[DTB] Team America (Aggro/Tempo Thread)

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Originally Posted by menace13

And Got to live the dream too. :wink: Had a game where the deck went turn 1 Play ThoughtSeize, t2 Play Delver + Bstorm. Turn 3 Flip Delver on TM, Cast TM, play Wasteland, swing. Turn 4 Miracle for TM#2 , Wasteland #2, swing. Turn 5 blind TM#3. Doesn't even matter what deck it was against at that point.

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This would be the most epic thing to capture on camera. Someone needs to bring this deck to a SCG Open and get this sequence recorded for posterity. The commentators and entire room would go silent, the opponent's jaw would drop, then suddenly an uproar of clapping, balloons/confetti falling from the ceiling, celebration music, women in lingerie, and Steve Menendian trouncing out on a golden throne, holding a chalice full of Beta Black Lotii with a streaming banner that says 'I TOLD YOU SO'.

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Originally Posted by wcm8

This would be the most epic thing to capture on camera. Someone needs to bring this deck to a SCG Open and get this sequence recorded for posterity. The commentators and entire room would go silent, the opponent's jaw would drop, then suddenly an uproar of clapping, balloons/confetti falling from the ceiling, celebration music, women in lingerie, and Steve Menendian trouncing out on a golden throne, holding a chalice full of Beta Black Lotii with a streaming banner that say 'I TOLD YOU SO'.

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HAhaah. I imagined it did the same thing. I took the screenie because it was awesome. Check your PM.

Edit; Not playing Portent havent even tried it yet. 2nd Library and 4th Daze different from the 13th GP list.

Post the screenie. You must! :P

-Matt

http://www.gatheringmagic.com/richca...acy-deck-tech/

Dan's interview/deck tech. Sower is for Maverick and SnT, whereas Gilded Drake would have a more limited application. Fair enough. The video missed mentioning Sylvan Library and the maindeck removal spells, but we all know why they're in there. Very nicely done!

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Originally Posted by wcm8

http://www.gatheringmagic.com/richca...acy-deck-tech/

Dan's interview/deck tech. Sower is for Maverick and SnT, whereas Gilded Drake would have a more limited application. Fair enough. The video missed mentioning Sylvan Library and the maindeck removal spells, but we all know why they're in there. Very nicely done!

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I'd like to hear more opinions about temporal masteries.

He says they're good against RUG. But I realise how much away I'd be if they stifle or spell pierce our mastery. An extra attack with Tombstalker though seems deadly.
The only good application I've found for masteries so far is in a heavy BUG control deck with 4 per-deeds and 4 plainswalkers.

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Originally Posted by door

I'd like to hear more opinions about temporal masteries.

He says they're good against RUG. But I realise how much away I'd be if they stifle or spell pierce our mastery. An extra attack with Tombstalker though seems deadly.
The only good application I've found for masteries so far is in a heavy BUG control deck with 4 per-deeds and 4 plainswalkers.

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I'm curious about the SB strategy against RUG as well. My approach would be:
-4 FoW
-4 Temporal Mastery
+2 Diabolic Edict
+2 Spell Pierce
+1 Thoughtseize
+1 Engineered Explosives
+1 Maelstrom Pulse (or maybe Darkblast instead)
+1 Nihil Spellbomb

But if he's keeping TM in, I'm not sure what he would end up cutting instead, or if he even brings in the rest of it.

Top2 splited last weekend (i've didnt posted this before for some reason who i forgot right now)

4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Island
4 Wasteland

4 Delver of secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Tombstalker
1 Vendilion Clique

4 Force of Will
4 Spell Pierce
3 Daze

4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder

3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize

2 Go for the Throat
1 Dismember
1 Darkblast

1 Life from the Loam

sb:

3 Pernicious Deed
2 Perish
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Submerge
2 extirpate
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Blue Elemental Blast
ps: Field called.

Mv of the day: Life from the Loam. Just fantastic at any time you draw it. It won some games against Maverick (with xx wastelands against something like Maze of ith, against him Wastelands with KotR, etc.) TES and zenith Rock. Also, a dredge to throw away those cards you know you dont care with ponder, brainstorm, delver, and get your stalker more viable. Same for Darkblast. Just amazing against Maverick.

Its a removal for all day long against maverick, blade decks (-1 in upkeep + dredge in draw phase + (-1) main phase), etc. Also get your Stalker strongest, again. ps: its save me from a game who I think is 99 percent to lose: Merfolk.

Matches: Grizel Reanimate, Maverick, Zenith Rock, TES, Merfolk, UW Miracle, UR Delver.

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Originally Posted by reev_

Top2 splited last weekend (i've didnt posted this before for some reason who i forgot right now)

4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Island
4 Wasteland

4 Delver of secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Tombstalker
1 Vendilion Clique

4 Force of Will
4 Spell Pierce
3 Daze

4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder

3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize

2 Go for the Throat
1 Dismember
1 Darkblast

1 Life from the Loam

sb:

3 Pernicious Deed
2 Perish
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Submerge
2 extirpate
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Blue Elemental Blast
ps: Field called.

Mv of the day: Life from the Loam. Just fantastic at any time you draw it. It won some games against Maverick (with xx wastelands against something like Maze of ith, against him Wastelands with KotR, etc.) TES and zenith Rock. Also, a dredge to throw away those cards you know you dont care with ponder, brainstorm, delver, and get your stalker more viable. Same for Darkblast. Just amazing against Maverick.

Its a removal for all day long against maverick, blade decks (-1 in upkeep + dredge in draw phase + (-1) main phase), etc. Also get your Stalker strongest, again. ps: its save me from a game who I think is 99 percent to lose: Merfolk.

Matches: Grizel Reanimate, Maverick, Zenith Rock, TES, Merfolk, UW Miracle, UR Delver.

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Some of the numbers feel messed up to me. Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing with the results, it's just funny that between this list and a list I'd intuitively play, some of the numbers are reversed: I'd much rather have the full set of Dazes rather than Spell Pierces, and I'd rather play 3 Thoughtseize and 2 Inquisition, not the other way around.

This is micro-managing on a terrible level, however. Congratulations on the nice result, and I love that list (maindeck Loam is so sweet). Did you ever miss Sylvan Library?

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Originally Posted by Purgatory

Some of the numbers feel messed up to me. Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing with the results, it's just funny that between this list and a list I'd intuitively play, some of the numbers are reversed: I'd much rather have the full set of Dazes rather than Spell Pierces, and I'd rather play 3 Thoughtseize and 2 Inquisition, not the other way around.

This is micro-managing on a terrible level, however. Congratulations on the nice result, and I love that list (maindeck Loam is so sweet). Did you ever miss Sylvan Library?

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Ty.
3 kozileks and 2 seizes rather 3 seizes and 2 kozileks was a field call. We have Burn, Lot of Zoo and UR delver/canadian here. I know wich this field looks like poor for TA (plus goblins and Merfolk (like 20% of the field was goblins + merfolk)) but I though I MUST run Pernicious deed for that champ. And personally, I love Inquisiton of Kozilek.
I Though I could add a single Sylvan in main deck. That is another card who I love. But I don't think cut out a ponder or other good card for our tempo plan would be good.

reev_ Congrats how many people were there? I like your list its similar to what i roll with and I also maindeck IoK LftL and darkblast + sometimes sylvan library. I love IoK too but I actually prefer duress to TS. Why GftT and dismember? Also I would be interested to hear about your SB.

On sylvan library, I have found this (and LftL) to be excellent main and if countered/destroyed it grows goyf. Its a bomb. I go back and forth on what I drop for it but its either the 4th wasteland or the 4th ponder, usually ponder now with SnS coming into power.

Sooo I won a box of Innistrad playing the Miracle build last night. I can go into more detail about the matchups later, but one thing I really want to say about the deck is that it's so much fun to play. Temporal Mastery adds a certain excitement (and power) to the deck that didn't exist before. I dont think the card is nuts broken (especially since you have to warp the deck somewhat to make it reliable), but casting 2-3 of them over the course of a game just puts you so far ahead.

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Originally Posted by wcm8

Sooo I won a box of Innistrad playing the Miracle build last night. I can go into more detail about the matchups later, but one thing I really want to say about the deck is that it's so much fun to play. Temporal Mastery adds a certain excitement (and power) to the deck that didn't exist before. I dont think the card is nuts broken (especially since you have to warp the deck somewhat to make it reliable), but casting 2-3 of them over the course of a game just puts you so far ahead.

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Congrats on your finish and +1 about TM.

Did you run the GP list card for a card or did you change something around? Did some test games myself against Nic Fit and Merfolk yesterday and the deck indeed is very nice. Both of theese matchups are more of a 50:50 in my feelings, so a lot depends on the players and the starting seven I guess. Smashing for 16 in the air in two consecutive turns with Tombstalker and Insectile Aboration is quite strong, though.

I changed the manabase a bit since there are a lot of Wastelands in my area. Maybe I am just to cautious, but the manabase worked pretty well during my games:

3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island (might switch one for another Misty Rainforest)
1 Bayou
1 Swamp
1 Island
4 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs

The reason for just 3 UG Seas? Pimping the deck. I only own 3 bb Seas at the moment. :)

I ran the list card-for-card, except changing the 2 deathmarks for 2 massacre

A card I would like to fit into the deck somewhere is life from the loam. I think against some decks, recurring wasteland several turns in a row would be backbreaking, and it's also a great card to protect yourself from mana screw.

Top4 in 26 man today with almost same list. Little difference in sb: -2 submerge +2 hymn to tourach. The field was a bit more combo decks.

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Originally Posted by JeroenC

I went Top 8 today, went 5-0+2 intentional draws in the swiss. (Lost in two fast games versus the UW Miracle in Top 8, no byes for me.) Decklist felt very good:

4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Island
1 Taiga
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland

4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

4 Lightning Bolt
2 Forked Bolt

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Nimble Mongoose

I was mostly happy with the deck though I wish I'd have one other counterspell to go down to 3 Pierce maindeck. 2 Snares feels correct though, so I can't go for a 3/3 split there.

About the Taiga: I had to mulligan once because of it, but for the rest of the day I liked it a lot.

In the sideboard, most notable card was the 2 Ancient Grudges. Sided it in in 4 of my 5 Swiss matches, always decided at least one game.

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This is by far the greatest UBG deck I've ever seen.

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Originally Posted by wcm8

Sooo I won a box of Innistrad playing the Miracle build last night. I can go into more detail about the matchups later, but one thing I really want to say about the deck is that it's so much fun to play. Temporal Mastery adds a certain excitement (and power) to the deck that didn't exist before. I dont think the card is nuts broken (especially since you have to warp the deck somewhat to make it reliable), but casting 2-3 of them over the course of a game just puts you so far ahead.

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Congrats for the win wcm!!
If you mind sharing your matchups, i'll be glad to hear them and how TM could influence your way to victory in the different games.

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Originally Posted by CookedChestnuts

This is by far the greatest UBG deck I've ever seen.

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It's funny, what I felt my BUG list was lacking in my last tournament was some good old burn for some reach. So I might concur with the statement above, cutting discard for some burn might be what BUG needs in some metagames ;)

About the version running Temporal Masteries: @ Nitewolf9, wcm8, the Hatfields and others who played with the list:

1) Did any of you run into Submerge on Tombstalker at any time? This is an issue which bothers me a little bit.

2) Did you consider running any other color combination than UBg? UBx obv. is the best basis, as Tombstalker is the best creature to swing with, especially when your decks contains 4 Temporal Mastery, but other color combinations than UBg lack a suitable replacement for Tarmogoyf.

-> Red might be possible, offering burn and very good Sideboard options, but a creature is obv. better than a Lightning Bolt when taking extra turns. Lavamancer came to my mind, but he is manahungry and doesn't synergizes well with Tombstalker.
-> White offers unconditional removal and some nice SB options as well. Jötun Grunt came to mind, but again this is more of a conditional guy who also doesn't work very well with Tombstalker. Meddling Mage is nice, but more of a SB card.
-> Therefore splashing anything other than Green means we have to use something like Vendilion Clique, which is nice, but which is a 3 cmc card and therefore not providing any addtional early pressure next to Delver.

EDIT:
3) How did you like the singletons, especially Liliana of the Veil?

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Originally Posted by Blitzbold

About the version running Temporal Masteries: @ Nitewolf9, wcm8, the Hatfields and others who played with the list:

1) Did any of you run into Submerge on Tombstalker at any time? This is an issue which bothers me a little bit.

2) Did you consider running any other color combination than UBg? UBx obv. is the best basis, as Tombstalker is the best creature to swing with, especially when your decks contains 4 Temporal Mastery, but other color combinations than UBg lack a suitable replacement for Tarmogoyf.

-> Red might be possible, offering burn and very good Sideboard options, but a creature is obv. better than a Lightning Bolt when taking extra turns. Lavamancer came to my mind, but he is manahungry and doesn't synergizes well with Tombstalker.
-> White offers unconditional removal and some nice SB options as well. Jötun Grunt came to mind, but again this is more of a conditional guy who also doesn't work very well with Tombstalker. Meddling Mage is nice, but more of a SB card.
-> Therefore splashing anything other than Green means we have to use something like Vendilion Clique, which is nice, but which is a 3 cmc card and therefore not providing any addtional early pressure next to Delver.

EDIT:
3) How did you like the singletons, especially Liliana of the Veil?

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This is a good Issue. We need take in mind ubr would be a tempo deck, but an ubw dont. In this case, we must put some sfm package. Is the best white creature. So i think if we chose ubw, we must run a control deck, with Jaces, maybe Geist or Snapecaster, etc.

Getting your creature submerged really sucks, especially if said creature is Tombstalker, but there are a few things to keep in mind:

-At most, RUG and similar decks will only have 3-4 Submerges. Barring something unusual like Mind Harness or Dismember, this is their only out to a resolved big creature of yours. Worrying too much about a removal spell doesn't seem worth it.
-You run Thoughtseize and counterspells. Prioritize 'seizing their threats, then removal. RUG can't really function as a deck without a threat on board.
-Try to crack fetchlands early to avoid getting your creatures shuffled away.
-If possible, try to hold off on fetching your Tropicals and Bayous. This is really draw dependent though, sometimes you'll be finding more Tarmogoyfs than Tombstalkers.

Caleb Durward mentions the Temporal Mastery build in his newest article here: http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...he-gp-weekend/

One thing interesting to note is that Dan opted to run Hymn over Thoughtseize (and also cut a fetchland for a second Bayou). I think Hymn is a completely reasonable choice depending on the metagame. Seize is generally better versus control and combo, whereas Hymn is often preferable against aggressive and midrange decks. I personally prefer Thoughtseize right now.

I am planning on playing in a local tournament this weekend and will give the TM list another go, with possibly a few variations. I'll keep y'alls posted on how it goes.