[Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

did anyone recieved already their chinese copy cards? hows the quality?

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Originally Posted by swoop

did anyone recieved already their chinese copy cards? hows the quality?

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sounds a Little like you thought it a good idea to create incentive, by sending them Money?

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Originally Posted by Serbitar

I think its pretty hilarious that Arid Mesa is worth more than Plateau.

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Fixed.

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Originally Posted by Occam

Doesn't affect most, but textless foil cradles are 10+k and foil cities are allegedly 15k. Getting stupid.

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Getting close to the cash out point? :p

Everytime I see a post in here i cringe in expectation of being floored by some insane price jump

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

Everytime I see a post in here i cringe in expectation of being floored by some insane price jump

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near mint wasteland on tcg player is $99.99

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Originally Posted by Lt. Quattro

near mint wasteland on tcg player is $99.99

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Still Glad I never traded my Wastes. Even if one is damaged.

sad thing is, my trade binder is out performing my 401k. Just put a minty underground sea in it at $175 in trade about a month ago and its already at $220-$230. In the same time period my primary fund I am invested in went from $32 a share to $33.50 a share. Scared to look up fetches now that they are overtaking some of the dual lands. I am sitting an a spare playset think I may have to move it soon.

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

Everytime I see a post in here i cringe in expectation of being floored by some insane price jump

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Mox Opal is $55 TCG low ...

I'm dumping all my zen fetches for duals right now. They are stupidly high right now.

Shit. This is insane.

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Originally Posted by nedleeds

Mox Opal is $55 TCG low ...

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Luckily this is a card that I never will care to own

Look up Serum Visions or Celestial Colonnade <yuck>

So much for Modern being the affordable eternal format.

I'd love to know how big of an impact on prices have the emergency buys of people who wish to finalize their decks/projects/collections before the prices go completely crazy.
I guess that my all-chinese Thresh will never happen.
I guess that there are people who just realized that their 40plus40 will never happen.
I guess that a complete collection of Kipling West is still doable, though.

Makes me wonder how long Modern is still supportable with more and more decks going easily in the 1k-2k dollar range.

Sure, Wizards can reprint stuff, but prices are literally exploding everywhere and it takes Wizards two years to react - and even then, their "Collect the protectors"-stance kinda ruins the whole point of reprints when because they fear the scorn of people who shelled out 800 bucks for the playset of Tarmogoyfs.

I think the obvious end result of all this is that WotC will discontinue Modern as a Pro Tour format. They will probably still have the odd GP like they do with Legacy, but this experiment has failed and shown that Modern - strike that, non-rotating Magic in general - is unsustainable long-term without a serious adjustment of their reprint policies.

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Originally Posted by swoop

did anyone recieved already their chinese copy cards? hows the quality?

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Quality is poor. I touched one and it gave me AIDS.

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Originally Posted by majikal

I think the obvious end result of all this is that WotC will discontinue Modern as a Pro Tour format. They will probably still have the odd GP like they do with Legacy, but this experiment has failed and shown that Modern - strike that, non-rotating Magic in general - is unsustainable long-term without a serious adjustment of their reprint policies.

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This current crazy prices just proves your point. Maybe its time for wizard to bring back the extended with the 3 latest blocks as a PTQ format. There is simply no way to reprint enough cards to satisfy demand for Tarmogoyfs, Birthing Pods, fetchlands, mox opal.

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Originally Posted by swoop

did anyone recieved already their chinese copy cards? hows the quality?

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Playable (sleeved). Untradeable (in person).

Maybe. Or they might see they just got 4,200~ people to show up for a GP and sold Modern Masters like AKs in Afghanistan.

well lets have that legacy pro tour then...

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Originally Posted by Phelix

well lets have that legacy pro tour then...

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But Legacy decks are too expensive, remember! Only the decks that can be bought from paper route allowance can be in a Pro Tour, like Modern....

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Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer

I'd love to know how big of an impact on prices have the emergency buys of people who wish to finalize their decks/projects/collections before the prices go completely crazy.

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I'm only speaking for myself here, but I've been severely cutting my down my collection to fund the last bits and pieces for my favorite decks before things get insanely out of hand. It has too many half-baked ideas that I can never afford to finish now- I was sitting on two Tarmos, but nearly $400 to finish out the playset, let alone the other cards required for the deck? Nah, I like not living in my parent's house too much for that.

If you can afford it, knock yourself out. Top-deck Magic is something I've been priced out of, which sucks but such is life. I've had to make some choices and be more conservative about Magic, which, for the record, I should have done in the first place. Perhaps waiting longer would get more out of the whole charade, but these are the chances we have to take.

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Originally Posted by nedleeds

Maybe. Or they might see they just got 4,200~ people to show up for a GP and sold Modern Masters like AKs in Afghanistan.

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It kinda baffles me how the people at Wizards hate money and get away with it.

If I was a higher-up at Hasbro, I sure would raise hell about why they don't milk their cash cow properly. Demand is clearly there, but they do jackshit to fullfil it. This isn't a videogame company milking us with DLC - they're driving prices up by NOT milking us, as paradox as it sounds.

Inefficiency is probably one of Wizards' trademarks over the years. Just look at the sad state of MODO.

It's shocking to me that legacy-only staples still continues to climb. I mean I know Legacy is a fantastic format and all, but are there really that many new folks who are entering the format? For current legacy players, I would think they would either a) already have most of the staples they need for various decks or b) would sell off other cards first which would increase the available supply of those cards.

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Originally Posted by davelin

It's shocking to me that legacy-only staples still continues to climb. I mean I know Legacy is a fantastic format and all, but are there really that many new folks who are entering the format? For current legacy players, I would think they would either a) already have most of the staples they need for various decks or b) would sell off other cards first which would increase the available supply of those cards.

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Speculators/Hoarders are the reason the prices rise so abnormally. Sure, the Legacy community has grown, but that doesn't justify the random price spikes.

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Originally Posted by davelin

It's shocking to me that legacy-only staples still continues to climb. I mean I know Legacy is a fantastic format and all, but are there really that many new folks who are entering the format? For current legacy players, I would think they would either a) already have most of the staples they need for various decks or b) would sell off other cards first which would increase the available supply of those cards.

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In my area, yes. There were 319 players for the Legacy portion of SCG Seattle. Last October there were 253 players in that event, and there were 261 the April before that. Turnouts at the local level and at SCG tournaments have been stronger in 2014 than they were in 2013, and 2013's were stronger than years prior. Some players are selling out of the format, but there are two or three new players for each one leaving. Veteran Legacy players still want to build into different strategies, especially fringe or exotic things. Very few players can say they have a playset of everything (or most things) in the format.

Edit: Spikes are a different issue.

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Originally Posted by ESG

In my area, yes. There were 319 players for the Legacy portion of SCG Seattle. Last October there were 253 players in that event, and there were 261 the April before that. Turnouts at the local level and at SCG tournaments have been stronger in 2014 than they were in 2013, and 2013's were stronger than years prior. Some players are selling out of the format, but there are two or three new players for each one leaving. Veteran Legacy players still want to build into different strategies, especially fringe or exotic things. Very few players can say they have a playset of everything (or most things) in the format.

Edit: Spikes are a different issue.

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That's great to hear! But has anyone taken a look to see if across the country (or even world?) to see if Legacy attendance is up since that will drive prices more than demand in a specific geographic area?

I'm almost certain most SCG Opens have risen in number compared to years past in each respective area. Our Local weekly dipped down to like 16 for a short period, but have risen back to ~25 a week.

I think the most annoying thing is the insane disparity between the prices of blue and non blue duals. I can get a plateau or scrubland on ebay for like 40-55 bucks, and USeas and Volc are like 170. Insanity.

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

I think the most annoying thing is the insane disparity between the prices of blue and non blue duals. I can get a plateau or scrubland on ebay for like 40-55 bucks, and USeas and Volc are like 170. Insanity.

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Someones hoarding plateaus waiting for that one deck that spikes their price

I think my next project is going to be just picking up a bunch of underpriced non blue duals. I have accepted that I will never play a T1 blue deck so fuck it.

Also don't forget that Commander is still very popular, which drives up the price of many of the Legacy staples that overlap.

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

I think my next project is going to be just picking up a bunch of underpriced non blue duals. I have accepted that I will never play a T1 blue deck so fuck it.

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which ones tho? savannah seems like the most likely to increase, maybe scrubland.

Scrubland seems under valued considering I can get MP ones on eBay for 50 bucks. Then I may pick up badlands if they are cheap

I don't think it's fair to underestimate new players actually buying into legacy. I got back into magic during innistrad on a whim after over a decade long hiatus and was randomly introduced to legacy by someone letting me borrow dead guy ale to play in an event. If your smart about your choices and avoid the financial pitfall that is standard and pack cracking its pretty reasonable to buy a legacy deck compared to other hobbies.

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Originally Posted by Benrobnu

I don't think it's fair to underestimate new players actually buying into legacy. I got back into magic during innistrad on a whim after over a decade long hiatus and was randomly introduced to legacy by someone letting me borrow dead guy ale to play in an event. If your smart about your choices and avoid the financial pitfall that is standard and pack cracking its pretty reasonable to buy a legacy deck compared to other hobbies.

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Good point, I'm guessing there is a good number of folks coming back to the game after a hiatus and earning a decent income.

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Originally Posted by shrubs

If you can afford it, knock yourself out. Top-deck Magic is something I've been priced out of, which sucks but such is life. I've had to make some choices and be more conservative about Magic, which, for the record, I should have done in the first place. Perhaps waiting longer would get more out of the whole charade, but these are the chances we have to take.

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You're right. And that's what I'm doing right now: hastily finishing the deck I'll keep, working on a project or two and throwing away all the things. Otoh, I sold UR fetches some time around Christmas and they doubled in price since then. Oh, the pain of decisions - should I sit on the remaining cards, or should I sell now...

On the rising number of Legacy players: I consider the "two new for one leaving" phrase being just that, a phrase. I'd love to see the real numbers, if there's a chance to get them. I believe that overall MtG/Legacy players' number doubled over last few years, but I guess it isn't +50 % per year.
Also, our lgs sees twenty ppl on Thu. Yes, the faces change over the time, but it's still around twenty players. We've started at twenty back in 2007 and the "two for one players' change phenomenon" brought us to... twenty in 2014.

I think the non-SCG, non-GP, non-BoM growth of Legacy is overrated.

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

Still Glad I never traded my Wastes. Even if one is damaged.

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now the cheapest wastelands on tcg is $109.99 with the next cheapest being $120.73. :eek:

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Originally Posted by davelin

It's shocking to me that legacy-only staples still continues to climb. I mean I know Legacy is a fantastic format and all, but are there really that many new folks who are entering the format? For current legacy players, I would think they would either a) already have most of the staples they need for various decks or b) would sell off other cards first which would increase the available supply of those cards.

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In fact, I've been charting Legacy attendance at various events for quite a while. I used to keep a blog with these figures as I updated them on Salvation, but it seems this got wiped out when they made the switch to the godawful new forum, and their new equivalent is nearly impossible to write content for since it doesn't use standard forum or HTML tags.

Anyway, here is a plot of Legacy attendance numbers for every single Legacy Open since its inception:

http://i.imgur.com/9csRT3M.png

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Originally Posted by davelin

But has anyone taken a look to see if across the country (or even world?) to see if Legacy attendance is up since that will drive prices more than demand in a specific geographic area?

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Yes, Legacy attendance is up in all major regions of the U.S., at least according to SCG turnout. I've also annotated the host city for each event.

http://i.imgur.com/d2DZrWP.png
http://i.imgur.com/WM41hLK.png
http://i.imgur.com/b3FOI9f.png
http://i.imgur.com/tXtlPtz.png

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Originally Posted by ESG

In my area, yes. There were 319 players for the Legacy portion of SCG Seattle. Last October there were 253 players in that event, and there were 261 the April before that. Turnouts at the local level and at SCG tournaments have been stronger in 2014 than they were in 2013, and 2013's were stronger than years prior. Some players are selling out of the format, but there are two or three new players for each one leaving.

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I go to the same store as ESG, and I've also kept track of attendance numbers for all of the events I've been to. There's a pretty demonstrable trend towards higher attendance over the years, due to influx of new players:

http://i.imgur.com/gM5urfN.png

Note that these only include weekly events for the sake of comparison, as our LGS also runs occasional weekend events that get even better attendance. I should point out that there are two events in the graph above with anomalously high attendance, due to special prizes awarded on Memorial Day and Labor Day. The Mondays with relatively low attendance usually follow a major Legacy event such as an SCG Open or a similar type of tournament in the Pacific Northwest (as evident from the most recent data point immediately after the recent SCG Open).

For the record, here are the actual numbers for SCG Legacy Opens in Seattle:

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2010/06/10 190
2011/07/24 184
2012/07/01 187
2012/11/18 164
2013/04/21 261
2013/10/20 253
2014/03/16 321

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tl;dr Lots of players are joining the format, which at least partially recent price trends.