4 Card Blind

Round WL

4. Reeplcheep: Encroach , Sarcomancy, Sarcomancy , Swamp
I loved sarcomancy from my time brewing estrids invocation. Plan is take your land if you are too greedy, then make a 2/2 every turn. All the t2 combo kills and greedy decks needed sol lands so I felt encroach should get me at least 50% wins. Also I hate losing to tabernacle.


The entries:
1. Asthereal (TO): Bottomless Vault, Murderous Rider, Gatekeeper of Malakir, Gut Shot
WW. OTP you have no mana. OTD you kill a dude every 4 turns but I make a dude every turn. Lifelink and first strike should stall for a very long time but I think I should eventually go too wide for you.

2. GoblinSmashmaster: City of Traitors, Torpor Orb, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought
WL

3. jhhdk: Peat Bog, Putrid Imp, Smallpox, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
WL

5. dte: City of traitors, Hangarback walker, force of despair, unmask
Unmask is thankfully a sorcery. WL

6. PJim: City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, Ratchet Bomb, Chronomaton
Glad you can join us. WL

7. Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, Chronomaton, Chronomaton
WL

8. alphastryk: Mountain, Foundry Street Denizen, Crimson Kobolds, Crookshank Kobolds
INFINITE POWER, itty bitty living space. I easily pump out lots of blockers and eventually alpha strike. WW

9. H: Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors, Thorn of Amethyst, Lodestone Golem
2 sol lands :( DL

10. Tylert: City of traitors, Sphere of resistance, Chronomaton, Dismember
WL

11. silkster: Chancellor of the Tangle, Vine Dryad, Metamorphosis, Voidstone Gargoyle
I don’t understand if you have anything else going on, but t1 voidstone beats me. LL


12. FTW: Karakas, Cenn's Tactician, Path to Exile, Fragmentize
OTD You disrupt my engine and then stabilize vs 2 2/2s. WL

13. maxx!: Crumbling Vestige, Mishra’s Factory, Piranha Marsh, Raze
You can’t win with just 1 land so I can always at least draw by leading on encroach. But a 2/2 is going to lose to raze. DD.

Edit:totally missed that you have no way to avoid losing your only red source. WW

14. Serguei: Leyline of Sanctity, City of Traitors, Remote Farm, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Sanctity oof. OTP my 2/2 engine is always 1 dude ahead of yours so Gideon dies. OTD math is complicated but I think it’s a draw as you will never have time to emblem. WD

I think this round was a success; the meta was very different so people thought it was powerful. Just most people decided to play the anti-meta sphere decks rather than the t2 grapeshot kill.

Edit: 14 W 2 D 10 L for 44/78.

7. Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, Chronomaton, Chronomaton

1. Asthereal (TO): Bottomless Vault, Murderous Rider, Gatekeeper of Malakir, Gut Shot LL - Needs more Elspeth.
2. GoblinSmashmaster: City of Traitors, Torpor Orb, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought WL
3. jhhdk: Peat Bog, Putrid Imp, Smallpox, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth WW
4. Reeplcheep: Encroach , Sarcomancy, Sarcomancy , Swamp WL
5. dte: City of traitors, Hangarback walker, force of despair, unmask WL
6. PJim: City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, Ratchet Bomb, Chronomaton WD
8. alphastryk: Mountain, Foundry Street Denizen, Crimson Kobolds, Crookshank Kobolds WW - I did look at Kobolds, but realized that Grapeshot is really slow, and cheap ETB/creature cast triggers are not a thing.
9. H: Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors, Thorn of Amethyst, Lodestone Golem WW
10. Tylert: City of traitors, Sphere of resistance, Chronomaton, Dismember DD
11. silkster: Chancellor of the Tangle, Vine Dryad, Metamorphosis, Voidstone Gargoyle WL - This is my favorite entry.
12. FTW: Karakas, Cenn's Tactician, Path to Exile, Fragmentize WW
13. maxx!: Crumbling Vestige, Mishra’s Factory, Piranha Marsh, Raze DD - Took me a while to realize that Cloudstone Curio can trigger on lands. We end up staring because of your slow lands and my inability to grow the Chronomatons beyond 2/2.
14. Serguei: Leyline of Sanctity, City of Traitors, Remote Farm, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar WW

15w5d = 50 points

I even tried to figure out if having a free 3-drop artifact enabled anything good, and the best I could think of was welding it and Wurmcoil Engine back and forth, which is cute and too slow. So I ended up on Sphere, figuring that the good plans needed to cast spells to take advantage.

6. PJim: City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, Ratchet Bomb, Chronomaton
I wasn't overly pleased with Ratchet Bomb + Sphere, but wasn't overly enthused by any of the other artifact control pieces. Tylert's dismember was probably better, and possibly Wrath's second Chrono too.

vs

1. Asthereal (TO): Bottomless Vault, Murderous Rider, Gatekeeper of Malakir, Gut Shot / 0-6, nothing I can do against Rider + Gut Shot
2. GoblinSmashmaster: City of Traitors, Torpor Orb, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought / 3-3, Faster Orb or Sphere wins
3. jhhdk: Peat Bog, Putrid Imp, Smallpox, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth / 6-0, Sphere stops Smallpox
4. Reeplcheep: Encroach , Sarcomancy, Sarcomancy , Swamp / 3-3, Faster Encroach or Sphere wins.
5. dte: City of traitors, Hangarback walker, force of despair, unmask / 1-4, Sphere draws, Walker wins.
7. Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, Chronomaton, Chronomaton / 1-4, Sphere wins for you, but on the play I drop turn 1 Ratchet Bomb, which trades with one of your Chronos.
8. alphastryk: Mountain, Foundry Street Denizen, Crimson Kobolds, Crookshank Kobolds / 6-0, Sphere stops Kobolds from being a problem.
9. H: Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors, Thorn of Amethyst, Lodestone Golem / 6-0, Sphere prevents Golem
10. Tylert: City of traitors, Sphere of resistance, Chronomaton, Dismember / 1-4, As vs Wrath, I need turn 1 Ratchet Bomb to draw.
11. silkster: Chancellor of the Tangle, Vine Dryad, Metamorphosis, Voidstone Gargoyle / 3-3, Sphere wins, Gargoyle naming Bomb races Chrono.
12. FTW: Karakas, Cenn's Tactician, Path to Exile, Fragmentize / 3-3, Sphere wins OTP, OTD I wish I played Dismember.
13. maxx!: Crumbling Vestige, Mishra’s Factory, Piranha Marsh, Raze / 0-6, Not much I can do that's relevant.
14. Serguei: Leyline of Sanctity, City of Traitors, Remote Farm, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar / 6-0, Sphere wins.

Which I think makes 39 points for a 3.0 score

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tylert

I think nearly everyone knew that playing combo was bad here. Did anyone find a T1 combo? I don't think there was any. Also, as it is a curio token, It's going to be destroyed / exiled etc... so why play bad cards that will get wrecked by 1 removal???
So half of the meta playing combo was perhaps a bit too much :)

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Your deck, while playing a card that's good against combo, would still only play 3-3 against one of the Kobold combo options.
Honestly, I think I should have just played City, Kobold, Kobold, Genesis Chamber.
I didn't want to though, as dte was the one suggesting the card to me in the discussion we had over potentially banning something else.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie

7. Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, Chronomaton, Chronomaton

6. PJim: City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, Ratchet Bomb, Chronomaton WW

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Disagree. If you lead on double chrono, you lose to ratchet bomb. If you lead on sphere, you draw to second sphere. And 1 chrono just trades with ratchet bomb. It should be DD.

Edit: You can’t sphere sphere oof. DL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asthereal

Your deck, while playing a card that's good against combo, would still only play 3-3 against one of the Kobold combo options.
Honestly, I think I should have just played City, Kobold, Kobold, Genesis Chamber.
I didn't want to though, as dte was the one suggesting the card to me in the discussion we had over potentially banning something else.

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dismember kills a kobold in response to the first trigger. so it's 6-0 for my deck :)
There were a lot of options like ninth bridge patrol / grapeshot / denizen / etc... they were nearly all based on boucing two creatures.

I like reeplecheep deck. It uses the token without commiting too much to it. too bad it looses to sphere effects.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tylert

dismember kills a kobold in response to the first trigger. so it's 6-0 for my deck :)
There were a lot of options like ninth bridge patrol / grapeshot / denizen / etc... they were nearly all based on boucing two creatures.

I like reeplecheep deck. It uses the token without commiting too much to it. too bad it looses to sphere effects.

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If I didn’t respect combo I could have easily beaten the sphere decks with another land. If t2 combo is paper it’s just everyone decided to play scissors rather than rock. I expected a lot more durdle decks to beat the anti-meta decks like as there’ll. That happened most other rounds.

12. FTW: Karakas, Cenn's Tactician, Path to Exile, Fragmentize

Lol, my other deck was City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, Chronomaton, Chronomaton.
I expected people to play artifact hate after Asthereal confirmed the Curio was a token so I switched to a 0-artifact deck hoping not to see too much Smallpox or Spheres... Oops

1. Asthereal (TO): I can kill your Curio and exile Rider, but 2/2 Gatekeeper kills me. LL 0-6
2. GoblinSmashmaster: Fragmentize kills your Orb. WW 6-0
3. jhhdk: If I sandbag Karakas+Path for PImp, you can just Smallpox away my hand. LL 0-6
4. Reeplcheep: OTP Fragmentize spoils your fun, Path exiles one of 2 zombies, and Cenn's Tactician easily beats the other. OTD you punish me for not just playing Plains. WL 3-3
5. dte: If you Unmask Path, I can Fragmentize 1/1 Hangarback and have Cenn race the 1 Thopter. So you have to let me Path Hangarback so you can Force Cenn. DD 2-2
6. PJim: OTP I play Cenn. If you play Sphere, you can't play Ratchet and my Cenn races your T2 Chrono. If you play Ratchet, I Fragmentize it before it kills Cenn. If you play Chrono before Sphere, I Path it. OTD Sphere beats me. WL 3-3
7. Wrath of Pie: OTP I play Cenn. You play Sphere. I'm 2/2. You play 1 Chrono, which would get raced, so you play the 2nd next turn. Eventually you can attack with 2 20/20s vs a 22/22. I can block both and kill one, but the other lives and kills me next turn. OTD Sphere wins. LL 0-6
8. alphastryk: OTP I Fragmentize your Curio, then Cenn beats a 1/1. OTD you can play everything on turn 1 but can't attack yet. I just Path the Denizen and let you play infinite 0/1s. WW 6-0
9. H: OTP and OTD I can play Tactician through Thorn. OTP Tactician can block as a 6/6 before I die to Golem, then eventually attack for 20. OTD I don't hit 6/6 fast enough so I just trade to draw. WD 4-1
10. Tylert: OTP I can play Cenn, but Dismember kills it. OTD I can't play anything. LL 0-6
11. silkster: Nice deck. I was ready to beat 2/2 Meddling Mage but not a 3/3 flyer. Voidstone Gargoyle has to name Path. Cenn's a turn too slow OTP, even slower OTD. LL 0-6
13. maxx!: Raze only lets me do 1 thing. I can Fragmentize your Curio or play 1/1 Cenn, Factory will kill me. LL 0-6
14. Serguei: Karakas and Path mean you can't +1 to grow, so you're just making tokens. I can attack Gideon every turn to force blocks, because if Gideon dies Cenn easily beats a few Knights. Gideon's fast enough that even if I Path the first token to get an attack in, I can't kill Gideon before you stabilize by chumping with a Knight every turn. Path ruins trying to kill Cenn by double blocking or using the Emblem to make bigger tokens. DD 2-2

26 points (7 wins, 5 draws)

The Curio T2 combo kill I saw was:
Sandstone Needle, 2 Kobolds, Grapeshot/Impact Tremors

But I thought those would be hated out too easily. I expected the meta to be defined by hate like Force of Vigor/Nature's Claim effects, Torpor Orb, T1 Meddling Mage, and enchantment/artifact-based prison (Leyline, Energy Field).

Spheres seemed strong against both the Curio decks and the anti-Curio decks, but somehow I talked myself into playing something that loses to Sphere instead of playing Sphere.
Edit: would have been 50 points. Well done Wrath!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

Disagree. If you lead on double chrono, you lose to ratchet bomb. If you lead on sphere, you draw to second sphere. And 1 chrono just trades with ratchet bomb. It should be DD.

Edit: You can’t sphere sphere oof. DL

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He leads on Sphere. That shuts off 2/3 cards in PJim's deck. Then 2 Chronos beat 1 Chrono. The 2 Chronos come out slowly, but then he can grow both each turn while double blocking.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tylert

dismember kills a kobold in response to the first trigger. so it's 6-0 for my deck :)
There were a lot of options like ninth bridge patrol / grapeshot / denizen / etc... they were nearly all based on boucing two creatures.

I like reeplecheep deck. It uses the token without commiting too much to it. too bad it looses to sphere effects.

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Dismember isn't free though. And Genesis Chamber combos on turn one. So OTD you have a Dismember against a googolplex Myr tokens. :tongue:

This is the whole reason why dte feared Force of despair would completely dominate this round: good free removal that can pitch to Unmask if needed.
But I argued that there was also Pyrokinesis and Gut Shot as free removals, so if you wanted to play one, you could do so regardless of banning FoD.
And in the end FoD saw almost no play, neither did combo, and everybody just did whatever.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asthereal

This is the whole reason why dte feared Force of despair would completely dominate this round: good free removal that can pitch to Unmask if needed.
But I argued that there was also Pyrokinesis and Gut Shot as free removals, so if you wanted to play one, you could do so regardless of banning FoD.
And in the end FoD saw almost no play, neither did combo, and everybody just did whatever.

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Force of Vigor on Curio, Force of Negation on the wincon, and Pyrokinesis on the Kobolds were the other T0 hate cards I saw so Force of Despair didn't seem unbalanced to me either. I thought Vigor would see more play because it also hates out generically oppressive stuff like Energy Field, Blood Moon, Ensnaring Bridge, Sphere of Resistance, Isochron Scepter, etc. while Despair is underwhelming vs fair decks or noncreature engines.


You can mitigate the pitch costs of the other ones too:
Force of Vigor+Chancellor of the Tangle

Force of Negation+Misthollow Griffin

Pyrokinesis+Chancellor of the Forge

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FTW

Force of Vigor on Curio, Force of Negation on the wincon, and Pyrokinesis on the Kobolds were the other T0 hate cards I saw so Force of Despair didn't seem unbalanced to me either. I thought Vigor would see more play because it also hates out generically oppressive stuff like Energy Field, Blood Moon, Ensnaring Bridge, Sphere of Resistance, Isochron Scepter, etc. while Despair is underwhelming vs fair decks or noncreature engines.


You can mitigate the pitch costs of the other ones too:
Force of Vigor+Chancellor of the Tangle

Force of Negation+Misthollow Griffin

Pyrokinesis+Chancellor of the Forge

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Sometimes I wonder how much better our little 4CB competition would be if you ran it. :smile:

PhyrexianSmashmaster Results for Round "noone curious about Curio"

1. Asthereal (TO): Bottomless Vault, Murderous Rider, Gatekeeper of Malakir, Gut Shot
Dreadnought smash! 6-0

2. GoblinSmashmaster: City of Traitors, Torpor Orb, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought
That's me, playing bigger Goblins

3. jhhdk: Peat Bog, Putrid Imp, Smallpox, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
Dreadnought smash! 6-0

4. Reeplcheep: Encroach , Sarcomancy, Sarcomancy , Swamp
Encroached 3-3

5. dte: City of traitors, Hangarback walker, force of despair, unmask
Unmasked 3-3

6. PJim: City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, Ratchet Bomb, Chronomaton
Sphere 3-3

7. Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, Chronomaton, Chronomaton
Sphere 3-3

8. alphastryk: Mountain, Foundry Street Denizen, Crimson Kobolds, Crookshank Kobolds
Dreadnought smash! 6-0

9. H: Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors, Thorn of Amethyst, Lodestone Golem
Thorn 3-3

10. Tylert: City of traitors, Sphere of resistance, Chronomaton, Dismember
Sphere 3-3

11. silkster: Chancellor of the Tangle, Vine Dryad, Metamorphosis, Voidstone Gargoyle
Void :( 0-6

12. FTW: Karakas, Cenn's Tactician, Path to Exile, Fragmentize
Fragmented :( 0-6

13. maxx!: Crumbling Vestige, Mishra’s Factory, Piranha Marsh, Raze
LD :( 0-6

14. Serguei: Leyline of Sanctity, City of Traitors, Remote Farm, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Dreadnought smash! 6-0

Total: 42 points!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asthereal

Sometimes I wonder how much better our little 4CB competition would be if you ran it. :smile:

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Not a chance. You've done a top notch job of consistently organizing every week and playing with unquestionable integrity with everyone's decks PMed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GoblinSmashmaster

2. GoblinSmashmaster: City of Traitors, Torpor Orb, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought
That's me, playing bigger Goblins

3. jhhdk: Peat Bog, Putrid Imp, Smallpox, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
Dreadnought smash! 6-0

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You both agree but I don't see how you win OTD

OTP you make 2 Dreadnoughts before he can Smallpox
OTD Smallpox right after Orb stops you from playing anything. If you do nothing, could you race the 2nd Pox though?

T1 Bog / pass
T2 Smallpox, discarding Kozi and Dreadnought. Library = Kozilek, Smallpox, Peat Bog. / City + Orb
T3 draw Kozi / Dreadnought
T4 draw Smallpox / Attack for 12
T5 draw Peat Bog, tapped Bog / Attack for 12

You can race if jhhdk tries to Smallpox proactively. But jhhdk can do nothing and hold Smallpox if you try to cast Orb, staring.
WD 4-1

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asthereal

Dismember isn't free though. And Genesis Chamber combos on turn one. So OTD you have a Dismember against a googolplex Myr tokens. :tongue:

This is the whole reason why dte feared Force of despair would completely dominate this round: good free removal that can pitch to Unmask if needed.
But I argued that there was also Pyrokinesis and Gut Shot as free removals, so if you wanted to play one, you could do so regardless of banning FoD.
And in the end FoD saw almost no play, neither did combo, and everybody just did whatever.

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oh yes. SO that's the turn 1 combo we were looking for :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tylert

oh yes. SO that the turn 1 combo we were looking for :)

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Yep! Turns out the goto combo deck is more like:

City of Traitors, Genesis Chamber, Crimson Kobolds, Crookshank Kobolds.

Infinite 1/1s is way better than my Infinity/1 creature with no evasion!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tylert

1. Asthereal: Stockland + removal for my chronomaton. 0-6 --> 0
2. Goblin smashmaster: OTP You can't cast anything. OTD You cast torpor orb first and you are able to cast your dreadnought. 3-3 --> 3
3. jhhdk: SPhere of resistance prevents smallpox. dismember kills Imp. 6-0 --> 9
4. Reeplcheep: OTP, sphere wins. OTD, you can encroach city of traitors. 3-3 --> 12
5. dte: OTP, it's a draw because I have to play sphere to kill walker. OTD you play walker first and I can't kill it and the token. 1-4 --> 13
6. PJim: OTP, I have sphere and wins. OTD, You can play bomb first for the draw. 4-1 --> 17
7. Wrath of Pie: Draw. 2-2 --> 19
8. Alphastryk: You really tried to play the rules of this round?? :) OTP, sphere wins it. OTD you can play your dudes then I kill denizen and wins. 6-0 --> 25
9. H: OTP, I cast sphere and wins. OTD, you can't kill me with lodestone before my chronomaton is 5/5. 6-0 --> 31
10. Me.
11. silkster: OTP, I cast sphere and wins with chronomaton as soon as it is a 3/3. OTD, You have a 3/3 flying T1 naming dismember. Chronomaton is a bit too slow to outgrow and race the gargoyle. 3-3 --> 34
12. FTW: OTP, Sphere wins. OTD, You can play tactician, but I can dismember it and play sphere to ensure victory as fragmentize is a sorcery. 6-0 --> 40
13. Maxx!: I play chronomaton, you kill my land and we trade dudes. 2-2 --> 42.
Total 42. not bad.

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You have to face your friend Serguei too :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FTW

You have to face your friend Serguei too :)

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6 free points. how did I miss that :)

maxx!: Crumbling Vestige, Mishra’s Factory, Piranha Marsh, Raze

1. Asthereal (TO): Bottomless Vault, Murderous Rider, Gatekeeper of Malakir, Gut Shot
Raze gets your land, then my lands get you. 6-0

2. GoblinSmashmaster: City of Traitors, Torpor Orb, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought
You have to spend a turn playing Torpor Orb before you can do anything else, and that gives me a turn to Raze. 6-0

3. jhhdk: Peat Bog, Putrid Imp, Smallpox, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
Raze beats ETB tapped lands. 6-0

4. Reeplcheep: Encroach , Sarcomancy, Sarcomancy , Swamp
This is interesting. You can Encroach first and take my Vestige, and then I can't stop you from making a Zombie every turn. 0-6

5. dte: City of traitors, Hangarback walker, force of despair, unmask
Unmask gets Raze, but then Walker is kinda slow. Math below. Not nearly slow enough for me to win. 0-6

6. PJim: City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, Ratchet Bomb, Chronomaton
Welcome! Ratchet Bomb is a blank against me, and I have more than enough lands to play Raze through Sphere. You can't get Chronomaton big enough to beat Factory before I Raze you. 6-0

7. Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, Chronomaton, Chronomaton
Same as PJim, except you can play 2 Chronomatons before Raze if you want. I think that keeps me from attacking, and trying to loop Piranha Marsh leaves me open to attacks. 2-2

8. alphastryk: Mountain, Foundry Street Denizen, Crimson Kobolds, Crookshank Kobolds
Yeesh. Raze is useless here. OTP I can get Factory on the table with another land before you kill me, and then we stare because my lands are bad. I can't loop Marsh without leaving myself open to an attack. OTD I just die. 1-4

9. H: Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors, Thorn of Amethyst, Lodestone Golem
OTP is easy because I can lead with Piranha Marsh, then have mana to Raze your first land. OTD you can play Thorn turn 1, then I can't Raze you fast enough. I can't attack into your Golem, but I can block and trade which leads to a win for me, so we stare. 4-1

10. Tylert: City of traitors, Sphere of resistance, Chronomaton, Dismember
Any time you show your land, it gets Razed. You end up with a 1/1 Chronomaton, and Factory beats that. 6-0

11. silkster: Chancellor of the Tangle, Vine Dryad, Metamorphosis, Voidstone Gargoyle
Well, you have no lands, so Raze is dead. Your Gargoyle flies so I can't threaten to block, and at best I hit you for 2 or 3 damage every turn. You get the first attack too, so there's no way I can race. 0-6

12. FTW: Karakas, Cenn's Tactician, Path to Exile, Fragmentize
You get a 1/1 Tactician and then get Razed. 6-0

13. maxx!: Crumbling Vestige, Mishra’s Factory, Piranha Marsh, Raze
This is me :]

14. Serguei: Leyline of Sanctity, City of Traitors, Remote Farm, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Leyline forces me to ping myself with Piranha Marsh (haha), but I can always Raze Remote Farm before it untaps and then win with Factory. 6-0

6+6+6+0+0+6+2+1+4+6+0+6+6 = 49

I missed Genesis Chamber. I found the Grapeshot and Impact Tremors decks with Kobolds and Burning Tree Emissary, but they felt too fragile. (Also Carnival of Souls and 2x Cauldron Familiar, but that's a turn slower). Basically all of the good combo decks I could find leaned heavily on ETB tapped lands, so I decided Raze was good. I like playing Raze with extra lands, and Curio works with lands too, so going heavy lands to get around Sphere, Tabernacle, Force of Despair, etc felt right. Raze was stellar, and Factory was good too, but my other lands tried to be too cute. I'm pretty sure just swapping Vestige for Mountain gets me a draw vs Reep instead of a loss. I think my general strategy was sound, but I could've done a better job with the land selection.

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vs dte (OTP)
m: Factory
d: Unmask Raze, Walker
m: Vestige, activate Factory, attack (d:18)
d: Pass
m: Piranha Marsh, bounce Vestige. EOT add a counter (d:17, HW=3/3)
d: You can attack here and I can't block, but you lose that race, so pass
m: Vestige, bounce Marsh. EOT add a counter (HW=3/3)
If you start attacking now, I die in 7 turns. It will take me 7 turns to kill you from here too, but you start the race so you win. If I try to hold back to block, I still lose to Thopters, and you can just slowly grow your Walker if I'm not attacking. I lose

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maxx!

...
8. alphastryk: Mountain, Foundry Street Denizen, Crimson Kobolds, Crookshank Kobolds
Yeesh. Raze is useless here. OTP I can get Factory on the table with another land before you kill me, and then we stare because my lands are bad. I can't loop Marsh without leaving myself open to an attack. OTD I just die. 1-4
...

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I missed that you can't loop Marsh and leave Factory up as a blocker at the same time. Will update my results.

I totally missed the cutting you off red line max. OTD you can play it out but I can always encroach it before you have the chance to play it again. Will update my scores.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alphastryk

I missed that you can't loop Marsh and leave Factory up as a blocker at the same time. Will update my results.

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Yeah, my lands are terrible. For some insane reason last night I thought Crumbling Vestige was tech because it makes mana the turn I play it (to activate Factory), and then I can activate Factory again by tapping it on the next turn, then play Marsh. Turns out I can do that with any land that comes into play untapped, like Mountain, and then actually be able to block sometimes and not get owned by Encroach.

Sunscorched Desert (strictly better than Piranha Marsh!) and Mountain would've been so much better. I need to stop sending in decks around midnight my time. I end up making silly mistakes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maxx!

Yeah, my lands are terrible. For some insane reason last night I thought Crumbling Vestige was tech because it makes mana the turn I play it (to activate Factory), and then I can activate Factory again by tapping it on the next turn, then play Marsh. Turns out I can do that with any land that comes into play untapped, like Mountain, and then actually be able to block sometimes and not get owned by Encroach.

Sunscorched Desert (strictly better than Piranha Marsh!) and Mountain would've been so much better. I need to stop sending in decks around midnight my time. I end up making silly mistakes.

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Ouch! yeah Mountain would do the job.

I'm just gonna pretend that Piranha Marsh was intentional tech against Energy Field, and that Crumbling Vestige was so I could Raze on turn 1 against Root Maze.

5. dte: City of traitors, Hangarback walker, force of despair, unmask

That's me, sporting what I thought was broken.


1. Asthereal (TO): Bottomless Vault, Murderous Rider, Gatekeeper of Malakir, Gut Shot
6-0. Unmask gut shot, Walker is 4/4 OTD before you can kill it with Malakir. The tokens race you in 6 turns accounting for the lifelink. OTP, walker is 5/5.
6

2. GoblinSmashmaster: City of Traitors, Torpor Orb, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought
3-3. Unmask or orb.
9

3. jhhdk: Peat Bog, Putrid Imp, Smallpox, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
6-0. Disagreement here. OTP I play T1 unmak, take pox, walker. you play bog. W2/2. Imp, discard kozilek, shufle kozilek on top. W3/3. draw kozilek. W4/4. draw and play small pox, we are both at 19, your library is your 4 cards with bog on the bottom, I have 4 tokens. I attack (15), draw 1, 11, draw second, 7, draw third card, 3, draw and play tapped bog, die. OTD it's the same but I do have only three copters: 16, draw1, 13 draw 2, 10, draw 3, 7, draw and play Bog, 4. If you play pox now, you die (3 vs 2 tokens). So you play imp. I attack, you discard Kozilek (shuffle), chump, 2 tokens get through: you're on 2 with imp in the grave, kozi in the lib. In your turn you can small pox, leaving me with only 1 token, but you go to 1, and the thopter kills you.
15

4. Reeplcheep: Encroach , Sarcomancy, Sarcomancy , Swamp
3-3. Unmask vs Encroach.
18

6. PJim: City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, Ratchet Bomb, Chronomaton
4-1. Sphere draws, walker wins.
22

7. Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, Chronomaton, Chronomaton
3-3. Sphere + 2 chrono win OTP.
25

8. alphastryk: Mountain, Foundry Street Denizen, Crimson Kobolds, Crookshank Kobolds
6-0. Force of despair or Unmask.
31

9. H: Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors, Thorn of Amethyst, Lodestone Golem
6-0. I can pay my black cards through double tax, and walker doesn't care :)
37

10. Tylert: City of traitors, Sphere of resistance, Chronomaton, Dismember
4-1. Sphere draws, walker wins.
41

11. silkster: Chancellor of the Tangle, Vine Dryad, Metamorphosis, Voidstone Gargoyle
3-3. OTP unmask dryad, OTD you have to name force. I play walker. Then it's a race, you attack first and win it.
44

12. FTW: Karakas, Cenn's Tactician, Path to Exile, Fragmentize
2-2. Single threath + answers decks draw.
46

13. maxx!: Crumbling Vestige, Mishra’s Factory, Piranha Marsh, Raze
6-0. Unmask Raze, win.
52

14. Serguei: Leyline of Sanctity, City of Traitors, Remote Farm, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
0-6. Gideon beats me. I'm curious, were you playing specifically against unmask, having thought like me that unmask force was the best deck? As Gideon does not work vs gutshot.deck, and it is still LL?
52


For me Force/Unmask was way above the other T0 answers. I was expecting a bit more T1 decks.
My deck using the curio as token was SSG, kuldotha's rebirth, cradle, trini. My bouncing curio deck was reality acid and roost of drakes (bouncing city/sapprazan skerry). The later would have done 48, not that bad, but I was expecting many players to play the same as me, force/unmask, so I didn't play it. Turns out I was the only one on it, so Asthereal was right not to be worried about it. I disliked the fact that Force had even the built-in ability to not care about curio as a way to bet removal with flash creatures (which no one did).

Asthereal's scores for round y u no play Kobold?

1. Asthereal (TO): Bottomless Vault, Murderous Rider, Gatekeeper of Malakir, Gut Shot
That's me, trying to beat Kobolds, as well as slower anti-meta decks.
2. GoblinSmashmaster: City of Traitors, Torpor Orb, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought
I die before I get to do a thing. 0-6
3. jhhdk: Peat Bog, Putrid Imp, Smallpox, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
Kozi shuffles everything back. 0-6
4. Reeplcheep: Encroach , Sarcomancy, Sarcomancy , Swamp
Playing and bouncing Sarcos. Nice. 0-6
5. dte: City of traitors, Hangarback walker, force of despair, unmask
You Unmask Gut Shot. After that the Walker becomes quite big before I kill it and so will make many flyers. 0-6
6. PJim: City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, Ratchet Bomb, Chronomaton
I have two guys that can kill Chrono, and only one you can answer. 6-0
7. Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, Chronomaton, Chronomaton
My guys kill your guys. 6-0
8. alphastryk: Mountain, Foundry Street Denizen, Crimson Kobolds, Crookshank Kobolds
Gut Shot kills the Kobold in response to you trying to bounce it with Curio. 6-0
9. H: Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors, Thorn of Amethyst, Lodestone Golem
OTP I can kill your Golem just before it kills me. OTD I'm too slow because my removal boys cost a mana more. 3-3
10. Tylert: City of traitors, Sphere of resistance, Chronomaton, Dismember
One of my removal boys kills Chrono. You have removal for just one of my guys. 6-0
11. silkster: Chancellor of the Tangle, Vine Dryad, Metamorphosis, Voidstone Gargoyle
Reading all the cards... so you make Gargoyle and name either Gatekeeper or my Murder Knight. I use the other to kill Gargoyle and win? 6-0
12. FTW: Karakas, Cenn's Tactician, Path to Exile, Fragmentize
My removal guys are really good. 6-0
13. maxx!: Crumbling Vestige, Mishra’s Factory, Piranha Marsh, Raze
LOL here my removal guys are really bad because Raze kills my land before I get anywhere. 0-6
14. Serguei: Leyline of Sanctity, City of Traitors, Remote Farm, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
I love how my Murder Knight can kill Gideon, but it;s super irrelevant because your 2/2s will overwhelm me anyway. 0-6

Total: 39 points

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dte

5. dte: City of traitors, Hangarback walker, force of despair, unmask

14. Serguei: Leyline of Sanctity, City of Traitors, Remote Farm, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
0-6. Gideon beats me. I'm curious, were you playing specifically against unmask, having thought like me that unmask force was the best deck? As Gideon does not work vs gutshot.deck, and it is still LL?

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I am just here to beat #1 and # 2 :)

No I wanted to play force of vigor at the beginning to be sure to remove curiosity. But I did not find a suitable proposition for the 2 last cards.
I hoped than more would have played with the rules and try to do some crazies combo like I thouht in first place.

So when you think about curiosity you think infinite loop and storm. So storm card has to target to kill. I did not considered that Empty would have been played. SO Leyline is just what I need to been proteccted from grapeshot.

Because the fisrt deck I thoght was Burning tree * 2 + Grapeshot

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dte

...
My deck using the curio as token was SSG, kuldotha's rebirth, cradle, trini. My bouncing curio deck was reality acid and roost of drakes (bouncing city/sapprazan skerry)...

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I don't know that I would ever have found either of those decks, really creative

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asthereal

11. silkster: Chancellor of the Tangle, Vine Dryad, Metamorphosis, Voidstone Gargoyle
Reading all the cards... so you make Gargoyle and name either Gatekeeper or my Murder Knight. I use the other to kill Gargoyle and win? 6-0

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Even funnier, he lets you cast both of your removal dudes (has to, otherwise Gargoyle dies), and you win thanks to Gut Shot (yes, really) because he can't block and lose Gargoyle to damage, so you easily outrace it.

You also win the race with just Murderous Rider thanks to lifelink and Gut Shot making blocking bad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Serguei

So when you think about curiosity you think infinite loop and storm. So storm card has to target to kill. I did not considered that Empty would have been played. SO Leyline is just what I need to been proteccted from grapeshot.

Because the fisrt deck I thoght was Burning tree * 2 + Grapeshot

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Maybe relevant for future rounds, I don't think that Leyline works as you thought, and burning tree / grapeshot would still beat your deck 6-0.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dte

Maybe relevant for future rounds, I don't think that Leyline works as you thought, and burning tree / grapeshot would still beat your deck 6-0.

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grapeshot = 1 damage to any target
Leyline = you can't be the target of spells or abilities your opponents control

Draw perhaps, but 6-0? can you explain?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dte

Maybe relevant for future rounds, I don't think that Leyline works as you thought, and burning tree / grapeshot would still beat your deck 6-0.

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How does Grapeshot target him with Leyline of Sanctity stopping targetting? It does let Grapeshot kill Gideon and any number of 2/2s though, so his wincon is not ideal.

Kobolds + Impact Tremors gets around that, though it loses hard to Force of Negation while Grapeshot dodges it.

Edit: Something like City of Traitors, Lotus Petal, Energy Field, Scalding Tongs would have been really strong against T2 combo (including T1 infinite tokens) and vs this meta. Which is why I thought Disenchants would be higher value this round.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tylert

grapeshot = 1 damage to any target
Leyline = you can't be the target of spells or abilities your opponents control

Draw perhaps, but 6-0? can you explain?

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T2 cast emissary, keep the second one in hand. For ten turns, beat face with it. If you see a Gideon, cast second emissary, bounce the first, rinse and repeat, grapeshot Gideon and his squires. Then beat face with 2 emissaries.

Edit1, Since the rule change, grapeshot can target Gideon and Leyline does not protect it anymore, hence my first message ;)

Edit2, FTW was faster than my Edit1.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dte

T2 cast emissary, keep the second one in hand. For ten turns, beat face with it. If you see a Gideon, cast second emissary, bounce the first, rinse and repeat, grapeshot Gideon and his squires. Then beat face with 2 emissaries.

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Granted, the rules changed on this recently. Before you had to target players with burn and then choose to redirect the damage to a planeswalker. Now you can burn a walker directly. Leyline would have prevented it under the old rules.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dte

Maybe relevant for future rounds, I don't think that Leyline works as you thought, and burning tree / grapeshot would still beat your deck 6-0.

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Another proof I clearly have not enough time to think about my deck 🙃

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dte

Edit1, Since the rule change, grapeshot can target Gideon and Leyline does not protect it anymore, hence my first message ;)

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I am sad about this particular rule change, even though it was absolutely necessary.

I once made the awesomest play ever:
My opponent had an Ajani Vengeant on 4 loyalty. I cast Vexing Devil. He took the damage. I redirected the damage to his Ajani. :laugh:
Still lost that game though, but the look on his face was priceless.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jhhdk

3. jhhdk: Peat Bog, Putrid Imp, Smallpox, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth <--- ME

...

14. Serguei: Leyline of Sanctity, City of Traitors, Remote Farm, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar seems like LL, but not entirely sure, maybe imp can actually threaten to kill gideon and force a draw.

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OTD, you lose to T2 Gideon.
OTP, you win: if Serguei plays farm T1, smallpox T2 wins. If Serguei didn't, Imp T2 wins it.
3-3

Me: silkster: Chancellor of the Tangle, Vine Dryad, Metamorphosis, Voidstone Gargoyle

1. Asthereal (TO): Bottomless Vault, Murderous Rider, Gatekeeper of Malakir, Gut Shot
Two removal spells! Ouch.
LL

2. GoblinSmashmaster: City of Traitors, Torpor Orb, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought
Voidstone has no triggered ability. Cool deck. I missed Dreadnaughts in the Berserker round too.
WW

3. jhhdk: Peat Bog, Putrid Imp, Smallpox, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
WW. Only after starting to read other writeups did I realize how cool it is that you can use the Imp to rebuy the Smallpox if it gets Duressed or Unmasked. Cool.

4. Reeplcheep: Encroach , Sarcomancy, Sarcomancy , Swamp
Just after I submitted my deck, I remembered Encroach and almost submitted an Encroach deck, but I couldn't decide what else to play with it.
WW

5. dte: City of traitors, Hangarback walker, force of despair, unmask
On the play, I win with 1 turn to spare. On the draw, Unmask gets me.
WL

6. PJim: City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, Ratchet Bomb, Chronomaton
On the play, I stop Bomb and I'm fast enough. On the draw, I get locked out.
WL

7. Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, Chronomaton, Chronomaton
WL lockout mirror

8. alphastryk: Mountain, Foundry Street Denizen, Crimson Kobolds, Crookshank Kobolds
I can lock out one of the kobolds and win the race.
WW

9. H: Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors, Thorn of Amethyst, Lodestone Golem
WL lockout mirror

10. Tylert: City of traitors, Sphere of resistance, Chronomaton, Dismember
WL lockout mirror

12. FTW: Karakas, Cenn's Tactician, Path to Exile, Fragmentize
My 8 turn clock races your 9 turn clock even on the draw. Main phase Dryad gives you no priority to exile it.
WW

13. maxx!: Crumbling Vestige, Mishra’s Factory, Piranha Marsh, Raze
WW

14. Serguei: Leyline of Sanctity, City of Traitors, Remote Farm, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
WW

19W, 7L by my count. Much better than I was expecting. It turned out that my 8 turn clock was actually very important against the 9 turn clock of vertical growth creatures.

I found Foundry Street Denizen, but it didn't excite me. I did not find BTE with Grapeshot, only Kobolds with Impact Tremors.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tylert

Props to GOblinsmashmaster for a good find that wrecks the combo plan and also puts a 12/12 into play and to Silkster for finding a nice way to put a 5 drop into play T1 (There was no better 5 drops?)

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Thanks. I've been trying to play this deck since Round 1 of Pauper, but someone had to go and get Skyshroud Cutter banned before this deck was good enough. I looked for a while, and I didn't see anything better than this. It's a little restricted by the fact that you only get one colour of mana. My default plan was to look for something that discards since I don't mind it being symmetric, but there really wasn't much.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

11. silkster: Chancellor of the Tangle, Vine Dryad, Metamorphosis, Voidstone Gargoyle
I don’t understand if you have anything else going on, but t1 voidstone beats me.

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Nope. It's a Rube Goldberg machine just to pump out a fancy Phantom Monster and hope it gets there. Well, it also beats decks like Swamp, Dark Ritual, Dark Deal, Basking Rootwalla, though I'm not sure any of those exist anymore.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

I think this round was a success; the meta was very different so people thought it was powerful. Just most people decided to play the anti-meta sphere decks rather than the t2 grapeshot kill.

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I think the diverse meta this round owes a lot to the many bans we recently made. The other rounds since then were complete overhauls of the rules.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asthereal

Sometimes I wonder how much better our little 4CB competition would be if you ran it. :smile:

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My jaw dropped at how aggressive this was until I realized who said it. FTW is definitely on top of knowing relevant cards, though I'm not sure how important that actually is to running it. The bannathon rounds ran themselves, and the general rock-paper-scissors tendency* means that even if one thing is broken in theory, it doesn't always work that way.

*Speaking of which, I thought I had the best possible deck for next round, but then I found one that beat it and one that beat that and now I'm at rock-paper-scissors of what feels like 3 really broken decks, but they all clearly have their vulnerabilities and I have no idea what anyone else wants to play, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maxx!

I'm just gonna pretend that Piranha Marsh was intentional tech against Energy Field, and that Crumbling Vestige was so I could Raze on turn 1 against Root Maze.

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I definitely thought that Energy Field would be a player this round. If I had been planning to play approximately this deck, I definitely would have played the Piranha Marsh.

I've been watching this thread off and on for what feels like years. I don't have time to play it, but it truly is a sick concept - thanks for keeping it going. I have fun just watching!

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dte

3. jhhdk: Peat Bog, Putrid Imp, Smallpox, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
6-0. Disagreement here. OTP I play T1 unmak, take pox, walker. you play bog. W2/2. Imp, discard kozilek, shufle kozilek on top. W3/3. draw kozilek. W4/4. draw and play small pox, we are both at 19, your library is your 4 cards with bog on the bottom, I have 4 tokens. I attack (15), draw 1, 11, draw second, 7, draw third card, 3, draw and play tapped bog, die. OTD it's the same but I do have only three copters: 16, draw1, 13 draw 2, 10, draw 3, 7, draw and play Bog, 4. If you play pox now, you die (3 vs 2 tokens). So you play imp. I attack, you discard Kozilek (shuffle), chump, 2 tokens get through: you're on 2 with imp in the grave, kozi in the lib. In your turn you can small pox, leaving me with only 1 token, but you go to 1, and the thopter kills you.

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I agree. Will update my post (sorry for replying this late, I've been away for easter). Reading cards help. I am not saying I forgot Walker turns into a Thopter swarm when it dies.