JamieW89: I would like to read your reports very much (also about UBG version). I'm torn apart between some decks and your thoughts about +g and +w versions would be very helpful. I hope you will find some time for us ;)
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JamieW89: I would like to read your reports very much (also about UBG version). I'm torn apart between some decks and your thoughts about +g and +w versions would be very helpful. I hope you will find some time for us ;)
Jamie has an extensive report up in Dutch here: http://benelegacy.nl/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=4543
You can Google Translate it to English and get something vaguely readable. :wink:
@Jamie: if you find the time to translate, let us know. :cool:
hi i'm an italian player :)
i play ant in a local tournament with 100 person 7 turn of swiss and top 8
the list i played is this:
2 underground sea
1 volcanic island
1 tropical island
1 island
1 swamp
4 flooded strand
4 polluted delta
4 dark ritual
4 cabal ritual
4 led
4 lotus petal
1 mox diamond
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 infernal tutor
1 lim dul's vault( everytime i cast this spell i win the game...it's too strong!!!)
1 sensei's divining top
1 preordain
2 duress
2 thoughthseize
3 cabal therapy
3 gitaxian probe
1 chain of vapor
1 pst in flames
1 tendrils of agony
1 ad nauseam
sideboards
3 dark confidant
3 krosan grip ( for omnitell i loose every time i play this matchup)
2 surgical extraction
2 chain of vapor
2 infest
3 empty the warrens
i do 5-1-1
i win against esper stoneblade 2 maverick 1 uw stoneblade and i win against spiral tide, i loose only from bug with deathrite shaman
the deck it's great i prefer lim dul on burning wish because with lim dul's can search what you want any time you want at istant speed and every time i cast it i win the game!! the loose against bug i's only my mistake .i loose the first game for a stupid error and in the second i open a good hand with duress swamp surgical and some other cards like brainstorm and lands.i play swamp duress and is hand it's fow spell pierce 2 daze 2 land and brainstorm :D i discard easy fow ad surgical on it and i see he side in only 3 flusterstorm ...he draw another spell pierce a vendilion 2 flusterstorm and a snapcaster...i can only loose :D
i finish 9 for rating ;) the deck it's great and the list it's solid :) try it
7th, 50 person tournament, 6 rounds, top 8
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Badlands
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
1 Ad Nauseam
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
2 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils of Agony
2 Burning Wish
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Duress
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Ponder
1 Grim Tutor
SB: 1 Chain of Vapor
SB: 1 Echoing Truth
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 2 Karakas
SB: 2 Extirpate
SB: 1 Pyroclasm
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Bayou
SB: 3 Xantid Swarm
UGR threshold 2-0, he sided out Bolts last tournament, so I bring in Xantid swarm, he laughs - envelop and multiple soft counters in hand - and dies when 14 goblins join the swarm few turns later
Burn 2-1, really close games I dont't find tutor G1 and win with 1 and 4 life G2, G3, has Mindbreak Trap instead of Pillar
UW aggro 2-1, weird rogue deck, I die to Jitte equipped Mom +daze Owl after he playes Soulbond doublestriker, I missplay T1 (should have petal BS fetch) and he wastes my only land so I'm mana/turn short to discard a Fow and kill him in the end, G2 swarm and die, G3 14 goblins T2
UGR threshold 2-0, I keep multiple lands petal ritual, he doesn't have T1 delver and dies horridly, G2 just dies T2 or 3
ID (UR Nivmagus CB)
scoop to random.dec
Top 8 - 1-2 UBG Veteran, eventual winner - G1 dies T3 after some Fow check, G2 he hesitates to keep, and plays Top off Sea, I T1 therapy and decide to check for FoW because of his hesitation and my one-of AD in hand and potent early kill, he has 2 CB and Extirpate in hand obv. but offcolor lands, finds some with Top and BS, so at 3 mana he is tapped out and has the lock, I AD eot and if I draw any manasource I kill him, which I do not and he kept second CB in hand so I keep drawing crap and die xx turns later to Clique and CB lock, G3 T1 I can duress off petal and can attempt T2 kill but pass instead, he playes Sea and passes, in my turn I BS, duress which gets flusterstormed and decide to go for the kill off petal, he Fows for Fow my Infernal Tutor and Extirpates it in his turn which I cannot recover from... sad ending but still I think my decisions were right, my next matches would have been the Canadian player that sided out Bolts and Bant in the finals =/
haven't cast Ad Nauseam in the tournament, Swarm MVP, kind of missed Dark Confidant in the last match, happy with the list except 2nd Abrupt decay should squeeze in somehow
Ad nauseum with 2 Past in flames, tendrils and grim tutor sounds rough. Better have 2 mana floating, eh?
depends... good to know LED, LED, Pif is usually enough, it's roughly the same as 2nd Grim but you just don't play the unless you have to, so - land, petal, Infernal, 2x LED opener goes BW->EtW obv. even with DR I would go for Goblins unless against other combo, G2 the 2nd Pif are usually EtW... the deck is PiF deck, not AdN anymore, kill through PiF most time and most T1 kills feature PiF in hand, and makes sure you win G1 with Thresh and heavy controlQuote:
Originally Posted by Tammit67
I won my qualifier and the gp Chicago legacy finals with UBrg ant il post my list later
4 delta
4 misty
1 bloodstained mire
3 underground
1 bayou
1 volcanic
1 swamp
1 island
4 probe
4 ponder
4 brainstorm
4 dark ritual
4 cabal ritual
4 lotus petal
4 lions eye diamond
4 duress
3 therapy
4 infernal tutor
2 grim tutor
1 past in flames
1 ad nauseam
1 tendrils of agony
Sb
4 dread of night
3 thoughtseize
3 abrupt decay
2 chain of vapor
1 echoing truth
1 ad nauseam
1 tropical island
Nothing extraordinary happened. The one match I lost was in the first round of the qualifier to dredge... He out raced me. I drew with mud and agreed to a prize split in the finals. We were the last two undefeateds and my gwp was higher so I got the win. Overall the deck felt great 9-1-1 on the weekend. Playing a win-a-mox Saturday with it.
why there is a second nauseam in that list??
I was also wondering about the 2nd ad nauseam, and how do you board the thoughtseizes off the board? Do you replace cabal therapies or do you really want 10 discard spells g2-3 against certain decks??
2nd Ad Naus is pretty sweet against decks you just want to flat race. I in most metas it makes sense to have 1 card like that in the board (Whether IGG or Ad Naus, I've tried both and like both).Quote:
Originally Posted by ac3eb
my opinion: Change the second nauseam for an ill-gotten, i mean with 2 grims ad nauseam can be very painful, but i never played that list, so i could be wrong
@Emidlin:
@Koby:
Regarding this:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post678768
I've been testing the list and I've been thinking in SAndTell , Reanimator and BUG Strategies also,
I think this will be:
Reanimator:
+1 Duress
+3 Karakas
=
-4 gitaxian
SAndTell:
+1 Duress
+3 Karakas
=
-4 gitaxian
BUG Control: (Jaceliliana No Tarmo)
Maybe same as RUG?
BUG Tempo: (Tarmo Deathrite lately)
Maybe same as RUG?
- I don't think the second Tendrils base could be useful with Reanimator and SaTell
- The gitaxian I think is the card to take out on these match ups but really not sure, I just don't think -1 Grim could be a good idea and decreasing the Threat count. Maybe taking -2snaps as seems a slow card agains them leaving 2 gitaxian.
- The reality is that gitaxian seems to shine in these match ups so I don't think what to take, same is applicable to BUG.
Please give me your advice.
@ac3eb
ad naus comes in against any deck that might be faster than you or any deck with discard. Maximizing "bomb" spells is important. I played the IGGY in the board for awhile and I decided it wasn't awesome enough to stay. The 3 thoughtseizes come in vs many decks: rug blade maverick deadguy ale high tide..... The probes come out first usually.
Hey guys I was wondering if it is really that important to invest in grim tutor. I was playing a small tourney last night and I realised after my infernal tutors got extracted then that's when a burning wish can find a grim tutor into past in flames. Why not just put a single past in flames in the sideboard as well? I am sure there are other applications for grim tutor but I can't seem to think of any. :tongue:
most people do run a pif or iggy in the board, did you not have any burning wish engines?Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1987
Since Burning Wish is removed from the game after resolving, it can't be recurred with Past in Flames (or IGG). Grim Tutor however, can be recurred with PiF or IGG.Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1987
With all your Infernal Tutors extracted and the Burning Wish you used removed from the game, it may be difficult to find something to get your Tendrils after a PiF or IGG.
Cheers
http://www.eternal-central.com/?p=3216
Timo makes a good point about tutor may help
I do have igg in the side but no pif.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rekk
Thanks for the replies guys, I think i might really be sinking in the buy the grim tutor. yea i totally agree having a grim tutor to flashback after past in flames is so important if infernal tutor is being extracted.
When I ran the 2nd Ad Naus in the board, I tended to board out the 2nd Grim Tutor as well, and board down to 15 lands.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaberTooth
I have been out of legacy for about a year or so now and looking into playing a 30 man or so tournament this weekend on Sunday at a CMT in Ottawa. Just wondering if the burnwish plan is no longer good as I am seeing a lot of people running the 2 grim tutors and a sideboard karakas and abrupt decay.
As I don't really have a clue what the meta game will look like and I can't find any grim tutors to buy at the moment is there any updated wish lists? I know there is a really good article by Timo but with out the grim tutor should I move a inferno to the sideboard, as he suggests you buy one but that doesn't seem likely at the moment.
And should i look towards switching to the UBG version later down the road?
Edit: As most hate bears seem to be legendary , would phant image be useful at all for the sb for non wish versions.
You can still run the wish version, it's definitely still viable. I wouldn't run an IT in the board -- just accept that you can't win with Burning Wish as your only action and adjust your play accordingly - it doesn't make any sense to put your best card in the sideboard just to make the worst card in your maindeck slightly less bad. You could run something like Preordain in the SB, so you can use an early drawn BW to just improve your hand quality a little bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by [PMP]Krevvy
I think as long as Miracles is a thing, UBGr or just UBG is going to be the best option down the road.
.
That'd only be useful against Iona and other big legendary dudes. For the rest: Image is CMC2, so bad for Ad Nauseam, and furthermore it serves no purpose (doesn't kill normal creaturews, you have nothing to copy).Quote:
Originally Posted by [PMP]Krevvy
Against the many hate beats of late, I tried 3x Disfigure in the side. That worked okay, because they could also kill turn 1 Lackey to justify a slow kill versus Goblins, and turn 1 Mother of Runes which would otherwise protect the hatebear from your removal. But... there's a reason everybody plays Dread of Night. It's good. And Karakas bounces a hatebear regardless of Mother of Runes protecting it. Lastly the new Abrupt Decay can also destroy Counterbalance, which usually spells a loss for us, so that's also highly relevant. A selection of those three cards, suplemented by some bounce spells, should be your anti-hate package imho.
I cant agree more, splashing green in the sideboard for decay and xantid swarm rocks. Usually second game, your opponent will side out STP or creature removal for more permission, that is why xantid swarm will take them by surprise. Decay not only targets counterbalance, thalia or teeg, it also hits less seen cards like thorn of amethyst, chalice of the void, rule of law, pyrostatic pillar etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronm678
If you're going to Wish->something and that something is going to be business to be used this turn or next, it seems like Time Spiral would be a legit option. Drawing 7 cards in the deck, particularly with mana available (you're going to untap at least 2-3 lands in this deck), is going to be very good for you. I still don't like Burning Wish, but if you find yourself frequently in the situation where you have boatloads of mana and nothing to spend it on (i.e. don't own Grim Tutor), Time Spiral seems like it would be fine.
To Emidln Dark Ritual and who ever else it concerns. Just sleeved up the list. I came across a hand that blew my mind. It was 2 Delta 2 LED 1 LP 1 Snapcaster and a Ad Nauseam,a turn 1 win. Maybe a turn 2 to be safe? But I'd do it turn 1.
How often do these hands happen?
Not so sure I'm sold on the bording strategy yet but Snapcaster seems to be good.
Uhm.. How the hell are you casting the Ad Nauseam in your hand on turn 1?Quote:
Originally Posted by MTG Junkie
Edit: Apologies -- Bourbon didn't let me see the snapcaster in hand.
[QUOTE=Chikenbok;686658]Uhm.. How the hell are you casting the Ad Nauseam in your hand on turn 1?
UHM..... look a lil closer and figure it out. Its right in front of you.
2 Delta 2 LED 1 LP 1 Snapcaster and a Ad NauseamQuote:
Originally Posted by Chikenbok
1. Land > fetch 1 blue mana
2. Cast Lp > 1 colorless mana
3. Cast 2 LED
4. Cast Snapcaster off land and lotus petal
5. Respond by breaking both LED for 6 mana
6. Snapcaster Resolves giving Ad Nauseum flashback
7. Ad Nauseum with 1 floating or wait a turn to do it with protection or two floating
Many apologies, did not see the snapcaster and spent a while staring at the cards in my hand confused as hell.
Top 4'd a 154-person tournament in Brazil with this list:
1 Volcanic Island
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Underground Sea
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Swamp
1 Scalding Tarn
4 Ponder
4 Polluted Delta
1 Past In Flames
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion`s Eye Diamond
1 Island
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Duress
4 Dark Ritual
1 Chrome Mox
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Cabal Ritual
3 Burning Wish
4 Brainstorm
1 Badlands
1 Ad NauseamSideboard
2 Xantid Swarm
1 Tropical Island
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Pyroclasm
1 Past in Flames
1 Massacre
3 Karakas
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Duress
2 Abrupt Decay
My losses were to a RUG in the Swiss and a Sneak and Show on the Top 4. Will post a report if I find my notes.
Turn 1 wins are <5%, they do happen occasionally, and almost always off ad naus - that hand actually has a >25% chance of fizzling on the turn 1 kill, as you've used half your LEDs, and you are probably going to need LED or a grim tutor to end the game there.Quote:
Originally Posted by MTG Junkie
Keep in mind, I wouldn't put too much of that hand on snapcaster being good - most hands with 2 LEDs, a dark rit, and business are very good, whether or not you win turn 1.
Congrats! The list looks like Timo Schunemann's but with an upgraded SB. Really interested to read the report.Quote:
Originally Posted by rgripp
How do those Karakas work out for you guys in the Maverick match up?
Looks good on paper both answer teeg and thalia, and dont care about the mother. But I have never tried it but can see two big problems, wasteland and karakas. They can just wasteland in there turn and replay the guy after its get "karakas" to their hand.
Karakas is incredible. I haven't faced maverick much after adopting Emidln's list, but karakas -> bounce thalia/teeg -> go off immediately is a sweet feeling.
Drawing the 1 of ad nauseam is a matter of luck, and drawing 2 LED's alongside snapcaster and petal alongside ad nauseam is even luckier. I have never opened with that hand or something like it, but eventually it will happen. Just don't expect to get hands like that regularly, I usually go off turn 3 with Emidln's list. Sometimes turn 2 but brainstorm is almost always involved in turn 2 kills as that card can just give you the nuts. Turn 1 happens a few times in a tournament, if that. All that matters to me is if I win or lose a given game, if I get a win in a super cool way or something that's great but a win is a win.
Hey guys,
I just obtained a couple Grim Tutors, so I would like to run this deck at a local Legacy tournament. I have played High Tide and TES in tournaments, so I am familiar with combo in Legacy, however this deck is a different beast. Please give any advice you have or link to helpful articles. Here is the list that I have in mind:
4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
2 Island
1 Swamp
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
4 LED
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Infernal Tutor
2 Grim Tutor
1 Tendrils
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Past in Flames
SB:
4 Dread of Night
3 Karakas
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Bayou
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
2 (???)
What should I run for the final slots? Thoughtseize? Inquisition? GY hate? My "meta" is essentially unknown, but I live in the US, so people love playing UWx decks and Delver right now. What is a good SB plan against RUG Delver?
Thanks for any help you all have to offer! It has been a long times since I have been on these forums.
Carpet of FlowersQuote:
Originally Posted by Patrunkenphat7
Itīs the nuts against those tempo strategies and negates most Dazes and Spell Pierces. If you can stick one of them during your first or second turn, you have plenty of time to setup. I would not recommend adding more disruption, cause you already have eight (!) spells maindeck. Against an aggressive deck like RUG youīll want to draw some business.
Iīd try to squeeze one more carpet in, however. For reference, this is my sideboard with an identical maindeck:
3 Carpet of Flowers
4 Xantid Swarm
3 Dread of Night
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Bayou
However, I donīt like Karakas in this deck, so this makes up at least 2 slots.
I tend to agree, that Karakas looks a bit iffy, if you can't even use it's mana to cast something like Silence (See T.E.S.)
Thanks for the input! If you were to board in 3 Carpet of Flowers against RUG Delver, what cards do you board out? Also, if you board in Abrupt Decays against Miracles for Counterbalance, what cards do you board out there?
Thanks
I currently board 2 Carpet of Flowers in the UBg version and 1 Silence (6th chant effect) and 1 Empty the Warrens in the UBw(g) version against RUG. Boarding an extra land or two is definately an option (in your the bayou) against mana disruption.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrunkenphat7
Against Miracles I board out the Mox (which you don't run), the 4th Cabal Ritual, a Gitaxian Probe and basic land(s) for 3 Decays and green land(s). Boarding out is usually harder than boarding in. Against many decks you replace protection with protection (bounce over discard/chants for example) but against blue decks you don't want to board out protection spells since carpet isn't that much better than a discard spell so if you're switching them it's a low value sideboard slot (and you don't want to board up to 10 disruption spells either, imo) which you'd rather not run. This is the reason I only board two cards in that matchup and for the Carpets I usually replace at least one probe and another of our 'worst' cards (Cabal Ritual, Mox, Probe, 2nd Grim Tutor). When I have a singleton Empty the Warrens in the board I tend to not board out any probes (they're insane with the EtW plan) and board out the Ad Nauseam & Cabal Rit for the Empty and Silence against RUG.
I think Karakas is decent in the versions with white and definately prefer it over a MD bounce spell in any storm variant. Never ran it in a list with no white spells though. But I feel it's still decent in them.