[Deck] GW/x Maverick

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Originally Posted by Barook

I'll give the following list a try (Cockatrice put it out in that random order):

4 Windswept Heath
3 Savannah
3 Wasteland
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Karakas
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Maze of Ith
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Mother of Runes
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Batterskull
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Scrubland
2 Bayou
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Duress
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Birds of Paradise
2 Thoughtseize
1 Sylvan Library

SB: 1 Oblivion Ring
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 1 Engineered Plague
SB: 1 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 1 Zuran Orb
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

4th DRS should be an Ooze, but it should do its job until I can get my hands on one. 1 Duress might be replaced with another Thoughtseize, depending on its performance. I'm probably cutting Cavern of Souls since I don't play that many Humans in the current list - but what should I add? I think a 4th Wasteland might be good, although a 2nd Canopy has its charm as well.

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List looks good. Cavern 1 of is good because you are running a tri color.
Maybe a basic Swamp? Or bojuka bog?

Does anyone run life from the loam? My buddy runs it as a one of main deck and it has been Damn solid as another way to waste your opponent out of the game

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Originally Posted by AlbyLegacy

List looks good. Cavern 1 of is good because you are running a tri color.
Maybe a basic Swamp? Or bojuka bog?

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Cavern is actually underwhelming because I'm run 3 colors and too many spread creature types.

For now, I'm going with the 4th Savannah. I'm not a fan of the basic swamp since the deck isn't that black-intensive and it might hinder my actual spells if I have it in my opening seven.

MD Bog might be a possibility. Although 4 DRS + Ooze + GSZ give the deck already plenty of ways to attack the GY MD. Although it would open up a SB slot, which might be actually interesting.

To go back to the PW discussion: Has anybody tried running both Elspeth and Garruk Relentless in the same 75? It would double the chance to draw a walker without screwing yourself when you draw the second one.

So, candidates for the "flex spot": Garruk, Choke, Thrun, Zealous Persecution or Sigarda, Host of Herons

Edit: Why are people only talking about LftL when considering a Wastelock? CoW should work as well, without spending mana all the time, and it can be E-tutored. Yes, it's vulnerable to AD and the likes, but LftL gets hit just as hard by GY hate.

How often has it been the case that you have had an Elspeth, Knight-Errant in play and been, "Oh, gee, now I'm going to lose because this card I have in hand is a duplicate of the incredibly powerful permanent I have in play that I can't cast."

I am pretty sure the only times this happens to me involve Pithing Needle or Phyrexian Revoker.

My experience with multiple planeswalkers (qty greater than 1 total in deck) has been that they are difficult to cast. The better 'walkers are 4 mana (Elspy & Garruk). The frequency of seeing both 'walkers in your hand is fairly low (about one in 16 games more or less). Deploying them would take take a decent effort to ramp to 4 mana. Having them glut in your hand due to a small mana screw is not desirable. Outside of Miracles and Landstill, where would we want two copies of 'walkers? Keep in mind both players can maintain Elspeth on board, so "vindicate" is not longer a viable option.

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Originally Posted by Barook

Edit: Why are people only talking about LftL when considering a Wastelock? CoW should work as well, without spending mana all the time, and it can be E-tutored. Yes, it's vulnerable to AD and the likes, but LftL gets hit just as hard by GY hate.

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Well people (me only really) asked because loam just seems like the better card for our deck considering we are a base green deck. And like you said, abrupt decay hits crucible. Also a start vs some one like, T1 Noble T2 Wasteland you, loam back wasteland, seems like a powerful tempo play. Similar to going mana dork into thalia plus waste ifs also quite a powerful play. Loam allows you to go on a more aggressive wasteland plan. And wasting the crap out of the green black greedy mana bases is probably what you will be doing anyway so the is no reason to unnecessarily expose your lock to AD. Basically in a situation like this, what does crucible really do here that loam can't?

After getting unlucky with Vial Maverick and always going 2-2 or worse the last few weeks, I immediately went 4-0 and won the latest Legacy DE with the new Black Maverick build above - sweet!

Short tournament report:

R1: Reanimator

G1: He goes for an early Griselbrand via Entomb. I was expecting Tin Fins, but turns out he's on Reanimator, beating me slowly down with Grizzelbees. Meanwhile, I lay down DRS and Mom on Turn 2, followed up with a KotR who fetches Karakas. At that point, it was game. No idea why he didn't try to draw into counters, though.

G2: He keeps a no-lander hand for whatever reason. I lay down a T1 DRS, he discards Griselbrand, plays Petal --> Careful Study and concedes.

No idea what the hell that was.

R2: Dredge

G1: He does his thing while I can land a DRS. But it's already too late and he can sac a Narcomoeba to Therapy for 3 tokens. I play another DRS and he starts the beats with a second Moeba and his 3 zombies (for some reason, he didn't use the other Therapies to produce more tokens). I block with my second DRS to get rid of his 3 Bridges and trade a Pridemage with a Zombie a turn later. I get landflooded and durdle around with my DRS to stay alive, removing important creatures in the process. At 5 life, I finally draw a GSZ which searches for Ooze while I have shittons of mana. He concedes.

G2: He goes City, Breakthrough. I play Bog. He lays down a Coliseum, I waste it and play DRS. He concedes. (I also had E-tutor for Gravedigger's Cage in hand - good times)

R3: Junk

This was more or less a mirror match. He didn't run Moms, but Liliana, among other things.

G1: I get in some early damage and amass creatures on the board while getting rid of his Batterskull and Jitte. However, his second SFM grabs him a SoFF. He's at 9 at that point, but I can't punch through since his 2 DRS neutered my KotR. Luckily, I draw Batterskull and form a Plan B. I fetch Cradle, equip Batterskull to my BoP which I fetched early for manafixing and swing for the win despite him pulling some double Liliana shenanigans.

G2: Lots of removal flinging at the beginning of the game, but then I get stuck on one Scrubland and he lays down a Liliana while I have nothing on the board. Game over.

G3: I can stick a DRS and a Jitte, but he got an early double DRS and a flashbacked Lingering Souls, which put lots of pressure on me. I try to stay alive while his DRS and tokens wreck havoc on my live total. A Phyrexian Revoker stops his DRS from killing me, while I dance around 1 life point and take out one of creatures each turn. Mom comes down and so does a KotR, but he draws a Liliana and Mom must go. While things look dire, I draw GSZ --> Cradle --> Ooze with tons of mana. With the extra life gained, I can easily kill the rest of his board without holding back and swing with an 8/8 Ooze, among other things.

R4: BigBlackPox playing Pox:

G1: I get an early DRS, Mom and Jitte online while he has Cursed Scroll and Tabernacle. Thoughtseize hits Liliana, while I lose my DRS to Smallpox. Mom with Jitte continues the beats. He made a mistake when he tried to kill her with Factory + Scroll (he had to block anyway since he was at 2 life), but was one mana short. He draws another Factory the next turn, but I topdeck Wasteland and he's toast.

G2: I get an early Ooze and KotR (which should get rid of his Tabernacle), but he goes Ritual --> Perish. I topdeck Library and sculp my hand while he's still manascrewed. I draw DRS and GSZ for KotR, he gets a Liliana. I lay down Pridemage and a Revoker for Liliana, however both die protecting KotR from double Smallpox. My hand was gone and he had one card left - another Smallpox, as my Duress revealed. KotR kills Liliana while he gets his Nether Spirit into play. I could StP it, but prefer to draw Elspeth which I play thanks to KotR mana tricks. He swings with his second Factory since I'm only at 5 life due Library draws and fetch uses, but in the end, it's futile, since he's at 15 life and I grab a fetchland to let my KotR grow to 12/12. One Elspeth jump later and he's a goner.



Overall, I'm more than satisfied with the deck's performance so far. Its capability to combat the graveyard is downright insane. For now, 4 DRS are here to stay since he's the nuts. 1 BoP for mana fixing is enough.

I can't say much about the board or the discard package, though. They did their jobs, but more playtesting is required to figure out the right numbers.

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Originally Posted by Barook

Cavern is actually underwhelming because I'm run 3 colors and too many spread creature types.

For now, I'm going with the 4th Savannah. I'm not a fan of the basic swamp since the deck isn't that black-intensive and it might hinder my actual spells if I have it in my opening seven.

MD Bog might be a possibility. Although 4 DRS + Ooze + GSZ give the deck already plenty of ways to attack the GY MD. Although it would open up a SB slot, which might be actually interesting.

To go back to the PW discussion: Has anybody tried running both Elspeth and Garruk Relentless in the same 75? It would double the chance to draw a walker without screwing yourself when you draw the second one.

So, candidates for the "flex spot": Garruk, Choke, Thrun, Zealous Persecution or Sigarda, Host of Herons

Edit: Why are people only talking about LftL when considering a Wastelock? CoW should work as well, without spending mana all the time, and it can be E-tutored. Yes, it's vulnerable to AD and the likes, but LftL gets hit just as hard by GY hate.

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Year I agree with cavern not being that great in dark maverick. You need your color lands .

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

Does anyone run life from the loam? My buddy runs it as a one of main deck and it has been Damn solid as another way to waste your opponent out of the game

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Its really good in the punishing maverick deck.
The other decks just seem to use sylvan library for more card selection over card advantage.

How are you handling Shardless BUG? Especially the versions with Whipflare seem troublesome.

I've already discussed it with Sunyveil a bit. SFM + SOFaF seems nice, but SoFaF dies to AD. He made the suggestion that Master of the Wild Hunt might have some merit. At the very least, that sounds like an interesting option since it's immune to both AD and Whipflare.

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Originally Posted by Koby

My experience with multiple planeswalkers (qty greater than 1 total in deck) has been that they are difficult to cast. The better 'walkers are 4 mana (Elspy & Garruk). The frequency of seeing both 'walkers in your hand is fairly low (about one in 16 games more or less). Deploying them would take take a decent effort to ramp to 4 mana. Having them glut in your hand due to a small mana screw is not desirable. Outside of Miracles and Landstill, where would we want two copies of 'walkers? Keep in mind both players can maintain Elspeth on board, so "vindicate" is not longer a viable option.

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What if you actually want to draw the one.

Why do people want so bad to run random lucky one ofs they have no way to tutor for. It's like a goddamn neurosis.

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Originally Posted by Barook

How are you handling Shardless BUG? Especially the versions with Whipflare seem troublesome.

I've already discussed it with Sunyveil a bit. SFM + SOFaF seems nice, but SoFaF dies to AD. He made the suggestion that Master of the Wild Hunt might have some merit. At the very least, that sounds like an interesting option since it's immune to both AD and Whipflare.

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I really love wild hunt. He is basically The green lava mancer. 90% of the creatures in legacy that matter are power 2 or less. He also builds a clock with out you having to over extend your board and loose to a sweeper.

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Originally Posted by AlbyLegacy

I really love wild hunt. He is basically The green lava mancer. 90% of the creatures in legacy that matter are power 2 or less. He also builds a clock with out you having to over extend your board and loose to a sweeper.

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So he's worth a sideboard slot as a GSZ target? Building an army to blank Liliana has potential as well.

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Originally Posted by Barook

So he's worth a sideboard slot as a GSZ target? Building an army to blank Liliana has potential as well.

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I think he is worth some testing. Might be a hiding gem.

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Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin

What if you actually want to draw the one.

Why do people want so bad to run random lucky one ofs they have no way to tutor for. It's like a goddamn neurosis.

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That's what sideboards are for. Unlike Blue decks with Brainstorms, we don't have ways to maximize redundant copies of non-creature cards in this deck. When the function of this deck relies on hitting just the right <creatures> in the right time frame, drawing redundant or useless copies of non-creature cards (StP, Sylvan Library, 2nd 'Walker) serve no purpose but to set up a dead draw. At least with Sylvan Library, there's the option of setting it back on top and shuffling it away; but outside that unique case drawing Elspeth #2 when you needed something else could be the difference of winning and losing a close game.

I don't think there's a logical proof for it either. It's all about the feel. Some game you really need the Elspeth (both first or second), and others you don't need either. I would rather hedge one in maindeck and shore it up with sideboard copies. This serves to keep the sideboard flexible enough.

"Jack of All Trades, Master of None" in the maindeck.
"Laser focused" after sideboard.

Just won another Legacy Daily 4-0. My track record so far isn't too shabby with the current build: 4-0, 0-2 (lost twice in a row to Omniscience bullshit yesterday) and 4-0 again today.

Match-ups today were UR S&T with Omniscience (got revenge for the loss yesterday), Elves! (got lucky), BUG Shardless and Reanimator.

Same deck as before, with the only change being the replacement of the rather useless Zuran Orb with Master of the Wild Hunt. Only got him really active in G3 against BUG, but he did a damn well job there, completely dismantling his board position. I could see him being useful in various creature match-ups as well, but that needs more testing.

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Originally Posted by Barook

Just won another Legacy Daily 4-0. My track record so far isn't too shabby with the current build: 4-0, 0-2 (lost twice in a row to Omniscience bullshit yesterday) and 4-0 again today.

Match-ups today were UR S&T with Omniscience (got revenge for the loss yesterday), Elves! (got lucky), BUG Shardless and Reanimator.

Same deck as before, with the only change being the replacement of the rather useless Zuran Orb with Master of the Wild Hunt. Only got him really active in G3 against BUG, but he did a damn well job there, completely dismantling his board position. I could see him being useful in various creature match-ups as well, but that needs more testing.

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Good stuff. Keep us updates how that card does.

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Originally Posted by AlbyLegacy

Good stuff. Keep us updates how that card does.

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Some versions of Nic Fit ran Ulvenwald Tracker. I wonder if that would be a better GSZ target if you just need a green Grim Lavamancer? Of course, it does not give the same board presence, but it's always fun to make a creature fight your Knight :)

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Originally Posted by SirTylerGalt

Some versions of Nic Fit ran Ulvenwald Tracker. I wonder if that would be a better GSZ target if you just need a green Grim Lavamancer? Of course, it does not give the same board presence, but it's always fun to make a creature fight your Knight :)

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I've considered Ulvenwald Tracker, but I see various problems with it:

- it needs other creatures to be good
- it costs mana to activate
- it dies to AD, Whipflare and lots of other stuff

While Tracker is significantly cheaper, I don't think he's good enough, but I could be wrong. MotWH seems overall better - he comes with his own built-in army and has immunity to certain kinds of removal, especially the ones common in the BUG Shardless match-up, which was the reason for his inclusion in the first place.

@AlbyLegacy: I'll try, but there needs to be more testing. I kind of like him so far.

FYI (and I'll post more once I get home form work)

Traditional (GW Zenith) Maverick got 2nd place at a 54 person tournament last night. The pilot is pretty new to competitive environment as well. This leads me to think that the deck is good again, and the pilot played exceptionally well. I'll ask him for better details, or to post his report if he's got an account.

Cheers

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Originally Posted by Koby

This leads me to think that the deck is good again

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That's actually suprising, though, Miracles is all but gone. Although the reduced numbers might help. I'm rather puzzled why Omnitell isn't tearing apart everything yet.

I think the black splash has a lot of merit since DRS is an insane workhorse in various match-ups and does an excellent job at keeping opposing DRS at bay while you could care less about it.

A package of Ooze/DRS/GSZ gives you a very powerful graveyard-hate package at high consistency MD which can be boosted even further with a few sideboard slots to insane levels. The build with 4 DRS I'm currently using is probably the most graveyard-hating deck in the format post-sideboarding.

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Originally Posted by Barook

That's actually suprising, though, Miracles is all but gone. Although the reduced numbers might help. I'm rather puzzled why Omnitell isn't tearing apart everything yet.

I think the black splash has a lot of merit since DRS is an insane workhorse in various match-ups and does an excellent job at keeping opposing DRS at bay while you could care less about it.

A package of Ooze/DRS/GSZ gives you a very powerful graveyard-hate package at high consistency MD which can be boosted even further with a few sideboard slots to insane levels. The build with 4 DRS I'm currently using is probably the most graveyard-hating deck in the format post-sideboarding.

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First point, three Miracle decks made Top 8 at this tournament. It was an odd bracket: Miracles (W,W,W) vs Miracles plays the winner of Sneak Show (W,L) vs Miracles ...LOL; other side of the bracket was Dredge (W, L) vs Goblins plays the winner of Maverick (W,W,L) vs BUG Delver. So pretty much Aggro on one side, and control/combo on the other. Another Miracle also made 9th place. I think for the most part, Maverick deck dodged like crazy.

Additionally, there were at least 3 Sneak Show decks and at least 3 OmniHall decks at this tournament, so it wasn't for a lack of them.

Second point, I dont differentiate greatly between GW and GW/b. The splash helps to address combo decks, but the core of the deck is its strength.

I guess we'll have to wait and see what Matt (said player) writes up to know the exact details.

Tracker isn't that bad. The fact that he comes online quicker vs stuff like goyf is nice. Master off the wild hunt takes a few turns to really start doing anything. Consider that he comes down turn 3 at earliest, more often than not turn 4 via GSZ, Then he isn't even taking down mid sized goyfs until turn 6-7. I played him for a long time in nic fit and it was always very meh

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

Tracker isn't that bad. The fact that he comes online quicker vs stuff like goyf is nice. Master off the wild hunt takes a few turns to really start doing anything. Consider that he comes down turn 3 at earliest, more often than not turn 4 via GSZ, Then he isn't even taking down mid sized goyfs until turn 6-7. I played him for a long time in nic fit and it was always very meh

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Even with Tracker, you need a creature of decent size to get the killing started. And unless you have a decent-sized KotR, I doubt you're going to take down a Goyf that easily.

Besides, Goyfs are less of a problem unless in multiples or being at least 5/6 since you can work up the graveyard quite nicely.

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Originally Posted by Koby

First point, three Miracle decks made Top 8 at this tournament. It was an odd bracket: Miracles (W,W,W) vs Miracles plays the winner of Sneak Show (W,L) vs Miracles ...LOL; other side of the bracket was Dredge (W, L) vs Goblins plays the winner of Maverick (W,W,L) vs BUG Delver. So pretty much Aggro on one side, and control/combo on the other. Another Miracle also made 9th place. I think for the most part, Maverick deck dodged like crazy.

Additionally, there were at least 3 Sneak Show decks and at least 3 OmniHall decks at this tournament, so it wasn't for a lack of them.

Second point, I dont differentiate greatly between GW and GW/b. The splash helps to address combo decks, but the core of the deck is its strength.

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That was certainly a lucky bracket for him, then.

And I wouldn't say that Sneak & Show isn't too bad of a match-up, despite them getting stupid auto-wins from time to time. It only gets really troublesome if they can land an Omniscience which is pretty much instant game over unless they have zero gas left and brick. That ruined me yesterday because my Karakas in play was turned useless.

I do think that there's a difference between the GW and and GW/b variant since DRS' reach ability is quite powerful on its own. Hell, I shot a BUG player from 20 to 0 by just using 3x DRS today without swinging a single time. Maverick and variants might be an interesting topic for your next Podcast.

I'll add it to the list of growing topics. I would certainly feel better chatting about it with some practice behind it to back it up. Guess I have a new project...

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Originally Posted by Koby

I'll add it to the list of growing topics. I would certainly feel better chatting about it with some practice behind it to back it up. Guess I have a new project...

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I think the growing number of decks adapting Deathrite Shaman is a topic in itself which probably also has a broader appeal to the audience.

Edit: Also how to deal with them. The topic was already slightly touched in the last podcast, but only from a GY-deck perspective. DRS can ruin your day even without caring about your graveyard.

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Originally Posted by Barook

Even with Tracker, you need a creature of decent size to get the killing started. And unless you have a decent-sized KotR, I doubt you're going to take down a Goyf that easily.

Besides, Goyfs are less of a problem unless in multiples or being at least 5/6 since you can work up the graveyard quite nicely.

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Just wanted to barge in, as i have been using tracker in the sideboard starting last week, to pretty good results so far in creature based matchups, mostly. Also, as far is the argument of having a decent sized creature argument goes, when it is mostly true, I had situations when a small creature was enough for tracker to do his job. For exemple, exalted creature interact well with him (exemple I ran in last week, I attack with thalia, exalted trigger resolves, shoot down his deathrite with 3/2 thalia), and, mostly, something along the lines of a 2/2 is more than enough to take out what you need to take out (I use it mostly to kill deathrites, elves, merfolks lords, and I imagine I would side it in against goblins, but I did not get to play against that deck yet). Aside from that, he has also been very good with garruck relentless in general, let it be the 2/2 tokens or the deathtouch tokens (obviously). Finally, I don`t think the card should be judged by it's (poor) ability to kill huge creatures, because, in my experience, you are not ever really shooting down big guys with it, but always the little creatures you happen to find in creature matchups.

however, I am interested in seeing how master of the wild hunt goes for you, as I like what the card brings in general. My only concern was the mana cost, and the fact that you have to wait a whole turn before it does anything( however, to same can be said about tracker). Looking forward to this.

@ThediscoPower: Tracker might be better in builds that are more exalted-heavy (thus including Hierarchs). But since I only run 2 Pridemages, I rarely get Exalted triggers. And I currently don't run Garruk Relentless (which has the odd problem that his flipped form dies to AD because his CMC is :0: - something that hasn't been mentioned before).

MotWH is probably going to fill a niche since he's immune to AD. I like hearing "I can't deal with that". Yes, he's slow (and thus not MD material), but speed isn't your main concern in the match-ups where he matters since you're going to grind out your opponent.

You do have a point. Being higher than 3 CMC actually means a lot these days.

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Originally Posted by Barook

@ThediscoPower: Tracker might be better in builds that are more exalted-heavy (thus including Hierarchs). But since I only run 2 Pridemages, I rarely get Exalted triggers. And I currently don't run Garruk Relentless (which has the odd problem that his flipped form dies to AD because his CMC is :0: - something that hasn't been mentioned before).

MotWH is probably going to fill a niche since he's immune to AD. I like hearing "I can't deal with that". Yes, he's slow (and thus not MD material), but speed isn't your main concern in the match-ups where he matters since you're going to grind out your opponent.

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well this is the difference I think. I am not bringing in tracker nor garruck against shardless or jund, so I think I understand where you are comming from, as you want a response specific to shardless. From my side, i have been satisfied with thrun and wilt-leaf liege to bring in against them. If not those, I believe even loxodon smiter isn't bad against them (die to decay, but at least it's the only thing that hits it), but I would probably run a second liege before running smiter if I believe a lot of bug/jund are to show up in a tourney.

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Originally Posted by ThediscoPower

well this is the difference I think. I am not bringing in tracker nor garruck against shardless or jund, so I think I understand where you are comming from, as you want a response specific to shardless. From my side, i have been satisfied with thrun and wilt-leaf liege to bring in against them. If not those, I believe even loxodon smiter isn't bad against them (die to decay, but at least it's the only thing that hits it), but I would probably run a second liege before running smiter if I believe a lot of bug/jund are to show up in a tourney.

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What's the problem with shardless/jund? Just play Sigarda in your main and win. Ramp up, resolve, tap sideways 3-4 times. They can not handle her except with a Pernicious Deed so should be kind of free win.

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Originally Posted by useL

What's the problem with shardless/jund? Just play Sigarda in your main and win. Ramp up, resolve, tap sideways 3-4 times. They can not handle her except with a Pernicious Deed so should be kind of free win.

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5/6 mana is alot to ask for, especially since they run a full set of Wasteland. 4/5 mana is already alot.

And good luck with Sigarda if they have a Baleful Strix active since it needs to be answered via Mom/StP first.

Can't say much about Jund, though, since I've only played two matches against it (Punishing variant) so far and the pilot was kinda inexperienced with a bit of a weird build. So the data of doing reasonable well against it should be taken with a grain of salt.

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Originally Posted by useL

What's the problem with shardless/jund? Just play Sigarda in your main and win. Ramp up, resolve, tap sideways 3-4 times. They can not handle her except with a Pernicious Deed so should be kind of free win.

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Sigarda is only playable in the straight g/w version, as without something like craddle it's borderline impossible to cast it reliably. Bah, even resolving thrun is enough sometimes in those games. As it has been proven in the past, when in doubt, play hexproof. I heard wizard thought that it was somewhat more interactive than shroud.

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Originally Posted by ThediscoPower

Sigarda is only playable in the straight g/w version, as without something like craddle it's borderline impossible to cast it reliably. Bah, even resolving thrun is enough sometimes in those games. As it has been proven in the past, when in doubt, play hexproof. I heard wizard thought that it was somewhat more interactive than shroud.

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I run Cradle in my 3 color version. While it isn't as essential as in the Vial version, it's nice to have when you need a broken amount of mana. Sigarda is powerful, but still expensive. Thrun is nice as well, but suffers alot once your opponent has 4/5 Gofys or something equally big.

Thrun, Sigarda and MotWH have all advantages and disadvantages. The question is which one fits which deck type and which meta the best?

I have been fooling around with a GWB version of M@verick's Vial build, and it feels pretty powerful. The individual card quality is quite high and the deck has strong draws against almost every deck in the format. Still, I think a lot of the reason why I like the deck is confirmation bias and soft testing. I honestly have no idea how it would fare in a truly competitive environment, because I haven't actually played any sanctioned matches with it yet.

Here's the current list:

1 Plains
1 Swamp
3 Marsh Flats
1 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas
2 Savannah
3 Windswept Heath
1 Verdant Catacombs
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Forest
1 Bayou
1 Maze of Ith

4 Dark Confidant
4 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Gaddock Teeg
3 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Qasali Pridemage

1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Thoughtseize
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 AEther Vial

SB: 3 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Lingering Souls
SB: 2 Oblivion Ring
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 2 Path to Exile
SB: 2 Crop Rotation
SB: 2 Duress
SB: 1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence

The sideboard feels all over the place and is probably not even close to as good as it can be. I'm finding myself without a board plan for matchups here and there. But the maindeck feels solid and when I open on curve it feels very strong.

Has anyone else tried this and found inherent weaknesses in the concept?

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Originally Posted by SirTylerGalt

Some versions of Nic Fit ran Ulvenwald Tracker. I wonder if that would be a better GSZ target if you just need a green Grim Lavamancer? Of course, it does not give the same board presence, but it's always fun to make a creature fight your Knight :)

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yea. I seen that card in some maverick decks as well. there is just so many ways to go with this deck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pans-Advocate

I have been fooling around with a GWB version of M@verick's Vial build, and it feels pretty powerful. The individual card quality is quite high and the deck has strong draws against almost every deck in the format. Still, I think a lot of the reason why I like the deck is confirmation bias and soft testing. I honestly have no idea how it would fare in a truly competitive environment, because I haven't actually played any sanctioned matches with it yet.

Here's the current list:

1 Plains
1 Swamp
3 Marsh Flats
1 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas
2 Savannah
3 Windswept Heath
1 Verdant Catacombs
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Forest
1 Bayou
1 Maze of Ith

4 Dark Confidant
4 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Gaddock Teeg
3 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Qasali Pridemage

1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Thoughtseize
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 AEther Vial

SB: 3 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Lingering Souls
SB: 2 Oblivion Ring
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 2 Path to Exile
SB: 2 Crop Rotation
SB: 2 Duress
SB: 1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence

The sideboard feels all over the place and is probably not even close to as good as it can be. I'm finding myself without a board plan for matchups here and there. But the maindeck feels solid and when I open on curve it feels very strong.

Has anyone else tried this and found inherent weaknesses in the concept?

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this looks more like a junk deck then Maverick deck. I should try vial in my GW maverick build.

@Pans-Advocate: I would definitely run a third equipment to prevent SFMs from blanking early. You also lack Gaea's Cradle which I found to be essential with the equipment plan.

And I don't think Vial is worth losing GSZ when you don't even run Wayfarer.

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And I don't think Vial is worth losing GSZ when you don't even run Wayfarer.

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This. Vial build is so strong bacause of this little dude, also Scryb Ranger is cut which has enough synergy with all the build which M@verick bring to perfection. If I would change anything there I would just change few hierarchs with Deadrite Shamans and probably some sb slots adopted to third color. You cut a lot of functional lands which was also stength of that build, now you just have Vial Junk which have more dead draws (for example vial in middle/late game). If you still keep that build I suggest third equipment - Sword of Light and Shadow - running 4 Dark Confidants and Thoughtsieze needs a lot of lifelink to face any aggro deck.

Some observations made today regarding MotWH in completely unrelated match-ups:

- 5 mana is already a stretch to reach. 6 mana for Sigarda seems unrealistic in a reasonable time frame.

- He blows against decks packing Bolts - but that was kinda expected.