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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sherko7
As for the SB, if I were to include the 3rd Abrupt Decay in the MD I'd certainly cut the 1 in the SB. Golgari Charm is a great utility spell, especially against Elves. If I were to cut that I'd probably add a 3rd Engineered Plague or the 4th P. Deed. I'm quite low on surgical effects, but that's because I don't own the others. If I had Extirpates I'd probably swap them in with the Memoricide. 3 is max though.
Duress is there because I will NOT throw cash on those Thoughtseizes. I know its good, but Duress will do for now.
Remove the 1pc Liliana of the Veil then change it to abrupt decay. You can also put Inquisition of Kozilek if you have maybe 2 Duress / 1 Inquisition of Kozilek. Remove the Golgari Charm and a piece of Duress Pernicious Deed can handle that, put in Surgical Extraction/Extirpate. And take note if you have carpet of flowers in play and if you drawn another carpet of flowers you can declare the triggered during 2nd main phase so that it will become more abusive :laugh:
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Hi guys,
Long time lurker and few posts, but have a question about Recurring Nightmare and Yosei.
When you sac Yosei to the RN cost, in which order do Yosei's trigger and RN place ón the stack? Will Yosei or RN resolve first?
Thanks in advance
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Since sacrificing Yosei is part of RN activations cost, it will hit the gy and then trigger. Only after Yosei trigger is done resolving and both players pass priority the Nightmare activation resolves.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Philipp2293
Since sacrificing Yosei is part of RN activations cost, it will hit the gy and then trigger. Only after Yosei trigger is done resolving and both players pass priority the Nightmare activation resolves.
In that explanation, you're saying you can sac Yosei to RN, then return Yosei?
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
No, you have to assign targets then pay costs, which means you can't get back the creature you're sacrificing.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TerribleTim68
In that explanation, you're saying you can sac Yosei to RN, then return Yosei?
No.
You activate Nightmare's ability, naming a target and paying costs (saccing/bouncing) - it goes on the stack. As Yosei is sacced, its trigger goes higher on the stack. When Priority is passed, Yosei resolved, then priority is passed, and Nightmare resolves.
The key point is that Nightmare needs a legal target when activated.
(Note that the timing works out the same as with Cabal Therapy / Explorer - you cast therapy, targetting and paying costs to put it on the stack, then Explorer triggers and gets lands first)
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Blastoderm
I would play another abrupt decay main. It's just so good vs everything. With all that burn in your meta you're gonna pray you have one in your hand when they cast sulfuric vortex before you get thragtusk. Vs Jund I think you just want an explorer to die. Once you cast grave titan I don't see how they can win. I've been liking deathrites more and more recently only due to the fact that show and tell is running rampant. I always gsz for a deathrite shaman for ramp as I don't want to give them lands. I'm playing 3 natural order maindeck so I'm running 3. Reanimator seems to be getting more popular atm so it's great vs that also.
Yeah I figured I really needed room for that 3rd Abrupt Decay main. Really tempted to put an Obstinate Baloth main though... But it's already crowded as it is. :eek:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kabards
Remove the 1pc Liliana of the Veil then change it to abrupt decay. You can also put Inquisition of Kozilek if you have maybe 2 Duress / 1 Inquisition of Kozilek. Remove the Golgari Charm and a piece of Duress Pernicious Deed can handle that, put in Surgical Extraction/Extirpate. And take note if you have carpet of flowers in play and if you drawn another carpet of flowers you can declare the triggered during 2nd main phase so that it will become more abusive :laugh:
Maybe I will try cutting 1 Liliana. It has rarely been the bomb I thought it would be during playtesting, but when its good, its great! :laugh: I'd play more Extirpate effects if I had them, maybe I'll try going to the tournament area early this time to see if I can get some. :smile:
Will be doing some last minute testing today with 3 Vampire Nighthawk main deck. It seems like a good card against Jund and other aggressive decks, as well as being able to randomly poke an SnT'd fatty to death. I'm cutting DRS and Acidic Slime for it though, so they better be worth it. :laugh:
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sherko7
Maybe I will try cutting 1 Liliana. It has rarely been the bomb I thought it would be during playtesting, but when its good, its great! :laugh: I'd play more Extirpate effects if I had them, maybe I'll try going to the tournament area early this time to see if I can get some. :smile:
Will be doing some last minute testing today with 3 Vampire Nighthawk main deck. It seems like a good card against Jund and other aggressive decks, as well as being able to randomly poke an SnT'd fatty to death. I'm cutting DRS and Acidic Slime for it though, so they better be worth it. :laugh:
I've really been surprised to not like Lily as well. The inherent card advantage and high curve of the deck frequently means the discard ability is not very exciting against fair decks, which can dump their hands faster (or I dump it for them), and the sacrifice ability is underwhelming when I already have decent removal and ways to deal with shroud guys. It seems reasonable against combo, where both abilities can be quite relevant (especially if big monsters are involved), but I'm not sure that's the best card for the job.
Other perspectives?
I've found Deathrite fairly reasonable - the toolbox abilities can obviously be nice, it's a decent ramp spell when you don't have explorer (or don't want to give that particular opponent the lands), its "evasion" is very good at that point in your curve (which the common 3-5 drops lack), and the huge target on its head usually means it doesn't stick around long enough to non-bo your Deed (which an the obvious objection).
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Liliana is good in BUG, because you have less other removal (no Rector/Moat, B. Wish, P. Fire) and because you can draw cards with Jace. Also Lili/Jace is a classic combo. She is unplayable in Scapewish because you can't discard anything to it (you need all your lands and spells).
In GB/w and G/B she is okay I think, good but not insane.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Attended my first ever tourney with GB Nic Fit and went 3-2... Winning 1 pack and got a Blood Crypt, lol. Entrance fee was about $5 so not bad. :laugh:
Round 1: vs ANT
Just my luck. Game 1 I was on the draw and he opened with Scalding Tarn into Island and Ponder. So I assumed SnT! The dreaded matchup! Cabal Therapy for SnT and I was shocked to see all business: Past in Flames, Tendrils, Cabal Ritual, Cabal Therapy, Burning Wish and lands... Just my luck, I thought. He hit a cantrip turn 2 and I thought he was about to go off, luckily, he must have bricked so on my turn I cast Veteran Explorer, Flashback Therapy naming Burning Wish. He got additional lands apparently. I proceeded to Hymn him on the same turn and got rid of Cabal Ritual and his Cabal Therapy. Casted Thrun the next turn and he decided to go off... He Tendrils me for 14 and I was down to 5. I proceeded to hit him 7 per turn with Thrun and Treetop Village until he eventually conceded. Game 2 was a bit less interesting. I decided to keep a hand with 1 land, Therapy, Duress, SDT, GSZ and a Thragtusk I think. He Duress'd on his first turn and rid of my Duress. I Therapy, naming LED and got one! He had 2 more Therapy and some lands and I guess he decided he could slow me down while he tried assembling what he needed. Unfortunately I top deck'd more Cabal Therapies, GSZ'd Eternal Witness to get Duress, and so on until finally killing him. with I think Garruk PH.
Match: 1-0, Games: 2-0
Round 2: vs Burn
Oh how I dreaded this match up. I was against a friend and I knew what he was packing. He led with the usual Goblin Guide and I with Veteran Explorer blocking his GG on the next turn. Abrupt Decay'd his GG EoT and decided to GSZ for Ooze with 1 more mana open, eating GG who met a Lightning Bolt shortly after. I was down to 11, and threw down a Thragtusk who ate Chain Lightning. I proceeded to beat face with the Beast token with SDT in play. Unfortunately I was top decking lands and lands and another SDT with no way to shuffle :( Finally died to a double Fireblast and Flame Rift. Game 2, I just died, plain and simple, to a Grim Lavamancer, Goblin Guide and Hellspark Elemental. After the game, I talked with @kabards and he suggested I add a Kitchen Finks MD.
Match: 1-1, Games: 2-2
Round 3: vs Elves
Was playing my brother, lol. I knew everything he ran as we played a lot at home. I was glad to keep a hand with 2 Cabal Therapies and top deck'd another before proceeding to beat down with Thrun for the win. Games 2 and 3, he just combo'd off as I had kept really loose hands. We agreed to give him a sweep to increase his chances of getting to the top.
Match: 1-2, Games 3-4
Round 4: vs Manaless Dredge
I thought this was going to be the last round, and I knew what my opponent was playing. Having similar experience, I knew the deck very well and I felt very confident going into that match. G1, I was on the play, kept a hand with 1 land, and threw down a Deathrite Shaman. He proceeded to discard Stinkweed Imp. I drew a card and passed the turn, no land drop. During his draw step he asked whether I would let him Dredge, I removed the Imp but he decided to cycle Street Wraith. He had 2 more Wraiths and Gitaxian Probe in hand and that was that! G2 he kept a really slow hand with Dakmor Salvage being the only Dredger. I Therapy'd for Street Wraith but missed. A few turns later I was able to ramp up with Explorer, get an Ooze online and proceed to beat face for the win. G3 was pretty much the same but with him keeping a worse hand (no Dredger plus 2 Narcos).
Match 2-2, Games 5-5
Round 5: vs The Gate!
This match up was pretty fun. A friend of mine had a similar deck, but with Phyrexian Obliterator instead of Abyssal Persecutor and I had tested against that deck and we were about 50-50. G1 he had an extremely disrupting hand with Thoughtseize, Hymn to Tourach (binning my own Hymn!) and then I think 1 or 2 more Thoughtseizes. He then proceeded to beat me up with Abyssal Persecutor and and Liliana online. I decided to just scoop to save time. G2 I had a pretty good hand with Therapy, Vet Explorer, 2 lands plus Treetop Village and GSZ plus something. I blind Therapy for Thoughtseize, hitting none while he top decked the Thoughtseize. The game went on as he stalled me with Dystopia while I was beating him with Treetop Village. I was able to grab a Pernicious Deed while my Garruk PH was stalling his Dystopia, game over. G3, I had a great hand with ramp, DRS and disruption. His double Abyssal Persecutors died to a Pernicious Deed without even getting 1 swing. Volrath's Stronghold and Eternal Witness were the tag team here, recurring Maelstrom Pulses and Abrupt Decays turn and turn again. He had to keep killing the Witness as he was trying to protect his Liliana. Finally, game ended with Treetop Village and Grave Titan beatdown.
Match 3-2, Games 7-6
Not bad for my first tourney with Nic Fit! I really needed a Diabolic Intent but the guy I was buying it from didn't push through so I decided to sub Liliana in. I am not impressed with Lili in the deck, she's good, but probably not with the GB build. Another guy I am not really impressed with at the moment is Grave Titan. Yes, he is huge, kills Planeswalkers, etc... But Prime Time does the same more often than not. I might put in a Kitchen Finks in his place and give it a shot. Kitchen Finks buys me time against the more agressive decks, plus its a warm body for Cabal Therapy! Also, as @kabards suggested to me, I really needed another 3 drop to GSZ (I only had 2 Eternal Witness and true enough, more often than not there are times where I don't need to nab a card from my GY).
Lovin this!:tongue:
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
I really like Kitchen Finks in this deck. I wish I could fit it in Rector. It provides a lot of card advantage with the sad outlets and it is really good against aggressive decks and burn.
I seen someone talk about cutting memoricide, I think I will do the same. I can never get it early enough to use of when I want it. I think I will add thoughtseize back.
Abrupt decay in the SB has been amazing for me lately. And I haven't missed extirpate.
I have been playing around with Restoration Angel because I need a 4 drop. Running 2 Baneslayers is good but too often I get stuck at 4 lands. I want it to be Ifh-Biff but I don't have one right now. Thrun MD has been amazing.
Well that's all the notes I have. I might start playing more often since we now have legacy 2x a week.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
I might consider Obstinate Baloth instead of Kitchen Finks if you're having aggro troubles and there are that many Hymn to Tourach decks in your metagame. I also can't recommend 1x Sakura-Tribe Elder highly enough, he does a lot of work as a guaranteed secondary ramp source that can be a Therapy body, blocks, and gets you to your Thragtusks which should usually be enough to get you there.
Have you posted an updated list recently, CRich?
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MrIggins
I might consider Obstinate Baloth instead of Kitchen Finks if you're having aggro troubles and there are that many Hymn to Tourach decks in your metagame. I also can't recommend 1x Sakura-Tribe Elder highly enough, he does a lot of work as a guaranteed secondary ramp source that can be a Therapy body, blocks, and gets you to your Thragtusks which should usually be enough to get you there.
Have you posted an updated list recently, CRich?
Thing is, every time I GSZ for 4 I would almost always want a Thrun, but whenever I GSZ for 3 I would sometimes not need to get something from my yard. :)
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sherko7
Thing is, every time I GSZ for 4 I would almost always want a Thrun, but whenever I GSZ for 3 I would sometimes not need to get something from my yard. :)
In that case I recommend you just Zenith for an Ooze plus an activation, get a two-drop plus top activation, etc; I have been playing 2x Thragtusk as my gaining life card and it's been good, although I guess Finks is really good against decks like Jund in addition to just being a roadblock against aggro, so maybe it's worth another look.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MrIggins
I might consider Obstinate Baloth instead of Kitchen Finks if you're having aggro troubles and there are that many Hymn to Tourach decks in your metagame. I also can't recommend 1x Sakura-Tribe Elder highly enough, he does a lot of work as a guaranteed secondary ramp source that can be a Therapy body, blocks, and gets you to your Thragtusks which should usually be enough to get you there.
Have you posted an updated list recently, CRich?
Obstinate Baloth and Kitchen Finks serve the same purpose but against burn that 1 mana matters. Also against DRS you can make your opponent use him early for rector. I have more Jund than fast decks so I'm sticking with the Baloth.
I posted a list a while back. Before SCG cincy.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
My current BUG Fit List:
14 Green Sun's Zenith Targets
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Sakura Tribe-Elder
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Eternal Witness
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
4 Alternative Win-Cons
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor[/u]
1 Batterskull
9 Utility Spells
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Brainstorm
1 Diabolic Intent
11 Removal and Disruption
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Pernicious Deed
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Golgari Charm
3 Utility Lands/PrimeTime Targets
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Creeping Tar Pit
8 Fetches
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Duals
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
7 Basics
3 Forest
1 Swamp
3 Island
15 Sideboard
4 Force of Will
3 Negate
1 Counterspell
3 Carpet of Flowers
2 Leyline of the Void
2 Leyline of Sanctity
Thoughts:
-Dryad Arbor: I honestly believe this land creature makes up for the fact Deed kills it. In fact, it pretty much exists to eat removal (land and creature) or to chump block when Vet isn't around.
-Sakura-Tribe Elder: As opposed to Dryad Arbor, Deathrite Shaman never did much in my original list, hence the swap to STE.
-Jace, the Mind Sculptor: No reason not to run 3. Actually also helps to enable a transformational sideboard against combo (i.e. blue count too low before).
-Golgari Charm: Between all the X/1 utility creatures/swarms, expensive enchantments that could ruin my strategy, and the lack of a "can't be regen" clause on Deed, Golgari Charm pulls a lot more weight than Damnation, even if it overlaps A LOT with Maelstrom Pulse and Pernicious Deed.
-Counterspells: The only real defense against Show and Tell decks that run Leyline of Sanctity is to counter their Show and Tell. Not too sold on the 4-3-1 split though.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
So, a funny anecdote for you guys from GP Charlotte. I entered a win-a-box on Sunday morning with Rector. Round 1 is vs Belcher. He drops Belcher on t1, but only has a Taiga as a mana source. His hand (which I know from Land Grant) is Belcher #2 + Chrome Mox (with nothing to imprint). My turn is Explorer pass / pray-you-don't-draw-a-LED. He bricks his draw and ships back.
I go Tower -> sac Explorer -> Therapy you naming Belcher (see Desperate Ritual + Chrome Mox), Fetters your Belcher.
He looked annoyed, and then like 4 turns later I killed him with Baneslayer.
I board in the Chalices, the Sanctities, the Mindbreaks, the Nether Void, and the Cranial twins. I mull to FOUR in game two without hitting any of the above -or- a Therapy (14 possible cards that I could have hit in my 7, 6, 5, or 4). I accept that I'm dead and keep land, land, Tribe-Elder, Top -- which isn't a horrible keep because I have a respectable chance of hitting a Deed or topping into Mindbreak. He durdles for a turn or two, I fail to draw anything / find anything with Top, and then he flips his deck. Pretty standard.
Game three I keep my hand of Sanctity, Green Sun, Explorer, Rector, land, land. I lead with Explorer, he leads with 16 goblins. I Zenith up Rusalka and pass. He puts me to 5 after I block one token with Explorer, which nets me two lands, giving me four in play with none in hand. I rip Savannah off the top, slam Rector and pass her through Rusalka to deed for 0. He doesn't recover enough to do anything to me before I kill him.
Beating Belcher with 0 effective sideboard cards is fun!
Then round 2 I played against Elves, and failed to draw a Deed, a Rector, the Moat, or any of my sideboard cards with a Top+shuffles going the whole time across both games. So frustrating. My opponent actually literally couldn't have played looser. There were multiple turns where I was just dead on board and he simply didn't kill me. My deck just decided that it didn't feel like winning =/
Looked like it was going to be High Tide in the finals, too, which would have been an easy win =/ Sad times.
In happier news, I picked up my last two Jap foil Therapies finally, and also found a Jap foil Maelstrom Pulse. Along with my now signed-in-silver Gurus, Rector's looking quite pretty =D One of these days I'll have to take more pictures of her to put up in the pimp thread. I'm currently at 41/61 maindeck that are final-pimped (aside from artist signatures). 6 of those are going to take approximately forever to find/acquire (the Tops and Heaths). The other 14 shouldn't be insanely hard, though....hell, two of them are "easy" -- the Baneslayers.
Finally, I'll have a new BUG list for you guys to look at sometime in the next day or two. One of my friends gave me the core idea for it, and I begrudgingly built it in the car on the way down. I was really unsure about it, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized that it's actually probably/possibly quite good, because unlike the other BUG versions, it functions via creatures. It involves a 6-drop mono-blue creature that's legal in standard right now. I'll let you guys take some guesses while I reconstruct the list from my memory. I will also note that he did manage to go 3-1 in the Legacy Challenge with it on Saturday night.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
I'm interested, and guessing it's either the new sphinx (unlikely) or DeadEye Navigator.
Keep us updated!
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Viridia
I'm interested, and guessing it's either the new sphinx (unlikely) or DeadEye Navigator.
Keep us updated!
Got it in one! It's a Deadeye list =) I'm working on re-building it now (I derped and gave him the list and didn't keep a copy for myself). I'll post it up when I'm done.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
I too was at GP Charlotte, but playing Rock. I went 2-1-1 in the Legacy Challenge on Saturday and played Modern on Sunday, but I did see a guy playing BUG Fit. Didn't get to watch when he was next to me, but I saw Therapies and Explorers.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Claymore
I too was at GP Charlotte, but playing Rock. I went 2-1-1 in the Legacy Challenge on Saturday and played Modern on Sunday, but I did see a guy playing BUG Fit. Didn't get to watch when he was next to me, but I saw Therapies and Explorers.
Big mulatto/black guy? That would have been my friend Kyle =)
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Yeah, that's it. I was pretty stoked to see a Fit running around but didn't get to see how he did. Any idea?
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Claymore
Yeah, that's it. I was pretty stoked to see a Fit running around but didn't get to see how he did. Any idea?
He went X-1 in the challenge. He did a few win-a-boxes on Sunday I know, but I don't think he won any of them. Might have split one. I know he got paired up against my 12post deck in round 1 of one of the win-a-boxes and my friend who was borrowing it bent him over with it....which I actually kind of think that was just bad luck on Kyle's part, because this list is designed to be resilient to 12-post. Don't really know specifics though....Kyle isn't exactly great at relating details of games and like what worked and what didn't and such.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Hi Guys,
I am preparing for the next Legacy GP in Europe, and I have a quick Sideboard question. Let's assume I play a GBw Rector version of Nic Fit. What would you better sideboard against Jund ?
I've been in a local tournament last week end, and played 2 Junds. At that time I only had a 4th Decay and a Sigarda to board in (already 3 Deed maindeck, and Deed is not so so cool as you have to play it "active" because of adverse Decays)
Sigarda is an insta-win, and actually made me win the 1st Jund in rounds.
And I lose to the 2nd Jund in Top4, because of heavy discard. (and my opponent had quite the regular start Thoughtseize into Bob into Lili into BBE into stuffs 2 times, which does not help a lot)
So I have been thinking, should I SB Leyline of Sanctity against Jund ?
I could also board Infest instead of Deed to wipe his creatures away (as Deed is not as good as usual), but the holding the aggressivity is not so much my concern. (I mean Explorer and Rector are good "not quite Moat" enough to stall the game)
What are your experiences against Jund ?
Thx for the feedback.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
vilnico
Hi Guys,
I am preparing for the next Legacy GP in Europe, and I have a quick Sideboard question. Let's assume I play a GBw Rector version of Nic Fit. What would you better sideboard against Jund ?
I've been in a local tournament last week end, and played 2 Junds. At that time I only had a 4th Decay and a Sigarda to board in (already 3 Deed maindeck, and Deed is not so so cool as you have to play it "active" because of adverse Decays)
Sigarda is an insta-win, and actually made me win the 1st Jund in rounds.
And I lose to the 2nd Jund in Top4, because of heavy discard. (and my opponent had quite the regular start Thoughtseize into Bob into Lili into BBE into stuffs 2 times, which does not help a lot)
So I have been thinking, should I SB Leyline of Sanctity against Jund ?
I could also board Infest instead of Deed to wipe his creatures away (as Deed is not as good as usual), but the holding the aggressivity is not so much my concern. (I mean Explorer and Rector are good "not quite Moat" enough to stall the game)
What are your experiences against Jund ?
Thx for the feedback.
Sigarda isn't in your maindeck? o_O
Jund is REALLY easy if they don't hit Liliana of the Veil in the first three turns, and REALLY hard if they do. Leyline of Sanctity helps a ton -- considering that you're in Europe and thus have a higher combo meta, I would probably recommend 3 copies.
Deed is still fine against Jund. Goyf and Bob are their big cards, and sweeping all that crap away is good. Basically, the game against Jund goes as such: hope that they don't hit Liliana (Therapy this if you can), sweep away their goyfs/bobs/deathrites, then Sigarda FTW. Sun Titan is also ****ing ENORMOUS, and they can't stop him from bringing back Deed, as Deathrite doesn't exile enchantments. Rector can be big game if your opponent doesn't realize that Deathrite stops her, or if you sweep away Deathrite beforehand. Jund is almost entirely kold to Moat. They have Liliana ults and PFire (both of which are turned off by Leyline of Sanctity), and Deathrite Shaman as outs to Moat. That's it. Some lists run like a 1-of Pulse, but by and large, Moat will buy you a ton of time if not win you the game on the spot. If you're on the Moat plan, I'd recommend boarding in Leyline of the Void, as well -- that removes 80% of the Deathrite fodder that actually hurts you, while buying you time by keeping Goyf small and PFire offline.
But yeah. tl;dr: Sigarda. She's strictly better than their deck.
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4 Veteran Explorer
2 Coiling Oracle
1 Fierce Empath
2 Eternal Witness
1 Mystic Snake
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Thragtusk
1 Deadeye Navigator
1 Frost Titan
1 Palinchron
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Living Wish
3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Brainstorm
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Stroke of Genius
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Bayou
3 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
3 Island
3 Forest
2 Swamp
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Phyrexian Tower
SB: Deadeye Navigator (//engine)
SB: Vampire Hexmage (//planeswalker hate)
SB: Bojuka Bog (//graveyard hate)
SB: Karakas (//forms a lock with Venser)
SB: Volrath's Stronghold (//recursion engine)
SB: Acidic Slime (//land/enchant/artifact hate)
SB: Faceless Butcher (//targeted kill)
SB: The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale (//Empty the Warrens sweep / aggro pressure)
SB: Maga, Traitor to Mortals (//infinite kill)
SB: Phyrexian Revoker (//name a problem)
SB: 3 Negate
SB: 2 Mindbreak Trap
This is the updated list, as I would consider playing. Kyle's original list had a slightly different maindeck and sideboard, but we discussed a few changes after the event (such as cutting the 2 maindeck Abrupt Decays that it was running).
His list wasn't originally running Palinchron, but as I sat here rebuilding it, I was thinking to myself....that's like the easiest way to make infinite mana ever....-and- there's a ton of things to do with infinite mana once you have it. Wish->Maga just straight up kills, as does the Stroke and Blue Sun which are just hanging out for value otherwise. Infinite blink lets you draw your deck with EWit and a Brainstorm, or "just" Venser all of their permanents back to their hand.
I don't know if the Palinchron engine is actually good enough, but it seems like it's worth testing. The list overall is very untuned, but I honestly like where it's going better than I do the Future Sight or Panoptic Mirror lists, for one very simple reason: its "combo element" if you will is in its creatures. It still gets to run dudes, and Nic Fit likes to run dudes. It likes to gunk up the board with value chumpers that it can bring back later for even more value. Wish gives you a backup Deadeye in case your first one gets dealt with, while also providing you with a lot of flexible bullets for various problems and board states. It also gives you easy access to Volrath's Stronghold -- one of the few times you'll see me recommend the card. I built the wishboard to have a Scapewish-esque mentality for now -- it has a 5-card board with 10 bullets, which is the same as Scapewish. Eventually, however, I expect that one or two bullets will be dropped for additional sideboard space. I'll say again that this thing is very rough (it was just birthed on the 10-hour ride down to Charlotte), but I think that it has more promise than Future Sight and Panoptic Mirror combined.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
BUG - Check
Nic Fit - Check
Infinite Combo - Check
I'm in. :D
I'll go ahead and change up the lands as usual tho, as i prefer running 8 fetched and 5 duals rather then 6 fetch 7 duals ;)
Is the Frost Titan really necessary? Yes you get to tap down their field, however with anything else you will get the easy win aswell, and i don't think Frost Titan is the bomb the deck wants, how ever good it may be.
Also I'm not sure if you want to be running the Blue Sun's Zenith/Stroke of Genius, if you make infinite mana it's obviously auto-win, but i'm not sure if it's good enought for "just value", as it only really becomes good at X>3.
No more comments from me for now, i'll see if i can get the missing cards and get testing! :D
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
I like the Deadeye Idea. Ive been wanting to get into a combo oriented BUG nic fit list lately, and this might be my ticket.
Things Id definitely change would be the fetches and the X draw spells. If you have infinite mana you can just bounce your ewits or empaths till you get frost titan (or draw your whole deck with ewit) and then just tap/bounce all your opponents permanents for the rest of the game. Even if they somehow kill your ewit and empath, if you have the navigator and palinchron you have 2 massive bodies that are essentially hexproof, vigilance and cant die from combat damage. Turning just those 2 sideways should win you most games.
I see why frosty is there, empath>deadeye, untap, deadeye empath for infinite mana and then get frosty and tap down everything forever. But I wonder if there might be another card for 6+ mana that would be more useful if we drew it naturally. Ill look into it later, maybe nothing better exists.
I dont know about the living wishes. I obviously havent tested it yet, but are they really needed? My initial thoughts were that Id rather have more removal and ways to protect the deadeye combo, in the form of discard or counters.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Viridia
BUG - Check
Nic Fit - Check
Infinite Combo - Check
I'm in. :D
I'll go ahead and change up the lands as usual tho, as i prefer running 8 fetched and 5 duals rather then 6 fetch 7 duals ;)
Is the Frost Titan really necessary? Yes you get to tap down their field, however with anything else you will get the easy win aswell, and i don't think Frost Titan is the bomb the deck wants, how ever good it may be.
Also I'm not sure if you want to be running the Blue Sun's Zenith/Stroke of Genius, if you make infinite mana it's obviously auto-win, but i'm not sure if it's good enought for "just value", as it only really becomes good at X>3.
No more comments from me for now, i'll see if i can get the missing cards and get testing! :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheArchitect
I like the Deadeye Idea. Ive been wanting to get into a combo oriented BUG nic fit list lately, and this might be my ticket.
Things Id definitely change would be the fetches and the X draw spells. If you have infinite mana you can just bounce your ewits or empaths till you get frost titan (or draw your whole deck with ewit) and then just tap/bounce all your opponents permanents for the rest of the game. Even if they somehow kill your ewit and empath, if you have the navigator and palinchron you have 2 massive bodies that are essentially hexproof, vigilance and cant die from combat damage. Turning just those 2 sideways should win you most games.
I see why frosty is there, empath>deadeye, untap, deadeye empath for infinite mana and then get frosty and tap down everything forever. But I wonder if there might be another card for 6+ mana that would be more useful if we drew it naturally. Ill look into it later, maybe nothing better exists.
I dont know about the living wishes. I obviously havent tested it yet, but are they really needed? My initial thoughts were that Id rather have more removal and ways to protect the deadeye combo, in the form of discard or counters.
The main reason I have 6+7 in this deck as opposed to 8+5 is because I want the additional mana sources. I'm not saying that's correct, necessarily, but that was the thought process.
Frost Titan does two very nice things for you. He serves as a massive bomb, obviously, and plays nicely with infinite mana -- but the other thing he does, is be a complete and utter dickbag to Show and Tell. Between the Vensers and the Frosty, in addition to Wish->Karakas, this version should be better equipped to fight the Show and Tell menace in ways that do not involve dying to Leyline of Sanctity. It's possible that there's something better, but I'm not sure of what it is. For what little it matters due to his size, his shield does render him immune to Punishing Fire, which is a corner case, but a nice one.
The X draw spells are probably unnecessary. I wanted a way to draw a bunch of cards that plays nicely with infinite mana, so I threw them in when I added Palinchron. It might be better for them to be a 4th Brainstorm and a 3rd Top, but I dunno. I don't think that Jace is a good idea, since we can't do what vintage does (Tidespout Tyrant) to bounce/replay/re-Brainstorm to draw our deck. I've considered Baleful Strix just as additional stall / card draw via Deadeye, but I don't like the idea of running a pair of Strix -- that guy's way too good to be just a non-tutorable 2-of. I guess we could drop the Oracles and go to 4 Strix, but I feel there should be at least 1 Oracle because that's one of the best flicker targets -- you can draw a ton of cards with that engine, since the Oracle dumps any lands you hit into play to keep flickering more with.
I'd definitely consider those slots as being "open," though.
As for Living Wish, I actually think that Living Wish is really important. It has a very Scapewish-esque feel where Wish can just win you the game (Maga). Then you have some various answers to various problems, and then you have a 2nd Deadguy, in case the first one gets dealt with. Being able to wish for a 2nd copy of Deadeye seems critical to me, since sometimes the first one does die -- or, worse, gets exiled. But, at the same time, you don't really want to go deep and put like 3 copies of him maindeck, because you'll clog. The Wishes are actually a pretty elegant solution, I think.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Very solid points there Kevin.
I also believe the deck really wants the Wishes, considerimg that you don't want to ever run into double Navigator, but still want acces to more in case of removal.
I'd change the wishboard around a little bit, but that's just tweaking.
I'm not sure if you need the Titan vs S&S, you allready have the 2 Vensers aswel as Wish into Karakas/Fleshbag/Faceless + sideboard discard/counters to battle them.
I believe any 5+ toughness creature is near enough immune to Punishing Fire, considering that is costs atleast 7-8 mana to get 6 damage in anyway ;)
I think i'll be playing around with 3 Baleful Strix + 1 Coiling Oracle (for Zenithing) because, tbh, Strix is amazing in doing what it does best :P
I'd go up to 4 Brainstorm, 3 Top probably, as that makes it so much easier to get all pieces together, rather then being stuck with a spell that costs 6+ mana to be effective.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Hello hello,
glad to see we' re here to talk about BUG Nic Fit once again.
I am gonna post my old BUG (stem from the previous panoptic-vision list: it turned out that panoptic its super cool, but not that great sometimes).
People who are curious can take a look at it: it's solid, it's not that original though.. Slowly it got closer to any common BUG control deck. Anyway:
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Eternal Witness
2 Thragtusk
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Phyrexian Tower
3 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
2 Underground Sea
2 Forest
3 Island
2 Swamp
2 Abyssal Persecutor
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Ponder
2 Cryptic Command
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Consecrated Sphinx
SB: 2 Cranial Extraction
SB: 2 Bribery
SB: 3 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
SB: 3 Leyline of the Void
SB: 4 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 1 Obstinate Baloth
Now! The Deadeye list, which i fell in love for.
1) The Palinchron stuff is good, it looks good, it feels good, but it doesnt work that good. I replaced it.
2) Same for Titan: i like that blue frozen Viking, but its not optimal.
3) Guys, again I have something precious for you: Prime Speaker Zegana + Deadeye Navigator = BANG! BANG! BOOOM!
4) What dou you think about Cloudthresher ? To me he looks awesome, especially with Deadeye. Another option is Massacre Wurm. They would take the slot of Palinchron/Titan. I probably prefer Cloudthresher because he can be played during opponents turn and doesnt gift a free Time walk (due to the massive mana needed for Wurm), he can be a finisher if you have more life and deadeye on the field, and he can be played for its evoke cost and responded with deadeye's ability (while you still can get him with both GSZ and Fierce Empath). Massacre Wurm could be a sexy sb option.
5) I made some changes to sb too as long as I am not really sold on the infinite mana plan (I playtested it a little bit, and felt clunky).
So here's the list:
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deadeye Navigator
2 Coiling Oracle
2 Eternal Witness
1 Fierce Empath
1 Mystic Snake
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Thragtusk
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Living Wish
3 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Brainstorm
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Phyrexian Tower
3 Island
3 Forest
2 Swamp
3 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
2 Underground Sea
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Prime Speaker Zegana
1 Cloudthresher or Massacre Wurm
SB: 1 Deadeye Navigator
SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 Acidic Slime
SB: 1 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 1 Faceless Butcher
SB: 4 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 2 Cranial Extraction
SB: 1 Eternal Witness (I wanted more for grindy matchups)
SB: 1 Thragtusk
SB: 1 Creeping Tar Pit (Planeswalkers uncounterable solution)
Cheers!
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sderenatore
This seems... kinda awesome! It's one of the few cards from Gatecrash that was of much interest to me. It's green sunnable and if they don't kill your Navigator in response to the GSZ then that's a whole ton of cards in hand. I mean really, if you can't win with 6 more cards, a 5/5 and a 6/6, you aren't trying hard enough :)
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<3 Deadeye. Imma call him Ahab, since he also works well with Great Whale.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
I do not think Deadeye Navigator is good enough. Consecrated Sphinx also wins the game if you untap with it. It is better against Sorcery Speed Removal (Jace, Liliana, Pulse) and has better fighting stats (blocks Delver, Tombstalker).
But most importantly you play a ton of inferior cards (Venser and Mystic Snake over Jace TMS) just to make a 6-drop better. That seems way too gimmicky.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Why all those cute techs? IF you want carddraw and splash blue, why not run Damia, Sage of Stone? Still think Blue is not required. I rather run Armada Wurm for the lulz
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
@Arianrhod: Thx for advices
Indeed the Jund MU is kinda driven by their Lili, but also on the fact that our Explorers die. I think that more than Lili, it is the fact that I could not get them dead when I lost to Jund.
Thoughtseize T1 on Explorer or GSZ is also kinda deadly.
So I guess I'll go for Leylines.
And yes, I don't play Sigarda MD, i am the one that plays the weird Omniscience, so I don't have big guys in my stack. But would I play a "normal" version, I would certainly play Sigarda MD with so many Junds around.
About the late BUG list: The Dead-Eye thing is really cute, but I agree better with Tao. Consecrated Sphinx sounds better to me. I also wonder lately about playing Harmonize, and I think it would fit good in BUG. At least I would see it in place of Stroke of Genius.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Arianrhod
A while before the Nic Fit thread on The Source even existed and when my friends all laughed at me for testing out Veteran Explorer, I had a build similar to yours. Deadeye Navigator was not printed yet and I used Recurring Nightmare in combination with Palinchron. To set up the combo, I used Intuition + Eternal Witness or GZS (or Palinchron or Rec Nightmare in hand works too) in combination with 7 lands. So basically it was; Deed the board once then Intuition EOT for Palinchron, Recurring Nightmare and Cabal Therapy. If they give you Palinchron, play it then play Witness or GZS to get back Rec Nightmare and play it. Sac the Palinchron to Therapy and use Rec Nightmare to get Witness. Rinse, repeat, each loop costs 6 mana (play Rec Nightmare twice) and gains 7, netting 1 mana. Use Witness to bring Intuition and it's impossible to lose with infi mana and infi cards thanks to Intuition finding anything you might need (Deed wipes their board infi times, Thragtusk, which wasn't printed when I used this deck gives infi life and infi tokens, discard their hand with Therapy thus no need for additional win conditions). If they give you Rec Nightmare or Therapy instead of Palinchron, the combo still works. It even works with 6 lands with a creature in play: Witness for Rec Nightmare, Therapy targeting yourself to discard Palinchron and Rec Nightmare over and over again netting you a card every cycle and ending the combo with 6 lands untapped, a Palinchron in play, Recurring Nightmare in hand and whatever else you had in the yard thanks to Witness.
Graveyard hate seems like a glaring weakness, but that isn't true. Usually you have to Deed before being able to win, conviently clearing up any RiP, Relic, Tormod's Crypt and Scavenging Ooze that might stand in the way. Then you pack Therapy and perhaps Gitaxian Probe to check if the coast is clear for Surgical Extraction or Faerie Macabre. Although I haven't tested the deck in the Deathrite era, but I suppose the former still applies.
Ultimately, while the deck was pretty solid it had a very rough time against Jace TMS, combo decks and even with Top and Brainstorm in the deck I did get hurt by variance a little bit too much for my liking so I moved on to other decks. I do suppose the aforementioned issues are what Nic Fit struggles against in general and if you find a way to shore those issues up the format is broken. If anyone is interested in my list, which probably doesn't apply to todays metagame, let me know and I will post it.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tao
I do not think Deadeye Navigator is good enough. Consecrated Sphinx also wins the game if you untap with it. It is better against Sorcery Speed Removal (Jace, Liliana, Pulse) and has better fighting stats (blocks Delver, Tombstalker).
But most importantly you play a ton of inferior cards (Venser and Mystic Snake over Jace TMS) just to make a 6-drop better. That seems way too gimmicky.
While Jace is pretty amazing, Venser is the stone cold nuts in a lot of matchups that Nic Fit has issues with. Namely, combo matchups. There are so many small techy little things that can swing games where he comes around, Mystic Snake--sure, it's a singleton, it's probably only going to be useful with Deadeye Navigator, but Venser? Venser is a total monster.
Him and Deadeye also have a pretty unique relationship, better than mystic snake's, in that he's basically a walking Astral Slide But Better And He's Mother Fucking Venser (ASBBAHMFV).
This may be the coolest deck I've ever heard of...ever. Now I want (read: need) trops. Fuck.
I think the palinchron thing is stepping into being in danger of cool things, but Deadeye and the tricks actually seem to be able to stand on their own, at the very least Deadeye + Prime Speaker or whatever, probably drawing 6 cards for 2 mana repeatedly.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
vilnico
@Arianrhod: Thx for advices
Indeed the Jund MU is kinda driven by their Lili, but also on the fact that our Explorers die. I think that more than Lili, it is the fact that I could not get them dead when I lost to Jund.
Thoughtseize T1 on Explorer or GSZ is also kinda deadly.
So I guess I'll go for Leylines.
And yes, I don't play Sigarda MD, i am the one that plays the weird Omniscience, so I don't have big guys in my stack. But would I play a "normal" version, I would certainly play Sigarda MD with so many Junds around.
About the late BUG list: The Dead-Eye thing is really cute, but I agree better with Tao. Consecrated Sphinx sounds better to me. I also wonder lately about playing Harmonize, and I think it would fit good in BUG. At least I would see it in place of Stroke of Genius.
Ohhhh. I didn't realize that you were on Omni. I remember now. You had the Scroll Rack tech that I thought was sweet.
Are you running the Rusalka? If you're having trouble with Jund because you can't get through their tempo, 4 Green Suns and a Rusalka will do wonders for you. If memory serves you're running 2 or 3 Rectors, as well, so Rusalka would be good for that too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemnear
Why all those cute techs? IF you want carddraw and splash blue, why not run Damia, Sage of Stone? Still think Blue is not required. I rather run Armada Wurm for the lulz
Blue isn't required. It's optional, like every other version of Nic Fit that's in this thread. I'm a brewer at heart, and even if Rector and Scapewish are both highly competitive and nearly perfected, I'm always going to keep brewing new versions, because in doing so, I might find new technology for one of the pre-existing lists, or I might find something that's an even better way to attack a specific metagame. So yeah. Blue isn't required at all -- but it's something that some people prefer.
As for Damia, I've considered her several times, and I think that she's just worse than Con Sphinx. The only edge she has is that she can be Green Sunned. That's definitely an edge to be considered, but she has to survive an entire turn cycle, whereas Con Sphinx just has to survive an endstep and an upkeep to get value. IMO that's too big of a disadvantage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tao
I do not think Deadeye Navigator is good enough. Consecrated Sphinx also wins the game if you untap with it. It is better against Sorcery Speed Removal (Jace, Liliana, Pulse) and has better fighting stats (blocks Delver, Tombstalker).
But most importantly you play a ton of inferior cards (Venser and Mystic Snake over Jace TMS) just to make a 6-drop better. That seems way too gimmicky.
Con Sphinx was in the list over Palinchron originally -- I ended up cutting it in favor of the combo element. Sphinx is better in controlly Jace lists IMO, where you can be drawing into more removal to protect your Jace.
Snake is something I'm kind of "eh" about. It's a Green Sunnable lock piece for Deadeye, which I can appreciate, but I feel like that slot would be better served as a value guy. Snake might be better in the Wishboard, because while they know you have it, it at least goes into your hand as opposed to in play via Green Sun, which wastes its trigger and makes it useless without Deadeye.
Venser, on the other hand, I will defend. Venser is a hell of a good card. You can easily form a lock with him via Karakas, and he's a solid maindeck anti-Show and Tell option who just so happens to go apeshit with Deadeye.
Venser as compared to Jace....well....honestly, I don't like Jace in this version. I'd rather have more value creatures and more spells. I still say that the closest thing to compare the deck to is to Tyrant Oath in vintage. It just sits there and plays the control deck for a while, then it combos off. Oath can abuse Jace by bouncing and recasting him repeatedly, Brainstorming each interval so as to draw your deck. Jace also helps keep Tyrant in their deck so that they can Oath into it. In legacy, though, we get to play 4 Brainstorms. I would 100% play the 4th Brainstorm over the 1st Jace in this list, and I think that I would probably play Ponder or Git Probe before any additional Jaces. This particular version just isn't a Jace deck.
And I mean, I've Jaced a LOT of people in a lot of different decks in a lot of different formats. I fully understand Jace's power. He doesn't sync up well here, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sderenatore
Hello hello,
glad to see we' re here to talk about BUG Nic Fit once again.
[snip for space]
Now! The Deadeye list, which i fell in love for.
1) The Palinchron stuff is good, it looks good, it feels good, but it doesnt work that good. I replaced it.
2) Same for Titan: i like that blue frozen Viking, but its not optimal.
3) Guys, again I have something precious for you:
Prime Speaker Zegana +
Deadeye Navigator = BANG! BANG! BOOOM!
4) What dou you think about
Cloudthresher ? To me he looks awesome, especially with Deadeye. Another option is
Massacre Wurm. They would take the slot of Palinchron/Titan. I probably prefer Cloudthresher because he can be played during opponents turn and doesnt gift a free Time walk (due to the massive mana needed for Wurm), he can be a finisher if you have more life and deadeye on the field, and he can be played for its evoke cost and responded with deadeye's ability (while you still can get him with both GSZ and Fierce Empath). Massacre Wurm could be a sexy sb option.
5) I made some changes to sb too as long as I am not really sold on the infinite mana plan (I playtested it a little bit, and felt clunky).
Cheers!
I love me some Zegana. The problem with Zegana here is that most of this list's dudes are all small, so you're not going to get much value out of her. You have like, Tusk and Deadeye as significant draw engines. Everything else is a 1/x or a 2/x, which translates to Draw 2 or Draw 3 respectively. Those aren't bad per se...but I feel like Zegana could do better things in a list that's more "for her," so to speak.
Thresher is hilarious. Massacre Wurm is probably better since it hits all creatures regardless of whether they fly or not, even though it is more expensive (and triple black...ugh).
At what point should we be considering Mulldrifter?
Also, what did you not like about Palinchron? From the way you worded your post, I'm assuming that you actually tested it a little and didn't like it in practice. What went wrong?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mantis
A while before the Nic Fit thread on The Source even existed and when my friends all laughed at me for testing out Veteran Explorer, I had a build similar to yours. Deadeye Navigator was not printed yet and I used Recurring Nightmare in combination with Palinchron. To set up the combo, I used Intuition + Eternal Witness or GZS (or Palinchron or Rec Nightmare in hand works too) in combination with 7 lands. So basically it was; Deed the board once then Intuition EOT for Palinchron, Recurring Nightmare and Cabal Therapy. If they give you Palinchron, play it then play Witness or GZS to get back Rec Nightmare and play it. Sac the Palinchron to Therapy and use Rec Nightmare to get Witness. Rinse, repeat, each loop costs 6 mana (play Rec Nightmare twice) and gains 7, netting 1 mana. Use Witness to bring Intuition and it's impossible to lose with infi mana and infi cards thanks to Intuition finding anything you might need (Deed wipes their board infi times, Thragtusk, which wasn't printed when I used this deck gives infi life and infi tokens, discard their hand with Therapy thus no need for additional win conditions). If they give you Rec Nightmare or Therapy instead of Palinchron, the combo still works. It even works with 6 lands with a creature in play: Witness for Rec Nightmare, Therapy targeting yourself to discard Palinchron and Rec Nightmare over and over again netting you a card every cycle and ending the combo with 6 lands untapped, a Palinchron in play, Recurring Nightmare in hand and whatever else you had in the yard thanks to Witness.
Graveyard hate seems like a glaring weakness, but that isn't true. Usually you have to Deed before being able to win, conviently clearing up any RiP, Relic, Tormod's Crypt and Scavenging Ooze that might stand in the way. Then you pack Therapy and perhaps Gitaxian Probe to check if the coast is clear for Surgical Extraction or Faerie Macabre. Although I haven't tested the deck in the Deathrite era, but I suppose the former still applies.
Ultimately, while the deck was pretty solid it had a very rough time against Jace TMS, combo decks and even with Top and Brainstorm in the deck I did get hurt by variance a little bit too much for my liking so I moved on to other decks. I do suppose the aforementioned issues are what Nic Fit struggles against in general and if you find a way to shore those issues up the format is broken. If anyone is interested in my list, which probably doesn't apply to todays metagame, let me know and I will post it.
Sounds like Bruizar's list from months ago. By all means, though, post it up.
I will note that I'm not sure how much I like Nightmare in this list overall, since you can just Wish for Volrath's Stronghold. But, I'm certainly still willing to consider it.
Also, Probe+Therapy is still sick, and still an engine that I want to put in BUG versions, if I could ever find the space. I worry that it makes the deck too linear, since you're dedicating 4 slots to a straight cantrip (not even a fake Recall like Brainstorm).
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Wow . . . just realized that Fierce Empath turns the Deadeye combo into a one-card combo.
1. Play Empath get Deadeye
2. Play Deadeye and bond with Empath
3. Blink Empath twice get Palinchron and win-con (Grave Titan or Kokusho): do not rebond after
getting win con
4. Generate a megaton of mana with Deadeye and Palinchron, then win.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
EpicLevelCommoner
Wow . . . just realized that Fierce Empath turns the Deadeye combo into a one-card combo.
1. Play Empath get Deadeye
2. Play Deadeye and bond with Empath
3. Blink Empath twice get Palinchron and win-con (Grave Titan or Kokusho): do not rebond after
getting win con
4. Generate a megaton of mana with Deadeye and Palinchron, then win.
I still say Frosted Tits is better. It's entirely possible that there's a better-still option....unfortunately Inferno Titan isn't a possibility (as that would just straight kill that turn). I'm not sure what that option is, though....and honestly, I really like Frost in this deck. It's been nothing but fantastic for me so far.
