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Lands, in the hands of an experienced player, should be able to kill you fast once it's locked you down.Quote:
Originally Posted by MechTactical
Also, whilst it's good to know that you learned from your play error, if you suspect slow play, call a judge.
I’m not experienced enough to determine slow play, but it probably was in this case. Although I wouldn’t have called a judge in any case, because this tournament isn’t all that serious, people are playing with proxies and the environment isn’t all that competitive (at least from my perspective), as a beginer I prefer this kind of environment anyway...Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkenslight
Funny thing about that match up was that I really missed a second needle. While I managed to play my lonely needle both games on wasteland, the lands player then just proceeded to “waste” me with ghost quarter. Despite of the recurring land destruction I managed to come over the top (or better to say would have) eventually. Next time I just have to win game 1, then he will slow play himself to death. In any case this meta seems ripe for MB relic, although I don’t know what to cut…
If you are not sure if slow play is occurring you can call a judge and ask them to watch if able to decide if slow play is actually a factor. You can also ask your opponent politely to speed up playQuote:
Originally Posted by MechTactical
Went 3-1 this weekly magic with this bant list:
// Lands
1 [10E] Island (3)
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
3 [A] Tropical Island
2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [M15] Forest (3)
2 [R] Tundra
1 [R] Savannah
1 [ZEN] Plains (6)
3 [ON] Windswept Heath
// Creatures
1 [PRE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
3 [SOM] Trinket Mage
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 [ZEN] Iona, Shield of Emeria
// Spells
4 [US] Show and Tell
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
3 [ZEN] Expedition Map
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
4 [AVR] Terminus
1 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
// Sideboard
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 [FNM] Krosan Grip
SB: 2 [R] Swords to Plowshares
SB: 2 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 [MMA] Knight of the Reliquary
SB: 2 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
Matchups were American Delver, 4C Delver (loss), Death and Taxes, Goblins.
Loss was to some insane hands on 4C Delver's part. x2 waste, x2 fow, x2 daze, x2 pyromancer in x2 games. Didn't sight Stp in game 2, but I feel that it was necessary to win this match.
@Rock, how are you boarding vs the combo matchups with that sideboard? It seems like you're just giving up the storm matchup in favor of having a better matchup vs infect, elves, and sneak. Is a counter package just not good enough for the sideboard with the lowered maindeck blue count?
Not giving up so much as changing it. Going with Surgicals, Revokers, STP (for the bee or lifegain) over the traditional options.Quote:
Originally Posted by somethingdotdotdot
ALl that being said, I'm strongly considering Trickbind for this open. My losses post-bant acceptance have all been avoidable with trickbind, which I have held back on, and trickbind further protects a greedier manabase.
Unsure on Trickbind or Repeal, and I think Trickbind is the safer bet with terminus/stp covering what repeal was mostly aimed at. Additionally, Trickbind would cover the storm matchup as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
Trickbind vs Stifle? How bad has the extra mana been in the early game? I imagine being able to go T2 cloudpost and protect it comes up fairly often.
Additionally, Trinket Mage. Since you're now going "all-in" on the Trinket Mage plan, is a 1-of EE and/or Pithing Needle not worth the spots in the 75? They're both really good in certain spots and having 4 virtual copiies of them seems really good.
Trickbind can't be countered, except by blind CB on 2 and spells that see no play in Legacy. Yes, 1v2 mana is sometimes relevant, but having the capacity to just blank Tendrils or Empty. In addition, it also blanks Miracle triggers, planeswalker activations, Top and DRS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathrite_Shaman
For all those going to the legacy open tomorrow good luck! 😀
Hi,
Long time reader here. I played UG 12 Post in our LGS yesterday evening (just a small 16ppl event unfortunately). Ended up 3-1 after 4 rounds of swiss.
Here is the list I played and a small report on how everything worked out:
Lands (26):
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Island
1 Forest
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Vesuva
1 Glacial Chasm
Creatures (7):
4 Primeval Titan
1 Trinket Mage
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Spells (27):
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Crop Rotation
3 Show and Tell
3 Expedition Map
3 Trickbind
2 Pithing Needle
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
2 Repeal
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Sideboard (15):
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Trinisphere
3 Krosan Grip
3 Flusterstorm
2 Blue Elemental Blast
Round 1 (against Punishing Blue) 0-2
G1:
He wins the roll and opens with Land, Mox Diamond, Dark Confidant. Not too great for me as it will be unanswered for a couple of turns and draw him a lot of cards. I get to resolve a Divining Top and start digging and ramping with an Expedition Map. He lands a Chalice@1 which hurts me REALLY bad as my hand consists of a lot of 1drops, but i can probably handle it with my Repeal and get things going. Unfortunately he also drops a Gaddock Teeg which blanks my Repeal and i am stuck on Lands, uncastable spells and a Top. On top of that (hahaha.. bad joke inc), my Top only reveals me more Lands and Brainstorms, Needles, and so on. Even fetching twice does not help and I am beaten to death by Gaddock and the Confidant.
G2:
I have to Mull to 5 and keep an okay hand which has 3 Lands, a Brainstorm and a Show and Tell. He opens up again with T1 Confidant into Wasteland, Wasteland, Wasteland + DRS + Lili. He denies me my third mana for Show and Tell and as my draws were Emrakul, Eye of Ugin, Ulamog and a Pithing Needle (which gets Abrupt Decay'ed within an eyeblink), I am forced to tap out after he resolves Life from the Loam and Slaughter Games for my Titans </3.
Summary:
As I am not too experienced with the deck, I am unsure if I am making the correct plays all the time. Thats why I am writing up the reports for some nice discussions about the key cards in the MUs etc. I guess in this case I just had some bad luck / draws and ended up losing. I don't think that this matchup should be unwinnable, although it felt like it :P
Round 2 (against Reanimator) 2-0
G1:
My opponent reanimates Griseldaddy in his 3rd turn and draws 7 cards. I draw a Pithing Needle and at least stop him from drawing cards like a sir. 2 Back to Back Glimmerposts + a Primeval Titan off a Cavern keep me alive while I am slowly but surely getting to huge amounts of mana while removing his GY (containing Iona and another Griseldaddy) with Bojuka Bog off my Titan. Shortly after that, Griseldaddy finds a nice friend in a Tidespout Tyrant, but he does not have any castable spells left to bounce my board. I am going all in and attack with my Titan to get Glacial Chasm. Indeed this buys me another turn as he does not find a castable spell and I am able to resolve Ulamog for both Griselbrand and the Tyrant and close out the game. This pretty much made up for all the bad luck I had in Round 1 I guess :D
G2:
I got Karakas, Relic and a Flusterstorm in hand and feel quite confortable. My Relic gets FoW'ed thoug and as I found a Surgical Extraction I am not too unhappy with this. Afterwards my opponent seems to have no action going. Fine for me as I hit my landdrops (no Cloudposts, though). Finally he finds an Entomb for Sire of Insanity and wants to Exhume. I Crop Rotate as a response which gets FoW'ed. My Flusterstorm is enough to stop FoW and the Exhume and i get Bojuka Bog to remove Sire (my opp seemed light on discard/entomb effects). I then resolve Primeval Titan (off a Karakas, Cavern, Bojuka Bog, Glimmerpost, Tropical Island, Island O.o.. weirdest 6 mana for Titan ever..) I get up to critical amounts of mana and close out the game.
Summary:
I think I got really really lucky in G1. After boarding we should be able to win against Reanimator.
Round 3 (against Storm) 2-1
G1:
Long story short, I end up Brainstorming twice, spinning my Top and Fetching twice but there is nothing which would stop him going off... He does and we move on to sideboarding.
G2:
We play the Draw-Go game. He is cantripping and I am spinning my Top (floating a Trickbind) and hitting landdrops. He then decides to combo off, discards my Flusterstorm but gets blown out by activating Top and Trickbind his Storm trigger. I assume he was quite new on storm/did not know about Trickbind being in my deck as he was rather surprised. He did not have enough mana to flashback Tendrils in the same turn and Primeval Titan (getting Bojuka Bog) seals the deal.
G3:
I get an opening 7 with Surgical Extraction, Trickbind, Flusterstorm and a Trinisphere.. Turn 4, I land the 3Sphere because i kept up mana all the time for my disruption spells. I even had U available after the 3Sphere just in case he could handle it and go off. But he did not and SnT -> Titan -> ramp wins me this Match. Again all i saw was a bunch of Ponders and Brainstorms.
Summary:
As long as he does not storm too fast, we should be able to compete here. Our disruption package seems well suited against storm. Especially with Trickbind... I really love this card :D
Round 4 (against Jund) 2-0
G1:
I win the roll and he starts with a DRS into Confidant which gets hit by Repeal. His Bloodbraid hits my Titan right before the turn I would be able to cast it. Thankfully, good guy Divining Top shows me another one and I get to resolve it, ramp up and .. thats pretty much it. He is not able to recover and I throw big dudes at him.
G2:
Again T1 DRS but this time he resolves Hymn to Tourach T2. Hits perfect (Cloudpost + Titan) and casts Surgical Extracion targeting my Cloudpost. I am pretty sure that this is a HUGE misplay as I think he should have removed the Titans. His 2 Wastelands get answered by Trickbind and Crop Rotation respectively and I resolve Show and Tell for another Titan which ramps me up to Ugin... Ugin > fair matchups as he sweeps his whole board (except for the lands). He never recovers and concedes the match.
Summary:
Titan is HUGE against fair decks I think. Maybe I am wrong but I remember some guys stating that you should board them out after G1. Why? If you land it, the game is pretty much over..
I am hoping for advice/ discussions! =)
Sorry for possible mistakes in my grammar/english as I am not a native speaker (I'm from Germany). Best of luck to all the guys playing 12Post today!
Greets
Marcel
nice list, probably I would play the same if I didn't use white...
one note: you cannot use repeal on chalice@1, its cmc is 0, so repeal would have cmc 1 :tongue:
You're true ofc with the Repeal... Well it was blanked anyway so I didnt get to make that misplay :D
I am unsure if I will add White soon or FoW in the SB. I was also thinking about some Disfigures, as an unanswered Confidant or DRS can do some work against us..
He had Trickbind in his list: one of that card's many, many uses. In a pinch, he still could have used Repeal until Gaddock Teeg came down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morden
Thx for the report Voiceofthedead! I like your list. mine is very close. Some comments to your report.
Gaddock shuts down both Repeal and EE, but otherwise an maindeck EE could have helped. What do you think about it and additionally a second Trinket Mage? I like the second TM over cards like the second Needle and the second Candelabra, because they are a bit situational. What's maybe even more important, is the additional virtual copy of SDT, which is pivotal to have.Quote:
Round 1 (against Punishing Blue) 0-2
G1:
He wins the roll and opens with Land, Mox Diamond, Dark Confidant. Not too great for me as it will be unanswered for a couple of turns and draw him a lot of cards. I get to resolve a Divining Top and start digging and ramping with an Expedition Map. He lands a Chalice@1 which hurts me REALLY bad as my hand consists of a lot of 1drops, but i can probably handle it with my Repeal and get things going. Unfortunately he also drops a Gaddock Teeg which blanks my Repeal and i am stuck on Lands, uncastable spells and a Top. On top of that (hahaha.. bad joke inc), my Top only reveals me more Lands and Brainstorms, Needles, and so on. Even fetching twice does not help and I am beaten to death by Gaddock and the Confidant.
Very unlucky. Your list is at the top end of Wasteland protection, so pretty unlucky as said.Quote:
G2:
I have to Mull to 5 and keep an okay hand which has 3 Lands, a Brainstorm and a Show and Tell. He opens up again with T1 Confidant into Wasteland, Wasteland, Wasteland + DRS + Lili. He denies me my third mana for Show and Tell and as my draws were Emrakul, Eye of Ugin, Ulamog and a Pithing Needle (which gets Abrupt Decay'ed within an eyeblink), I am forced to tap out after he resolves Life from the Loam and Slaughter Games for my Titans </3.
Concerning the SB Trinisphere. Would you consider Sphere of Resistance instead? I like it, because it is cheaper and we dont need Trini against Omnitell anymore. What I like about the Spheres in general, is that they are colorless and can be cast of Locus lands.
I mentioned this before, but it still seems to me that Post lacks a strong T1, T2 opening.
Consider
T1 wasteland-vial, T2 Thalia
T1 Mox-Scrubland-GSZ->Shaman. T2 Knight Reliq.
T1 Shaman T2 Lilly
T1 Bloodmoon
T2 Exhume
T2 counterbalance
In most cases I think we hope multiple posts make up for this in turns 3-4 while dodging wastelands and other nonsense. The Tim Harding deck featuring woodland lot may have tried to get a stronger opening.
Most of our t1/t2 are crouched in the defensive position with a needle or trickbind in hand. Is there another way out of this? Something more forward and aggressive that plays to a titan or something worse on T1, T2? L
Honestly, the way to have more aggressive Turn 1 or Turn 2 plays is simply to play a different deck. This deck trades those early turns for inevitability: if you take enough turns, you will win. The question is how many turns that is. There really is no better answer: Tim's list that you mentioned is about as aggressive as it gets without running Exploration or Mox Diamond.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponders
The other thing you have to remember is that you have to make adjustments. If where you play features a lot of really fast decks like you mentioned, your list needs to reflect that. You need to adjust based on the play or draw: leading Cloudpost on the draw against an unknown opponent is almost always a terrible idea. That first list, for example, is a D&T deck. Okay, what do you need to do? Fetch a basic or two if you don't have Crop Rotation backup and go for Show and Tell. You know it will resolve, so get your dude in play (likely Primeval Titan). Even if your Titan eats Swords to Plowshares, you have a huge advantage that has just blasted through D&T's disruption. Is Maverick a thing in your area? Pithing Needle can help. Trickbind can buy you time. Engineered Explosives wipes their board. Turn 1 Blood Moon is annoying, but that means you're almost certainly playing some kind of Stompy variant. You can get rid of that card for as little as one mana, although in fairness that's harder to do if you're on the draw. Reanimator is what it is: there is more than enough Turn 0, Turn 1, and Turn 2 graveyard hate that's been printed: run some of it. Got Elves players? Pithing Needle can stop Wirewood Symbiote or Quirion Ranger. Phyrexian Revoker can stop Heritage Druid and Birchlore Rangers. Cursed Totem bricks all of their guys until they get Reclamation Sage. Grafdigger's Cage stops Green Sun's Zenith and Natural Order, and it also works against Dredge and Reanimator. Finally, Trickbind stops Craterhoof Behemoth from killing you, as does Crop Rotation into Glacial Chasm. Counterbalance is annoying, but if you can resolve a Turn 1 Sensei's Divining Top or Expedition Map, or otherwise get these cards down before your opponent plays a Top of their own, it is very difficult for you to lose out of that spot.
Legacy is one of the most diverse formats out there. You can't cover everything, so you have to cover what you expect to play against. Your own personal play style matters, too. And sometimes your opponent nut draws or you just draw blanks and you lose. I lost a game against Miracles after taking 45 points of damage from a single Vendilion Clique. Sometimes it happens.
-----
In other news, I've been tinkering a little bit with Rock Lee's white splash. The last list he posted has 62 cards and I'm allergic to anything over 60 cards that isn't EDH, so I pared it down to 60. Trinket Mage felt a little clunky to me: like, I felt I could do better in that slot since I wasn't running Engineered Explosives, Grafdigger's Cage or Chalice of the Void. I put in my favorite pet card, Trickbind instead and it felt good, as it almost always does. The white splash has a greedier mana base than we're used to and I feel like Trickbind needs to be in there to help protect it, in addition to the 1001 other uses it has. Trinket Mage may still be "right", but I think it needs a more diverse selection of artifacts in that case. Terminus and StP feel really good, though, and they're fantastic against Young Pyromancer and Monastery Mentor garbage: I ran 3 in the board instead of 2, and those two white cards won me several games.
I've been experimenting with lotus petal, and very rarely its been a dead card (exception, late game). Its wasteland resistant, any color you need and ramp for zero mana. Its a low priority counterspell target. Just playing around with it atm, took out the candels which is never my first choice because it seems to me that candels win games. That said, win or win more, im not sure. I added a 4th snt, and 2 ancient tombs just because I'm already skewing blue and aiming to improve the early game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotmaster
While I get your point about meta-gaming, I just don't see the results born out statistically for top 8's.
This week I sold out on mono green and went with a modified list of the MTG daily winner Eli12.
// Lands
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
2 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
3 [M15] Forest (3)
1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [GTC] Thespian's Stage
1 [CS] Dark Depths
2 [R] Savannah
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
// Creatures
1 [PRE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [WL] Veteran Explorer
2 [ZEN] Oracle of Mul Daya
2 [BNG] Courser of Kruphix
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 [M14] Scavenging Ooze
// Spells
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 [M10] Pithing Needle
1 [ROE] All Is Dust
2 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
// Sideboard
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 [FNM] Krosan Grip
SB: 1 [M15] Reclamation Sage
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 [R] Circle of Protection: Red
SB: 2 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 [DKA] Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
SB: 1 [LG] Sylvan Library
SB: 1 [C14] Containment Priest
My matchups were Reliquary Retreat, Mono Blue control, Storm. All three matches went to game 3 with me closely losing game 1, and white and/or K Grip dominating games 2/3.
I was quite surprised at how effective Surgical and Crop Rotation were at holding off storm to avoid turn 1-2 kills, and then relying on the bears to hold down the fort.
Sylvan Library was insane in all of my wins, and showed up far more often than its 1-of merited. Likely deserving another slot, possibly in the main.
Rock, how did the new Bant list work out for you in the Open?
Can we get a rundown of the matchups and results, and an explanation of how well some of the experimental cards worked out for you? I'm particularly curious about Knight of the Reliquary and if it was worth running or not.
No Candelabra? :eyebrow:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
When I was on the Aggro Loam kick, Sylvan Library, was one of the best cards in the deck. It is also likely to draw a force..1G discard two cards is fine. :-) It also don't get shut off by nullrod.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
Whenever I get to play legacy again, I'm planning to head back to WG as well. All I know is UG will trump WG in the mirror match. Been there, got dominated.
Sylvan Library is an interesting card. I do feel it can be powerful once out. But isn't this the reason to run Kozi? Karakas him back and recast for card advantage? You also then have the ability to dig for him than to wait for Sylvan Library to pop into hand or get pushed up from Tops.
What about running Enlightened Tutor over Trinket Mage in the Bant list? Wouldn't this open up the door a little for things more for Sideboard cards? I recall Rock Lee running Platinum Empirion, this would be a nice way to fetch it up and then SnT it out.
We'll the advantage to running library is that it drops turn 2 possibly, then begins smoothing out your top decks. Kozilek and karakas shenanigans doesn't begin until turn 4 or so unless you're running candelabra of tawnos. In which case it can begin as early as turn 3 when you cast Kozilek. On that note if you cast Kozilek turn 3 you are likely winning or going to win shortly thereafter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skriger
If you missed it, we just had a possible leak of the Mystic Gate expedition from OGW. If it's real, it basically confirms that <> is the new symbol for colorless mana. This means that we should have no difficulty casting any spell with <> in its cost. Personally, I'm getting very excited to see what new tools this set brings us.
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Which is incredibly good news. I hate that the new Kozilek might make me play show and tell again though. Just when I was finally at terms with playing GW.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube
Hei guys
Last Weekend was the Nebraska War 3.0 in italy and i played Mono G 12 Post;)
List:
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Crop Rotation
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Expedition Map
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Vesuva
1 Karakas
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Eye of Ugin
3 Pithing Needle
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
2 All Is Dust
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Maze of Ith
6 Forest
4 Ancient Stirrings
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
2 Exploration
SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Dismember
SB: 3 Obstinate Baloth
I played the same list as always:)
Just the SB is a little bit different. I prefer the Baloth over 3 Mindbreak Traps because i heard there a lot Miracle and BUG Delver:)
Now i can just lose to Storm...
Sadly i played 2 Times against Storm and i lost always 1:2 and really really close.
Match ups:
RG Lands 1:1 ( We had along Game 2 and in the End i lost it because i just drawing big Treaths and no Korsan Grip for a long time and he get's me with Port and 20/20 Token without Stage haha, here i missplayed a candelabra into a chalice because i tried to get her on the board..Maybe he forget to trigger the chalice haha, guys don't do that even if your opponent plays bad;)
ANT 1:2 (Hardest Match Up.. he played really slow and bad.. I mean i know every of his turn because i'm also a Storm player,
he going off into a PiF and he know that i had a crop in hand lol, but still hard to win, if i don't find a Sphere)
2:1 Junk
2:0 BUG Delver
2:1 BUG Delver (I think Baloth is not needed)
2:0 Infect
(Now i'm 4:1:1 and hoping for a good Match up like Miracles but no the badest Match up is here again haha)
1:2 Storm (Very nice Match and always really close, I could play the Marit Large at end of his turn but he going off into my own Sphere with Ad Nauseam..He really find's everything he needed and going off next turn into Pif..Sadly i can't play my map because i need 1 mana more to find a bojuka bog :(
Sadly im out now..
But hoping for price's and finally i get miracles
2:1
and the last game was too late at 22:15 evening and well i was so tired now..
0:2 Deathblade( First time i lose to this Match up. I misscounted my mana to play a eye into candelabra into ulamog into win for 1..
Should play a other way, Game 2 i had no chance because of Bad Topdecks..Game 3 we just played it for fun and i easy won that..)
so 5:3:1
It's a okay result and learned a lot again. Storm is hard to beat. Like i said to my friend, i just lose to storm.
Next time i don't lose to storm. I prefer now 3 Traps over baloth.
Meta was like Storm(Storm mirror in the Finals :),Miracle and BUG)
Thanks
Dingo
How did you accomplish that? I've found Infect difficult enough to put 1 Melira in the sideboard for GSZ.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pdingo
Ancient Stirrings Mono-G generally has a better matchup vs Infect than GSZ Mono-G because of Maze of Ith.Quote:
Originally Posted by k_omega
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i played alot against infect and i know exactly how we can win
yea that's true mono g 12 Post has the best match up. maze is nice but sometimes they play easy around it and can win.
key here is naming Wasteland first. try to play chasm and you will probably win it.
g2 is more tricky but i board in dismember.. dismember is so good. Krosan Grip is bonkers against ink moth
FYI,
World magic cup coverage just explained the new Kozilek and Wastes. They are indeed real!
Basically the <> can only be paid with colorless mana: cloudpost, glimmerpost, etc. Numeric numbers can be paid with any colorless or colored source.
I guess I now need a foil Kozilek! Hopefully they will repost the preview later today on Wizards site.
New Kozi is a big deal. This gives non blue post decks a little bit more control during matchups, I love this. Evens the playing field a little. Now lets hope for other goodies from the new set.
I'm looking to build into this deck, does anyone have any suggestions as to where to start? Maybe a complete most recent deck list?
First thing is to figure out what flavor of Post you like. The most common ones at the moment are:Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanese
UG
Pros: Plays Show & Tell, Brainstorm. Has countermagic vs combo.
Cons: Weakest vs Wasteland/Blood Moon bc most vulnerable to color screw, weaker to discard
Mono-G (Ancient Stirrings)
Pros: Fastest and consistent ramping, strong on-board defense with Maze and board wipes, most resilient to Wasteland/discard
Cons: Weak to combo. Doesn't play PrimeTime. Requires 3-4 Candelabras.
Mono-G (Green Sun's Zenith)
Pros: Toolbox deck. Very adaptable to a particular meta. Least expensive to build.
Cons: Less raw power. Reliance on smaller creatures make it more vulnerable to removal. Weakest in topdeck mode.
GW
Pros: Similar to above, but bigger toolbox (Enlightened Tutor plus GSZ). Strong sideboard options (RIP, Sacred Ground). Can play Terminus.
Cons: Same as GSZ version, but more vulnerable manabase.
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I think Mono G is better against Combo(With Combo i mean just storm based Decks or fast Decks like belcher)
Yes with blue you can play counter but just counter can't win against a good storm player.
In Mono G you can play more permanent based hate and also cards like Mindbreak trap or Surgical. You are a lot faster, maybe you can get them with a Dephts Combo.
Prime time is not needed and SnT is just very greedy sometimes. Right now i don't like to play UG. maybe in the Futur;)
GW is just a bad variant of the Deck and the only reason to play is StP. Because best Removal.
Of course you know what they say about opinions and all....Quote:
Originally Posted by Pdingo
As a G/ W post player, I would completely disagree with the statement above. I don't play G/U so can't really comment on it's MUs. But it would make sense that they would have a superior MU to combo than mono green since they can play all the cards that green can and play counter magic.
I would say that G/W is better than mono green because it can play better hate, such as Canonist, leyline, Gaddock, RiP, etc.
in my opinion it also has a better aggro MU (which is why I switched from G to G/W) because it has fantastic creature removal in terminus and StP. The one upside to the mono green list is maybe that it is more resilient to wasteland, blood moon. Having said that, I won an 8 man online last night burning through Miracles with blood moon out in two games (is there ever a more satisfying win?), a mono green post player, and painter, with a blood moon out both games. I am still running 4 basics and 4 fetches, so getting green is not hard to do.
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I play green with the white splash and I will second this. We generally run like mono green but we have some of the best hate options. Plus access to an e-tutor board if we wish. Which can be key vs burn, dredge, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by drude1
I've been on Mono-G [edit: C/g] for 4 years now, and it is definitely the weakest build vs combo. That's why a whopping 12 of 15 sideboard cards in my deck are dedicated to fighting combo. Storm isn't unwinnable, but it's not a matchup I want to see.
The flip side is that Mono-G is much stronger in matchups that traditionally give other builds headaches, like BUG. Discard just doesn't do as much because we're fast, redundant, and can recover very quickly in topdeck mode.
All of the various builds have strengths and weaknesses. It's just a matter of finding what suits you and mastering it.
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Random Thought:
Now that "C" appears to be the official abbreviation for the new colorless symbol, maybe we should use "C/g Post" to distinguish Ancient Stirrings Mono-G from GSZ Mono-G? I've always seen the build as more colorless splashing green than true monogreen anyway.
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i don't get why GW should be better because of the ,,toolbox'' for combo hate.
I mean a cannonist is probably the same like a sphere against storm. Cannonist gets beaten by decay or chain of vapor and cost white. Same for RIP against reanimate.
Like i said StP is nice but we don't need it because we have a good creature match up already.
I played a lot U/G and you don't play a lot based permanent hate in it and just some counters don't win against storm.
Of course Top into fluster is nice but same for Top into mindbreak trap;)
I have been testing with and older list that I am pretty happy with in the current metagame.
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Tropical Island
1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Crop Rotation
2 Show and Tell
4 Primeval Titan
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Eye of Ugin
2 Vesuva
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Brainstorm
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
1 Karakas
3 Repeal
1 Trinket Mage
3 Pithing Needle
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Forest
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Expedition Map
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Moment's Peace
2 Flusterstorm
2 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Flusterstorm
2 Krosan Grip
2 Swan Song
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Force of Will
I have been very happy in testing with the list.
Lands, Sneak and Show, and Miracles seems like unlose-able match ups. I have also been happy with Moment's Peace and flusters in the main, since they do work in different matches but have overlap in many as well. I do want to fit another repeal in the deck, but I cant find the space right now.
All the cards in the side seem to have their place in each match, and in the case of sneak and show all 15 come in.
Some matches that I have played recently:
Lands:
Pithing needle on stage in the first game usually means game over for the lands player. Also bogging their graveyard when they have loam or try to waste-lock you. If you draw multiple needles in the fist game naming something other than stage (port or waste) may be correct depending on the board texture. Fetching basic lands early will help against wasteland.
after side you have to be wary of chalice of the void and K-grip. I like to bring in my own K-grips and keep in the explosives to deal with chalice. Letting them 2-1 themselves with repeal or Karakas is good times.
side: -1 Cavern of souls, -1 Glacial chasm, -2 Moment's Peace, +2 Force of Will +2 Krosan Grip
Miracles
This match is one of the main reasons that 12post is so good right now being up to 25% of many metagames. The new tech that they have recently is Monastery Menor. Chasm and Moment's Peace help for being killed quickly. Prioritize getting Cavern of Souls to cast your lovely green giant, and hold off fetching with your maps as long as possible so you have the ability to get your Eye of Ugin. Beware of Clique that can strip a card out of your hand if you are not careful to play around it; keeping the threat hidden under top and drawing it to play it during the main phase rather during the draw step will win you some games.
After side you have to be aware that many UW players run Blood Moon. I bring in swan songs to and K-grip to combat this. Also previously it would be common that I would side out glacial chams against UW, but this is no longer the plan due to fear of the Mentor.
Siding: -3 Pithing Needle -3 Crop Rotation +2 Swan song +2 K-Grip +2 Flusterstorm
Sneak and Show
This match is an interesting one for us. Getting down a Pithing Needle on Sneak Attack, and having a Karakas will likely mean that they can not win game 1, so this is usually what my endgame is. If you do get the needle down you can usually just let them show and tell and drop your own Titian to search for the Karakas. the other option is putting in needle off of show and tell to name what they put into play (grissle or sneak attack). The only issue with this deck now is some decks are running OMNI, which allows them to circumvent your gameplan. If they are running omni the gameplan is to cry and move on to the next game.
After side the match gets even better for the 12post player. In this version 15 cards come in. If they are on the omni version keep a hand with a etb trigger and Kgrip. otherwise land a needle or Revoker on sneak attack and attack it like game 1.
-1 Crop Rotation -2 Moments Peace, -2 Show and Tell, -1 Kozilek, -1 Glacial Chasm, -1 Bojuka Bog -1 Repeal, -1 Prime Time, -2 Glimmer Post, -1 Trinket Mage, -1 Engineered explosives, -1 Candle
Elves
If you are on the play try to repeal their fist turn play. Hold back Crop Rotation to get Chasm. if you are hiding under chasm make sure you have a plan for deathrite. Moment's peace shines in this match. The best was to win is to chain titans as fast as possible, while trying to disrupt what they are doing with repeals and explosives.
side: -3 Needle, -1 bog -1 trinket -1 caven of souls, +3 force +3 revoker
Death and Taxes
This match is base around how well you can play around their hate, and how fast you can get Titian online. Prioritize holding off crop Rotation for wastelands. naming Vial with needle may be just as effective at slowing them down as it would be naming wasteland. Repealing vial or an early mother of runes is not bad either. show and tell will win you the game if you can get it off. make sure you are not searching of eye right away as it can get waste-landed.
out of the side they may bring in Cataclyms.
side: -1 candle, -1 map, -1 bog, -1 Trinket mage, -1 caven of souls, -1 engineered explosives +2 Kgrip, +3 Revoker +1 flusterstorm
RUG Tempo
they want to try to wasteland and stifle you out of the game. Combat the mana denial by searching for basics early,l getting down needle on wasteland, or cropping in response to a wasteland. Repealing delver after flip feels dirty and should always be gone for if not just for the fun of it. Moment's peace will keep you in the late game and gives you two extra turns to get your shit together. Getting cavern down on giant helps a lot. after you get a giant search up glimmer posts until they cant combat the life swing anymore. Stifle will also allow them to stop your titian trigger so be wary if you are deciding between that and something else to save you from losing. EE helps a lot against flipped delvers as well. If you can get to turn 4 without any major messups you will probably win the game.
side: -1 map, -1 top +2 flusterstorm
same as game 1, they might bring in artifact hate, so be careful dropping early artifacts that you need to stick around.
Tendrils
You will probably lose game 1 unless you can hide a flusterstorm or a well timed croproation for bog under top.
side: -2 moment's peace, -3 pithing needle, -1 Candelabra, -2 show and tell, -2 repeal, +2 swam song, +2 fluster storm +4 force of will +1 blue elemental blast +3 phyrexian revoker.
Name lion's eye with revoker. put a top on the board and float counters. Make them go all in on something an punish them for it with hidden counters. after side the match is not too bad, you will likely be killing them with revoker.
that's all I got for now, I will add more later.