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Never thought I would see that said again.Quote:
Originally Posted by lilevo
I feel everyone playing treasure cruise/dig through time has really opened up a lot more deck variety in Legacy. Dredge winning an event a few weeks ago, MUD making top 8. Good time to be playing legacy.
UR delver is a strict downgrade from RUG delver. I'm stoked about it, although I suspect people may soon abandon the TC bandwagon after coming to the same conclusion. They will realize that the graveyard is a resource (that must also be used sparingly!) and that delve 7 to draw land lightning bolt delver is worst than activating grim lavamancer 3 times, snapcasting a bolt from the graveyard, or having a supersized tarmogoyf. Consequently, they will notice that they don't have tempo plays like Spell Pierce, Daze and Wasteland anymore, which seriously trumped the win percentages of MUD. Resolving Wurmcoil Engine has never been this easy. UR Delver players will also notice how people don't have to run BG for Abrupt Decay anymore, but can simply run the elegantly costed Sudden Shock to trump every threat they have (and they are light on threats). Perhaps RUG delver will come back with Hooting Mandrills (which delves a lot cheaper), but for now, let's all feast and have a field day with MUD!
U/R delver appeals to many because it's a burn deck with counter magic. It's a not really better or worse because U/R plays completely differently to RUG so it's not really an apples to apples comparison... I think UR delver is better against us than RUG delver, only when they're playing Price of Progress. Which seems to be about 50% of the UR delver decks out there are playing that. If not, they're gonna have a bad time. RUG has never been an unwinnable match-up for us U/R is stopped in its tracks by turn 1 chalice/turn2 trinisphere. Most of the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
my current staxx build
with a lot of defence and main_removal
what do you think, friends?
/ Lands
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
3 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
3 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [MR] Cloudpost
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
2 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [TE] Wasteland
// Creatures
generals:
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 [ARC] Sundering Titan
golems:
4 [ARC] Lodestone Golem
our friend:
1 [NPH] Phyrexian Metamorph
those 6mana fellows
2 [SOM] Steel Hellkite
4 [SOM] Wurmcoil Engine
// Spells
removal:
2 [NPH] Karn Liberated
1 [M13] Staff of Nin
3 [SOM] Ratchet Bomb
1 [ROE] All Is Dust
mana:
1 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
4 [UL] Grim Monolith
2 [UD] Thran Dynamo
2 [US] Voltaic Key
defence:
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [NE] Tangle Wire
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [ROE] All Is Dust
SB: 2 [MI] Cursed Totem
SB: 2 [SH] Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 3 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 1 [DS] Sundering Titan
SB: 3 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [DS] Trinisphere\
may be second karn will go to side board, and second all is dust from side to main
What about Mindbreak Trap in the sideboard? Storm is a good match-up, so why put three copy of Mindbreak Trap in the sideboard? I'm talking about the list of Grand Prix New Jersey top 8.
Decks besides Storm power out more than 3 spells in a turn (the ones that come to mind are Elves! and Reanimator). Also, it adds redundancy so we don't have to mulligan as aggressively for Chalice or Trinisphere in matches where we either disrupt or die.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex_UNLIMITED
That being said, I don't personally run them.
5/16 Decks at GPNJ played Containment Priests on sb. Thats nasty creature against our Forgemaster. But better for us is that many plays Pyroblasts in maindeck which does nothing against us. Still many dazes and fows in decks disrupts our artifacts :really: Here in my local meta people play lots of UR and Miracles so it's still not very good deck to play in here.
Miracle is an easy match-up! :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by fogxanic
Miracles is a horseshit match up for us. It's not unwinnable but it's extremely difficult.Quote:
Originally Posted by fogxanic
Really? Miracle is one of the easiest match-ups! If you don't know how to play against it, don't tell that's difficult!Quote:
Originally Posted by potatodavid
Their deck is pretty good against us. Swords and terminus for our creatures. If our board is clean and they drop Jace it's basically game over. Once I destroyed 5 of their lands with Sundering Titan (2 ETB and 1 LTB after next turn terminus) and 2 wastelands. Still he got back in the game and won. Good cards would be Staff of Nins, once I had 3 of them (1 metamorph) on T4 against Maverick and he scooped soon. Well that was my old stompy build with old legendary rule so metamorphs were better. Ok start were fast metalworker and tap for 3 lodestone golems GG :smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex_UNLIMITED
Disagree. If you're on a post/cavern build miracles feels like a bye. If you're fucking with Goblin welder and shit then maybe.Quote:
Originally Posted by potatodavid
He looked to be playing around daze, as a lot of stoneblade decks run it. Although he did seem rather uneasy. Props to him anyhow, he clearly knows what he is doing with the deck. I imagine the mindbreak traps were aimed at the faster combo decks that can go off before we ever get a chance to chalice or trinisphere (belcher/all spells/tendrils with great hands). Also with only 8 relevant cards against TES, one duress can be game over. Upping that to 11 can make a huge difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by LLCoolDave
Containment priest hasn't been as big of an issue as I expected it to be. I've only seen 4 decks that run this card (miracles, stoneblade, maverick, death and taxes), and they only run it in the sideboard. Post-sideboard, we have a great non-creature card to get with kuldotha. Against maverick and D&T contagion engine is usually game ending. Against miracles, staff of nin is very strong. Stoneblade is more situational. If they have board pressure, contagion engine is good. If they have no threats, staff of nin is a solid option. Staff of domination can also be good to tap down their batterskull/jitte, or just draw cards.
Miracles is a favorable matchup for welder and post versions of the deck, but far from a bye. All it takes is a couple counters/StP followed by a quick entreat, and you can easily lose this. The matchup gets better the more of these you run: cavern of souls, batterskull, staff of nin, sundering titan, daretti, scrap savant.
They can still swords, termini and jace bounce your threats (that aren't as much). You can argue all you want with Chalice at one but you won't always have it and trying to mulligan for it seems like a step back when they can Force/Spell Pierce it.Quote:
Originally Posted by rlesko
The deck is too threat light and the disruption package can be played around. Not to mention you have to hit everything all at the right time.
I find that the best way to play against miracle is to try to jam as much threats as you can. None of the Metalworker/artifact ramp crap. Postboard, I find that Smokestack is a beating against this deck (and any midrange/permanent based decks). Though once they land a protected Jace, it's hard to win from there.
If miracles is your weakness, try mishra's factory, once you have chalice at one down, there are few things they can do to you.
A lot of decks don't run wastelands atm which makes factory that much better
In an Italian forum we say that Miracle is a good match-up for MUD. In Italy Miracle seems most used than in the United States and I know that we have a lot of threats for the deck, even if is important to know how to play against Miracle. The 12-post version is really good against them.
I stopped running caverns. Last time I played it, it was completely miserable. He managed to get counter/top going game 1. Followed by Jace + Venser so I can't play anything without it getting bounced.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex_UNLIMITED
Game 2, back to basics made sure I wasn't casting anything. When I did cast something, it was countered. I got a metalworker in play. Swords. It's a bad matchup.
Cavern of Souls is essential, even in 12-Post builds.Quote:
Originally Posted by potatodavid
With MUD's inconsistency, we need every big-hitter we draw to resolve because we don't have easy ways to restock our hand in the mid- to late-game.
I've been running the following manabase with success:
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
3 Wasteland
I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sockosensei
I prefer the GP's manabase: sol lands are essential, you can't play only 2 City of Traitors. I hate to play only 2 Wasteland, but seems the only way to play Cavern of Souls in our 24 slots for lands. I remember that Cavern of Souls are useless against non-blue decks, so play 4 copies may be too much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sockosensei
I wouldn't say miracles is a bad match up, but it is by no means a bye. We have a lot of cards they have to counter and they just get so far behind they can't come back. They only have so many removal spells and they won't always draw them and if they don't have top, or we resolve a chalice for 1, then they are going to be very hard pressed to deal with everything we present. The thing you have to understand about miracles is that they don't really generate early game card advantage against us so they usually have don't have answers to all of our threats. They generate early game card quality with top but if we land a chalice or a 3 sphere then they can easily get overwhelmed and can't deal with everything. Once we land a trinisphere or chalice then they are in a position where they pretty much have to counter everything and if there is no top they have to naturally find terminus which makes it a lot easier. Their best card against us is jace, but that is a four drop and they might have to play out non basics which can slow them down further if we have wastelands. Sundering titan is one of the best threats against them since they can't profitably terminus most of the time, but the best cards are the noncreature cards like chalice, trinisphere, or staff of nin or karn, which is why I think that cavern is a flawed strategy since they are more than well equipped to deal with creatures.Quote:
Originally Posted by potatodavid