[Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

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Originally Posted by Bryant Cook

Aha, sure. It's uncounterable, it has one thing that Surgical doesn't have. Surgical is better in every single other way, but those are just corner cases. Surgical is extremely flexible and doesn't Lightning Bolt you off of Ad Nauseam.

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There is one more reason to play F.Macabre over Surgical vs Reanimator:
vs Exhume is just better than Surgical, unless in gy exists 2 Griselbrand.

Apart, I've always felt Reanimator a bad mutch up..., but not sure if 2x anti grave effects will be ok... to improve the match up substantially.., lately people in my meta do not play often reanimator so good luck for me!, playig other storm decks with full package in base of discard and adding more even from side - just Timo B.W. ANT list, has been a great strategy to beat those reanimator in conjuntion with G.Cage! TES needs a different approach maybe...

Although, for example looking at these deck:
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12755&iddeck=93551 or http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12694&iddeck=93081
seems that grafdigger seems ok becasue of only 1 E.Truth , however T.Seize can disrupt that lonely Surgical scenario I just do not like the possibility, even most of decks finally run+2 from side, also I understand the kind of plays like: Reanimate to entomb-> Silence in resp -> surgical. - why just don't play Extirpate then?

Another idea its to play 1 reanimate in our sideboard, of course I think the best option is to play surgical extractions or crypts, but reanimating their monster can be funny.

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

Sent out final version of HotS Vol. 6 today ...

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I'm really excited for this man, I've been keeping an eye out for it for weeks :P

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Originally Posted by SScout

I'm really excited for this man, I've been keeping an eye out for it for weeks :P

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I apologize. The Article is basically finished for 6 weeks, but the Quest to find a hoster was more hilarious than I expected (some websites didn't even bother to respond to 3 eMails over 3 weeks or asked me which SCG I top8'ed and that they can't sell random Articles from a random guy who did not. I have dozen of stupid stories gathered since mid-december lol). Decided to move the Series to the only website which welcomed me with open arms from the start.

P.S. polished the article during that time and turned it from a tournament report into an article ... 22 pages of writing, guys!

So which website is hosting HOTS?

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

I apologize. The Article is basically finished for 6 weeks, but the Quest to find a hoster was more hilarious than I expected (some websites didn't even bother to respond to 3 eMails over 3 weeks or asked me which SCG I top8'ed and that they can't sell random Articles from a random guy who did not. I have dozen of stupid stories gathered since mid-december lol). Decided to move the Series to the only website which welcomed me with open arms from the start.

P.S. polished the article during that time and turned it from a tournament report into an article ... 22 pages of writing, guys!

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22 pages! Sounds like its 100% worth the wait ^_^

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Originally Posted by trollking21

So which website is hosting HOTS?

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Eternal Central. JACO has the report in his hands now, creating Banner and shit for the launch. Bug him for progress lol.

Possible double-feature realease with me also starring in one if the next Everyday Eternal Podcasts (also on EC)

Cat's out of the sack.

@reanimator:
The mu feels kinda similar to team america,but instead of tarmogoyfs and delver we have to face griselbrand.
Our team america mu is not the best at all and the countermagic and handdisruption package looks nearly the same in both decks.
surgical extraction seems like the path we have to go to combat reanimator.
Currently i'm not sure about the number of extractions in our limited sideboard.
3 would be great after testings,they improve the 40:60 mu to 50:50.
worth it?



- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

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Originally Posted by sawatarix

@reanimator:
The mu feels kinda similar to team america,but instead of tarmogoyfs and delver we have to face griselbrand.
Our team america mu is not the best at all and the countermagic and handdisruption package looks nearly the same in both decks.
surgical extraction seems like the path we have to go to combat reanimator.
Currently i'm not sure about the number of extractions in our limited sideboard.
3 would be great after testings,they improve the 40:60 mu to 50:50.
worth it?



- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

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The problem is finding space, there just isn't any. Xantid Swarm is still incredibly valuable and comes in for other difficult match-ups such as Sneak & Show. Pyroblast is a must have right now in my eyes to deal with Meddling Mages and that leaves Abrupt Decay. I'm not comfortable leaving myself cold to Chalice of the Void/Counterbalance.

Bryant i would cut pyroblast.seriously,we can't swap our deck into a wannabe-controldeck,every pyroblast,extraction,decay etc weakens our mainplan: Grapeshot for infinite.

Meddling mage for instance can be handled with massacre (strong slot,gaddock teeg disappeared since november)
And if Meddling Mage names burning wish we can still combo out with ad nauseam into one billion goblins (empty should stay in the main)

I would not cut swarms or decays in the sb,at least play 2 copies of each of them,they are to important.


- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

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Originally Posted by sawatarix

Bryant i would cut pyroblast.seriously,we can't swap our deck into a wannabe-controldeck,every pyroblast,extraction,decay etc weakens our mainplan: Grapeshot for infinite.

Meddling mage for instance can be handled with massacre (strong slot,gaddock teeg disappeared since november)
And if Meddling Mage names burning wish we can still combo out with ad nauseam into one billion goblins (empty should stay in the main)

I would not cut swarms or decays in the sb,at least play 2 copies of each of them,they are to important.


- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

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We're never sideboarding all of those cards at once, you're simply swapping similar elements for better ones in certain match-ups. Pyroblast being diverse protection/removal is crucial, not to mention it comes in versus Sneak & Show as well as some fringe match-ups like Hightide.

Meddling Mage always names Burning Wish, Massacre is irrelevant. Also, I don't know what it is with people on this entire message board assuming that Gaddock Teeg is not played. Look at some results, he's in every single elves sideboard for the last few months in the top 8's of SCGs.

Sure, ideally we always draw our Infernal Tutors when our opponent has Meddling Mage. Doesn't always break down like that.

I'm glad we're agree on those numbers.

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

Eternal Central. JACO has the report in his hands now, creating Banner and shit for the launch. Bug him for progress lol.

Possible double-feature realease with me also starring in one if the next Everyday Eternal Podcasts (also on EC)

Cat's out of the sack.

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Aww yeah, can't wait for the article and the podcast.

new ban list should be out in a few days, just wait, maybe SnT gets banned ;)

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Originally Posted by sa3xxx

new ban list should be out in a few days, just wait, maybe SnT gets banned ;)

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Isn't necessarily a good thing for storm if players could focus their combo hate

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

Isn't necessarily a good thing for storm if players could focus their combo hate

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I wouldn't mind. It takes away 2/3 more bad match-ups meaning that other match-ups could possibly get marginally worse.

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Originally Posted by Bryant Cook

I wouldn't mind. It takes away 2/3 more bad match-ups meaning that other match-ups could possibly get marginally worse.

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Do you guys think S+T is a bad matchup for TES? I always do very well against it with ANT, but I guess that's mostly because of the discard.

If grapeshot doesn't get banned it's alright.




- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

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Originally Posted by sawatarix

If grapeshot doesn't get banned it's alright.




- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

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Why would Grapeshot get banned?:eyebrow:

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Originally Posted by JPoJohnson

Why would Grapeshot get banned?:eyebrow:

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Kai is just trolling the thread ;)

Massacre sucks against UWR and every Cannonist/Thalia/Meddling Mage as you'll never get it resolved thx to counter/Wasteland your U.Sea (go pay 8 mana for it against Thalia)/name Wish.

We had the discussion about Massacres against D&T a few pages back. The D&T players I know play a maximum of 8 Plains.

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Originally Posted by Patrunkenphat7

Do you guys think S+T is a bad matchup for TES? I always do very well against it with ANT, but I guess that's mostly because of the discard.

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I do. I also highly doubt that ANTs three additional discard spells over our Silence increase the margin that much. Maybe you're just incredible at magic, maybe your opponents aren't very skilled, either way they're fast and have Force of Will/Flusterstorm which can be a major issue.

Anything that plays S&T + FoW is potentially bad as they combo out fast (sometimes indeed faster than you or your Xantid goes online) while running a shitload of counters postboard.

My issue with the Surgical plan is, that in Europe Sneak&Show is still more popular than Reanimator, due to the shitload of DRS and Rest in Piece. Likely that those are also the reason ANT started to decline slowly... I dislike chopping in the same notch as common hate already does.

Let's see what Monday brings and how the euro-meta develops

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Originally Posted by Bryant Cook

I do. I also highly doubt that ANTs three additional discard spells over our Silence increase the margin that much. Maybe you're just incredible at magic, maybe your opponents aren't very skilled, either way they're fast and have Force of Will/Flusterstorm which can be a major issue.

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I think it's worse for ANT if they're playing Leyline since mulligan to Leyline + counter your chain of vapor is functionally a lock. I'm not sure how many SnT players are playing Leyline these days, but Brad Nelson brought them in against me on Sunday.

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Originally Posted by Bryant Cook

I do. I also highly doubt that ANTs three additional discard spells over our Silence increase the margin that much. Maybe you're just incredible at magic, maybe your opponents aren't very skilled, either way they're fast and have Force of Will/Flusterstorm which can be a major issue.

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Starting you playing Duress vs a Reanimator Opponent is one of the best thing you can do. Even I prefer keeping Therapys, I recognize Duress is something that both in OmniShow (1st game) and Reanimator match up shined.

@Rest:
at least in my meta I've been diferentiating OmniShow and Sneak as followsat its simplest:
a) is quicker, more odds to play Leline, less Disruption package
b) is slower, less odds to play Leyline, moreDirsuption.

Having this in mind I conceive Reanimator as a) + Disruption from b) definately a rough match up...

vs OmniShow: I've felt the match up absultly winnable, I lost 1st because ofthinking it was T.Spiral, still didn't know the deck!
vs Sneak: almost same as before.

News...

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

News...

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Damn, that's 4am for me :( guess I'm not listening live :P

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Originally Posted by Royce Walter

I think it's worse for ANT if they're playing Leyline since mulligan to Leyline + counter your chain of vapor is functionally a lock. I'm not sure how many SnT players are playing Leyline these days, but Brad Nelson brought them in against me on Sunday.

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My post-SB against S+T includes 4 Xantid Swarm, 3 discard, 2 Chain of Vapor, and I play an Empty the Warrens which can be an out in the Leyline situation. Sometimes Swarm acts as discard with Leyline in play to strip their counter, then you just make 20 goblins. Their hands are substantially slower when they have Leylines. I've probably tested 80+ hours of this matchup with a friend. If you're prepared, the matchup is good. They have the edge with turn 2 Griselbrand hand, but you have the edge against everything else (which is most of their hands). If they rely on Sneak Attack, it is incredibly easy to beat them, and they can't consistently Show and Tell you every game. Something like turn 3 S+T Emrakul is awful too.

Good evening storm troopers, what do you think about grafdiggers cage against reanimator ?

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Originally Posted by Kring

Good evening storm troopers, what do you think about grafdiggers cage against reanimator ?

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Not only against reanimator but also GSZ and Natural Order as well ... dunno if we need help against Elves. At the Moment I'm rather pondering over more radical hate in form of RIP, if Reanimator, Loam and RUG make a comeback in europe....

Cage nonbos with past in flames and I don't really think we need the help against elves or other GSZ decks. Surgical seems to have more use in TES

B/R list :
Standard, Legacy, Vintage
No changes

There wasn't really any chance of anything for this deck getting banned or unbanned

obv not. But don't you think that (for example) banning SnT would have no effect on this deck?

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Originally Posted by Kring

Good evening storm troopers, what do you think about grafdiggers cage against reanimator ?

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Well it would also negate your deck from using Past in Flames, so you could adjust your deck/sideboard accordingly...

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Originally Posted by shaggai

Well it would also negate your deck from using Past in Flames, so you could adjust your deck/sideboard accordingly...

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Before adjusting proven engines for narrow SB cards I would first evaluate if you really need a card that blows against anything that isn't Reanimator or Elves in the first place

Played vs Dark Depths, with Bryant´s new list (surgical)

Game 1 he has depths + vampire and I tried Diminishing Returns, drawing 4 lands. Losed

Game 2 he began with leyline and on turn 2 vampire + depths, and I conceded. Have we any opportunity without the chain of vapor against this????

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Originally Posted by lemariont

Played vs Dark Depths, with Bryant´s new list (surgical)

Game 1 he has depths + vampire and I tried Diminishing Returns, drawing 4 lands. Losed

Game 2 he began with leyline and on turn 2 vampire + depths, and I conceded. Have we any opportunity without the chain of vapor against this????

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Erm ... you lost here against a naturally slower combo deck in game 1. in game 2 there was not much to do against I fear. It was a monsterous start with Leyline of Sanctity into turn 2 Marit Lage. That's pretty much the same as being blown out by a turn 1 Ancient Tomb, Petal, S&T behind a Leyline. Shit happens. I'm more interested in game 1 and why you DimRet in turn 3+

I'm toying around with the idea of cutting the Tropical Island from the sideboard for Chain of Vapor. The fact of the matter is we're only siding in two green cards in any given match-up, our main deck five color sources should be able to handle it. Granted, we side in Tropical a fair amount in other matches, but it's mostly to take other things out, there's no reason we can't be siding in Chain of Vapor/Thoughtseize more often.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IV2UuwHrU0

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Originally Posted by Bryant Cook

I'm toying around with the idea of cutting the Tropical Island from the sideboard for Chain of Vapor. The fact of the matter is we're only siding in two green cards in any given match-up, our main deck five color sources should be able to handle it. Granted, we side in Tropical a fair amount in other matches, but it's mostly to take other things out, there's no reason we can't be siding in Chain of Vapor/Thoughtseize more often.

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That seems fine, in the past we had 3 Abrupt Decay and 2 Xantid Swarm with no Tropical Island and it was a non-issue. I believe it was only added after Carpet of Flowers was included for a short time; perhaps it's just a relic from then. That said, even though it's not needed, it does improve the consistency of both Xantid Swarm and Abrupt Decay, which are very important cards in their relevant match-ups. Is improving these cards more or less useful than having access to a different card (Chain of Vapor/Surgical Extraction depending on viewpoint)?

On that note, have you played many games with Surgical Extraction? What are your thoughts so far?

Cheers!

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Originally Posted by vercadium

That seems fine, in the past we had 3 Abrupt Decay and 2 Xantid Swarm with no Tropical Island and it was a non-issue. I believe it was only added after Carpet of Flowers was included for a short time; perhaps it's just a relic from then. That said, even though it's not needed, it does improve the consistency of both Xantid Swarm and Abrupt Decay, which are very important cards in their relevant match-ups. Is improving these cards more or less useful than having access to a different card (Chain of Vapor/Surgical Extraction depending on viewpoint)?

On that note, have you played many games with Surgical Extraction? What are your thoughts so far?

Cheers!

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I think the "usefulness" of Tropical Island isn't worth the weight of being cold against Leyline. While I'll admit that Leyline's numbers have dwindled, some still play the card (Brad Nelson).

I haven't.