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So guys, tomorrow I've got a 300+ tournament and I haven't decided in playing Merfolk or Elves.
If I had Intuition + Vengevines I would go straight for elves, but I still got my Living Wish (Priest + Archdruid) list, and although it does great, it's nothing compared to the new tech. On the other hand, my Merfolk are complete.
What do you guys think? What would you play?
Tomorrow they ban MM which sucks for the sea guys but is awesome for the forest dudes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NihilObstat
I would probably go with elves it is very underrated in my opinion. Also an unanswered elf deck can go off turn 2 or 3 and then just go nuts but then again it all depends on your build and what you expect to be there. and with MMS being banned that just made this deck wayyyyy better lol.
It's literally all about your skill level with the elf deck. Tho i wouldnt play it in a lavamancer heavy metagame.Quote:
Originally Posted by NihilObstat
Deck is very underrated because 90% of the pilots make the deck look like a joke. *shrug*
ps: if ur playing 7-8 discard spells in ur board u should probly find room for snapcaster mage too. double ts is pretty nuts and snapcaster gives you more opp for it.
I will be joining a 80+ pax tourney next week and i was hoping you can help me choose which cards should i remove when its sideboarding time. here's my decklist
3 genesis wave
3 staff of domination
3 glimpse of nature
1 concordant crossroads
4 e archdruid
4 priest of titania
4 wirewood symbiote
4 e visionary
2 llanowar e
2 fyndhorn e
3 birchlore rangers
4 quirion ranger
4 nettle sentinel
4 heritage druid
1 emrakul, the aeons torn
1 viridian zealot
7 forest
6 fetch
sb
3 krosan grip
3 pithing needle
2 viridian shaman
3 thorn of amethyst
2 tormod's crypt
2 relic of progenitus
top decks in our meta as of September: NO Rug, Maverick, Merfolk, Hive Mind, Bant, Dredge
your input is highly appreciated since i have limited time to playtest..thanks guys!
Read the previous posts.. No matter what ALWAYS run 4 glimpse of natures. what about Vexing shuhser in SB? It should help against the control decks. Also is the merfolk UB with EE and plague in SB? if it isn't don't be worried about the Merfolk match-up but if you see Underground sea game 1, put in the krosan grips. maybe even viridian for Jitte. Also Grip for hive mind deck. Griping in response to the pact trigger with hive mind really hearts your opponent. Bant has stoneforge and Jitte in it so you should SB in viridian shaman. Hope this helps.Quote:
Originally Posted by dakkonblackblade08
The advice I give to new Elves players with regards to sideboarding:
If your opponent is playing :w: or :b: aggro/control, board into Krosan Grip.
If your opponent is playing :u: or :b: control, board into Vengevine.
grip in response to hive mind copying pact doesn't do anything reallyQuote:
Originally Posted by Neil
I feel that with the banning of mental misstep, vengevine is unnecessary. I've recently gone back to a more traditional list of elves that focuses on the combo / elf swarming.
//Creatures: 31
4x Llanowar Elves
3x Arbor Elf
3x Priest of Titania
2x Elvish Archdruid
3x Heritage Druid
4x Nettle Sentinel
1x Viridian Zealot
1x Joraga Warcaller
3x Quirion Ranger
2x Wirewood Symbiote
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Regal Force
3x Elvish Visionary
//Spells: 14
4x Glimpse of Nature
4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Summoner's Pact
2x Crop Rotation
//Lands: 15
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Wirewood Lodge
1x Pendelhaven
13x Forest
//Sideboard: 15
4x Summoner's Pact
4x Elvish Champion
2x Krosan Grip
3x Relic of Progenitus
1x Viridian Shaman
1x Xantid Swarm
This build has been amazing for me so far, I don't have a lot of time to explain everything in it, it should all be pretty self explanatory, but most importantly--Wirewood Lodge and Pendelhaven (Grim lavamancer tech ftw?) are friggin awesome. The colorless of lodge has never hurt me, and it's untap effect has only strictly won me games over and over again.
@Kich867 Vengevine its still very useful in a lot of matches, its a must card..
Still waiting for theross thoughts on some new deck now that MM its banned. :)
Nothing in the deck needs to change, it's fine as it is right now. The only change that happened is MM being removed which allows this deck to operate better. The problem still exists that Storm combo may make a return which poses a threat to Elves in being faster. However, I don't believe that Storm combo will be much larger than 15% of the metagame and as a result leave this deck in a good position.Quote:
Originally Posted by Godmode
Quote:
Originally Posted by rukcus
Maybe ross' GP Providence list its the way to go. Sideboard 4 VV + 4BA + 4 Cabal Therapy looks good. But with all the SMystic based decks there is, Krosan Grip should be in there too. If the meta gets more storm combo oriented, some mindbreak traps in addition of the therapy looks good too.
I haven't played much Legacy recently, but in the wake of MM's banning, I doubt Elves will be a good choice until the new metagame adapts to the resurgence of other combo decks. I'm expecting ANT to be a large part of the new metagame and if that's the case, Elves will not be well-positioned. However, if High Tide is the combo deck of choice for it's resiliency, we should be fine. I would definitely play a streamlined, combo focused maindeck in the new metagame, since the disruption for the deck will be down. This means a black splash for the BA/Vengevine plan along with Therapy (perhaps Thoughtseize is better, as was suggested to me in Philadelphia) for the combo matches. I'd also try and have some graveyard hate in the board, either Ooze or Loaming Shaman over the 4th Buried Alive. Reanimator is an awful matchup and although it takes a large hit with the banning of Misstep, it's still a very powerful deck. Not much changes in the MD until the new metagame develops and becomes predictable, so I'll be running the same list if I get to a Legacy event sometime soon.
To everyone looking for advice on their lists, I'll repeat myself from earlier in the thread: Play 4 Gaea's Cradle, it's insane. Even if 3 sit dead in your hand one Cradle makes more mana than 4 lands much of the time, so you still come out ahead. You do have to play 1-2 more lands on average to fit in the normal lands but this is truly the most broken card in the deck. Combo decks in Maigc's history have always keyed on broken mana engines, broken card engines, and broken tutor engines. We have Cradle and Heritage Druid for the 1st, Glimpse and Regal Force for the 2nd, and GSZ and Pact for the 3rd. Cradle is actually the most powerful of all these cards, and is thus an automatic 4 of despite it being legendary.
Lastly, a note on the SB: Krosan Grip is not a good card. Counterbalance is the only card that should prompt you to bring in Grips. I haven't run them in months and literally never cast them when I did. (<------not hyperbole)
I'm not sure if Buried Alive is even included in the sideboard anymore. Several folks in my meta have picked up on a list similiar to Ross'.
2 Birchlore Rangers
4 Elvish Visionary
1 Elvish Archdruid
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Heritage Druid
1 Llanowar Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel
3 Priest of Titania
1 Quirion Ranger
2 Regal Force
1 Viridian Shaman
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Summoner's Pact
3 Gaea's Cradle
2 Bayou
5 Forest
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wooded Foothills
Sideboard
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Krosan Grip
1 Mortarpod
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Thoughtseize
4 Vengevine
Example from 9/22
Example from 8/14 #1
Example from 8/14 #2
@theross
BA+VV strategy its good for the Stoneblade matchup, but Batterskull its an anti-vengevine card. Thats why KGrip looks a good backup plan. I didnt test much, I'm just suggesting.
In a side note, I only have a couple of craddles and they're so expensive. If elves stands out in the meta, I might get the playset. Until then, I'll be using a crop rotation..
go with a living wish build with Gaea's in the board works so well for me and I only have to have 1. On a side note I think the top 16 in starcitygames of elves drove the price of Gaea's cradle up a bit (I might be wrong but gaea's seemed steady and then all of a sudden started going up). So you might not want to wait.Quote:
Originally Posted by Godmode
I'd prefer crop rotation anyways. Pendelhaven is surprisingly useful when people pull the "I'll sneak a little extra damage in because he won't want to trade an elf for this 1/1" type thing / lavamancer, mostly lavamancer. Crop Rotation with lodge can replace both an untapper and a lord, whichever you need when you need it, and it often wins me games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Godmode
In regards to K-Grip, I like it. It's really good, it's uncounterable which makes it ideal. As a general statement Theross is correct, however in my meta one of the more dominant players plays a mean mono blue control deck, without k-grip the chances of me winning is significantly lower against him. (He runs Energy Field to stall for his Oblivion Stone so he can one-sided disk you, discard and elves that blow up artifacts / enchants are all counterable, when the O-stone needs to die, it needs to die, and I want an uncounterable way to do it).
@Living Wish: Played it for like, 6 months. After switching, I'd recommend not running a living wish build. It's expensive and clunky and feels shitty. I'll try and put that in better words--when you're playing Living Wish, you never want to play it unless you have 17 mana. Because if you don't see another one you won't get emrakul. To date, I have not lost a game after resolving a summoning pact at some point, and usually during the turn I resolve it. I've never lost to pact and it's not hard at all to not die to it. When you run the wishboard, you start having to pay 3-4 mana for cards you can only afford to spend 1-2 mana on, overall, I find my elf deck leaps and bounds more consistent and powerful since switching to pact.
Summoning Trap, btw, is absurdly good vs control. Back to back traps gives you a pretty decent chance at hitting an emrakul turn 1 or 2, and if it doesn't they probably burnt their hand trying to stop it from resolving, which makes the rest of the game pretty easy.
Gaea's Cradle is powerful but 4 of is too many in my experience. I dropped my list to 3 and added 1 crop rotation. It has been awesome. Favorite play is to sac cradle to Crop Rotation to find another cradle.
I also run 1 vitalize. It has been great when I draw into it but lame in my opening. Has anybody else tried this?
Thanks
@rukcus: I always thought the vengevine plan always required BA/Intuition. Do you know the reasoning behind the VVs w/o the GY enablers?
BA is a dead card during the combo. The deck now runs GSZ and that's enough tutoring power to find VV when you want it. You don't force the VV, it just shows up. The plan isn't to play like Sligh, but rather be the control deck against control. They don't have the right tools (CBtop aside) to deal with all the threats this deck can generate and at the same time all our card advantage is more than control plays. Stick to keeping a good hand and riding out in the mid-late game.Quote:
Originally Posted by lord09
i agree gypsy..my friend who plays bant gripped in response pact-hive mind combo was not favored by the judge..Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsy
on a sidenote, i shifted back to the stefano cendrano build http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...8&iddeck=43202. it is more consistent although a bit slower to my genesis wave version. having four glimpse in the deck gives the deck security in terms CA.
here's my list now:
1 emrakul
4 llanowar e
4 fyndhorn e
4 e archdruid
4 priest of titania
4 e visionary
4 quirion ranger
4 heritage druid
4 nettle sentinel
4 wirwood symbiote
4 glimpse of nature
1 concordant crossroads
3 staff of domination
1 cloudstone curio
1 slate of ancestry
1 gaea's cradle
12 forest