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I name LED every single time if I run Revokers for the reasons you mentioned. A single removal spell can reduce you to hoping you're floating some kind of relevant answer on top of your library with Top, and that's really not a situation I like to be in if at all possible. Storm is too resilient for us to try to get cute and name multiple cards: besides, cards like Crop Rotation, Relic/Crypt/Surgical and Trickbind can also answer some of those other cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by into_play
Are you serious? Oblivion Stone, All is Dust, Ugin, EE come to my mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by maCHOOga
Mr. Smolinski finished 3rd place @SCG Premier IQ with U/G list. Many artifacts, 2 Trinket Mages and 2 copies of Flusterstorm main.
Excellent to see people doing well with their own takes!Quote:
Originally Posted by Postman
I find it interesting that my current Maindeck list is 2 cards apart from this, being 2 maindeck swan songs. Convergent evolution? Or Mr Smolinski has a feed into my computer!
If he is around I am very interested in his matchups.
Hey, Smolinski here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
Good to see this thread is still kicking, when I first picked up post a year ago it helped me quite a bit with making the original list.
I too had swan songs main, but found I often wanted a more powerful counter when fighting over show and tells or maps. Swan song also felt awkward with my sideboard chalices. With flusterstorm I still get the copies.
As for the event, I managed to go 5-0-1 in the Swiss, followed by an ID into top 8. Most of my matchups fell into the "favorable but scary" camp. In order, I played against Standstill Merfolk, Miracles, Shardless Bug (draw), D&T, Chalice Merfolk, and Burn. The top 8 was littered with favorable matchups, with the only two decks I was unhappy to see being Aggro Loam and Aluren. Unfortunately, Aluren blew me out of the water in the semifinals.
Typing all this on my phone, will be happy to answer questions once I get back on a proper keyboard.
So I think I played against pox for the first time ever this evening. Ok eldrazi wizards, what is the plan against sinkhole into hymn into bitter blossom into nether void? I don't think I've ever got Rick rolled as bad as I did tonight. The matchup seemed abysmal, at best.
Avoid Fate?Quote:
Originally Posted by maCHOOga
It only targets Sinkhole; spell pierce or swan song are better because they hit all the aforementioned spells.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkenslight
Pithing Needle for Liliana and Wasteland, Flusterstorms for Sinkhole/discard/Smallpox.Quote:
Originally Posted by maCHOOga
Let them get greedy with liliana +1, repeal in response, make them cry.
Tefei's Response, Sacred Ground, Draw lots of land, show and tell - primetime. Pox is terrible against 12 post. When I was running pox, I would rather play against omni-tell, storm, etc. Show and tell into Titan is nigh unwinnable.
Play Nic Fit?Quote:
Originally Posted by maCHOOga
We play more land than even pox does, the UG players have access to show and tell which can be really tough for a pox player to come back from if you show in a titan. Always go for titan off show if you have the option. I have been on the wrong side of that play way too many times to count. You have to remember that pox generally has an extremely slow clock with very little card advantage or card selection. You have access to brainstorm, map, show and tell to more than make up for any type of advantage they may get while they struggle to close a game. Gaining even 5 life off of glimmerposts can buy you so much time when you are getting beaten by a lone factory, scroll or nether spirit. Some times pox will get lucky and your top decks will be shit, but most of the time pox is slow enough and lacks the card selection to actually keep you down long enough to kill you.
Don't worry, I got the prosbloom nicfit black vise deck out of my system already. Yeah that happened....Quote:
Originally Posted by moseby
After everyones feedback, I feel like I boarded completely boarded incorrectly, but that's what the weekly events are for.
For all those heading to GP SeaTac, may the odds be ever in your favor!
How did you board if I may ask?Quote:
Originally Posted by maCHOOga
Obstinate Baloth is a very good option against Liliana/HTT decks.
- 3 force of willQuote:
Originally Posted by mykatdied
+1 relic of progenitors
+1 engineered explosives
+1 venser, shaper savant
Failed to bring in flusterstorms & krosan grip. Likewise, I'm ready to start playing Flusterstorm over FoW main...I just gotta find one more. Lol
Out of the things you boarded I'm not a fan of venser. Mostly just because 1 Wasteland can keep you off double blue and he dies to scroll. Which may or may not be relevant. Ee is great and flusterstorm is nice as well. If you have spell pierce that usually gets there. grip is likely better than venser and that should probably come in.Quote:
Originally Posted by maCHOOga
I have been having great success with gitaxian probe, repeal, pithing needle, ugin main.
List posted after Saturday when I have a local event
Are people moving away from Trinkbind and back to Pithing Needle post-dig ban? They both have their advantages, and it's especially nice to have trickbind against wasteland blue decks. However, I usually find (with delver decks in particular) if they have a wasteland in their opener, they will try to use it as soon as possible- within reason. So the fact that trickbind costs 2 and not 1 is a big deal, especially when you don't have a crop rotation. Honestly I never seem to draw trickbind at the right times (right after getting wastelanded or in matchups where it's irrelevant) so I suppose it's given me a personal bias against the card. I think I'm probably going back to needle.
Unfortunately there's a lot of RUG delver in my meta and they bring in ancient grudge for needle. I haven't found a good way to win the RUG, and even BUG delver matchups. Relic of Progenitus pulls some weight, but last Wednesday I drew two of them while I got double wastelanded and he flipped 2 delvers. I was super dead. Repeal buys you a turn against delver, and that's not enough so they usually wind up killing me anyway. I've tried dismember but the 4 life loss is liability and you're really just playing into their hands. After that it becomes easier for them to bolt/deathrite you out. Does anybody have some sideboard tech for Delver decks?
There's something I wanted to question (I searched the thread but didn't come up with anything about this), and that's the usage of Brainstorm over Ponder. Yes, I get that Brainstorm is the sacred cow of the format and that you have to play it if you're playing blue etc. However, in a deck with anywhere from 8-12 shuffle effects (5 more if you count Primeval titan and eye but that's really stretching it) I've found it to be an underwhelming card. It's usually just draw 3, put two back... then draw those two anyway on your next two turns. That's great if it helps you sequence your turns a little bit better but not as good as ponder in my opinion. Most of the time to get your blue source of mana you have to use your only fetch, so you usually wont have a spare misty for the shuffle effect. Expedition map I would count as a legitimate shuffle effect, but there's no guarantee the time you want to brainstorm coincides with the time you want to crack map. There's reasons for doing one or the other and not necessarily both one after the other for the shuffle. Perhaps you want to wait on cracking the map until you get more information. There's a thousand different reasons for wanting to hold a brainstorm. That brings us to crop rotation. Crop Rotation is a miserable card but a necessary evil. It's something I rarely cast against blue decks unless I know they have no countermagic, I'll win if it resolves, or am responding to a wasteland. Crop rotation is something that usually rots in my hand against blue decks unless I'm about to die and am forced to do something. I don't run crop rotation out there to get two for oned/stone rained just because I wanted a shuffle effect for my Brainstorm.
So I hope I've made a decent case against Brainstorm in this specific deck. Maybe someone could illuminate me as to why it is the cantrip of choice in the deck. Yes, I get there are plenty of clunkers you don't want to draw in specific matchups, but the shuffle effect is not a sure thing a majority of the time.
Trickbind has been my pet card for a very long time. I personally favor it for three reasons: split second, having hits in virtually all matches, and the fact that it betrays no information until used. Especially on the play, hitting a fetch against a tempo deck can be back breaking. It's a much more reliable out Game 1 against Storm. It can Time Walk a Sneak and Skill player. It stops Craterhoof Behemoth. And so on. And until it's used, it's an unknown card in your hand that your opponent has to think about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecstatic_Conch
Of course, Pithing Needle has its advantages too. It can come down early and it just continually stops whatever you need it to stop. Its application isn't quite as broad, but it typically lasts longer. The downside is that it gives your opponent information to play around, and your opponent can also specifically bring in cards to address it.
I'm not you and I don't play like you, but if you find Wasteland to be constantly blowing you out, look at some of your early keeps and decisions. Pithing Needle is much stronger on the draw than on the play against an unknown opponent. If you're slamming Needle on the first turn and blind-naming Wasteland, you're taking a huge risk both in guessing wrong and something like turn 1 Sensei's Divining Top is generally much stronger. Likewise, if you're leading with turn 1 Cloudpost on the draw, you're also making a big mistake, as your opponent can Wasteland you and still develop a board (especially true with BUG). I have a love-hate relationship with Needle in general, but unless you absolutely know your opponent, you probably shouldn't be playing it until your second turn anyway, at which point Trickbind is also live.
There are also considerations on what else is in your deck. As an example, with a Trinket Mage package, Needle is more appealing. Your mileage may vary.
Elephant Grass, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Engineered Explosives (often with Trinket Mage), Maze of Ith, and any sweepers or stalls from Moment's Peace to All is Dust to Ugin, the Spirit Dragon are all considerations. Alternatively, a little extra countermagic can work, as especially RUG falls hard to pretty much any creature you put into play off a Show and Tell.Quote:
Unfortunately there's a lot of RUG delver in my meta and they bring in ancient grudge for needle. I haven't found a good way to win the RUG, and even BUG delver matchups. Relic of Progenitus pulls some weight, but last Wednesday I drew two of them while I got double wastelanded and he flipped 2 delvers. I was super dead. Repeal buys you a turn against delver, and that's not enough so they usually wind up killing me anyway. I've tried dismember but the 4 life loss is liability and you're really just playing into their hands. After that it becomes easier for them to bolt/deathrite you out. Does anybody have some sideboard tech for Delver decks?
I know Tim Harding used to run Ponder alongside Brainstorm, but I can't imagine very many reasons to take out Brainstorm short of running BoozeCube's list. Don't forget that Brainstorm also has synergy with Top: sometimes you don't have to draw those cards again even without a shuffle.Quote:
There's something I wanted to question (I searched the thread but didn't come up with anything about this), and that's the usage of Brainstorm over Ponder. Yes, I get that Brainstorm is the sacred cow of the format and that you have to play it if you're playing blue etc. However, in a deck with anywhere from 8-12 shuffle effects (5 more if you count Primeval titan and eye but that's really stretching it) I've found it to be an underwhelming card. It's usually just draw 3, put two back... then draw those two anyway on your next two turns. That's great if it helps you sequence your turns a little bit better but not as good as ponder in my opinion. Most of the time to get your blue source of mana you have to use your only fetch, so you usually wont have a spare misty for the shuffle effect. Expedition map I would count as a legitimate shuffle effect, but there's no guarantee the time you want to brainstorm coincides with the time you want to crack map. There's reasons for doing one or the other and not necessarily both one after the other for the shuffle. Perhaps you want to wait on cracking the map until you get more information. There's a thousand different reasons for wanting to hold a brainstorm. That brings us to crop rotation. Crop Rotation is a miserable card but a necessary evil. It's something I rarely cast against blue decks unless I know they have no countermagic, I'll win if it resolves, or am responding to a wasteland. Crop rotation is something that usually rots in my hand against blue decks unless I'm about to die and am forced to do something. I don't run crop rotation out there to get two for oned/stone rained just because I wanted a shuffle effect for my Brainstorm.
So I hope I've made a decent case against Brainstorm in this specific deck. Maybe someone could illuminate me as to why it is the cantrip of choice in the deck. Yes, I get there are plenty of clunkers you don't want to draw in specific matchups, but the shuffle effect is not a sure thing a majority of the time.
Also think about the instant-speed aspect of Brainstorm. You can obviously do it on your opponent's turn. You can use it to hide key spells from discard or Gitaxian Probe. Also think about how many blue and green sources you see in a game. You might only have a Locus or two and a single Trop as a colored source in the early game. If you Ponder, your opponent knows your ability to interact that turn is entirely limited to whatever you currently have on the battlefield. Wasteland is now live. Discard probably resolves, or at the very least is going to cost you two cards. For a combo deck, the gates are open, your shields are down.
Your point on Crop Rotation is well-taken, and is actually another really good reason to run Brainstorm, as it's the only way to safely get multiples out of your hand. Nonetheless, here are some other things you can try with the card:
1. With a Show and Tell in hand and an extra colored source, try rotating to see if you can draw out a counterspell. If it resolves, get a locus or Eye. Regardless, try to Show next turn.
2. Try to draw out counters/raise Storm count for a surprise Flusterstorm. Say your opponent casts something threatening. Respond with a Crop Rotation. Depending on the opponent, I've had this response draw out a counterspell. This might mean three Flusterstorms, and if the threat your opponent cast was an instant or sorcery, you may be able to counter both spells.
3. With excess Loci, skip the Titan path and go get Eye.
4. If you're really, really hurting, it's a shuffle effect if you have extra colored sources lying around.
As always, your mileage may vary. In any case, the best bet is to look hard at your opening plays as well as the other cards that are around these other, seemingly innocuous card choices.
How do you guys feel about the new commander card Anachrorage in the sideboard in place of Moment's Peace?
Could be awesome against random Empty the Warrens.
Lähetetty minun D6603 laitteesta Tapatalkilla
Ok, thanks for the constructive reply. Thanks for the tips too, I don't have a tabernacle but I can for sure try elephant grass. Another card I've considered is drop of honey, but the expense of the card is driving me away from it because it's not a sure bet. I run 4 repeal and 2 moment's peace right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotmaster
Trickbind also increases the blue count for force of will, another thing in its favor.
As far as wasteland is concerned, I'm usually not running my cloudposts out there immediately unless I know they don't play wasteland. Sometimes you have to make your land drops though, the deck needs lots of mana and you can't just hold lands forever fearing wasteland. I'm doing what I can to not get wastelanded out, but sometimes they have multiple or I don't draw my answers. Then the game becomes pretty tough. I'm still new to the U/G version so there's a lot to learn. I've had to mulligan quite a bit (openers with glacial chasm, vesuva with nothing to copy, and eye) and I'm still learning the deck.
John Kassari 9-0, could he possibly be on 12 post
GW post. Saw him crush a painter player in the 9th round and moonwalk away from the table. It was amazing.Quote:
Originally Posted by caw_86
I've been following his daily twelve post stream for weeks now. It's glorious, he has such a streamlined list. I've completed the same 75 it works like a charm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emrakul503
Mind posting this list.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hencules
I played G/W Post in the GP Legacy side event yesterday and went undefeated. I think G/W is really strong. Although admittedly, I've never played the U/G version.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Let's see the list! Hoping to trade in my other deck for it today.Quote:
Originally Posted by drude1
I think he posted a page or 2 back with his list. Username ehhhQuote:
Originally Posted by Emrakul503
My list is much different than Ehhhhh's. Although I do like a lot of what he is doing as well. I just don't like Oracles. Anyway, this is what I am playing:
4 X Primeval Titan
1 X Kosilek
1 X new Ulamog
1 X Emrakul
4 X crop rotation
4 X expedition map
2 X candelabra
3 X pithing needle
4 X top
1 X ancient stirrings
1 X oblivion stone
4 X terminus
2 X Ugin
4 X cloudpost
4 X glimmerpost
2 X vesuva
4 X forest
4 X windswept heath
1 X tabernacle
1 X maze of ith
1 X glacial chasm
1 X bojuka bog
1 X thespians stage
1 X karakas
2 X Savannah
1 X cavern of souls
1 X eye of Ugin
SB
2 X grafdiggers cage
3 X mindbreak trap
3 X Canonist
4 X leyline of sanctity
3 X krosan grip
I would like to incorporate the green sun's zenith so would maybe shave a couple of the one of's and 1-2 maps. I had cages in SB for grave and elf hate but would consider changing those to surgical, as I had a hard time with wasteland + Loam. Otherwise, this deck performs really well.
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John Kassari's list, about half way down
http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/c...sts-2015-11-08
I like Terminus in a deck like post, it's a great defensive card that a lot of time is better than glacial chasm. What do you think to add a Scroll Rack to remove a useless terminus in hand? I tried it in the past with my gw build, 3 sensei + 1 scroll, it was not bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by drude1
http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/c...sts-2015-11-08
This is the List - Unfortunately I only made 41st place or something like that (had a rough day 2 losing to > 2 Shardless Bug in game 3, 4c Delver w/ PoP [amazing start vs garbage start] and then losing to Death and Taxes w/ Magus of the Moon [Also should've won game 1 with 7 top looks to find 5 or 6 outs and no land in my deck]
I'll answer any questions tomorrow i just got home and i'm going to watch some football after work :P
my buddy also was undefeated [Fred] with the Goblin Moon Deck we dodged each other throughout the tournament .. very lucky lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emrakul503
LoL hell YAAAA !!! I crop rotated every time he targeted my forest with PyroBlast hahaha at least 3 times, and Painter + Ugin combo.. later land :D he got Ugin'd twice hahaa
Is there a chance to watch your match in round 10 (?) against BUG again? Stream quality wasn't perfect, but it looked like you had 5 lands in play, All is Dust in Hand, played Eye of Ugin and passed the turn...?
yeah I messed up, I think but he still had FoW the entire time (was told) forsure a punt. but I think he drew above average in games 2 and 3 and my draws were sloppy and slow, like pulse on leyline g2 was insane (almost beat a lilly ulti)Quote:
Originally Posted by Postman
RUG delver is a tricky animal, you always need to play around stifle when fetching. Cracking fetches early for the basics is the safest plan. Likewise, there is a huge advantage to bojuka bogging them. All you need to do is resolve a primetime and they can't win. They have 0 ways to actively kill it when in play, other than burning you out. They are going to bring in Krosan grips and ancient grudges against you. Also, sometimes they have a delver nut draw, it happens. Another way to combat them is to flusterstorm their cantrips. One early timed counterspell can buy you enough time to make it to the end game. As mentioned, Ugin can get them too, but he can also be stifled! honestly the best way to beat them is to playtest against it, or swap decks with a rug delver play and play some games. You will get a better understanding on how their deck functions if you actually play with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecstatic_Conch
I've been playing 2x ponder for quite sometime to help lower the brainstorm/toplock scenarios. I had a discussion at EE3 and I don't think it's what we want. The sorcery speed of it opens you up to a wasteland. I feel that at the core, this deck wants to be: trinkets, big idiots, show and tell and instants. I loved playing 1x fact or fiction but it doesn't work well with the new Ulamog. The other thing to note is playing ponders, only adds to pain caused by chalice of the void.
He absolutly drew great! :-( But the games were still good, and 9-0 on day 1: great performance! :-))) congrats
I was the black guy with the curly hair wearing all black standing over your shoulder all weekend. Circle of Protection + Leyline of Sanctity vs Burn was also disgustingQuote:
Originally Posted by Ehhh