteland proof but provides a splash color.
Agreed, i doubt that there will be any impact on the existing manabase for either MUDPost or WelderMUD. Not even Darksteel Citadel has the impact, while it is both waste proof as it is an artifact.Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
I'd like to introduce my Metalworker replacement:
http://www.black-lotus.nl/mtg/lg/Ice...Lumberjack.jpg
Turn 1 Taiga, Orcish Lumberjack
Turn 2 Ancient Tomb, Godo Bandit Warlord or Wurmcoil Engine or anything else that's cheaper
Obviously, Crucible of Worlds plays an important role in this deck.
Turn 1 Taiga, Orcish Lumberjack
Turn 2 Sac Taiga, play Crucible of Worlds, play Taiga from Graveyard
RG let's you play cards like Ancient Grudge, Sylvan Library, Krosan Grip, Sudden Shock, Red Elemental Blast, Ruric Thar, Goblin Welder, Daretti, Garruk, etcetera.
Edit:
Also, turn 1 ancient tomb lightming greaves
Turn 2 taiga orcish lumberjack batterskull attack for 4
Interesting.. little bit dangerous. But why play him over metalworker? Thats the question.Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
You know, that's actually better than welder in Legacy i think ! Playing 6+ mana robots it's too inconsistent anyway, playing 4-5 mana bots seems better. Wasteland, p.fire, loam for recurring + putting bots in the yard etc ...Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
How does library + dredge interact anyway? Can u dredge a bonus draw and not pay life?
Library is only cheatable with 3 consecutive dredges. In that case you don't have to place any cards back nor pay life because you never drew cards in the first place (replacement effect). If you dredge once or twice you will have to pony up. Sylvan Library awesome though.
I think there's a consistent way to power out 3 4 5 and 6 drops with a good mix of Grim Monolith and Orcish Lumberjack. Both of these cards allow you to skip the early game, and advance straight to late game bombs, comparable to how Nic Fit's veteran explorer tries to skip the early game with Veteran Explorer and Cabal Therapy.
Orcish Lumberjack could be the mana dork for RG Mud (You don't even necessarily need to play with anything green, all you care about is red mana producing forests you can cut down!).
Turn 1 Taiga, Orcish Lumberjack
Turn 2 Ancient Tomb, Trinisphere, Cut down taiga, Crucible of Worlds
At this point, you're in great shape. You can keep black lotus'ing with Orcish Lumberjack, even if you don't draw any more lands, while your opponent must pay a hefty sum for his cheap / fair spells under trinisphere. You're basically 1 wasteland away from winning the game here. Monastery Swiftspear won't grow that big under Trinisphere, and that lone Turn 1 Delver of Secrets is gone after Punishing Fire / Sudden Shock resolves. UR Delver is actually much more winnable than RUG delver because Nimble Mongoose, Tarmogoyf, Spell Pierce and Wasteland were always the real threats, not Delver.
Orcish Lumberjack also nullifies Spell Pierce. It's a shame he's only a 1/1. I don't think I want to run Goblin Welder and Orcish Lumberjack together, because Forked Bolt then becomes a nightmare (If I can't find Chalice of the Void). Daretti is still worth playing though, since you accelerate into it, and use its loot into Life from the Loam's, Punishing Fire and artifacts that should be welded in.
I'm not quiet sure whether Life from the Loam or Crucible of Worlds is the better card here. Crucible eats Abrupt Decay and doesn't double as a graveyard filler. Life from the Loam folds to Deathrite Shaman... Then again, Deathrite Shaman eats the lands under Crucible of Worlds too, so it probably doesn't even matter much. Crucible of Worlds plays a little better with Orcish Lumberjack because you don't have to keep paying 1G to get your limited amount of Taigas back.
I'm thinking of the following mana base:
Lands
4 Taiga
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Wasteland
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
3 Cavern of Souls
Accelerants
3 Orcish Lumberjack
3 Grim Monolith
Supporting 3 Punishing Fire and 3 Crucible of Worlds 4 Chalice of the Void and 2 Sylvan Library
Still need to decide on the following:..
6 Mana bombs
Inferno Titan
Primeval Titan
Godo, Bandit Warlord
Wurmcoil Engine
Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
Steel Hellkite
?
5 Mana bombs
Batterskull
Garruk, Primal Hunter
Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
Stormbreath Dragon
Kuldotha Forgemaster
Thragtusk
?
4 Mana bombs
Spellbreaker Behemoth
Doretti, Scrap Savant
Garruk Relentless
Smokestack
Moltensteel Dragon
Flametongue Kavu
Lodestone Golem
Obstinate Baloth
Phyrexian Metamorph (actually 3)
?
3 Mana plays
Courser of Kruphix
Fire Imp
Firespout
Tangle Wire
Trinisphere
Hammer of Purphoros
Magus of the Moon
Blood Moon
Gathan Raiders
Sword of X and Y
Taurean Mauler
Words of War
Words of Wilding
*Words of War and Words of Wilding combo with Sylvan Library. Basically it reads, 3 mana: Deal 6 damage or create 3 2/2's.
*Gathan Raiders is an uncounterable threat that sets up a Daretti activation.
*Hammer of Purphoros transforms lands into artifacts that can be welded, and it provides a steady stream of threats/blockers with Crucible of Worlds. The haste is nice.
*Fire Imp, not better than Punishing Fire, but answers Delver of Secrets and blocks Monastery Swiftspear
*Magus of the Moon and Blood Moon don't look too good in this deck
2 Mana plays
Sylvan Library
Fauna Shaman
Lightning Greaves
Phyrexian Revoker
Sudden Shock
X Spells
Bonfire of the Damned
Postmortem Lunge