[Primer/Deck] Pox

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Originally Posted by Hardcore

Part of the problem building my deck is to know what to exclude. I figure not every pox card work in every variant of the deck. Smallpox and pox both make it hard to play other expensive cards, like liliana.
Pox is fine but should i run without lili or smallpox? Which is better for AggroPox?

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Your previous findings were correct. I ran Aggro Pox [LD focus] with Liliana and found that she didn't really do much since enemies would die too fast for it to matter. Tombstalker, Nihilith, and Nyxathid were my win cons way back when. You only need to trip them with fast Discard/Land destruction, then let your biggies cut your enemies down in 4-5 turns before they can recover. Keep Smallpox, ditch Liliana and go with more copies of big Pox. Pox cuts your clock to 3 turns with Tombstalker or Nihilith (assuming your enemy used a fetchland). 2 turns with Nyxathid and they're Hellbent.

If you're still stuck, then maybe it's time to do some control variant experiments?

Tnx for feedback! I'll run a liliana less deck tomorrow to test. Wonder if i should bother with SDT?

Black vise unbanned !

LD strategy is back.

More importantly, DTT is gone. Blue no longer has the ability to nullify all of our disruption for UU in a way that ignores Chains to boot.

Tnx for the info. Didn't notice that.

Not sure it will do much for us. Less combo decks perhaps.

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Originally Posted by Admiral_Arzar

More importantly, DTT is gone. Blue no longer has the ability to nullify all of our disruption for UU in a way that ignores Chains to boot.

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It seems like a good time to dust off smallpox and hymn.

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Originally Posted by Hardcore

Tnx for feedback! I'll run a liliana less deck tomorrow to test. Wonder if i should bother with SDT?

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How many aggro decks run SDT? :tongue: SDT is defined in a control deck. I don't believe I've ever seen it in any aggro deck due simply to its nature as a slow card. If Black Vise is unbanned, I'm bringing back Trinisphere and Rancid Earth! :eek:

On the flip side, I may have to remove Hymn to Tourach and Liliana since they defeat the purpose of "hand full of useless cards" approach to victory.

Well, my deck is already is set for tonight so sdt is in.

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Originally Posted by Hardcore

Well, my deck is already is set for tonight so sdt is in.

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Cool. Let me know how it goes. If I make a LD focused Pox, I'll need to give it an Aggro edge since lands don't use the stack and killing them faster is better than attempting a prison.

Has anyone tried Desolation in Mono Black? It seems like really good tech against Miracles along with Pithing Needle.

i have ran desolation in the past as a weapon against miracles, it hurts our scrolls and factories though so i had to resort to bloodghasts, nether spirit and haunted platemail as my primary wincons..i would run crucibles or maybe mox diamonds to offset the land loss..

imagine how painful it'd be casting brainstorm and other cantrip spells with a desolation in play..

Desolation also goes well with Tabernacle...




but right now, i feel comfortable with just the crucible/wasteland soft lock..

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

It seems like a good time to dust off smallpox and hymn.

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tis' indeed a good time for pox! DTT has given blue decks a very unfair advantage over non-blue decks, it has literally almost pushed JUND out of the tournament scene..
it has also made discard weaker because they can just reload and recover cheaply for 2 mana..i'm glad its banned, not because it benefited our deck, but because it just warps the format..even if i were on blue, i'd still be glad it was banned..

black vise! i miss that, unfortunately, lili and vise just don't mesh well..

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Originally Posted by OmniStrata

Cool. Let me know how it goes. If I make a LD focused Pox, I'll need to give it an Aggro edge since lands don't use the stack and killing them faster is better than attempting a prison.

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I just got a 2-2 result with my build. The rack was still powerful despite me not running liliana, but I was less impressed by cabal therapy.
It often is like that: i retry cards i have played in the past and relearn the reason i didn't like them.

SDT i used a lot, but i am not sure of its worth compared to pure card draw. Otoh, if one is looking for a specific card, like wasteland or sinkhole, then it may be quite good.

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Originally Posted by Hardcore

I just got a 2-2 result with my build. The rack was still powerful despite me not running liliana, but I was less impressed by cabal therapy.
It often is like that: i retry cards i have played in the past and relearn the reason i didn't like them.

SDT i used a lot, but i am not sure of its worth compared to pure card draw. Otoh, if one is looking for a specific card, like wasteland or sinkhole, then it may be quite good.

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I never had the mana for SDT due to just casting what I'd top deck, Wastelands, Pox, and most importantly, Cursed Scroll.

I had 4 copies of Desolation and ran it, but for the same mana and a bit of a nuisance condition, Contamination is superior. The problem I had with Desolation is, unless I had a win con, enemies were still able to cast and play what they top decked. That and I had to be far ahead on resources to min-max Desolation's use, making it feel like a 'win more' card. Contamination however, can Time-walk for 3 mana if I don't have my sacrifices ready, and if the enemy has 5+ land on the field, can auto-win against any colored topdeck once it hits. Again, assuming they're not playing a black deck. I'll consider Desolation again, if I go the LD route and ditch Cursed Scroll and Mishra's Factory, which makes Desolation hurt me far more than them.

I do recall Desolation working better in a Pox deck armed with Chimeric Idols, Nether Spirit, and Haunted Platemail, but I think those lists are outdated by this point.

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Originally Posted by zenitramleirdag

tis' indeed a good time for pox! DTT has given blue decks a very unfair advantage over non-blue decks, it has literally almost pushed JUND out of the tournament scene..
it has also made discard weaker because they can just reload and recover cheaply for 2 mana..i'm glad its banned, not because it benefited our deck, but because it just warps the format..even if i were on blue, i'd still be glad it was banned..

black vise! i miss that, unfortunately, lili and vise just don't mesh well..

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I think jund just gets better too. I had a hard time beating the tempo decks (mostly esper mentor) in my small testing data. Gurmag angler is a real threat and mentor is very good. Honestly, getting probe/therapy on my hexmage/rotation was sick. I had a turn 3 marit lage and I already ripped stp out with inquisition. Those are the breaks. I hope jund steps in and starts squashing the tempo decks down again, and it kind of makes me want to play a more traditional loam pox list with bloodghasts, innocent blood, and deeds main again. I am not giving up on depths just yet though, and maybe its a sideboard strategy (transformational) as it only takes up 6 slots without hexmage.

For now, I'll just go with my current list. Maindeck darkblast or disfigure may help fill in for the missing innocent bloods (missing that early cheap removal).

Darkblast can't handle DRS ,or SFM, well.

Upkeep, darkblast. Draw step, dredge darkblast, play darkblast. Needs 2 lands but that has ways been a flexible mode of darkblast.

indeed, and i have been a proponent of that tactic. why then didn't it help me yesterday against blade control?
A sweeper would have been better then.

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Originally Posted by Hardcore

indeed, and i have been a proponent of that tactic. why then didn't it help me yesterday against blade control?
A sweeper would have been better then.

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Deed is really strong in that regard, but I understand it is slow. Drown in sorrow seems good for monoblack, or massacre if they are playing plains.

BV will be "live" very soon and I'm looking forward using it.

Here is my take on a list including it:


2 Maze of Ith
2 Rishadan Port
2 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
12 Swamp
1 Nether Spirit
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Black Vise
4 Trinisphere
1 The Abyss
4 Dark Ritual
2 Rancid Earth
4 Encroach
4 Innocent Blood
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox

SB: 1 Engineered Plague
SB: 1 Nether Void
SB: 2 Spinning Darkness
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 3 Braids, Cabal Minion
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
SB: 1 Pox


I'm just "theorycrafting", here, but anyone should get the general idea.

Happy testing and happy to discuss.

Edit: after a few games, the list has evolved a bit.

1) Encroach seems like a necessary evil as usually it is a very broken T1 play
2) 3 BV are sufficient. Being able to kill faster is cool but being able to lock and sustain the lock is better
3) Mishra was "cute". As the mana curve has been lowered a bit, cutting a land was an obvious choice.