[Deck] Dredge

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Originally Posted by 264505

@ kabards-I don't think it was any better than Max McCall's article. The 2 he did were excellent intros to the deck.

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Do you by any chance have the links?

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Originally Posted by kabards

usually during sideboarding how many SB's do you usually put in and put out? ex. vs Aggro Zoo and UW Stoneblade? im just new here piloting dredge

The Source requires proper grammar, punctuation, capitalization, and sentence structure. Adjust your posting habits.

-zilla

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against Zoo I try to board as few as possible. Normally only 2 or 3 ancient grudges and maybe a dredge return target. If you don't suspect gaddock teeg you might also board a dread return for an ichorid, so you can race the Zoo player. You could board out a putric imp (if you play 8 dorks) a breakthrough a land and a Tug ore something.

UW stoneblade board in at least 4 ancient grudges. It hits their hate and batterskull. You could board terestadon or something to shoot down Jace, but normally you won't need it, and it's hard to resolve Dread Return. I normally board out dread return a breakthrough a land and darkblast

.Benie.

I think he means this 2 Articles:

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...cy_Dredge.html

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...urnaments.html

...and just in case if you don't find the Feldman Article:
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...Dredge_Fu.html

@ Benie:
Boarding out lands sounds like a pretty weak idea if you want to bring in Grudges (i.e. cards that definitly need a rainbow land).
But then again it allways depends on the build.

@ Karbas:
Like Benie said you don't need to side in a lot against Zoo / UW StoneBlade, Grundges are usually enough. You should also , if possible, watch your opponent while Sideboarding, because a good load of player will do you a favor and show how many cards they bring in.

And for the love of christ can we please stop to discuss the Feldman article? ( I believe that everyone has his own opinion about the content and discussing whether or not it's true/false wont change anyones opinion on the subject).

About Max McCall's article: He said Firestorm has no slot in the 75, but admitted the difficult of the Merfolk match. This sounds strange to me, what do you guys think?
Also, he choose to play Chain of Vapor over Nature's Claim, probably because of the Coliseum factor, which sounds fair.
Anyway, I'm looking for a generic sideboard for a standard 8 dorks-list with 3 Thugs and 1 Darkblast. What I've got so far:

3x Firestorm
3x Ancient Grudge
3x Ray of Revelation
1x Ichorid
1x Angel of Despair
1x FKZ
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Dread Return
1x Sadistic Hypnotist

I choose not to run Nature's Claim/Chain of Vapor because I'd need 4 slots, so I decided to run 3 Ray of Revelation to fight Leyline.
The extra Dread Return is to assure I can put either FKZ or Hypnotist against Tendrils.
Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Mojeh

About Max McCall's article: He said Firestorm has no slot in the 75, but admitted the difficult of the Merfolk match. This sounds strange to me, what do you guys think?
Also, he choose to play Chain of Vapor over Nature's Claim, probably because of the Coliseum factor, which sounds fair.
Anyway, I'm looking for a generic sideboard for a standard 8 dorks-list with 3 Thugs and 1 Darkblast. What I've got so far:

3x Firestorm
3x Ancient Grudge
3x Ray of Revelation
1x Ichorid
1x Angel of Despair
1x FKZ
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Dread Return
1x Sadistic Hypnotist

I choose not to run Nature's Claim/Chain of Vapor because I'd need 4 slots, so I decided to run 3 Ray of Revelation to fight Leyline.
The extra Dread Return is to assure I can put either FKZ or Hypnotist against Tendrils.
Thoughts?

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Playtest a little more against Tendrils and you'll see that Cabal Therapy is wicked sick against it. That 3rd Dread Return isn't really necessary.

Well... the Article is written 1 month after Worldwake release, so probably no one has tested Nature's Claim that much. So he just played the Chain.

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Originally Posted by Mojeh

About Max McCall's article: He said Firestorm has no slot in the 75, but admitted the difficult of the Merfolk match. This sounds strange to me, what do you guys think?
Also, he choose to play Chain of Vapor over Nature's Claim, probably because of the Coliseum factor, which sounds fair.
Anyway, I'm looking for a generic sideboard for a standard 8 dorks-list with 3 Thugs and 1 Darkblast. What I've got so far:

3x Firestorm
3x Ancient Grudge
3x Ray of Revelation
1x Ichorid
1x Angel of Despair
1x FKZ
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Dread Return
1x Sadistic Hypnotist

I choose not to run Nature's Claim/Chain of Vapor because I'd need 4 slots, so I decided to run 3 Ray of Revelation to fight Leyline.
The extra Dread Return is to assure I can put either FKZ or Hypnotist against Tendrils.
Thoughts?

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Ray isn't good against Leyline. It costs 2 mana and its flashback is useless if they open on Leyline. I think I would drop the DR and Rays and run 4 Claims.

Also, black(the most typical color to run Leyline) has an easier time knocking ray out of your hand with a thoughtseize or hymn to tourach than Nature's Claim.

Yeah, Ray can be better against every other enchantment, but you guys are right about Leyline.
But what about Nature's Claim vs Chain of Vapor? Bounce a Leyline can do the same effect as destroying it, and using a blue mana can be much easier. Also, Chain of Vapor can deal with Marit Lage and Dreadnought, in addition.

I currently use chain of vapor over claim. It is never a dead card like claim. What I mean by that is chain of vapor has value if your opponent did not start with leyline and is racing you with a gofy or tombstalker.

Every now and then I wish the card was Nature's Claim though for the obvious reason of destroying items.

Hi all, this is the list I’m running right now:

Lands:
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
3 Tarnished Citadel

Dredge:
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Golgari Thug

Grave Shenanigans:
4 Bridge from Below
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Dread Return

Discard:
4 Putrid Imp
4 Tireless Tribe

Draw:
4 Breakthrough
4 Careful Study

Free Creatures:
4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba


Sideboard:
4 Ancient Grudge
4 Firestorm
4 Nature’s Claim
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Realm Razer
1 Sadistic Hypnotist

No Gitaxian Probe since I think that it’s good only in DDD route. And we’d like to be on the play against combo. Otherwise it’s less powerful than other spells, since you have to have it AND another draw spell in your opening hand. Also, I don’t think that the Peek ability overwhelms that negative point.

Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite to kill annoying creatures. Realm Razer for 43 lands (no answers here) and Sadistic Hypnotist (over Ancestor’s Chosen) for combo and stuff.

^ Pretty standard list you got there. You may want to switch out realm razor for something more utility like woodfall primus or testardon....elephant guy.

Also, test out darkblast over firestorm, you may enjoy it.

I know it's standard. Just pointing out the one I'm using. No Probe, no Gorian, 8 dorks etc...

You may be right about Terastodon, but lands may lock you in more than one way.

I've tested darkblast. It won't help you against merfolk. It won't discard cards, and you'll help him by killing yourself.

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Ray isn't good against Leyline. It costs 2 mana and its flashback is useless if they open on Leyline. I think I would drop the DR and Rays and run 4 Claims.

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I'll agree Claim is better than Ray. For sideboards with almost no space in them, Ray looks weak compared to Claim and Chain. In my opinion, building a sideboard with less than 8 anti-artifact/enchantment cards (a mix) is a giant mistake. You should have room for 2 Rays, no matter how you slice it.

The claim that Ray isn't good against Leyline is wrong. It is fantastic against Leyline. Even against Leyline decks, even after I deal with the Leyline(s) they open with, I want to flip over rays while dredging to make future Leylines (it will happen) merely a speed bump. Furthermore, Ray isn't used just for Leyline and Wheel. There are decks which have Ghostly Prison, Moat, Humility, Elephant Grass, etc. Ray allows you to dredge into the answer to these cards without actually opening/drawing into an answer.



peace,
4eak

I've been playing 4eak's DDD build with a little tweak in the new metagame, and I've had mixed feelings. I playtested with my friend, with his brand new Innistrad tuned Canadian Threshold deck, and I have to say that's a damned hard matchup.

You can't rely on DDD against them, because they have a stupidly fast clock in form of Delver of Secrets and Tarmogoyfs. AND, they can counter your stuff and Stifle your Coliseum/Ichorid triggers.

I don't know if it's just a bad matchup, or DDD plan isn't going to work against the new fast metagame, because Innistrad added lot of speed in control decks. Esper America now have Geist of Saint Traft and Snapcaster Mage, which are pretty huge at swinging and recovering Swords to Plowshares. Moreover, Tendrils decks just recieved a brand new bomb named Past in Flames.

If your local metagame becomes faster, I'd recommend to switch back to the 8-dork standard list, or maybe a LED one. If not, just keep playing DDD ones, because it's more resilient and doesn't fizzle too often.

Another thing I'd like to point out, is that Brainstorm is a hell of a good card to play in dredge. Dredging EOT or at upkeep is simply huge, mostly when you want to get your Ichorids online as fast as possible, or try some chumpblocking with Narcomoebas.

This is my new list:

Lands [14]
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
4 Cephalid Coliseum
2 Tarnished Citadel

Dorks [8]
4 Tireless Tribe
4 Putrid Imp

Dredgers [12]
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Golgari Thug
1 Darkblast

Dudes [7]
4 Narcomoeba
3 Ichorid

Draw [9]
4 Breakthrough
3 Careful Study
2 Brainstorm

Business [10]
4 Bridge from Below
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Dread Return

Sideboard [15]
4 Ancient Grudge
4 Nature's Claim
2 Ray of Revelation
1 Darkblast
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Angel of Despair
1 Ichorid

Any comments?

How offtin do you draw brainstorm? Does 2 cut it? If u relly want to draw why not play 3 or 4.

The only thing I can say to this list is:cut the brainstorms.
They suck.
Honestly, I don't know why with every ban-list update or new set , the same old cards get considered and eventually dismissed. Brainstorm does NOT belong in this deck because it does NOT do what we need.
I won't be surprised if someone mentions Entomb again...

Im playing the Feldman list in an event tomorrow
I have used it in previous events with success and I agree with the philosophy of the card choices
The only difference is that in the SB I will have a darkblast instead of the Blightsteel Colossus (this is a meta call because it's a small tournament and I don't think anybody will be using painter, previously in tournaments I have had difficulties against Peacekeeper and Gaddock Teeg)
Ill post a short report in the report section of the board to let you know how it goes

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Originally Posted by HokusSchmokus

The only thing I can say to this list is:cut the brainstorms.
They suck.
Honestly, I don't know why with every ban-list update or new set , the same old cards get considered and eventually dismissed. Brainstorm does NOT belong in this deck because it does NOT do what we need.
I won't be surprised if someone mentions Entomb again...

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Eh... What Brainstorm does not do? Discard cards? Uh, my list have 8-dorks, 4 Cabal Therapy and 3 Careful Study + DDD. Seems like a pretty amount of discard.

Brainstorm isn't nearly comparable to Breakthrough in all matters, but it DOES allow some tricks and might catch your foe unprepared, which is really fine in legacy.

Every control player are holding their Daze/FoW to your Breakthrough, because they know that's our strongest play. BUT, if you can trick them with a Brainstorm EOT, they might spend their countermagic on it. If not, you've just dredged 3 times for U.

Perhaps, you could give them a try before dismissing them, or just because some "pro" guy said it sucks, as you usually do (Oh, hi there Feldman Copycats!).

As for Entomb, we're not reanimator, that card simply sucks.

Has anybody tested grave titan as a win condition? I think it could worth!