Why not Leyline of the Void?
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Why not Leyline of the Void?
Against...Wasteland?! If your goal is to combat Devastating Dreams Karmic Justice will fail.Quote:
Originally Posted by SteakKnife
23 land? That seems damn dangerous. I'm much happier with 26, but I do turn Tabernacles.
If you're running 4x Mox Diamond, I wouldn't go any less than 25 land. 24 is absolute bleeding edge, but with Stax already being inconsistent with it's nonland spell suite, why take the chance?
If you do not start with it in your opening hand then you only have 4 black sources in your deck...Quote:
Originally Posted by Q-Ball
Obviously I do not side Karmic Justice for DD... I have it side for Zoo/GW/Bant Matchups anyways and as Aggro Loam brings in Krosan Grip I thought I might as well try it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian23
Hi guys, I'm thinking of put some cataclysm MD as a semi geddon effect. What do you think about this card? Anyone have tested it in the past? How it works? Thoughts?
Thanks
I like the idea of Cataclysm and have argued for it in the past, but I think World Queller's probably a better thing to try first given that it can attack and doesn't need WW. If you have access to Ravages, adding a 5th geddon effect would also probably be a better bet. Unlike old-school Death and Taxes, we're not really in a position here to abuse the hell out of Cataclysm. It's great at getting you out of a tough situation, but it's a little unpredictable (and therefore inconsistent) in a deck where inconsistency is arguably its biggest problem.
If you test it, let us know how it does!
Queller costs 3WW, so it's colored mana cost is just as prohibitive as Cataclysm's, and Queller's ability takes a full turn before it gets going whereas a resolved Cataclysm is bonkers.
I agree though that Cataclysm is inconsistent, although if you had ANY sort of board presence pre-Cataclysm, you should be in a better position than your unsuspecting opponent.
Queller costs 3WW, so it's colored mana cost is just as prohibitive as Cataclysm's, and Queller's ability takes a full turn before it gets going whereas a resolved Cataclysm is bonkers.
I agree though that Cataclysm is inconsistent, although if you had ANY sort of board presence pre-Cataclysm, you should be in a better position than your unsuspecting opponent post-Cataclysm.
Whoops, forgot he's white, heh. Good catch.
When Cat was posted before, it was acknowledged that it's very useful at getting you out of situations that Geddon alone can't solve. Elf(-survival) decks are mighty popular, and a mere Geddon won't do much once they get some Priest-like critters on the board. The first pays for upkeep and the second lets them smash you. When things get out of hand, Cat's admittedly wonderful. I guess the question is how often things get out of hand, and whether furthering our game plan with similar effects like Queller and Ravages is a better idea.
Has anyone actually tested the damn thing recently?
Catacylsm is really a good card but the problem with it is that white stax is very slow in recovering and other decks have a faster recovery time thus it was cut in the past. If you want to use it you have to tweak your deck for it.
Queller is a very slow card for a ww3 casting that doesn't do anything when it hits the board you have to wait a turn before its ability triggers.
I would rather pick suppression field over cataclysm as it acts almost like a geddon for somedecks.
I'm thinking in clysm like a subpar geddon effect and because this deck needs some reactive than preventive cards. In case that you have tabernacle and opponent a lot of creatures, the effect if you draw cataclysm is near the same than if you draw geddon. Opponent would keep only a beater and you a 2/6 that slows them, and expect that more taxing cards like a field/trinity/prison...
Another card I think I would consider in the decks with suppresion field MD is Ghost Quarter. So if you have crucible and field, opponent will fetch for basic lands to pay for other fetch they will draw. Maybe having access to kill basics with quarter helps...
Yea.. I tried playing against some random deck today with 23 lands.. it was horrible :( I waited 3-4 turns just for another land haha. I am going to put it back to 26 lands and lower the number of o.rings I guess. I love the MD suppression fields still :D And I really recommend 5 armageddon effects as I myself invested in two ravages around a month ago. The prices for the ravages lowered a bit so better get em' now before it goes back up! I was never a fan of cataclysm as it costs a total of converted 4 which I already have enough of those in stax.. Ghost Quarter is almost like a strip mine to the opponent except that it doesn't always work like one. It really depends on the MU so I didn't include GQ and kept my 4 wastelands instead. I had 3 wastelands MD with 5 plains before, but now I am switching back to 4 wastelands MD and 4 plains since people seem to be playing more non-basics as they seem to be fighting fire with fire.
Ok so... in your list with md fields, witch cards do you quit to fit the 5th geddon effect?Quote:
Originally Posted by 4zureSky
I've been playing GQ for a year or so and I actually use it on my own lands just to find a white source more often than I use it on my opponent's lands... I'm likely removing it for a plains or a karakas if I ever get one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Al-ucard
Time for a list change; been testing and playing with this. And although the consistency of my last list (WU with 6 propaganda effects and multiple upkeepers and taxes) has been good. Sometimes you need that other piece, and you topdeck for it.
I know tutors have been suggested. But we have so many things we want to maindeck, we can't do it consistently.
They're not all threats unlike many other decks.
So I think it's time for tutors.
Also I played a few games with gemstone mine, never having an issue. Odd no? Not really, with 4 geddon's or more, and smokestack, you can always bring it back with fresh counters. It's a shame I don't need more WU sources with 4 tundra's and 3 flagstones.
2 Lodestone Golem
2 Magus of the Tabernacle
4 Armageddon
4 Crucible of Worlds
1 Ravages of War
2 Ghostly Prison
3 Mox Diamond
2 Pendrell Mists
2 Propaganda
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Suppression Field
3 Trinisphere
2 Oblivion Ring
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Island
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
3 Mishra's Factory
1 Plains
4 Tundra
3 Wasteland
Sideboard:
2 Suppression Field
2 Oblivion Ring
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Ghostly Prison
2 Propaganda
1 Trinisphere
2 Smokestack
1 Chalice of the Void
This is my deck list today:Quote:
Originally Posted by Al-ucard
Lands
4 wasteland
4 ancient tomb
3 flagstone of trokair
3 city of traitors
1 kor haven
1 karakas
1 horizon canopy
4 plains
2 savannah
Creatures
3 Magus of the Tabernacle
2 KoTr
Spells
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Mox Diamond
3 Armageddon
2 Ravages of War
3 O. Ring
4 Ghostly Prison
3 Trinisphere
3 Suppresion Field
2 Smokestacks
I took out the mishra's because the suppresion fields got in the way, but now I have too little lands and need to push it back to 26 lands because I feel like I don't have enough from time to time. I think 26 lands is that magic number for stax. Im thinking of cutting one O.ring and one suppression field for 2 mishra's factory so that way I'll have more mana and I'll still have my suppressions for w/e I don't want my opponents to activate. Suggestions? Thanks!
I think I definetely will quit stacks, its a card that I like too, but always I draw it I think I will prefer an inmediate answer like Magus, geddon, o.ring... Another card I will put instead KoTr is Baneslayer Angel, gain life and flying are worth it.
For now this is my list:
25 Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
1 Horizon Canopy
2 Mishra's factory
1 Karakas
3 Flagstones of trokair
4 Wasteland
7 Plains
6 Creatures
2 Baneslayer Angel
4 Magus of the tabernacle
29 Others
4 Chalice of the void
4 Crucible of worlds
4 Mox diamond
3 Suppresion Field
3 Trinisphere
3 Armageddon
2 Cataclysm
3 Ghostly prison
3 Oblivion ring
60 Total
15 Sideboard
3 Aura of silence
4 Tormod's crypt
3 Sphere of law
1 Trinisphere
2 Silent Arbiter
1 Suppresion Field
1 Ghostly prison
If I can afford ravages of war I surely will quit the clysms, but for now I will test them. Then, I have 2 free slots and I don't know what to put (2 Silent Arbiter)... Thoughts?
Krosan grips will help quite a bit. And since you don't have Kotr I would suggest damping matrix against zoo decks, and tribal decks with vial like goblin or merfolks. I only took them out because I needed the toolbox effect from KoTr. I haven't tried baneslayer yet because its quite a lot to cast it. I do love the lifelink and flying though :) Oh yea.. I just took a look at your list again and you don't play green haha silly me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4zureSky
Baneslayers are great, They are pretty easy to get out early with city, tombs and diamonds. Most likely you wont see her till you have a solid lock anyways. They are way more resilant than KoTr. Also they can fly over your opponents prisoned dudes.