Quote:
Originally Posted by MGB
Maybe control matchup itself? What is Lands control matchup against other control decks in the format like Miracles or Landstill?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MGB
Maybe control matchup itself? What is Lands control matchup against other control decks in the format like Miracles or Landstill?
There's really no reason to play magic, either, except to have fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by MGB
All any U-based control needs to do is play some Back to Basics (maybe fetchable by E-Tutor) and it automatically wins 80%+ against Lands.. so no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morte
And even when Lands is "winning" (like against aggro decks), it takes forever to win and will result in many match draws. This deck is just a terrible choice for any kind of competitive event. It should be in the "Casual" section maybe, if you consider this deck "fun".
LANDSTILL competitive... i stop reading...Quote:
Originally Posted by Morte
This deck like every other established deck in legacy just has to adapt over time. If you're not running punishing fires in your lands build right now to kill deathrite shamans you're doing it wrong. Once you take care of that and have some sideboard answers for rest in peaces and lots of show and tell hate you're fine. I'm not saying I'd recommend this deck but I've tested it recently and it's not as bad right now as you guys are making it out to be.
1) If you're not retarded, beating aggro decks with your maze of ith, punishing fire, tabernacle, zuran orb, glacial chasm deck is the easiest thing in the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by MGB
2). Results speak otherwise about this deck being unsuitable for competitive environments. Like every other deck in the history of magic the gathering, it takes some work to become proficient with it.
3). What reasonable control deck can sideboard back to basics? All of the good miracles lists splash some number of colors and don't bother with garbage like enlightened tutor to find miserable one-ofs.
While that guy seems to be simply trolling/hating, he does have somewhat of a point. Lands has very polarized matchups and right now there seem to be quite a few of the very bad variety. And even the good matchups have gotten a lot worse. Case in point, DRS – sure, Fires answers him well, but if you don't have it right away (and your opponent has any sort of additional action) you will be very far behind.
Of course, that doesn't make the deck casual. We're just worse positioned in the metagame than in the glorious days of Bant, Zoo, Thresh, Natural Order, Mystical Tutor Reanimator.
Regarding Back to Basics: This is of course not the Miracles thread, but BtB seems viable even in three color builds. At least where I play, the Miracles players are more likely to have it than not to have it. And even if they don't have it (or Rest in Peace) the matchup is still quite bad.
Remember, this guy saying there's no reason to play lands is the same one who said brainstorm is bad in MUC.
im not concerned about b2b. I think ive had it played against me once, ever. Its not really a big part of the meta, most miracles builds are not playing it.
the last time i played lands at grand prix, i had 2 draws(and two losses) in 16 rounds. Go figure. (one of those draws saved me from certain defeat)
I think our two bad matchups now, are Omni and Storm Combo. The rest are decent or good - with the rarer reanimator nad DnT matchups being worse than most people think (if they play correctly).
What about envelop guys
- vs storm that targets
all the tutors (burning wish, infernal tutor, grim tutor),
all the storm count cards (past in flames,Diminishing Returns,Ill-Gotten Gains)
even cards like ponder, preordain , probe, duress, cabal, rite of flame
-vs Show n tell target
mainly the show n tell
but who knows one envelop could be enough on the enter the infinite resolving by a dream halls
WTF? Do you play magic? This is an incredibly interesting deck and Im sure it would be a solid deck if it werent prohibitively expensive. Also a lot of players feel the need to play Brainstorm and FoW so that is another reason control decks like these dont see as much play. And The top 8's and top 16's prove your point otherwise, so you are either a troll or just don't actually know anything and enjoy talking out of your ass.Quote:
Originally Posted by MGB
In the twenty years I've played Magic, I've never actually picked up Lands (or any incarnation of it) to play, as it just doesn't interest me as a player. I still respect it and think it's a very good deck if piloted correctly.Quote:
Originally Posted by MGB
This comment, however, reeks of someone who has no idea what competitive Legacy actually is and more than likely has seen his or her share of 'Factory beat-downs - hence the vindictive attitude towards its playability.
What's not fun about making your opponent have no fun... "Storm just loses to force of will, so since 99% of the format runs it, shouldn't that be considered a casual deck that shouldn't be played in a competitive tournament?" Said nobody, ever...Quote:
Originally Posted by MGB
I'm in the process of building this deck. I have most of the cards, but I'm still missing Rishadan Ports and need something in the meantime. I was wondering whether it would be feasible to borrow tech from UB Tezzeret and run Ancient Tombs and/or City of Traitors in their place and then maindeck some number of Chalice of the Void? (I'm already planning on running an Enlightened Tutor build.)
Ports are generally considered an auto-include. Their ability to cut off basic lands is key to the mana-denial strategy. That said, I have experience with Port-less configurations, although the deck plays somewhat differently. The sol lands, which I experimented with at one point (I used City of Traitors), make Crucible of Worlds and Intuition better, and the deck can end up playing like Stax. Basically, the game plan is different when you don't have Ports, but I don't feel a Port-less build is meritless.
During the time Port was not on Magic Online people played more manlands (Factory) instead, as far as I remember.
Edit: Found this
Anybody have any good testing with ddepths lately? It hasn't gotten me any wins that I didn't already have in the bag, but I can see how having it and saying you shortcut to it in a timed setting makes sense for this deck. I do like that you no longer rely on the yard for a wincon (if it hasn't been dredge into yet) and it can't be discarded, cliqued away, or countered.
Also, in today's meta, namely SCG, I am starting to like to having the cursed totem in the main more. It may be a bit drastic since we have a good game against creature spamming decks, but Deathrite Shaman is a kick in the nuts if i don't have a recurring fires out and they snap keep a hand with him in it. Granted, having two EE in the main has helped out, but I still like totem as a crutch. Have other people had better results with adding the fourth Fires?
I took this deck to a local tournament this weekend and went 2-1-1, figured y'all might be interested in some discussion (the Valakut lands thread is long dead). I've experimented with Valakut in lands in the past, but decided to try and hybridize Lands with the Scapeshift Nic Fit deck to strengthen the strategy.
4 Exploration
4 Burning Wish
3 Punishing Fire
2 Intuition
1 Life from the Loam
3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Scapeshift
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Veteran Explorer
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
4 Taiga
3 Volcanic Island
2 Stomping Ground
2 Forest
2 Mountain
1 Island
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Tolaria West
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
1 Boseiju, who Shelters All
1 Wasteland
1 Forgotten Cave
4 Maze of Ith
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
Sideboard
1 Overmaster
1 Life from the Loam
1 Slagstorm
1 Reverent Silence
1 Scapeshift
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Harmonize
1 Xantid Swarm
4 Sphere of Resistance
3 Krosan Grip
I found Valakut lands lacking in acceleration because it can't play Manabond - 4 Exploration just isn't enough. Green Sun's Zenith steps in, allowing Zenith -> Arbor, and Zenith -> Explorer (this is obviously situational, Punishing Fire is a good way to kill Explorer if you think your opponent won't do it for you). The other creatures are mostly there for utility, stalling, or in the case of Primeval Titan an alternate wincon if Scapeshift is unavailable for some reason. Thragtusk is a nice surprise for aggro decks as well. Against blue decks you simply play lands and find a Scapeshift and a means to make it un-counterable. Tolaria West -> Boseiju and Burning Wish -> Overmaster are available preboard. Postboard you can also GSZ -> Xantid. Against aggro, do the usual things lands does to stall, and then win with Scapeshift. Combo is of course awful, although I managed to take a game off of Omnitell with double Sphere followed by Veteran Explorer beatdown (!).
The deck is very unpolished right now and is kind of awkward to play, but is very powerful. It crushed UWR control and Merfolk with ease, drawing with U/R burn (Price of Progress = lol). I won't be able to play it much in the near future because Omnitell is 25% of my meta at the moment, but I would welcome some ideas to improve and streamline it.
Have people seen Kurt Spiess' interesting take on Stage-Depths Lands? He apparently went 7-1 (or better) in the Legacy portion of the SCG Invitational. His list eschews blue for stable mana and redundancy.
4 Life from the Loam
4 Exploration
2 Manabond
4 Gamble
3 Crop Rotation
4 Punishing Fires
4 Mox Diamond
4 Thespian's Stage
2 Dark Depths
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Maze of Ith
1 Glacial Chasm
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Tranquil Thicket
1 Bayou
2 Taiga
4 G-Fetch
3 Dark Confidant
2 Last Rites
2 Thoughtseize
1 Raven's Crime
2 Krosan Grip
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Dark Depths
(http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=57853)
I don't think it's so much mana as it is more lands that do stuff. when you have to play 10-11 mana lands plus groves you often feel like you're not doing enough with your life...
that said, I'd kinda prefer burning wish over gamble bc it seems like it could get better answers to RIP against UW (which is, IMO, the main nightmare matchup of this deck) but I also haven't tested his particular list.