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My intention was not to have blinders on or focus on a narrow aspect of the Avenger/Flickerwisp comparison. In fact the potential for Flickerwisp interactions is one of the main reasons I'm arguing for it.
If it "just doesn't work" for you, then I'd understand why you'd want to replace it with something else. I guess my point is to make sure you don't lose sight of Flickerwisp's flexibility in the light of Avenger's extreme efficiency.
Personally I ended up cutting the Avengers several months ago in favor of Mirran Crusader, it give another reason to take vial to 3 and the pro green can be very relevant against maverick and pro black vs. germ tokens. Also if you need to hard cast it you can do so on turn 3 instead of turn 4 with avenger.
@ron paul
you found thalia not enough to balance out the combo matchup.
But in what other matchups did you find find her useful (other then her being a lightning rod)
Hey everybody, I am the guy who played in the SCG event and made the top 4 at Dallas. The thing about all the three drops in the deck is that, so much of our deck relies on great 2 drops. There is no doubt that Thalia has been a HUGE gift to our deck, stoneforge mystic is incredibly powerful, vialing in revoker is often a blindside hit (especially since they cant really respond to the naming) when you vial it in in response to their jace or knight. You can also vial in an excellent surprise blocker like grunt or avenger.Quote:
Originally Posted by kirbysdl
Ticking your vial up to 3 causes things to change immensely with your play style. You can't go back down to 2, so there's a definite permanence once you go to 3. Let's ignore the cutesy flickerwisping your vial to reset you to zero. That will set you back way to far in terms of tempo and waste the main ability you are running flickerwisp for. You also have to start playing around spell snare and can't reasonably protect your great and numerous 2 drops from countermagic.
So, IMO, ticking up to 3 is the right call when you have:
1) Multiple flickerwisps in your hand, and you are behind and somewhat in need of its ability. This is somewhat temporary and when you play all of your flickerwisps, if you havent gained control of the game, your Vial is dead.
2) You have Karakas and Mangara to establish a firm mangara lock. This is a good reason to go to 3.
3) You have Mangara and Flickerwisps to gain some card advantage and beaters. This is also somewhat temporary and you need to gain control of the game here as well.
The inclusion of more 3 drops is a possibility, but I just havent liked crusader in the deck. I also have not been happy with flickerwisp's abilities w/o vial, so increasing the chances of me seeing it without a vial doesn't excite me.
Also, loading up on 3 drops is absolutely a death knell if you don't have a vial in the opening hand, especially considering how fast the format is right now.
She is good in every matchup except Maverick (even then she is sometimes a smother for your opponents Thalia). And I have found Thalia + 1 other "piece" (Mom, canonist, karakas, vial) to be enough against combo (excluding belcher) in most games.Quote:
Originally Posted by overseer1234
Just to be clear, Not many people would advocate adding more 3-drops. Fry's the first I've heard of in a while. I'd just warn against dropping too many of the existing ones, as you further limit the usefulness of that vial-at-three endgame state.
Personally, I have yet to see good reason to go down to fewer than 4 Flickerwisps. Sure, hardcasting it may suck, but you can't spell snare it (unlike a LOT of our deck) it's ability resets delvers, walkers and pops swords off. The toughness of 1 is basically a non-issue; in legacy, lightning bolt and swords trump all other removal. In this case, Wisp and Avenger are basically the same, and at least the wisp can stall.
interestingly enough, Ron, Flickerwisp is great for your cataclysms.
@Teferi Planeswalker - congrats on the finish. any changes that you'd make to your deck? I wanted a 3rd mangara after playing as I ran 2 also. your thoughts?
Totally off topic, but when did we start advertising GOP campaigns on The Source?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Paul 4 Freedom
I personally am for newt.Quote:
Originally Posted by RaNDoMxGeSTuReS
@overseer
Thalia is good for a lot of things. the first strike is very relevant. stands up well against goblin guide. good to put equipment on, esp jitte. the blue/white decks tend to run more spells so they will use a stp on her, then that leaves it open for an active stoneforge. the two pox decks i played didn't like her. blue/red delver hated thalia. being able to bounce with karakas was nice also. not like the most impressive card ever but i think it fits the deck
Hi guys!
I've been playing this deck for quite a year now and I'm very satisfied with it. I'm writing because I'd like to read your suggestions and experiences for sideboarding against Nic Fit and Maverick. I mean: going to the local store's tournaments I'm always expecting to face these matchups, what should I bring in my sideboard?
PS: I'm sorry for my english.
I believe the best you can do against Maverick and Nic-Fit is to bring pro-green swords (besides Sword of Light and Shadow) and Mirran Crusaders. Sword of Body and Mind seems good here, as the wolves may deal with Liliana while Revoker names Deed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leghorn
In fact, I'm trying to find a way to improve my Maverick matchup. My meta is full of Maverick so I want to guarantee a better result. It is currently pretty even as they've learned to play a lot of basics some time ago. I've been using SoBaM in place of SoFaI in this match, but it sometimes backfires feeding their Kinights. Maybe SoFaF is better here?
SoFaF is good against both Nic Fit and Mav, as it allows you to utililize your lands for both mana and abilities, while forcing them to discard/choose a hatepiece. However, Feast and Famine is weaker in the late game imo, and Light & shadow gives you everything you need: recursion of lost dudes, lifegain to prevent death, protection from removal, and a way to block kotr/sun titan/grave titan/batterskull. To be perfectly honest, all of the new Swords from Scars block are crap compared to the original two.Quote:
Originally Posted by lebarion
in terms of siding, take out Thalias for:
Oust(s)
Oblivion Ring(s)
Revoker(s)
Ensnaring Bridge
Phyrexian Metamorph (Batterskull, Thrun, KotR, Terravore, Titans, opposing jitte, et. al.)
Make sure to keep in:
Managara/flickerwisp--both, if played correctly, are excellent
Mom
STP
Grunt
Stoneforge/Jitte
I'll go up to 4 equipments adding a SoFaF, then.Quote:
Originally Posted by lebarion
Oh yes, that's what I was looking for. Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbed Blightning
I was also wondering if Leonin Arbiter/Aven Mindcensor are worth some slots in my 75 against these decks (especially Maverick: KotR, Stoneforge, Zenith). What do you guys think?
This would probably depend on your meta. I would definitely not run 4. Since my metagame is more aggro, I swapped the 3rd mangara with a batterskull, and it worked out really well. There was just 1 time when I thought that I really needed a mangara, and I was able to stall a couple of turns and luckily draw into it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Paul 4 Freedom
I feel like since a lot of decks that have white are just throwing in random Karakas, mangara's applications become much more limited. Against these decks, I'm always happy to blow up their karakas with my karakas. Also, playing thalia into their karakas often acts like a rishadan port, which often times works well with the land denial package that I have usually set up..
Not really, imo. Yeah, it's great and all to stop their fetches, but the pain Arbiter causes and the 3-cost of mindcensor has never panned out well for me. I'd rather had e tutor targets in my SB. Or extra removal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leghorn
It's not just great for fetches, but for Green Sun's Zenith, Stoneforge Mystic, Infernal Tutor, Merchant Scroll, and countless other powerful plays. The top tables at major events are almost guaranteed to sport several copies of some of those cards, not to mention fetchlands.
You have to consider how you might add it. If your meta justifies maindeck inclusion, and you can find room, then knock yourself out. In the sideboard, the space is also precious. Keep in mind that a single tutor target translates into a playset's chance of drawing a powerful card. Each sideboard slot thus represents a lot of power against an entire strategy, and using 2-3 such slots for Mindcensor/Arbiter has a huge opportunity cost.
Yes, disrupting search strategies is great but many things are great. As per my sig, the problem is finding room for everything you want to include.
Well, our deck will start to become even more poorly positioned. Zealous persecution is a VERY good card right now and if people are even starting to play Night of Souls' Betrayal, then this deck will have to find something to adapt.
I understand your point and I know well your sig :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by kirbysdl
Anyway, since my meta is full of Maverick and Nic Fit decks, and the only combos are Elves and Hive Mind (impossible matchup and the guy is the luckiest mtg player I've ever seen), Aven Mindcensor seems better than Thalia and I'll give him a chance.
Clearly, in bigger tournaments I won't replace Thalia with anything else.
Everyone's been scared of these cards for a while now. Need I remind you guys that we have Wastelands AND rishadan port? Sure, if one of these hate pieces sticks it's bad, but by the time they can actually play them, you should have an Avenger/Wisp/Grunt with a Sword on them. Obviously, SoLaS is the better option, as they cannot remove the creature without first ridding them of the equip, and you can get your dudes back with it. Dread of Night is the only one that I fear, and honestly you can still keep a stoneforge through that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teferi Planeswalker
If these become an actual problem and we have no means of dealing with them, take out a flcikerwisp for an Avenger. 3/3 means she could care less.