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I haven't played this deck (or any other w/o brainstorm) for like 2y. what happened to the fetid Heath/urborg mana base? I'm thinking of a hymn/revoker/bob/SFM/mirran/elspeth build with a G splash for DRS, decay, and some sideboard options. isolated chapel is neat and all, but urborg is awesome with wasteland and fetches
My mana base has been fine with the normal fetch/dual base. As long as you arent trying to run crazy triple black, double white and such it works.
good. I've always been more of a diabolical edict than gatekeeper of malakir kind of guy. is there really only room for 1-2 Abrupt Decay?
I think Gatekeeper is still a really good card. I would be playing it, but I wanted to try a slightly different list. I was going to play decay, but I figured Vindicate would be better since it hits stuff like Jace and other random larger permanents. I do play Choke in the SB though off of my 1 BayouQuote:
Originally Posted by warfordium
Edit: for anyone who cares I 3-1'd my local and top 4 split prize with the same list from the other night.
R1: BUG Countertop 2-0
I just Scullered all of his good spells like jace and Liliana takes him to town with my Thoughtseize bears. G2 He kept a 1 lander with DRS, I on the draw Swords his DRS. He doesnt play a land. I Waste his bayou. He dies. Fwiw I mulled to 5 both games
R2: Death and Taxes
G1 he keeps a double Karakas SIngle plains hand. I DRS on T1 and Sculler his Flickerwisp T2. Vindicate his Plains to force him to Sac his own karakas off of the second one just to cast thalia. Then to make sure after draw step a turn later I build my own VClique by Resto Angeling my Sculler. G2 He has 2 Moms and an Aven Mindcensor our while I have Bob, SFM and DRS. I sandbag the Zealous persecution and take him to town.
R3: Maverick
G1 I dont remember well. I had to mull down to 6 and its not amazing and he just grinds me out and gets Jitte Online. G2 I have a solid hand and he doesnt have much, but he has triple wasteland and I just cant ever find a second land to start playing all of the 2's and 3's stuck in my hand.
R4: BUG Food Chain
G1 I just race him while he can't ever really get a solid foothold and board presence. G2 he decays my T1 DRS, Golgari Charms my T2 Bob, but doesnt answer my T3 Bob. I draw a bunch but am still worried, he taps out for some stuff, I flip Choke off of Bob. His board of 2 Tapped USeas and 2 Tapped Trops gets choked out.
Overall again the deck was sweet. Still had some mana issues that I would like to resolve somehow. Kept a lot of loose 1 landers with DRS hoping to get there. Probably dropping the second vindicate to cut to 60. I may add back up to 61 though to play like an Urborg or maybe just another fetch. SB again, I'm dropping the 2nd ETutor. Probably KGrip as well for Disenchant and another RIP. Kinda want to find room for the second disenchant.
My 2 favorite hate bears in revoker and Sculler did a lot of work as usual. Great great cards.
Okay, I feel a bit stupid regarding restoration angel... Is it solely for Sculler and perhaps Mystic shenanigans or is there any obvious play that I just don´t see? And doesn´t the enemy get his card back once Sculler is exiled? So it´s purely for picking another card from his hand?
I mean, sure, a 3/4 flying with flash is neat to have all by itself, but asides?
You aren't wrong. Not saying it is right or anything, but it's been my for fun card. Probably just should be a brimaz or something
There's also the fact that most non-white fair decks decks can't really deal with a 4 mana 3/4 amusingly enough. Can't be decayed/bolted, blocks Delver, kills Liliana, etc.
Additionally it can serve to save your creatures from removal. It's a fairly versatile creature.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrio
Yeah it's fine. I would recommend it or say that it is what someone should play. I just am doing it for fun. Doesn't seem bad though
Angel is interesting. A flash creature that is value town with say Stoneforge and can save a dude from targeted removal.
But LOL, it's at the 4 mana slot and for me that's already occupied by Hero of Bladehold. She's won me plenty of games, usually in 2 turns when she hits the battlefield.
I think the same, I would rather play something else. I've just never been a fan of restoration angel in general. I tried to play that card many times in all sorts of u/w stoneblade variants, and the card just never clicked with me, always finding it too much trouble for what it's worth if you want to set up a 2 for one (or a 3 for one). i think if you want to play it, it should be seen as a 3/4 flash flying for 4, and the rest is pretty much a bonus (which is not bad at all if that's what you are on the market for).Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilkin
If I wanted a 4 mana card in my deck, i would probably be leaning towards one of the 4 mana planeswalker (elspeth, sorin). And now that you mention it, Hero of bladehold seems very decent too.
Yeah I would like to try out sorin at some point. He seems fun. And with souls he sounds sweet. Like I said, I wouldn't recommend Angel to anyone. I just think it's a fun card. I have alternatively been thinking of playing 2 Revokers in the angels place. Am I just becoming a bad death and taxes deck at that point?
LOL, post sideboard I feel like a death and Taxes variant too. I've got Revokers, Thalia and Gaddock Teeg in board.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
Oh hey if Angel works for you great. Everyone has their favorites. Shriekmaw and Hero are mine.
Sorin is ok too. I personally feel Elspeth is better with the +3/+3 flying. But one thing Sorin has going for it is you will probably use his ultimate. You aren't likely to use Elspeth's ultimate that much. If my meta was more Miracles, I'd test out Elspeth instead of Hero.
My meta actually does happen to have around 3 miracles decks per week. Elspeth is probably good. And that is my concern is to become a watered down D&T, but my post board games have been very good so far and I find myself boarding in Revokers almost every match up.
It's fine! We all have our fun cards! Speaking of Sorin, I did play him in the past in Maverick, and I did not hate him. The tokens were actually not bad because they were black vampires (dodged engineered plague and dread of night) and the emblems suddenly allowed my 1/1s to race (I can imagine this get even stronger with lingering souls). I personally think that Elspeth is better, but in my experience Sorin was not bad at all as an alternative (the main reason why i played him instead of elspeth was because I wasn't sure i had a stable enough manabase to hit WW, so after i was certain I could have all my colors AND WW, I ended up cutting him for elspeth).Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
Oh, and I got to reanimate a Chandra pyromaster, a painter's servant and an imperial recruter with him in a sanctioned match, and it was awesome!!! (I just had to throw that out there).
Reanimate a Chandra Pyromaster?? How did you manage to do that?Quote:
Originally Posted by ThediscoPower
Megadeus. Yeah I find I board in my Revokers quite a bit. Sneak attack, Aether Vial, Grindstone, Lion's Eye Diamond etc. So many juicy targets.
Most fair-deck players would easily recognize that G is your splash color, then waste your G duallands.Quote:
Originally Posted by warfordium
1 Green dualland is often not enough to support Abrupt decays. 2 is ok.
Personally, I replaced Urborg with 3rd green duals(just before Bayou take price rocket), with 2 Decays maindeck.
You can't name LED as it's a mana ability. I agree that revoker is good, probably even MD material, just not storm/dredge hate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilkin
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
Revoker CAN name a card with mana abilities (provided of course that it's a non land card) and it does shut it off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
Pithing Needle is the non-mana activated abilities.
sorin ultimate. it targets plainswalkers too. I should've said kill-reanimate tho.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilkin
Yep. Revoker shuts down LED, Mox Diamond, Lotus Petal, Noble Hierarc. All that good stuff as well as jace, lily, and all that good stuff. Only thing that it really can't stop is thespian stage. Card is definitely solid. I am testing 2 MD now in place of a restoration Angel and a hymn to tourach
I might actually move the opposite direction. Lately I just keep running into RUG and feeling like my two Revokers main are just dead, and I don't know that I've ever sided the third one in. At the same time I'm not really sure what I'd replace them with, probably the 4th Sculler and something else that's x/2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
Is Restoration Angel more valuable for its body, or its etb? If the latter, isn't Cloudshift always just better? I see that it's kind of just a fun card, just curious mostly - but the idea of recurring SFM or Sculler or any good creature that has an ETB effect is appealing imho
sent from phone, don't be a dick
I play it more for a non decayable, non bolt/pfire able, flash, flying body that can kill a jace if they don't +2 it. The blink effect is simply icing. If I really wanted a flicker effect I would play flickerwisp. Being immune to the most popular non white removal spells while flying over a ground stall or killing a walker is really why I like it. And again, I'm not saying it is right. Simply what I want to play with.
As for revoker, my meta generally every deck has at least 1 decent target. Not much RUG delver here so it is generally pretty good, and having a game 1 way to shut down top from miracles seems like something I want
Word. It does OHKO Jace doesn't it? Didn't even notice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
I feel strangely obligated to point out that Restoration Angel will instantly flip Exalted Angel. Not that this is by any means amazing - and would make the deck very top-heavy. But I have pet cards too, haha
sent from phone, don't be a dick
Ah gotcha. When you say Reanimate, that threw me off. I was thinking...you know Reanimate, the spell. Then I was thinking...is there a way to change the type of a card in the Graveyard? lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThediscoPower
People tend to mix up Phyrexian Revoker and Pithing Needle quite often. I saw a match last weekend where it happened twice. Someone tried to name Marsh Flats with Revoker and then in another instance an opponent has no lands but a chrome mox....thoughtseizes his opponent and doesn't take the Revoker. Opponent then plays the Revoker and names Chrome Mox, shutting it down.
Indeed. I'm glad people don't fully understand how good revoker is. I've had plenty of games so far be t2 sculler your removal spell, revoke your top (vs miracles) and suddenly their deck is real badQuote:
Originally Posted by Wilkin
Considering testing Pack Rat. Minimal Sweepers in the format, turns every bad top decks into pack rat if left alone will take over the game. Just like it does in standard.
The list I'm working on keeps oscillating between Junk/Rock and deadguy. This is what came to me tonight:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Blade Splicer
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Read the Bones
1 Batterskull
1 umezawa's jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
4 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
3 Scrubland
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bayou
2 Windswept Heath
2 Swamp
1 Plains
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Rest in Peace
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Pithing Needle
1 Karakas
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Gaddock Teeg
I love lingering souls, but it was mucking with my ability to sideboard. I really want Thalia and RiP and Souls sucks with both. Then it hit me: Blade Splicer does a lot of what I want to get from Souls. It produces multiple bodies and 4 power from one card. No evasion though. So I'm trying Ajani: it's cute, but 1) I don't have Elspeth 2) Even if I did, 4 mana is a lot 3) double strike + any of the equipment is so spicy. Coming down t2 and growing the DRS into a legit threat doesn't suck either. And of course it jumps a Golem into 6 power in the air. Then they have to remove it or the golem just gets bigger.
On the hunt for a Savannah and a Top to replace a Bayou and Read the Bones, if not I run with this Monday.
Deck seems fine. 2 points though. Never tried WW1 Ajani before. With a creature on board he's great.....as a top deck on empty board it's kinda meh.Quote:
Originally Posted by maharis
And Read the Bones is interesting. Hmmm.....IMO it would be better off being either a Sensei's Divining Top or a Phyrexian Arena.
He did say he would replace Read with a Top if he could get one.
And Blade Splicer is interesting (especially with Resto Angel :wink: ) but the other reason souls is so good because against blue decks, not only do they have to kill 2 men if it resolves, but it also must be countered by 2 spells. Not saying Splicer is necessarily bad, but just citing the strength of souls. Also Splicer isnt quite as good vs Jace, tarmogoyf, or TNN unfortunately.
I actually landed on the Splicer idea while thinking about potential Resto Angel shenanigans after reading your posts. Kitchen Finks also crossed my mind — resetting that mid-combat and getting a 3/4 flyer seems pretty good. I felt Finks was too susceptible to StP though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
The thing about Splicer & counters is that it only really dies to FoW and Daze and isn't hit by Flusterstorm or Spell Pierce. Daze you can play around easily, and Force still two-for-ones them.
I have lots of other ways to deal with a Goyf, and if I have a Splicer, that's the kind of board presence I don't mind representing since I can swing back against a 4/5 Goyf and stay even. If it's bigger, I can just chump with the Splicer and swing back for 3 with the golem, potentially getting ahead.
Vs. TNN, my plan even with souls was to use equipment to get ahead from behind. Before, if I had 3+ Souls tokens vs. a board with nothing but TNN (so that i can stay ahead of their crackbacks), I probably was going to win even if that was one golem. If they are holding TNN back to block, that gives me time to find SoFI and stick it to something. Meanwhile, I'm less susceptible to Spell Pierce/Flusterstorm and my own Thalias postboard.
It's clearly more difficult to deal with Jace, but I have discard, Oblivion Ring, and Wasteland to make it hard to land it. Postboard Thalia, Revoker, Needle all come into play.
That's a fair point. I'm not gonna tell someone to not play a card. It doesn't seem terrible. A dedicated restoration Angel deck seems fun ;)
Though not as fun as a deaths shadow dead guy deck I've been brewing
TBH, it looks like your list is a little all over the place. I'd cut all the 1-ofs (besides equipment), because you don't have any real card selection (I count Bob as advantage, but not selection). I'd cut the Therapies too because you aren't really running a creature base that wants to take advantage of them, and 8 discard plus 3 Lili is going to leave you with a bunch of dead draws in the mid/late game. If you're really wanting to run Thalia from the board, I'd replace all that stuff with some utility creatures. Sculler, Revoker, the 4th SFM, hell maybe even Goyf since you don't really have much in the way of offense/defense right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by maharis
I'd also seriously look at ditching Splicer for something with more impact. A 3/3 with no evasion for 3 just isn't going to do much for your board position, and the 1/1 is basically negligible. Serra Avenger, Brimaz, Goyf, Mirran Crusader, all solid choices. Maybe even Hero of Bladehold if you're losing some of the 3-drops.
Lastly, I'm pretty sure Zealous Persecution is far better than Toxic Deluge for this deck.
Reading over that, it all comes of harsher than I intended, but I was basically in the same place with the deck several months ago, and I've had much, much better results since abandoning the idea that I need to have an answer for every situation maindeck and just focusing on having an actual plan for winning rather than just reacting to everything. I'm not saying my specific build is the best, but I really think that in colors without good draw filtering, you really need to design for consistency and focus.
OTOH, if you're putting up results...don't change anything!
no offense taken. I'm testing a lot of different builds of decks the next few weeks in preparation for an SCG, just trying to figure out how certain things work in certain situations. There are some cards that I agree I want. Trouble is, I can't get my hands on Goyfs (been offering 8x scalding tarn for a set for a while, no one has taken me up). Brimaz is probably the right answer but I'm waiting on it until I see where it settles pricewise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Cheese
I like Mirran Crusader, but I don't know how much B/G to expect and it just dies to bolt/stp for nothing too often. Have you ever tested Blade Splicer? Honest question — i saw a little chat about it upthread but not much. It's almost always a two-for-one barring Stifle, and it does at least give you some value if the big guy is removed to block or stick a sword on. I also thought I would be able to sacrifice the splicer to Cabal Therapy, but I just might make the Therapies Hymns. (I do love the extra turn 1 play against combo though).
I'll check back in Monday and tell you you were right, I'm sure
I'm partial to Crusader, but then I'm also running Moms. Immunity to Decay and the ability to swing past Goyf, Germ Tokens, Mongeese, etc. is pretty huge, and double strike with equipment just gets really silly, Jitte and SoFi especially.Quote:
Originally Posted by maharis
Sacrificing blade splicer to therapy just sounds dope. Yeah the reason I have been cutting hymns is simply because between 4 thought seize, 3 sculler, and 3 Liliana, I have a lot of discard and top decking hymn makes me sad. Same goes for therapy. I like sculler and lily because they aren't terrible late game.
Also I'll probably just be cutting a souls for the second Angel to come back. It's probably terrible, but I don't care
If you're just saccing it to Therapy, you might as well run Doomed Traveler. I think a 1/1 flyer is generally more useful in an equipment deck than a vanilla 3/3.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
Thats probably true. BW Humans anyone? I wanna try a Deadguy shell with Xathrid Necromancer too... So many shells to testQuote:
Originally Posted by Richard Cheese