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If i playedplayed 100 matches, mulls + manascrew/flood alone would probably account for more than 15% loss ratio, and that's not even taking into account what your opponent is playing. No way this deck is 85/15 versus anything, let alone High Tide.Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoFireheart
How can you constantly claim that MUC beats TES' Silences, Duress and Xantid Swarms pointing at Misdirection and Divert? Your Chalice can be destroyed with Abrupt Decay no matter your Misd. or Divert unless you present another legal target TES won't give against a Deck without discard, so the whole Break-Even with Misd. Or cardadvantage with Divert is nonsense
Mods please change the thread title to "The Format Defining Combo: Back to Basics + Powder Keg"Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsenal
During a Combo Players Turn you still have a Maximum of 7 cards in hand. Magic 101.Quote:
Originally Posted by MGB
Jace don't let you Control the draw. If you find a Burning Wish or Infernal onto of a TES opponents Deck and decide to put it to the bottom he can still draw more Tutors, Wishes, Brainstorm, Ponder to Combo off. Same is pretty much true for every other matchup. Don't come up with counterspell again in case TES draws buisness despite your fateseal unless answering the question in my previous post
For a second I thought this said "MBC" but then I saw the joke.Quote:
Originally Posted by clavio
I had to check this thread out - I was confused why MUC was getting so much development work recently.
This thread is insane. I feel like I stepped off the boat onto the Shivering Isles. I crossed the river Styx and the tormented souls of the damned are screaming at me, "Brainstorm is tempo loss!"
I think the only rational response to this kind of insanity in the past 7 pages has been from nedleeds:
Quote:
Originally Posted by nedleeds
Now that's a MUC deck that could work.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Treefolk Master
Didn't even know Curfew existed.
http://sales.starcitygames.com/cards...esearch=Curfew
Also, out of stock LOL!
OMG That list actually seems sweet!!!! I must try out a version of it!!!! My question tho, would jace be a good addition to this kind of deck? I feel like he can add another nice angle of attack. That aside, I like the list a lotQuote:
Originally Posted by The Treefolk Master
Just wanted to say that I ran MGBs list against High Tide 20 Times last night, half of it pre- half of it postboard.
I won 1 game pre and 3 games postboard. Best moment: when my opponent milled me with Brainfreeze through Chalice at 1 and 2. It was possible because this deck doesn't have a clock, as others stated several times. I had 7 turns of Jacing, he just played Island after Island and suddenly I was dead. Counters don't do shit at this stage btw, except adding to storm count.
So while I am certainly not the best Control player, I found myself quite competent with control decks(and MUC in particular)in the past. This leads me to believe that your testing partner is just awful.(@MGB)
I had even worse results testing it Seven Games against J.R.'s 12-post in a team session. I still have the feeling he tests against himself on MWS or Cockatrice, which is flawed by natureQuote:
Originally Posted by HokusSchmokus
I think the reason he did not add JTMS is he probably doesn't think he can protect him in his deck. With the creatures he doesn't have to worry about them being attacked and curfew can be used to protect them.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThediscoPower
mmmm makes sense actually. I think imma try it out for sure. The deck just looks so sweet. Probably put a jace in, if I can't find my shackles in time, so I can play the deck in my local tournament.Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoFireheart
needs more abjure
Not that I think that this is any better than U/W, but the thread is so dead, and this version actually works pretty good: The design is well balanced, it has it all, loads of countermagic, proactive tools, efficient win-cons, and card advantage engines.
// 24
4 Mishra's Factory (speed up the clock)
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
14 island
// 6
3 Vedalken Shackles
3 Nevinyrral's Disk (you can bounce the hell out of it, but sometimes things don't go the way they are supposed to, so the oh shit button can put things right again)
// 11
4 Brainstorm
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Fact or Fiction (Jace No. 5-6 in terms of carddraw)
1 Venser, Shaper Savant (Jace No. 5 in terms of tempo play: bounce + soaking up dmg)
// 5
3 Vendilion Clique (clock)
2 Snapcaster Mage (extended counterspell and bounce power + clock)
// my standard early-game package: 14
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
4 Force Spike (much better than Spell Pierce against creature decks; „ok“ against combo, since you transition into Counterspell/FoW/Clique/etc.)
2 Echoing Truth
SB:
4 Flusterstorm
4 Back to Basics
1 Vedalken Shackles
6 Mountain
What is this I dont even... I cant even tell if troll or not either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Buddha
This is not a troll - I'm not trolling.
What makes you think that this is a troll?
Disk? Maybe this deck doesn't need 3 board sweeper, but I think running 0 is a mistake, and Disk is the best available for MUC.
Force Spike? You can run Spell Snare/Rachtet Bomb. But they actually aren't much of an improvement in most matchups regarding the earlygame (quite the contrary)
Mishra's Factory? This was a last second inclusion, because I fear that my clock is not good enough.
Maybe -3 Shackles, +3 Treachery to play around Abrupt Decay, just a thought.
EDIT: I think I should make room for the full playset Snapcaster Mage, so I can cut the Factories, maybe:
+2 SCM, -1 FoF, -1 Disk
-4 Factory, +4 Island
Well the 6 mountains seems a bit out of place
Edit: Ive been thinking of a Ug MUC deck (the name is misleading a bit) with Goyfs and maybe some Talrands. Seems fun at least.
I think it would be fun because you could make it more aggro-ish with cards like Goyf, Trygon Predator, Edric, hell maybe even find a place for Lorescale Coatl. The deck i've been rocking on MWS is sort of an aggro-ish approach to MUC. Played a few games against Pox, White Stax, and Stoneblade today. The only deck that I lost to was stoneblade. Here's the list. Suggestions welcome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets
1 Morphling
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Kirra, Great Glass Spinner
1 Talrand, Sky Summoner
2 Sower of Temptation
Instant/Sorceries
4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Leak
2 Repeal
4 Brainstorm
2 Spell Pierce
2 Ponder
Enchantments/Artifacts
2 Vedalken Shackles
1 Back to Basics
1 Control Magic
Jace the Mind Sculptors
1 Jace the Mind Sculptor
Land
16 Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
SB: 4 Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 Back to Basics
SB: 2 Spell Pierce
SB: 4 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
I really wish I could fit some snapcasters in here. In fact I may drop Jace and 1 other thing for 2x snapcasters. I would also like the kick Kirra up to a 2 count because she has just been a friggin house.
The mountains were supposed to be placeholders, because I haven't put much thought into the SB...
I like the idea of a more tempoish approach. If you look closely on my list, you see that I also kind of went that direction: 4 SCM, 3 Clique, 1 Venser. I would love to push this even further.
Talrand. I like him, but he is definitely not good enough in your list, especially when compared to Jace TMS, who is actually one of the best tempo cards you can have (thanks to his bounce ability)
Morphling sucks, they killed him with the rules change.
Repeal. This card is not good. I mean it is nice to bounce delvers and such as, but bouncing Tarmogoyf already cost 3, and drawing a card is overrated, because the cardquality by drawing a single card really pales when compared to Jace and Brainstorm. Doesn't work with SCM so well, either. Echoing Truth is the best bounce. I always run at least 2 of those. In short: Repeal costs to much, repeal is ineffective.
Back to Basics. I don't like it as a one of. I think you should run 3-4 or 0. My reasoning is that the later it hits play, the more it loses of its effectiveness in terms of being a tempo play. Running 1x BtB only makes sense if your plan is to use it to deal with Manlands, etc.
Sower of Temptation. Too much a liability. Gets around Abrupt, but runs straight into Punishing Fire and Lightning Bolt. He is powerful if he sticks, but I would rather play something (much) less powerful, but something that is safer to play like Venser (not to speak of Jace TMS). MUC has acces to so many powerful cards, that you can easily skip this one (e,g Jace TMS, FoF, Disk, Shackles, SCM, Treachery, and a few more)
Kira. Kira is very good (with Sower in play), but if the threat is not worth proctecting (like SCM, Venser) kira is also not worth it. Kira also suffers the being small syndrom. If your on topdeck mode, your opponent draws a Tarmogoyf and you draw a Kira, then you lose; I know a lot of cards have this problem (Delver, Clique) but you should not have too many.
Vendilion Clique: This card is so good. I always start with 3, not 2 when building a control deck.
So now the most important question: How good is Delver of Secrets in (Tempo) MUC?
I'm not sure on this one, but my gut says he is not so good.
1. You definitely want to scale up to 4c to have acces to Jace and friends. So, unlike Tempo Thresh, you actually have the mana to play something else.
As soon as you hit your third land, Vendilion Clique is 100% superior, and I think many others are so as well like SCM.
2. You don't even run 4 Ponder to flip him consistently.