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In my experience, especially with 4 Spell Snares boarded in, Remand often doesn't effectively do these things. Remanding is often dangerous because of Daze, It happens a lot that you already have the Spell Snare to counter the SB or Goyf, and Remanding your own spells to free it from counters is barely useable because of the clock Thresh put's up.Quote:
Originally Posted by lavafrogg
Ok lets say that happens. Their Goyf hits the table. Can you not still race them? That is one less counter you have to worry about so going off should be easier. In your testing what has been the clock that Threshold has put up?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahamuth
Daze is usually barely an issue while going off. It's usually a combination of hard counters and Stifle that kills me. When Goyf hits the table, your whole plan has to change, because of the additional clock. When you're able to make sure the Goyf doesn't hit the table, you have much more time, and therefore a much stronger hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by revenge_inc
I thought I'd cheer you guys up with a top8 that includes, not only one, but TWO Solidaritys!
And guess what won?
http://morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=812
Don't know how big that tournament was or anything, but I think I've heard of Simon Ritzka before..?
Anyway, I always have this warm feeling when I see Soli top8 so I thought I'd share this joy with you guys.
Simon Ritzka is also known as Van Phanel. :)
Btw. I am going to attend in a small tournament in about 2 hours, testing my latest list (and my latest SB, above all). I'll try to take some notes for writing a report.
/Edit: 4 players, 3 rounds, 2/1/0 in matches, 4/2/0 in games.
1st round against Alex playing Burn - 2-0
1st game I comboed him out on his 8th turn. Although I had 7 islands in play, I was at 2 life, knowing he has got a Fireblast and a Lightning Bolt (thx to Peek, this card was amazing during the whole tournament). Cakewalk.
- 1 Opt
- 1 Remand
+ 2 Spell Snare (assuming he's going to board Pyrostatic Pillar)
2nd game I have to win though 8 (!!!) REBs, omfg. So I start comboing with High Tide, he blasts it. I turnabout his lands in response, leaving him with 3 red mana and 3 REBs (thx Peek, you're fucking amazing, really). We proceed to the Combat Phase, emptying the mana pool. gg :smile:
2nd round against Pascal playing Mono Black Pox - 0-2
Adult explicit, as Pox rapes Soli very hardcore.
3rd round against anonyme playing UWb Landstill - 2-0
1st game I've got Brain Freeze for lethal on the stack, he's got an active Academy Ruins (so he cannot deck himself). I go for Cunning Wish, resolves, gg (Wish for Wipe Away, wiping his Ruins). He instantly scoops in response. :laugh:
You might know him because he was close to top8ing in GP Bruessels. The tournament you mention - I attended it - consisted of about 21 participants. I guess over the next week we'll have more Fish/Threshold because Soli just seems to get out of control *exaggerating*. By the way, I beat Soli with Enchantress 2-0 today *proud* ;-) ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by deviant
There actually were 25 players.
Solidarity really is the deck to play in our local meta (currently) as there haven't been more than one or two Treshhold in the last months.
The reason for this could be that we have Marius Hausmann (Wasteland) and 1-3 other Landstill players and also some Aggro-Loam and those decks really give Treshhold a hard time. I fear that this might change during the next weeks however. At some point at the beginning of 2007 we had a meta roughly like that with Solidarity winning all the time and some weeks later there were 6 (!) Hanni-Fish (and some Deadguy) in 20 players.
Back to topic however: At our local tournament I again managed to go 4-0-1 with a split in round five this time running 2 Cryptic Command in the maindeck. They took the place of the maindeck Spell Snares I had before, so I had the following list:
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
12 Island
4 High Tide
4 Brainstorm
4 Opt
4 Reset
4 Impulse
3 Remand
2 Brain Freeze
3 Cunning Wish
3 Meditate
3 Turnabout
2 Cryptic Command
4 Force of Will
2 Flash of Insight
Sideboard:
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Brain Freeze
1 Meditate
1 Turnabout
3 Spell Snare
3 Echoing Truth
2 Wipe Away
3 Hydroblast
I first moved both Spell Snares to the sideboard. Then I decided that 4 Spell Snare + 2 Command + 2 Wipe Away is too much, even against Counterbalance, and I wouldn't know what to board out anyway, so I cut one of the Spell Snares. Rebuild then was an obvious cut as Cryptic Command already makes it easier to play through Chalice.
I can absolutely recommend the Cryptic Commands. They are incredibly flexible and do what you need and when you need it. In every single match I played it at least twice and I never regretted drawing it. They are worse than Spell Snare against combo, but in any other matchup they really shine. Try them and I'd wonder if you don't like them.
Edit: Another option would be going down to 1 Wipe Away solely as Wishtarget and readd the fourth Spell Snare. Still I really like 2 Wipe Away in my deck after boarding. Thoughts?
Has anybody thougth in putting in from side 4 tarmogoyf. I think this 4 copies of such a good card could improve the ThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh match up which is our worst one. In extendeed i ve seen a tron deck having in side the 4 tarmogoyfs¡¡¡
Why not figting fire with fire?
That would be a good idea if this were Mono Blue Control. Thats exactly what Extended did. However...this is a combo deck. Tarmogoyf just doesn't belong here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelikanudo
The only creature that would have some synergy with the deck as a SB plan would be Quirion Dryad, but playtests from before didn't seem to give much positive feedback.
How bad is the threshold MU? Is it auto loss? or is it around 40-60/45-55 Can any one advise me on the new lists?
It is pretty bad. They get all their disruption online and have a clock. It is more like 30-70 with something like UGb. Thoughtseize, Force, Balnce, Daze and Goyf just kill.
Other then threshold what are this decks worst MUs?
Do you have trouble going off vs dragonstompy with the chalices+3 sphears?
Are the fetches good? they make the mana base disruptable
How are other combo MUs?
Thresh is not 30/70. It's more like 40/60. The TempoThresh matchup is really hard to play, but it's doable. UGw Thresh is easiest of all, because it has such a slow clock. UGb is probably harder, but not undoable.Quote:
Originally Posted by undone
The only other really bad matchup is Sui Black (or other variants). Also here, you can probably get to 40/60 is you play it well, but usually this matchup is completely dependant on your opponent's skills and luck (just as with Thresh, but less luck there). Resolving a Meditate and countering the right threats can usually win you the game.
Dragon Stompy is a favourable matchup. The deck has too little threats to pose a too quick clock to us paired with disruption. Countering the Threats withh usually buy you plenty of time to Wish for Rebuild and win after resolving the rebuild.
It's quite possible to win trough 3Phere, but it's hard. You need at least 5 land, preferably more. It's also possible to win trough Chalice 1, but that's really not fun to do....
I know the fetches seem bad, I think the same. They are, however, absolutely needed. Brainstorm is a really really crappy card without fetches, and it doesn't even give you the opportunity to properly fix your hand without it. I went back to 5 Fetchland some time ago, and I like it. I might even try 4.
The combo matchup is, from my experience, quite close. I've played the TES matchup way to much, and I can tell it's probably close to 45/55. It's unfavourable, but not much. You present TES with a really really quick clock, and aside from that, a whole load of cantrips to find FoW, Remand and Spell Snare.
Belcher has to be positive, I'm pretty sure. With 3 Echoing Truth SB, I can quite safely say the deck's gonna have a hard time winning.
I don't know enough about Fetchland Tendrills yet. The newer lists are slow and play Doomsday, which is both great for us. The do have more Chant's than TES tough, so it needs more testing.
Your list looks very decent, congratulations for your results.Quote:
Originally Posted by Van Phanel
Is Spell Snare really that hot against combo nowadays? I'm not complaining, I just haven't been playing Solidarity now for over a year and am not so up to date with it's performance nowadays. In general, it's excellent in legacy as majority of the business costs 2 mana. I tried it like a year agot but it didn't feel that good. Now it might truly work as goyfs run all over the format.
Cryptic Command is an obvious and excellent idea. I think it's crucial to have one bounce spell maindecked and command is even more than a bounce. Counter + bounce timewalks aggro decks and it is just a perfect utility card for solidarity. It might even take the deck back to higher tiers. 2 looks like a good number to run them.
Any experience playing against modern Painter's Servant decks?
Well, the main reason for Spell Snare is to fight Counterbalance. The other targets (Meddling Mage, Burning Wish, Infernal Tutor, Tarmogoyf, Counterspell and to some extent Hymn to Tourach and Werebear come to mind) are nice to take out yet I personally wouldn't play Spell Snare in the current meta if it couldn't deal with Counterbalance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopo
You know, I just had this stupid idea: The matchups we should improve are Thresh, Sui Blackish decks and perhaps combo. What does that better than CB/Top? It would take up 6 SB slots, but I can see it buying you immense amounts of time against both Thresh and Sui. Also, it's good against every form of Thresh, while Spell Snare generally only targets Goyf in the tempothresh matchup.
Actually I came up with the same idea and tested it in Spring Tide (it is more logical for me to use non-instant cards in that deck) but the results weren't as good as I wanted. However the more time you buy with Solidarity the bigger the power of Reset gets, so it might turn out better, but it needs some testing.
how do you guys play against the loam matchup?it's pretty heavily played in my belgian meta.
most of the time is just play my spells without giving any priority(keeping reset meditate and other stuff on teh stack to let it resolve all a once then,and if needed to react on other spells still on the stack)on the other hand,if to many duresses and tseizes come,i'm screwed anyway...
any ideas to improve that matchup?
Loam is an incredibly broad description for a deck. I can just guess you are talking about Aggro-Loam/b. Correct?
If so, that matchup doesn't need any improvement. You can still easily win past some discard. Their clock is annoying but not at all unbeatable and generally a turn slower than Goblins. Just don't ever let Devastating Dreams resolve when they have a thread in play (that was obvious I guess).
As discard generally means that they don't play guys, you should have enough time to find your next High Tide. Apart from that the general things about playing against discard + Extirpate apply:
- Use Brainstorm only when you have to as it can hide your important cards.
- If your hand is wrecked, play Meditate precombo, but do this with caution in this matchup as they might have Dreams or a really fast growing Crusher.
- Prevent Cunning Wish from getting hit by Extirpate over anything else if you can (this doesn't apply if you're winning right when they Extirpate Wish obviously).
- Prevent copies of cards in your hand from getting hit by playing as you described above.
In addition to that, my approach for the matchup would be:
- I, personally, board out one High Tide when playing against discard in order to have access to 6 High Tides postboard.
- Play Cryptic Command. It is huge against any deck fighting fair (any deck that is not Combo) as it produces cardadvantage while dealing with your biggest problem.
That said, every single decision with the deck is situational. I can't repeat that often enough. Use everything you got as good as you can and I'd expect the matchup to be around 60-40.