4 Card Blind

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silkster

3. alphastryk: Leyline of Singularity, Karakas, Hickory Woodlot, Loxodon Smiter, life bid: 30
Karakas can't protect the Smiter the turn that it's cast. Rage, little goblin, rage! 6 points

---

How does the goblin rage? Karakas.... Looks like a draw.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silkster

Leyline of Sanctity, City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistence, Chronomaton life bid:1
22 points by my count. I knew that Unburial with City of Traitors beat this, which is just the type of degenerate combo I was hoping to prey on, so that put me off of it.

---

I almost submitted that exact deck instead (same 4 cards and life total).

I passed on it because Sphere doesn't stop Leyline of Anticipation+Karakas, while Dark Deal does. It's also too easy to play around taxes. e.g. Asthereal, Wrath, Moosedog, H and you can all play threats through a turn 1 Sphere.

I just realized Chancellor of the Dross could be used aggressively too.
Chancellor of the Dross, Unmask, card, card; life bid: 4
At 4 life you're both safe from enemy Chancellor/Gut Shot and have the advantage of going first (if someone bids lower, Chancellor kills them, and yours resolves first due to APNAP). Going first you get to both turn 1 discard and play a threat.

For Round 5, should we have additional bans? The spirit of the format is ruined if people just play turn 1 Iona, turn 1 Dark Deal, etc. Then being able to deal damage or not doesn't matter. We should be unable to lock players out in the first 5 turns too.

Providence is an interesting card for this format, because you get to bid low and get away with it, but the drawback of only playing 3CB is definitely an issue.

I think prison is likely the way to go for next round no matter what we try to stop it, the question is what is too oppressive, which Iona/Dark Deal probably are. Remember that if Gerrard's Verdict is banned, that you do not forget about Chain of Smog.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FTW

How does the goblin rage? Karakas.... Looks like a draw.

---

I did not miss Karakas! I did, however, miss the Leyline of Singularity because several Karakas decks this week didn't include it. My bad. I corrected my scoring.

Sorry everyone, I had a funeral to go to yesterday, but looks like everyone already figured it all out already.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silkster

To clarify for the upcoming round, "players can't lose life" is the Platinum Emperion effect, so City of Brass doesn't reduce life, Mana Confluence can't be activated, and Hypnotic Specter will not reduce a player's life total, but will cause that player to discard. Is all of that correct?

---

Honestly, I wasn't sure how the game would deal with this.
My expectation was that the Specter fails to deal damage as the player in question can't lose life, so the trigger would not happen.

But I looked into it, and the game does consider the damage succesfully dealt, but the player just doesn't lose life because of it.
So you're right, the Specter trigger would work here and defending player would have to discard a card if the Specter went unblocked.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alphastryk

We had some discussion previously around simply banning any mass discard, which would stop things like Dark Deal as well. At some point a mass decision like that probably makes more sense than piecemeal bannings.

---

This is fair, but something like Stupor would be fine to be legal, and I generally don't like mass bannings of effects unless I have a very good reason to do so.

So most here are okay with banning Gerrard's Verdict, Chain of Smog and Dark Deal?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Asthereal

Honestly, I wasn't sure how the game would deal with this.
My expectation was that the Specter fails to deal damage as the player in question can't lose life, so the trigger would not happen.

But I looked into it, and the game does consider the damage succesfully dealt, but the player just doesn't lose life because of it.
So you're right, the Specter trigger would work here and defending player would have to discard a card if the Specter went unblocked.



This is fair, but something like Stupor would be fine to be legal, and I generally don't like mass bannings of effects unless I have a very good reason to do so.

So most here are okay with banning Gerrard's Verdict, Chain of Smog and Dark Deal?

---

yes

Standings for round 4

1. GoblinSmashmaster: 33 - 4,1
2. Moosedog: 30 - 3,8
3. FTW: 27 - 3,4
4. alphastryk: 24 - 3
4. silkster: 24 - 3
6. Tylert: 21 - 2,6
7. Wrath of Pie: 18 - 2,3
8. H: 15 - 1,9
9. Asthereal (TO): 14 - 1,8

Which means FTW consolidates his lead in the season, and Moosedog jumps to second place.


Banning update

Nobody objected, so I decided to ban Gerrard's Verdict, Chain of Smog and Dark Deal.
Leyline of the Singularity remains on the watchlist, but might get the axe soon as well.

ROUND 5 of SEASON 6: DEVIANT LEGACY has started.

This round we will play Take Five
During the first 5 turns of the game, players can't lose the game, lose life or get poison counters. (Counting of the turns works as follows: player A gets turn 1, player B then gets turn 2, player A gets turn 3, player B gets turn 4 and player A gets turn 5. So when player A is on the play, player B will be the first to be able to deal damage and so on.)
Addition bannings: Pact of Negation, Pact of the Titan, Slaughter Pact.

I have PM'ed myself my deck for round 5, so you can start sending me your decks.

EDIT: NEW DEADLINE: Wednesday the 6th of May, at 11:00AM Central European Time.
(That's my time zone. Pacific Time it'll probably be something like Tuesday night a bit past midnight, so keep that in mind.)

PLEASE NOTE:
The way you send your deck to me matters. Please send it in the way described below, so it doesn't cost me an hour of editing before I can post all the decks.
Please send your deck as follows: Mountain, Goblin Guide, Mogg Fanatic, Lightning Bolt.
So with card tags around each card, and not above eachother, and with your Username and 4CB S06R05 in the topic.
Don't forget to keep an eye on the banned list. You'll find it in the second post of the thread, or in our Google Spreadsheet.

After the deadline has passed, I will post all decks on the forum here, and you can start puzzling out your scores.
If you have any questions, please read the first two posts of this thread first. If you can't find the answer there, drop a message here. We'll answer a.s.a.p.

Also, if you've been lurking on this thread and looking to join, you can step in anytime, any round. That's no problem at all. Just send me your deck before the deadline, and I'll add you to the competition. :smile:

Happy deck designing everybody! :cool:

About 24 hours until the deadline, and we're at 4 entries. Don't miss out! :wink:

Deadline has passed, and we're almost complete. Missing just one of the regulars.
I'll do some work stuff first and give you a few more hours. :wink:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Asthereal

Deadline has passed, and we're almost complete. Missing just one of the regulars.
I'll do some work stuff first and give you a few more hours. :wink:

---

My bad, forgot what day it was yesterday, :rolleyes:

Don't sweat it. These are strange times.
Anyway, with H's entry we're complete, so let's go!

DECKS FOR ROUND 5 OF SEASON 6: TAKE FIVE

1. Asthereal (TO): Golgari Rot Farm, Treetop Village, Assassin's Trophy, Elixir of Immortality
2. GoblinSmashmaster: Leyline of Singularity, Karakas, Judge's Familiar, Force of Negation
3. Tylert: Golgari Rot Farm, Treetop Village, Assassin's Trophy, Elixir of Immortality
4. alphastryk: Golgari Rot Farm, Treetop Village, Assassin's Trophy, Elixir of Immortality
5. Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Lotus Petal, Delirium Skeins, Nether Spirit
6. Moosedog: Ancient tomb, Ancient tomb, Chalice of the void, Thought-knot seer
7. silkster: Gemstone Mine, Duress, Crashing Footfalls, Restore Balance
8. FTW: Bayou, Duress, Evil Presence, Hexdrinker
9. H: Lion's Eye Diamond, Plains, Unburial Rites, Empyrial Archangel

Please post your scores and cross-check with the opponents.
I'll update the Google Spreadsheet for the season, so you can enter your scores there as well: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

Asthereal's scores for round 5, "Take Five":

1. Asthereal (TO): Golgari Rot Farm, Treetop Village, Assassin's Trophy, Elixir of Immortality
That's me, with a rather unoriginal entry. :laugh:
2. GoblinSmashmaster: Leyline of Singularity, Karakas, Judge's Familiar, Force of Negation
I'll play Elixir first. If you counter it, I'll just Trophy Karakas and Village will win it. But if you don't, Elixir will reshuffle Trophy anyway, so you can't stop it anyway. 6-0
3. Tylert: Golgari Rot Farm, Treetop Village, Assassin's Trophy, Elixir of Immortality
What an outstanding deck! Well done, sir! Whoever gets Trophy the Farm first wins, so that's a win on the play and a loss on the draw. 3-3
4. alphastryk: Golgari Rot Farm, Treetop Village, Assassin's Trophy, Elixir of Immortality
Another amazing player with excellent ideas! Again, whoever gets Trophy the Farm first wins, so that's a win on the play and a loss on the draw. 3-3
5. Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Lotus Petal, Delirium Skeins, Nether Spirit
I did not ban enough discard spells, and someone capitalizes. I'll add Skeins to the banned list after this round, and try to find more of those cards. 0-6
6. Moosedog: Ancient tomb, Ancient tomb, Chalice of the void, Thought-knot seer
This deck stops mine quite handily. Looks like you're in for a very lucrative round. 0-6
7. silkster: Gemstone Mine, Duress, Crashing Footfalls, Restore Balance
EDIT: In oeder to use Balance, you need to suspend it first and Balance afterwards. This is limiting, and FTW did the math, so apparently we draw twice. 2-2
8. FTW: Bayou, Duress, Evil Presence, Hexdrinker
Presence is fun, but doesn't stop me from casting my stuff. Duress my Elixir, I Trophy Hex FTD. Duress Trophy? I Elixir it back and still use it to kill Hex FTD. Looks like a 2-2.
9. H: Lion's Eye Diamond, Plains, Unburial Rites, Empyrial Archangel
An Elixir a day keeps an Archangel at bay. Simply Elixir every turn, compensating for the 5 life loss from Angel. Can't win though. 2-2

Total: 18 points

5. Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Lotus Petal, Delirium Skeins, Nether Spirit

1. Asthereal (TO): Golgari Rot Farm, Treetop Village, Assassin's Trophy, Elixir of Immortality WW
2. GoblinSmashmaster: Leyline of Singularity, Karakas, Judge's Familiar, Force of Negation LL
3. Tylert: Golgari Rot Farm, Treetop Village, Assassin's Trophy, Elixir of Immortality WW
4. alphastryk: Golgari Rot Farm, Treetop Village, Assassin's Trophy, Elixir of Immortality WW
6. Moosedog: Ancient tomb, Ancient tomb, Chalice of the void, Thought-knot seer WL - One of the few scenarios where playing Chalice of the Void over Sphere of Resistance is actually correct!
7. silkster: Gemstone Mine, Duress, Crashing Footfalls, Restore Balance WL
8. FTW: Bayou, Duress, Evil Presence, Hexdrinker WL
9. H: Lion's Eye Diamond, Plains, Unburial Rites, Empyrial Archangel WL - Hilariously, Archangel still gets dealt damage even with the inability to lose life for the first five turns.

10w = 30 points

True story: I was close to playing Ensnaring Bridge (which would have done poorly, as I suspected), then I realized that silly me forgot about Delirium Skeins, and knew what had to be done. Sorry :frown:

This round was basically just 4CB legacy? For future rounds maybe change it to players cannot play spells/permanents for the first 5 turns?

1. Asthereal (TO): Golgari Rot Farm, Treetop Village, Assassin's Trophy, Elixir of Immortality
Chalice and thoughtknot get there. 6-0

2. GoblinSmashmaster: Leyline of Singularity, Karakas, Judge's Familiar, Force of Negation
I will continue to ignore planning for leyline but at least can force a draw OTP. 2-0

3. Tylert: Golgari Rot Farm, Treetop Village, Assassin's Trophy, Elixir of Immortality
Chalice and thoughtknot get there. 6-0

4. alphastryk: Golgari Rot Farm, Treetop Village, Assassin's Trophy, Elixir of Immortality
Chalice and thoughtknot get there. 6-0

5. Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Lotus Petal, Delirium Skeins, Nether Spirit
Nice list. OTP Chalice on 0 slows you down enough. 3-3

6. Moosedog: Ancient tomb, Ancient tomb, Chalice of the void, Thought-knot seer
ME.

7. silkster: Gemstone Mine, Duress, Crashing Footfalls, Restore Balance
Edit: OTP: Chalice on zero gets there. OTD you just duress my chalice. (thanks for clarifications). 3-3

8. FTW: Bayou, Duress, Evil Presence, Hexdrinker
Edit: OTP chalice. OTD you can duress chalice and then presence my land. 3-3

9. H: Lion's Eye Diamond, Plains, Unburial Rites, Empyrial Archangel
OTP chalice on 0, OTD you go off. 3-3

H: Lion's Eye Diamond, Plains, Unburial Rites, Empyrial Archangel

1. Asthereal (TO): Golgari Rot Farm, Treetop Village, Assassin's Trophy, Elixir of Immortality
You can gain, I can only deal 5. 2-2

2. GoblinSmashmaster: Leyline of Singularity, Karakas, Judge's Familiar, Force of Negation
Can't beat Force. 0-6

3. Tylert: Golgari Rot Farm, Treetop Village, Assassin's Trophy, Elixir of Immortality
Same as round 1. 2-2

4. alphastryk: Golgari Rot Farm, Treetop Village, Assassin's Trophy, Elixir of Immortality
Same as round 3. 2-2

5. Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Lotus Petal, Delirium Skeins, Nether Spirit
Win on the Play, loose on the Draw. 3-3

6. Moosedog: Ancient tomb, Ancient tomb, Chalice of the void, Thought-knot seer
I should win on the Play, loose to Chalice on the Draw. 3-3

7. silkster: Gemstone Mine, Duress, Crashing Footfalls, Restore Balance
I surely loose on the Draw. On the Play, lets see...no, pretty sure I still lose. 0-6

8. FTW: Bayou, Duress, Evil Presence, Hexdrinker
I win on the Play, since Archangel can take 6 and fly over to win. I lose on the Draw. 3-3

9. H: Bye, myself.

Well, low effort, low return, haha. 15?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moosedog

This round was basically just 4CB legacy? For future rounds maybe change it to players cannot play spells/permanents for the first 5 turns?

6. Moosedog: Ancient tomb, Ancient tomb, Chalice of the void, Thought-knot seer
ME.

7. silkster: Gemstone Mine, Duress, Crashing Footfalls, Restore Balance
Need to look up suspend and chalice. Will Edit.

---

Chalice is very good against spells with converted mana cost 0, which Crashing Footfalls and Restore Balance happen to have. Not so good when Duress takes it on the draw, though.

I see this was a very creative round haha. My scoring will be the same as Asthereal's - 16 points.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moosedog

This round was basically just 4CB legacy? For future rounds maybe change it to players cannot play spells/permanents for the first 5 turns?

---

It definitely seems that way - without pacts theres not a lot of reasons to do anything that interacts with the extra rules, as its typically less powerful than just playing a "normal" deck. It seems Moosedog is the only one whose deck even interacts with the rule, as Ancient Tomb gets better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moosedog

7. silkster: Gemstone Mine, Duress, Crashing Footfalls, Restore Balance
Need to look up suspend and chalice. Will Edit.

---

Chalice on 0 counters the suspend spells if that's what you're looking up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alphastryk

It definitely seems that way - without pacts theres not a lot of reasons to do anything that interacts with the extra rules, as its typically less powerful than just playing a "normal" deck. It seems Moosedog is the only one whose deck even interacts with the rule, as Ancient Tomb gets better.

---

Yeah, that's why I asked earlier if the rule should be extended to prevent any disruption or interaction in the first 5 turns. That seemed more in spirit with the format. Otherwise it's just normal Legacy.

1. Asthereal (TO): Golgari Rot Farm, Treetop Village, Assassin's Trophy, Elixir of Immortality
This match is actually really close and interesting. I went back and forth about 3 times thinking I got 6, 4, or 2 points. In the end, I think it's 6, but it's close. See below. 6 points Nope, I think it's only 4.

2. GoblinSmashmaster: Leyline of Singularity, Karakas, Judge's Familiar, Force of Negation
This is interesting too. I can Duress the Force then push through the Balance, leaving you with only 1 card in hand, which isn't enough to have a threat and mana. From your side, I think you need to hold the Familiar until the turn before the Balance lands. If I play the Duress, I won't have mana to pay for the Familiar. If I don't Duress, you have the blue card to cast Force. DD, 2 points

3. Tylert: Golgari Rot Farm, Treetop Village, Assassin's Trophy, Elixir of Immortality
I was really scared when I thought I was losing points here, cause it got magnified. 6 points Nope, I think it's only 4.

4. alphastryk: Golgari Rot Farm, Treetop Village, Assassin's Trophy, Elixir of Immortality
Really magnified. 6 points Nope, I think it's only 4.

5. Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Lotus Petal, Delirium Skeins, Nether Spirit
Discard versus Discard. WL, 3 points

6. Moosedog: Ancient tomb, Ancient tomb, Chalice of the void, Thought-knot seer
Discard versus Chalice. WL, 3 poitns

8. FTW: Bayou, Duress, Evil Presence, Hexdrinker
I was thinking that decks might be slow and considered playing Evil Presence too, though I'm more partial to Crack the Earth. I didn't think anyone else would do it, though. This match is too close for me to call until I work it out. See below.
4 points, I think

9. H: Lion's Eye Diamond, Plains, Unburial Rites, Empyrial Archangel
I thought checked this match up specifically before submitting to make sure that Balance lands in time, but I now see that I'm off by one, taking hits on your turns 4,5,6,7 before my balance lands on turn 7. WL, 3 points Wait! I can kill the Archangel with the Rhinos! 6 points.
Shroud seems really good this week, but not against me.

30 points (maybe 36 without comment on the Elixir match).

Against Golgari Rot Farm, Treetop Village, Assassin's Trophy, Elixir of Immortality.
On the draw, Duress on Elixir isn't quite good enough.
Village, Duress on Elixir
Rot Farm, Rhinos on 4 (suspending Balance here means I'll lose my land and never get to make Rhinos)
Village, Rhinos on 3
17, Rhinos on 2
14, Rhinos on 1,
11, Rhinos land
You Assassinate a Rhino, and I can't get 5 hits in before you get 4 hits in.

Instead,
Village, Balance on 6
Elixir + Rot Farm, Balance on 5, Duress the Trophy
Village, Balance and Rhinos on 4
17, suspend on 3
14, suspend on 2
11, suspend on 1
wait, Balance then Rhinos
You have 3 useless draws before you even get a tapland.
But I now realize that you can use those middle turns to rebuy the Trophy with Elixir.

Maybe,
Village, Balance on 6
Elixir + Rot Farm, Balance on 5, Duress the Trophy
Use Elixir on upkeep, 25 life, Village, Balance and Rhinos on 4
Play and use Elixir to 30, suspend on 3
Elixir to 35, suspend on 2
Elixir to 40, suspend on 1
Play Elixir and wait, Activate to 45 after Balance lands. Two Rhinos against a full library.
Draw 1, 37
Draw 2, 29
Draw 3, 21
Village, 13
Elixir + Rot Farm, 5
Trophy a Rhino, 1
Upkeep go to 6, draw Trophy, go to 2
Draw Elixir and Trophy again.

Against FTW: Bayou, Duress, Evil Presence, Hexdrinker
On my play, I think Rhinos can kill before Hexdrinker is a 6/6, especially since one of your turns has to be preventing the Balance.
On your play, Duress on Footfalls leads to a draw, because I can suspend Balance and empty my hand. Duress on Balance means.
Rhinos on 4, Hexdrinker
Rhinos on 3, 1 counter, 19
Rhinos on 2, 2 counters, 18
Rhinos on 1, 3 counters, 14
Rhinos land, 4 counters
Rhinos punch to 12, 5 counters, 10
Rhinos punch to 4, 6 counters, no good options
Rhinos win. So instead you Duress on Footfalls for the draw.