Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jak.
God do I hate it when people justify running weak cards that by saying they shore up the early game. No, Mana Leak doesn't. It is still a turn too slow to counter Tops, Kird Apes, Lackey, Vial, Nacatl. Mana Leak is a mid game card. The fact that it becomes completely dead later in the game is horrible.
Personally, I wouldn't run either of them. If you are looking for a heavier counter suite, go for Counterspells. Build your mana base correctly so that you can get the UU on turn 2 when you need it.
Counterspell is still too slow for the cards you mentioned. And again, we are not talking of Md stategies, but of Sb strategies. You wouldn't bring in counterspell from the sb for apes, lackey, vial and nacatl, I suppose... If you were going to add counters to the sb, I'd almost certainly choose negate, because:
-less specific mana required that counterspell;
-I don't mind bring counters in to counter creature spells (thing which both CS and mana leak do), I'll just side in removals;
-psychological effect: people would play cautiously when the see UU, they're not ready for threats coming from a generic 1U.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Alright chick-lits, lets start from the top:
Rule of law: is not worth playing. Plain and simple. It's too slow, it doesn't win you the game; and thus if your in the lead "if you run counterbalance" your already winning, and thus there is no need to stretch your permanent base. I hear overextending is a bad thing.
2cc counter debate. Mana leak is strong. No one is doubting the power of it. Is it as strong as counterspell; obviously not. Can it trick people potentially, yes. Is it stronger then negate. ABSOLUTELY not.
Negate is a hard counter, mana leak is not. That should be the end of it.
As for siding in negate you side in negate against everything thats not pure aggro, which is basicly goblins,Slivers,merfolk. for those you side in your aggresive removal spells ala plague path shackles ect. Negate does come in against zoo because of fireblast "if you don't run counterspell." You need to be able to stop their shenanigans, and stopping their blasts is also helpfull. Its better against combo then counter spell because of the cc.
Quote:
psychological effect: people would play cautiously when the see UU, they're not ready for threats coming from a generic 1U.
-Gustha
As I mentioned in the private messege to you and you are repeating for everyone else as sort of a "duh" comment. This is fundamentally the best part of the card.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Played in the Annual C.C.C. tourney around here locally. 3-0-1 splitting in the finals to merfolk. "Wanted to go home early."
2-0: 12 land Stompy
G1: He casts small creatures that he then procedes to target with pump. I send them farming.
G2: He gets off the cute trick with Kavu Predator+2x Invigorate with my mull to five "7c 1 colorless, 6c 1 colorless, 5c 1 colorless 1sea 1colorless keep."
I force the second invigorate "dumb move." After he swings I go eot second top into path-fetch-crap."
untap drap, draw from top, fetch, send kavu farming and swing with Mishra's. 17 turns later mishra's goes the distance.
2-0: Power Mill
G1: He gets the nuts and I have no spell snare. He lands double disc 10 and double enchant whenever you play a spell dis 4 before I get anything but mishra's factory. Then I draw decree on 7 land+Elspeth= He has no answer and I beat him with 21 cards left.
G2: Much better I as I sided in my control and swept him with multiple counters as well as beaters. He never got me below 30.
2-0: White Weenie
G1: Double standstill into top-jace-humility-elspeth-disk-decree for 5 ANGELS gg nubcakes. Oh and yes I had to disk away my humility but elspeth locked him out thanx to indestructable disk. Oh how sexy indestructable angels are.
G2: He gets a slow hand, allowing me to resolve broken draw spells, then drop 4cc bombs repetitively again. I clean him up with vendillion+Elspeth.
1-1-1: Mefolk
I show him "My buddy my sideboarding plan, and he says wow 17 removal seems like too much." I say lets split and I won't make you cry. He agrees and we both go home early.
The only changes were crappy cutts because I don't have all the cards for my online version right now. I played a disk in the 24th mana slot and instead of negate+ Fracturing gust+Shackles I ran 2 counterspell 2beb 1 + path. It worked just fine, and probobly won me the discard matchup.
Final thoughts:
Negate although giving up the counter anything is stronger then counter spell for the sideboard. I would have been perfectly happy with 3 negate. I am securing the 3 slots now and it will be played in my standard lists.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
@gustha
I was actually saying that it is difficult for you to make generalizations about actions that depend entirely on gameplay conditions. The fact that Negate cannot counter creature spells is definitely a problem against a deck that consists mostly of creatures, as your primary threat will be from the cards your Negate cannot deal with.
I'm not really talking about siding in permission. I typically keep my permission maindeck and use it when deemed proper. So I have no opinion in this regard.
I use 4/2 Swords/Path, 3/3 EE/Wrath as my maindeck removal. Still, I find I often have to use Counterspell and Force of Will against aggro decks in order to get a Standstill down on a controlled board.
My deck is typically more in line with Konsultant's. It's very traditional and well-rounded to deal with multiple threats. The only difference is that I don't run black; I maintain the "old" UWg build. Anyhow, the element of luck is definitely a factor one needs to consider, and I feel one should mitigate its impacts as best as possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gustha
-psychological effect: people would play cautiously when the see UU, they're not ready for threats coming from a generic 1U.
Errr... to be honest, one should never play comfortably against any deck that runs blue. This is because everyone and their mom runs Force of Will.
@Jak.
Mana Leak is not weak. And to say early game is not important is silly.
In my opinion, it is tough to determine what qualifies as midgame. The term is ambiguous enough to render it indeterminable.
I fail to see how Negate or Counterspell does any better in countering turn one spells. And Negate would not be able to stop a turn two Kird Ape (assuming you wanted to).
I do run Counterspell. I just don't think Negate is a better substitute than Mana Leak for Counterspell.
@mossivo1986
I agree. The reason why I took out my Arcane Laboratory is because it was only worthwhile against one deck.
Negate is a conditional hard counter. It doesn't counter creature spells, thus, it might not be nearly as useful against an aggro deck where every card you have is needed to stop creatures from hitting the board and making a mess out of your life points.
I don't really have an opinion on siding in permission, but wouldn't Mana Leak just be as effective, if not more, against a deck that aims to win early?
I agree that Negate is better against combo decks. But that is because they often do not depend on creatures.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gustha
Counterspell is still too slow for the cards you mentioned. And again, we are not talking of Md stategies, but of Sb strategies. You wouldn't bring in counterspell from the sb for apes, lackey, vial and nacatl, I suppose... If you were going to add counters to the sb, I'd almost certainly choose negate, because:
-less specific mana required that counterspell;
-I don't mind bring counters in to counter creature spells (thing which both CS and mana leak do), I'll just side in removals;
-psychological effect: people would play cautiously when the see UU, they're not ready for threats coming from a generic 1U.
You obviously misunderstood my post. Taishaku was the one saying he was running Mana Leak as an early game counter. I pointed out how it wasn't. If you are going to run a 2cc counter, run Counterspell.
@Taishaku
Again, Mana Leak is not an early game counter. It still doesn't deal with Apes, Nacatls, Vials, Cursecatchers, etc. Playing it "for the early game" is the wrong application for the card.
Again, running a 2cc counter other than Counterspell just seems wrong. Unless your mana base is totally fucked and you are way heavy white, than you may have a point, but not running something that answers everything is incredibly important.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jak.
You obviously misunderstood my post. Taishaku was the one saying he was running Mana Leak as an early game counter. I pointed out how it wasn't. If you are going to run a 2cc counter, run Counterspell.
I didn't say I ran Mana Leak as an early game counter; I run 4 Counterspell and I rush UU+W. All I said that I felt Mana Leak is a better replacement than Negate for Counterspell. Oo
Once again, Negate doesn't deal with those cards either; neither does Counterspell, nor Spell Snare. In fact, Daze doesn't even deal with it unless you go first and play an Island.
I think you need to actually read my posts... I am strictly speaking about using Mana Leak over Negate. I with you and personally don't think Counterspell should be cut from decklists at all. But some people are saying Negate should be used over Counterspell to get an early WW.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
For me this looks like 4 people talking about the same cards but in fact about a totally different topic :D Maybe you should define your opinion more precisely ;)
For me Negate is a SB Card at best but as I never have slots their it´s not my topic this time.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
I took UWb Wish-still to the SCG 5K event in Boxboro, MA yesterday. It was my final hurrah for the summer as I’ll be away from the game for probably 3-4 months. Overall it was a great time, but a long day. I played a removal-heavy list tuned for an expected aggro metagame. Before the tournament someone remarked that they see a lot of red in the room, which did not excite me. Last minute I decided to run Propaganda over Engineered Plague for it’s blue-ness, ability to screw Ichorid hard, and providing a decent game against tribal aggro. Anyway, here’s the list:
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
1 Underground Sea
4 Tundra
2 Island
3 Plains
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
1 Academy Ruins
1 Scrubland
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Eternal Dragon
3 Decree of Justice
3 Brainstorm
3 Standstill
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Force of Will
4 Spell Snare
2 Cunning Wish
1 Path to Exile
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Wrath of God
3 Engineered Explosives
SB:
2 Ajani Goldmane
2 Crucible of Worlds
3 Meddling Mage
3 Propaganda
1 Path to Exile
1 Extirpate
1 Pulse of the Fields
1 Hydroblast
1 Return to Dust
I was going to try to write a brief report, but apparently I can’t do it. I forgot to bring my notes to work, so this is 100% from memory.
Round 1 – Tim with UGr (I think?) CounterTop
Game 1: I keep Counterbalance off the board, the rest is easy.
Game 2: Same. Elspeth with Force backup gets there.
1-0
Round 2 – Will with Eva Green
Game 1: He goes for t1 Hippie, I Force. He goes for t2 Hippie – resolves. He overextends and beats me to low life. I have to Fetch Top away to hit my t4 land drop and Wrath. He draws minimal threats for the rest of the game and I eventually win.
Game 2: I have a tough time answering Hynpnotic Specters again. Reanimate is also annoying. He plays Deed and I struggle to stay alive with 1 decree token and a Factory. Eventually he’s able to Deed away my Factory and win.
Game 3: I force an early Hippie. He makes a Goyf. He plays Reanimate and says “Reanimate Hypnotic Specter, I mean Eternal Dragon”. I couldn’t let it slide, which he understands. We go to time and draw. I would have lost that game were we not in the extra turns.
*Side Note: During this match my friend Josh came over early in Game 1. I asked him if he won already, and he said that his deck was stolen after round 1. He was playing UGbr CounterTop, so that was not a cheap deck. What a kick in the nuts. In between rounds he and Ben Lukas were working on rebuilding it largely due to the generosity of other players lending cards. Props to rockout for dishing out a playset of Goyfs among other stuff, especially considering Josh said he barely knows rockout.
1-0-1
Round 3 – Ben “ForceofWill” Lukas with Elf combo.
Game 1: This game feels very casual because I play against Ben semi-regularly at local events. I have no idea how to play this matchup and have to read every other card he plays. I apparently don’t read Wirewood Symbiote and attempt to StP a Nettle Sentinel. I’ve got to live up to my username, right? I draw a few more Swords (which I actually play correctly) and eventually recurring EE. I have Force for Natural Order. Factories get there.
Game 2: I Wrath his board. He gets greedy with Summoner’s Pact while attempting to combo and having only 3 lands in play. During his upkeep he Pacts again for a Spirit guide and hopes to draw land. He doesn’t.
2-0-1
Round 4 – Tariq with UWb Landstill(!!)
Game 1: I know we both have 7 points, so when he leads with Tundra I’m automatically thinking mirror. Sure enough it is, and my build is relatively weak in it. I punt this game by not playing a pre-emptive EE at 0 and swing my Factory into Decree tokens. He draws all 3 of his Factories and wins. It doesn’t help that he plays Vindicate + Counterspell on top of Wish -> Negate.
Game 2: This game takes FOREVER. I have Ajani forever and I’m at like 38 life. We both draw nothing for about 15 turns, he had to shuffle his Top away at one point. I have mine, plus many fetches, but I can’t find Factory. He Vindicates one Elspeth and plays one of his into my second one. He has EE at 0 to keep my avatar off the board. I finally find my own EE, blow his, make a 38/38 avatar. He StPs me to 76 fucking life. He Vindicates my Ajani the turn after I get it to 6 counters (I also missed a few activations because I’m terrible). Time is called. I find Decree but he has one of his own and I can’t kill him.
I asked Tariq if he posts here and he said he does not, but he seemed to be a pretty skilled Landstill pilot so hopefully he’ll join and contribute to the discussion here.
2-1-1
Round 5 – Scott with UGbw CounterTop
Game 1: I sat next to Scott a few rounds ago so I know what he’s playing. Where are all these aggro decks anyway? He resolves Confidant. I play Standstill and eventually draw off of it. He overextends and I Wrath. Factory beats him to 1 before it is sent farming. I EOT cycle decree for the win.
Game 2: I resolve Elspeth and keep his threats off the board. We go to time and he scoops to me to give me the 2-0 win, as he’s dropping.
3-1-1
Round 6 – Steve Sadin with ITF variant (UGbw with CounterTop/Goyf/Factories/Wasteland/Counterspell/Intuition-Loam)
Game 1: I tell him his name sounds familiar, he says that he writes and he’s played in some big events. He doesn’t mention that he’s a pro (which I didn’t know until I got home and looked him up, I just don’t stay up to date with these things). Anyway, this game is another grinder. I think it takes half an hour. We trade threats/answers for a while. He misses a few land drops before he gets Loam/Lonely Sandbar online. By then I’m at 3 life and he’s at 2. He swings in with Goyf for the win, but I cycle decree for 4 tokens, chump his Goyf. He digs for StP but can’t find it.
Game 2: I got great hang-time on this punt, Shane Lechler style. He opens with Duress and sees something like Brainstorm, Spell Snare, EE, Wrath, Factory, Tundra, Swords. He takes Swords. Turn 2 he plays Goyf right into my Spell Snare. I’m thinking that he must have some plan, so I over-think things anticipating some sort of jedi mind-trick by Steve and decide I should save my Spell Snare for something else (WTF right?) and Brainstorm instead. I find my land drops and race to Wrath but he goes for Trinket turn 3 and Goyf turn 4. He wastes my tundra turn 3. I Wrath at 2 life but he has Force anyway. The entire game that fucking spell snare sat in my hand mocking me. Damn it.
Game 3: I mull to an awful 6 of Wrath, Stp, Stp, Underground Sea, Top, Elspeth. I open with Land -> Top. He duresses and takes StP. I top into Tundra and hit my land drops through pure luck. He resolves Goyf, Forces my StP, but I’m able to Wrath. He sets EE to 4 anticipating my Elspeth. By the time I find my own EE we’re in turns. I’m 1 turn short of killing him. He comments that a draw essentially eliminates us both. I’m burnt out from a long day of going to time, it was almost 5pm and I hadn’t eaten anything all day, plus it was my girlfriends birthday. I scoop to him and he’s very grateful. He, like all my opponents, was a very nice guy and thanked me about 5 times for scooping to him. I also thought that he had a much better chance of making top 8/16 than I did. So that ended my day.
3-2-1
Thoughts on the build: The maindeck is solid, albeit a little slow. I lost one Game 1 all day. Cunning Wish never resolved and was pitched for Force frequently. Wrath is SOOOO good. EE was less than stellar. I missed Vindicate. Crucible in the side was solid. Propagandas never came in. Mages were decent. Overall though, I think the combination of the Landstill gameplan, Sensei’s Top, and my playstyle makes for too many long games in a big tournament. I asked Steve if he thought I played overly slow and he said that game 1 took a little longer than it should have. I explained that part of the reason I like to play control decks like Landstill with many decision points is to challenge myself to make good play decisions. He said he doesn’t like straight control decks like Landstill because they lend themselves to going to time. He also said if I Spell Snared his Goyf I probably would have won the match 1-0. Live and learn.
Props:
Scott Blumenthal, for taking it down
Amiable opponents all day long
The legacy community, for helping out Josh
My girlfriend, for not making TOO big a deal out of me going to the event on her birthday
My dad, because it was national “props to dad” day
Decree of Justice, because many decks have no answer for it
Slops:
Play mistakes for both losses
Deck thieves
Going to time in 4 of 6 rounds
My estimation of the metagame – I played control/aggro-control in 4 of 6 rounds!!
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Misplayer
Josh said he barely knows rockout.
:cool: What can I say, getting your deck stolen is really fucking gay. I'd let anyone borrow anything in that situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Misplayer
Round 4 – Tariq with UWb Landstill(!!)
His names spiderfreak on the source. He's a teammate of Geoff. I've had my share of epic landstill battles with him.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
He must have been piloting Geoff's Vin Wish build previously shown a while back when he and his team were working on it.
I'm suprised that he actually ran it. The list was uber slow and lacked real consistency for turns 1-2.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rockout
:cool: What can I say, getting your deck stolen is really fucking gay. I'd let anyone borrow anything in that situation.
His names spiderfreak on the source. He's a teammate of Geoff. I've had my share of epic landstill battles with him.
How did you do in the tourney
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
I'm pretty sure it was a different Tariq. When I saw the pairing I expected to sit down across from spiderfreak (I have a pretty good idea of what he looks like from a few Hadley events), but it was a completely different guy.
Also, I guess I played Tim Landale round 1 who is another pro (his PT shirt probably should have given it away). Maybe I broke even on rating points after all.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mossivo1986
How did you do in the tourney
I didn't do much of anything. Read the report on the team forum.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Interesting report. Unfortunate about 4c thresh, but then again you got flooded a majority of the time. Sorry for the luck.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
@NQN
Hahaha, I think so too.
To set the record straight:
I do not think we should cut Counterspell out of traditional Landstill variants.
I do not think Spell Snare or Negate are appropriate replacements for Counterspell. I do think that Spell Snare is a must-have in addition to a mainstay permission card though.
I do not typically keep permission in my sideboard, but I think Spell Snare can be kept maindeck or in the sideboard and I think Negate is strictly a sideboard card.
If we do need to replace Counterspell with a 1U permission card, I do not think Negate is appropriate. I would choose Mana Leak.
@Misplayer
Ugh... I hate Ichorid. Because I lack black for Engineered Plague, I have to keep those damn Chalices and disruption cards from removing my Sword effects. Post-sideboard, the game gets easier though. I need Elspeth. ><
On a side note, has anyone ever discussed Moratorium Stone vs. Relic of Progenitus vs. Tormod's Crypt?
My condolences for your friend's stolen deck. That sort of stuff is really gay. It's akin to stealing somebody's camera at Disneyland or something.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
I do not think we should cut Counterspell out of traditional Landstill variants.
Yes i'm doing it. Your old fashioned, and yo mama dresses you funny. :)
Quote:
I do not think Spell Snare or Negate are appropriate replacements for Counterspell.
See Comment from above: + Snare in vindicate versions should be at the bare minimum a 3 of. In wish versions a 4 of. Theres simply too many things you WANT to have an answer to on that critical turn. Take a look at the Top 50 cards in legacy thread and look how many of them cost 2. Then come back to me and say its not an auto 4 of.
Quote:
I do think that Spell Snare is a just-have in addition to a mainstay permission card though.
See above comment: + Snare is more like a, no you don't get tempo advantage with your bob, burning wish, tarmgogoyf, challice for 1, life from the loam, counterspell, standstill, tarmogoyf, lord of atlantas, cabal ritual, counterbalance, stasis, remand, oh and did I mention t-goyf aka t-daddy soo to b t-dizzle. It also has multiple purpose situations in the early game where daze just rapes us as well as dodges opposing snares. If your opponent plays with snare, they have potentially 6 targets in your deck. 3 of them are standstill; and the other three are EE. You decide how good snare is when you start controlling games with 8 1 drop spells. aka STP and Snare instead of force of will. Thank you sir may I have another.
Quote:
I do not typically keep permission in my sideboard, but I think Spell Snare can be kept maindeck or in the sideboard and I think Negate is strictly a sideboard card.
snare is not compatible in the sideboard unless you use a 25 land ultra slow geoff build. I love the guy but seriously how many wraths do you need bro?
Quote:
If we do need to replace Counterspell with a 1U permission card, I do not think Negate is appropriate. I would choose Mana Leak.
We would actually not even go that way, you'd rather choose clique; as its not only a threat, not only dodges CB as well as hinders loam, but also removes parts from combo, forces force/ opponents countermagic out. I've won soo many games on the back of a vendillion clique that I can't believe people still quarrell it. Ask the best landstill players in the world what they think of clique before you even begin to judge it.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
I tried the Clique for awhile but it wasn't working great for me. I wasn't too sure what matchups to use it in and its very possible I used it at the wrong time. I likely need more experience with it and am trying it again.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
This post is being made in response to a friend and I talking about landstill. This is for anyone and everyone to discuss and attack. First, the list ,then, my opinions.
Creatures 2
2 Eternal Dragon
Enchantments 4
4 Standstill
Artifacts 9
2 Crucible of Worlds
3 Engineered Explosive
3 Pithing Needle
Instants 18
4 Force of Will
4 Spell Snare
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Krosan Grip
Sorcery 5
2 Decree of Justice
3 Ponder
Land 23
4 Mishras Factory
4 Flooded Strand
1 Tolaria West
1 Dust Bowl
1 Academy Ruins
3 Tundra
4 Island
3 Plains
2 Tropical Island
When building this the goal was to create a landstill deck that did not really care about land destruction. The theoretical "get to 4 mana and win" has been removed from the equation. This deck can function on two mana long enough to matter.
Like all landstill decks, the deck really wants a board full of land to fully function but with the inclusion of ponder finding answers is easier than ever.
The pithing needles are gods answer to most problematic cards that the deck has trouble with. Wasteland, Aether Vial, Survival of the Fittest and Sensei's Top are all rendered useless at your leasure. This is a powerful step in removing a decks advantage over you.
The manabase is as stable as anything you will find, with seven basic lands and minimal color splash basics are easy to come by. Other differences:
Spell Snare: It is a hard counter that works in all stages of the game. It stops the most common and most powerful cards in the format. Why not play four.
Ponder: The ability to dig for that swords or land or anything else is done best by ponder. Better than brainstorm in many situations this card is pure gold.
No Wrath/EE only sweeper: EE is good, I have never been dissapointed by that card and it is the key to this deck. EE recursion forces scoops in many/many matches. I love it. Wrath is missed but I like the ability to have as few dead cards in every matchup. Wrath is quite dead in the mirror and combo.
Pithing Needle: As discussed above and it also shuts down plainswalkers all for a measly one mana.
Krosan Grip: Some things just have to die, and I mean uncounterable brutal death here. Counterbalance hits alot of this deck so a way to kill the balance is needed. Also handles nought and other annoying artifacts.
Tolaria West: Gets EE, gets any land I love it.
Academy Ruins/Crucible: This allows you to win the long game, with undying factories and dust bowl locks these two cards protect one another to keep on bringing the pain. The strongest reason to play this deck is to cartwheel around decks in the late game and these are a huge reason for that ability.
Well Im going to watch year one and will add more as I see fit.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mossivo1986
Yes i'm doing it. Your old fashioned, and yo mama dresses you funny. :)
See Comment from above: + Snare in vindicate versions should be at the bare minimum a 3 of. In wish versions a 4 of. Theres simply too many things you WANT to have an answer to on that critical turn. Take a look at the Top 50 cards in legacy thread and look how many of them cost 2. Then come back to me and say its not an auto 4 of.
See above comment: + Snare is more like a, no you don't get tempo advantage with your bob, burning wish, tarmgogoyf, challice for 1, life from the loam, counterspell, standstill, tarmogoyf, lord of atlantas, cabal ritual, counterbalance, stasis, remand, oh and did I mention t-goyf aka t-daddy soo to b t-dizzle. It also has multiple purpose situations in the early game where daze just rapes us as well as dodges opposing snares. If your opponent plays with snare, they have potentially 6 targets in your deck. 3 of them are standstill; and the other three are EE. You decide how good snare is when you start controlling games with 8 1 drop spells. aka STP and Snare instead of force of will. Thank you sir may I have another.
snare is not compatible in the sideboard unless you use a 25 land ultra slow geoff build. I love the guy but seriously how many wraths do you need bro?
We would actually not even go that way, you'd rather choose clique; as its not only a threat, not only dodges CB as well as hinders loam, but also removes parts from combo, forces force/ opponents countermagic out. I've won soo many games on the back of a vendillion clique that I can't believe people still quarrell it. Ask the best landstill players in the world what they think of clique before you even begin to judge it.
So, what a mature reaction. :rolleyes:
Why on earth do you think that V. Clique functions as a counterspell? Clique is pro-active, not reactive and therefore totally out of place in a landstill deck. I'm not saying Clique is bad, but unless you're playing threshold, this is not the place. Counterspell answers the things that spell snares answer, you already named the list. You'll never make a good play with a clique to answer things like countrysidecrusher, crucible, vindicate, tombstalker or terravore. 50% of the time, you even can't, cause he is starting.
Landstill needs 9-11 counterspells. 4 Fow, 3 Snare, 3 CS works fine for me, and for a lot of others. Negate is bad because it can't answer Confidant, Terravore or Tombstalker: things that beat you down fast if you can't find removal. I'm not even mentioning the Goblin matchup, which you have just trown away. They have 4 Ringleader, you have nothing.
Clique can be nice, but for god's sake, IF you have to run it, run it next to the Countersuite, not instead of.
And Moss, listen to what other have to say. Landstill is not only your deck, a LOT of people are running it. Succesfully. And in much bigger tourneys then your 4 rounds creature.deck.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Misplayer
I'm pretty sure it was a different Tariq.
yeah it was not me i had to work
