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In our new aggro heavy environment I have been testing Snap over Turnabout. If we are running creatures of our own that might be even stronger; like Snapcaster, Snap can be used pre combo to buy time without giving up our ability to sculpt, and it also deals with hatebears.
Snapcaster mage is pretty sick in this deck I must admit. I'm really excited; reuse anything? Hell yes.
Dayyou, flusterstorm can generate card advantage when it counters more than one spell it generates card advantage. Disrupt is cute and everything, but it isn't really worth it unless you run a lot of them. During the combo it's 1U: Draw a card, which is quite weak and pre combo it answers...GSZ? EoT brainstorm? If it answers a natural order, be proud.
Snap and snapcaster mage go hand in hand together lol; cast this snapcaster mage, give high tide flashback, flashback high tide, cast snap on snapcaster mage, replay snapcaster mage, target meditate, win the game. Lol. This is the best card other than flusterstorm for solidarity in years IMO. I can't wait to see how good snapcaster mage is in here.
Sorry, had to fix this a bit, as it generates more storm (and mana depending on how many high tide's have been played...). Bur I agree this really looks like it might put solidarity back on the radar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Ritual
Wow, this card is pretty amazing! For Solidarity, the combo step always involves drawing 3 cards: High Tide, Untapper, Draw spell. This guy ensures that during combo'ing, if you drew him, he would ensure that you would always get a Tide/untapper/Draw spell when you need to. He functions as a Cunning Wish but is a mana lower, and allows you to play 4 Tides MD instead of 3MD 1SB in the heavy wish builds.
Being able to have some flexibility with reusing Impulses while chumpblocking early game to setup for the combo is also a huge plus. Who would have knew that the next big card for Solidarity would be a creature, considering the whole deck is instants? :P
I'm pretty excited, glad I've been Koreanizing this deck and keeping it on my radar the past couple of months, now to actually get down to practicing some games.
this guy actually has me pulling resets back out of my box.
After forever, we finally get a real toy to play with.
Re Snapcaster Mage
I saw something on the SCD thread which was wrong, but here it is done right.
Imagine the following: It’s turn three, you have three Islands in play, and your hand consists of High Tide, Snapcaster Mage, and Intuition. You cast Intuition for Snap.
It’s now turn four. You cast High Tide > Snapcaster (for High Tide) > High Tide > Snap (on Snapcaster). You have 1 mana floating, two Islands untapped, and Snapcaster in hand (4 storm).
Now Snapcaster (for Snap) > Snap (on Snapcaster) > Snapcaster (on the last Snap) > Snap (Snapcaster). You now have 5 mana floating, two Islands untapped and Snapcaster in hand (8 storm).
Now Snapcaster (for Intuition) > Intuition (for Cunning Wish) > Cunning Wish (your sideboard Snap) > Snap (Snapcaster). You now have 1 mana floating, two Islands untapped, and a Snapcaster in hand (12 storm).
Now Snapcaster (for Snap) > Snap (Snapcaster). 3 mana floating, two Islands untapped, and Snapcaster in hand (14 storm).
Now Snapcaster (for Cunning Wish) > Cunning Wish (Brainfreeze) > Brainfreeze for 51 cards.
This is a completely draw independent win on turn four with only three cards in hand (and one turn of setup)! Of course, it is vulnerable to disruption, and it does not deal with lethal damage (although it can also be done on YOUR turn four, as it does not rely on Reset.
If you have a Reset in hand as well, you can also pull this off on turn three, as you need the extra mana generation to cast the Intuition on the same turn.
A niche play? Sure, but this is just off the top of my head. What more might be possible? With Intuition, Snapcaster is much like making a Doomsday stack.
I really don't think playing a combo which requires three cards in hand (Tide, Intuition, Mage) to even start off, is an improvement to the deck.
I can see Snapcaster Mage being played as a very effective recursion of countermagic (FStorm/MM) or cantrip (Impulse in particular).
Chumpblocking a beating Goyf/Batterskull and being forced to flashback something on turn 3-5 is most probably the worst play of this Mage, though who doesn't like an Impulse/Brainstorm effect? :wink:
I'm developing a new list with Snapcaster Mage, though I'm very doubtful to go for maindeck Snap. Recently I'm not even playing Snap in SB since Dismember performs so much better.
If Snap would be added MD, Repeal seems like an obvious choice to go. Removing Repeal from MD makes you way way way too dependant on Wipe Away in the SB.
Putting all this Snapmagic maindeck leaves you open for opposing countermagic. Question is, can Snapmagic outlast opposing countermagic? oO
Choices to make...mhmm
I've added 3 snapcaster mage and 3 intuition but it slows too much the deck.
Do you think it's a good idea to remove some cunning wishes? (I've removed the brain freezes and flashes of insight so the wishes are the only win conditin on the MD)
I'm sorry, but I'm really having a hard time understanding this comment. It's one thing to say that you don't like Snapcaster Mage - that's fair enough - but to say that you don't like it because it's a three card combo is just silly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spigore
Because we already play a deck that requires a three card combo.
We need High Tide, Untap, and Meditate. Sure, you can make it work with only two of those and an additional draw spell which finds you the missing piece, but unless you are going off with plenty of lands in play, those three elements are non-negotiable.
You need High Tide to produce mana. You need one or more untap spells to refresh your mana. And you need a card advantage engine so that you can keep finding and casting spells while drawing dead cards and casting more untap spells.
The difference is, our current three card combo can fizzle. You can Meditate into 3 Islands and Force of Will. This three card combo is guarenteed in the absence of disruption.
Snapcaster may well turn out to be disappointing for all sorts of reasons, but assembling the above combo is no harder than assembling the combo we already use.
Edit @ Zinch: I'm going to wait until all of Innistrad is spoiled before I start any serious testing; I'm hoping that Snapcaster is not the only toy we'll be getting.
Very interesting playout! I'm more amazed by the potential of the deck to play Snaps than anything else, since a 'dead' snap against an opponent is no longer dead when playing with a higher density of Snapcasters (it's basically a storm-generating untapper). Playing enough copies of Snaps/Snapcasters will finally make Intuition a worthy demonic tutor in the deck, since any copies in the yard is only to be further abused with Snapcaster. It's really amazing how Intuition sets up the combo by finding Snap/Snapcaster/High Tide etc, but all the cards in the yard only further sets up for an eventual win if Snapcaster resolves. Snap is also REALLY good in the meta right now. And if the meta does shift away from aggro to control/combo/discard, Flusterstorm is all you need to win the game against those matchups (except against Extirpate).Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent Requiem
The only risk I see is opponents fighting the deck with Extirpates if it ever gets powerful enough, now that REALLY hurts a build with Snapcasters (because playing against Extirpate with just Extirpate on high-tide is difficult enough). But that shouldn't be the reason why one shouldn't play/test with Snapcasters, because not all decks will play Extirpate.
I've tried intuition and I think it's too much expensive for this deck (at least until we remove the wishes, wich I don't think it's a good idea...)
The deck I'm testing now is this:
4 High Tide
4 Reset
1 Snap
2 Turnabout
3 Meditate
3 Cunning Wish
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Opt
4 Brainstorm
2 Peer Through Depths
4 Impulse
4 Force of Will
4 Remand
10 Fetchlands
9 Islands
The mages help a lot with the consistency. Sometimes they can act as a demonic tutor and chump block at the same time!
Anyone has done any testing?
Another idea. Now that counterbalance is almost dead, have anyone tried one tropical (on the MD) and Autumn's Veil in the SB? With so many MM and counterspells around it seems like a good idea to me
Why only 1 Snap? Flashback will excile it. So you can cast it only twice.
I wasn't sure to remove all the turnabouts, but maybe is the way to go... Did anyone that removed the turnabouts had any problem against storm combo or PW.deck when opponent don't have any creature?
With only 3 creatures of my own I see it a little unreliable against decks without creatures
Hey SR,
Snapcaster Mage is a very good card. Don't get me wrong. But to put it into Solidarity, requires the deck to make slots open for;
- SCMage
- Snap
- Intuition
I'm running a 9-card counterpackage consistiong of FoW/MM and Remand. Imho, this shouldn't be touched at all.
For now, I have cut 2 Turnabout, 2 Opt, 1 Wish, 1 Brain Freeze, 1 Meditate, 2 Visions of Beyond (!). Added 3 Mage, 3 Snap, 3 Intuition
It's hard to choose cards to leave the MB since, when running the new combopackage, you're still in the need of cantripping and drawing.
Testing gave me an awkward feeling; very hard to get the engine working, since a shitload of times, SCM didn't find any good targets to hit with his insane ability. At a point during your combo, you really need to hit a cantrip/draw to keep going. It would be better to play the second Brain Freeze again and cast it on yourself in your opponent's eot-step; get some cards in the graveyard before comboing off.
I do have to add that at the fewer times I had access to Intuition and SCM, it's all over. The combo is solid, protects itself very well (counterwars are more easy now; SCM on Fstorm -.-) and ups the stormcount like crazy.
At the moment we're not really playing a 3-card combo the way I see it. Basically you need a Tide, Reset/Turnabout, plus any draw/cantrip in the form of a VoB/Meditate/FoI/BSZ/Brainstorm. It's less reliable on the particular cards.
I really need to test a lot more, since the optimal list is far from what I'm playing at the moment. The new card has a lot of potential but really requires the deck to step away from the cards which it has been playing over the years.
Interested in SCM: yes
Convinced by SCM: no
I believe you should consider cutting the Remands. Snapcaster Mage allows you to replay counterspells, High Tides and Brain Freezes from your grave. I believe Snapcaster Mage does most of Remand's tricks, and much more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spigore
I know that when your opponent plays their Counterbalance/Gaddock/Cannonist on turn two and you have SCM in hand you'll damn him, but Counterbalance is off the radar and you have Snap MD to handle the dudes.
I did try not to post, i control myself to the out most impulse of tipping any letter in this thread, but i can't hold on any more...
Enlightened ones, people with exceptional power to play this deck (yes all of you who post in this Thread - with some exception): Shut up, and do yourself a favor, sit your ass down with good magic players play some games (some, about 100 per archetype, real games) and get a sheet and wright done every interaction that the mage alows + the mana it cost + the conditions it requiers + the cards your deck need to have...
So enlightened ones when you reach the damn conclusion that the things you have to cut are either your hands (since they can't handle the deck because you prefer to deck build than to play 5000 games to understand things you clearly don't) or you can cut high tide, meditate, flash of insight, impulse, reset, turnabout etc you'll go play mono red goblins...
To others that lazy didn't want to use bounces on creatures (but later want to add bounces): you may ignore my comments and etc but you'll keep getting the same conclusions i did, if your way of solidarity is different of mine than your way is not getting victory, because that my way... if you ever would desire to work on the list for competitive tournaments (GPT, GP Amsterdam etc) will extended my invitation to you and you can pm me, since of course i m not going to discuss important things in an open forum...
last comment: Spigore although i don't agree with some maindeck options you have (misstep, etc) at least you tested the card and not assume that it's brilliant...
After all of you realize that there's not even enough time to understand that the creature is good or not (my guess is that it isn't brilliant), because i hope that you'll really are going to test and not just post something about your idea of if the creature work or not, solidarity players are going to gather around playing the deck instead of building something in the deck...
Sera, I don't ever see you on MSN anymore. What happened? T_T :cry:
Let's talk there?
LOL sorry dude with facebook and dwo i almost never turn msn on!
I believe that this archetype is in need of an overhaul once snapcaster mage is available. I've been debating going wishless, instead using a list with intuition's over cunning wish, some snap's, obviously SCM, and the usual package of reset, turnabout, high tide, etc. etc. Testing will tell whether or not SCM is the nuts but I believe it is the nuts; at worst, SCM cantrips with an opt in the GY on turn 3 and chump blocks to buy us more time. At best, he wins us a critical counterwar by flashbacking flusterstorm, remand, misstep, or if we have an overabundance of mana FoW itself, he flashbacks a critical spell to continue the chain such as reset, meditate, or high tide itself to get to critical mana, or he flashbacks a card we got pitched off of intuition to continue the chain.
The upside to not having cunning wish in this deck is we get to run a full 15 card SB. We can then tackle multiple MUs better if we dedicate X slots to aggro, Y to combo, and Z to control so we have an easier time games 2 and 3 if game 1 went ill.
The number of interactions SCM has with this deck is obscene.
I'm considering running gifts ungiven with SCM as well. The standard gifts pile would be SCM, noxious revival, and 2 of your choice. Sure Gifts is 4 mana but now we can effectively utilize it with 2 recursion cards in SCM and noxious and 2 other sweet cards like stroke and brain freeze, meditate and reset, etc. etc. And its about time gifts ungiven got some love in legacy IMHO since the card can be busted as hell.
Hi guys, particularly Silent Requium, you may remeber me from UK Nationals... with some choice zombie tokens xD... forgive me if I was a little giddy, I'm quite new to legacy... soooo, sorry about that, the deck seems awesome (Solidarity), alot of fun to play against for a control player (we had an awesome counter-war :P....