[Deck] MonoU OmniTell

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Originally Posted by locozildjiangodx

Trickbind works great in a ton of matchups. Works on Counterbalance in the Miracles matchup, Griselbrand, an opposing Emrakul trigger etc etc etc. There are a lot of neat things it can do on the stack.

Also Split Decision is for the 2 drop spot with Fireminds. If you don't care about missing that value, then do as you wish, but you should have 1 2 drop in the deck (says the noob).

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I am a totally noob with this deck, didn't play any Legacy for the past year or so, thats the reason I need your help. My thoughtprocess was something like:
- I am in black, so I am able to play LDV (2-drop)
- I have another 2- drop with Impulse if I am forced to play my LDV before the combo
- If my opponent lets me combo, why should I firemind for a split decision?

Really, don't want to troll here, but I did a lot of mistakes during the last tournament caused by inexperience, thankfully the deck, especially Dig Through Time was very forgiving and led to a positive outcome.

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Originally Posted by DarkJester

I am a totally noob with this deck, didn't play any Legacy for the past year or so, thats the reason I need your help. My thoughtprocess was something like:
- I am in black, so I am able to play LDV (2-drop)
- I have another 2- drop in Impulse if I am in a hurry and need to play my LDV before the combo
- If my opponent lets me combo, why should I firemind for a split decision?

Really, don't want to troll here, but I did a lot of mistakes during the last tournament caused by inexperience, thankfully the deck, especially Dig Through Time were very forgiving and led to a positive outcome.

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Oh, I am also a noob, hence why I said 'says the noob,' (I didn't mean you). I think you want to stick with Impulse OR Split Decision. Not both. That's maybe where the confusion is. I, too make a lot of mistakes and am still learning a lot.

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Originally Posted by P-E

Thx Captain obvious!!
Bolt : cheaper , easily countered , can t pass Mom+bear

Shock: more expensive , harder to counter and kill mom+bear

What is so hard to understand?
You can play bolt but don t tell me it s better than shock and please use good arguments!

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The only thing Lightning Bolt has over Sudden Shock is its low price and potentially killing a Lodestone Golem or a Jace, the Mind Sculptor but those are really marginal. Cost is pretty important, especially when you have to cast Cunning Wish, Split Second is really nice but sometimes you can't pay for it. I've had times where a Lightning Bolt would lose where Sudden Shock would win and the reverse also happened.

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Originally Posted by KobeBryan

When there is an annoying hate bear. Split second makes a world of difference

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Pretty much only when there is a Mother of Runes on the field.

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Originally Posted by Varal

The only thing Lightning Bolt has over Sudden Shock is its low price and potentially killing a Lodestone Golem or a Jace, the Mind Sculptor but those are really marginal. Cost is pretty important, especially when you have to cast Cunning Wish, Split Second is really nice but sometimes you can't pay for it. I've had times where a Lightning Bolt would lose where Sudden Shock would win and the reverse also happened.



Pretty much only when there is a Mother of Runes on the field.

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Or stack counters, or sensei's on the field with Counterbalance on a meddling mage.

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Originally Posted by locozildjiangodx

Oh, I am also a noob, hence why I said 'says the noob,' (I didn't mean you). I think you want to stick with Impulse OR Split Decision. Not both. That's maybe where the confusion is. I, too make a lot of mistakes and am still learning a lot.

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Yes, this 2 CMC slot is one or the other.

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Originally Posted by KobeBryan

The guy doesn't make it clear whether the Eidolon is on the field.

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How is "lethal on board, Eidolon in hand" unclear?

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Originally Posted by ESG

Well, that's absurd. But, OK, so the line changes to Show and Tell, putting in Omniscience, opponent puts in Eidolon. All your spells are now free to cast. Burning Wish No. 1 (down to 2 life) for Massacre. Play Massacre, killing Eidolon. Burning Wish No. 2 grabs Petals of Insight. Loop Petals of Insight to build up storm until you find another Burning Wish, at which point you stop and draw three. Play Wish No. 3 to get Grapeshot and KO opponent.

See? I knew there had to be a Storm line.

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That is a nice line given the information, but I made a typo in my post for the puzzle. :rolleyes: Sorry about that, it definitely makes the puzzle easier! My hand 1 Burning Wish, not 2. So to be more specific:
I'm at 4 life to my opponent's lots.
My board: 1 Island tapped, 2 Volcanics, 1 Sea, 2 Island untapped
My hand: 1 Underground Sea, 1 Show and Tell, 1 Burning Wish, 1 Omniscience
His board: 1 Trop, 1 Volc, both untapped. 1 Goyf, 1 Goose (3/4 and 3/3 respectively)
His hand: 1 Eidolon of the Great Revel, 1 unknown.

My deck has no Emrakul, sorceries currently in my board were: 1 Grapeshot, 1 Petals of Insight, 1 Massacre, 3 Pyroclasm, 1 Meltdown, 1 Innocent Blood, 1 Thoughtseize, 1 Void Snare.

I promise there is a line that can win, and depending on a certain condition it can be deterministic or probabilistic.

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Originally Posted by phazonmutant

That is a nice line given the information, but I made a typo in my post for the puzzle. :rolleyes: Sorry about that, it definitely makes the puzzle easier! My hand 1 Burning Wish, not 2. So to be more specific:
I'm at 4 life to my opponent's lots.
My board: 1 Island tapped, 2 Volcanics, 1 Sea, 2 Island untapped
My hand: 1 Underground Sea, 1 Show and Tell, 1 Burning Wish, 1 Omniscience
His board: 1 Trop, 1 Volc, both untapped. 1 Goyf, 1 Goose (3/4 and 3/3 respectively)
His hand: 1 Eidolon of the Great Revel, 1 unknown.

My deck has no Emrakul, sorceries currently in my board were: 1 Grapeshot, 1 Petals of Insight, 1 Massacre, 3 Pyroclasm, 1 Meltdown, 1 Innocent Blood, 1 Thoughtseize, 1 Void Snare.

I promise there is a line that can win, and depending on a certain condition it can be deterministic or probabilistic.

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Burning Wish for Petals, cast Show and Tell putting Omniscience into play. If your library has a number of cards that is not a multiple of 3 then manipulate with petals until you will draw 2 BW and have sufficient storm to Grapshot them. BW (down to 2) for Massacre, Massacre, BW for Grapeshot, Grapeshot. If it does have a multiple of 3, hope there are 2 BW in 1 pile?

Alternatively, I'm pretty sure this doesn't work, but I'm not positive how these triggers stack: If you cast grapeshot with Eidolon on board, the storm copies go on the stack immediately and then Eidolon, right (so you die before any grapeshots resolve)? ... If not, then you can just BW for Petals first, SnT Omni, Petals for storm and 1 BW, BW down to 2 for Grapeshot, Grapeshot and have storm triggers resolve before Eidolon.

I have a really ignorant question:

How do Emrakul Omni lists run Pacts of Negation? Don't you lose the turn after because you can't pay the mana? Do you assume you always have a trickbind to stifle it?

Assuming you use it to protect your S&T or whatever enabler, if it resolves, don't you have to wait for the next turn to get to the attack phase? I mean, this deck doesn't win the same turn like the Maniac version can, right?

Please pardon my ignorance, relatively new player here

Why is the island tapped? Did you brainstorm for a storm count?

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Originally Posted by addict insane

I have a really ignorant question:

How do Emrakul Omni lists run Pacts of Negation? Don't you lose the turn after because you can't pay the mana? Do you assume you always have a trickbind to stifle it?

Assuming you use it to protect your S&T or whatever enabler, if it resolves, don't you have to wait for the next turn to get to the attack phase? I mean, this deck doesn't win the same turn like the Maniac version can, right?

Please pardon my ignorance, relatively new player here

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Because you often don't need to attack with Emrakul to win. You just need to resolve Show and Tell and put in Omniscience. Winning is relatively trivial when all your spells are free. You would probably kill via Release the Ants if you were running Pact of Negation. Or if you're in the midgame, you could just pay for your Pact and then attack with Emrakul. If you're new to the deck, watch some coverage on Twitch of people playing it.

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Originally Posted by addict insane

I have a really ignorant question:

How do Emrakul Omni lists run Pacts of Negation? Don't you lose the turn after because you can't pay the mana? Do you assume you always have a trickbind to stifle it?

Assuming you use it to protect your S&T or whatever enabler, if it resolves, don't you have to wait for the next turn to get to the attack phase? I mean, this deck doesn't win the same turn like the Maniac version can, right?

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People use it as a hard counter. You don't always play Emmy off of Omni. You can use Ants as well.

You don't need 2 Burning Wish in a single pile, just one with a way to get a second one like a Preordain into Dig Through Time just like a normal Omni kill.

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Originally Posted by Teknique

Alternatively, I'm pretty sure this doesn't work, but I'm not positive how these triggers stack: If you cast grapeshot with Eidolon on board, the storm copies go on the stack immediately and then Eidolon, right (so you die before any grapeshots resolve)? ... If not, then you can just BW for Petals first, SnT Omni, Petals for storm and 1 BW, BW down to 2 for Grapeshot, Grapeshot and have storm triggers resolve before Eidolon.

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If there is multiple triggers at the same time, the active player chooses in which order the triggers he controls go on the stack then the non-active player chooses in which order the triggers he controls go on top of the stack. Player can order their own triggers but active player triggers always resolve last.

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Originally Posted by KobeBryan

Or stack counters, or sensei's on the field with Counterbalance on a meddling mage.

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Shock also killed some Mentor's lately! I even dropped Omniscience and killed Quasali Pridemage :tongue: (with mana up), shock has been great in so many situations ^^ I only once lost to ANT on 2 life, where bolt would have won.. I had 4 mana up and Wish in hand...

Thank you for your replies in spite of the very noob question.

I don't have access to Twitch at work, which is where I spent almost all of my time online, so I can't watch any videos yet. Also, maybe I'm wrong, but I'm guessing people would just scoop after seeing you cast your win condition, so I still wouldn't be able to watch the whole winning process. Which still leaves me with the following question:

How do you make sure that release the ants always comes back to your hand? When you clash your top card just goes to the bottom, so after a few iterations, you're bound to run into a land while your opponent has a higher cmc spell. So how do you guarantee your release the ants can reach 20 damage without fizzling?

EDIT: I've read that one way to do it is through Enter the Infinite -> Emrakul goes back to library as the only card there -> Release the Ants ftw. However some lists don't run EtI, yet they run Release the Ants, so, still in the dark about this one.

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Originally Posted by addict insane

Thank you for your replies in spite of the very noob question.

I don't have access to Twitch at work, which is where I spent almost all of my time online, so I can't watch any videos yet. Also, maybe I'm wrong, but I'm guessing people would just scoop after seeing you cast your win condition, so I still wouldn't be able to watch the whole winning process. Which still leaves me with the following question:

How do you make sure that release the ants always comes back to your hand? When you clash your top card just goes to the bottom, so after a few iterations, you're bound to run into a land while your opponent has a higher cmc spell. So how do you guarantee your release the ants can reach 20 damage without fizzling?

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701.20a To clash, a player reveals the top card of his or her library. That player may(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) then put that card on the bottom of his or her library.

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Originally Posted by Ogh!

701.20a To clash, a player reveals the top card of his or her library. That player may(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) then put that card on the bottom of his or her library.

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I don't have access to any of the pages with magic rulings either, but what I can see of clashing from the mtgtop8 page is that the card reads "(Each clashing player reveals the top card of his or her library, then puts that card on the top or bottom. A player wins if his or her card had a higher converted mana cost.)". There is no may clause. But even if there is, do you require a library manipulation spell to make sure that your first clash is not a land/one cmc cantrip?

EDIT: Is the may clause an errata?

"then puts that card on the top (!!!!) or bottom."

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Originally Posted by addict insane

But even if there is, do you require a library manipulation spell to make sure that your first clash is not a land/one cmc cantrip?

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Yes. That's why you grab Brainstorm with FF.

EDIT: As you seem to be learning this deck I should be a bit more explicit. If you play Split Decision or Twincast in your main deck, you would first drop Omniscience and then use Cunning Wish to get Firemind's Foresight. You cast Firemind's Foresight to get Brainstorm, Split Decision and (another) Cunning Wish. You cast Cunning Wish, retain priority, and copy it with Split Decision. With your first Cunning Wish you get Eladamri's Call. With you second Cunning Wish (copied via Split Decision) you get Release the Ants. Then you cast Eladamri's Call to get Emrakul. Then you cast Brainstorm to put Emrakul on top. Then you cast Release the Ants and choose to put Emrakul back on the top. Repeat the last step.

EDIT 2: The sequence above is just one possible way although it's probably safe to say that it's the "standard" way to kill.

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Originally Posted by addict insane

Thank you for your replies in spite of the very noob question.

I don't have access to Twitch at work, which is where I spent almost all of my time online, so I can't watch any videos yet. Also, maybe I'm wrong, but I'm guessing people would just scoop after seeing you cast your win condition, so I still wouldn't be able to watch the whole winning process. Which still leaves me with the following question:

How do you make sure that release the ants always comes back to your hand? When you clash your top card just goes to the bottom, so after a few iterations, you're bound to run into a land while your opponent has a higher cmc spell. So how do you guarantee your release the ants can reach 20 damage without fizzling?

EDIT: I've read that one way to do it is through Enter the Infinite -> Emrakul goes back to library as the only card there -> Release the Ants ftw. However some lists don't run EtI, yet they run Release the Ants, so, still in the dark about this one.

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Cunning wish -> Firemind's foresight -> cunning wish, split decision, brainstorm -> cunning wish #1, get call, Split decision Cunning wish, get release the ants. Cast call to get Emmy. Cast Brainstorm to put emmy on top. Cast ants for the win.

It doesn't have to be an Emrakul on Top, an Omniscience also is a winner and sometimes a Dig Through Time or a Force of Will. You can also select the top card with a Preordain or a Ponder. Sometimes you must take more complex lines if your opponent has Surgical Extraction, Grindstone, etc. to disrupt you.

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Originally Posted by addict insane

I don't have access to any of the pages with magic rulings either, but what I can see of clashing from the mtgtop8 page is that the card reads "(Each clashing player reveals the top card of his or her library, then puts that card on the top or bottom. A player wins if his or her card had a higher converted mana cost.)". There is no may clause. But even if there is, do you require a library manipulation spell to make sure that your first clash is not a land/one cmc cantrip?

EDIT: Is the may clause an errata?

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What I highlighted is what you're missing regarding that card.

Scenario:

I have Brainstorm, Emrakul, and Release the Ants in my hand. I play Brainstorm and draw a land, Omniscience, and a Dig Through Time. I put Omniscience and Emrakul back on top of my library IN THAT ORDER. I play Release the Ants and it resolves. Both players flip the top card of their library. Yours is Emrakul. You now may put Emrakul (that card, per the text), on the TOP OR BOTTOM of your library. You decide to leave it on top for each clash until the opponent has 0 life or just scoops.