[Deck] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)

I have won our monthly Hassloch with RUG Tempo.

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf

4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
2 Dismember
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Spell Snare
4 Stifle

4 Ponder

3 Flooded Strand
3 Tropical Island
4 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothills

Sideboard:
4 Red Elemental Blast
3 Spell Pierce
4 Submerge
4 Grafdigger's Cage

The sideboard was a suggestion by Oddball and I wanted to test it and see how the Cages were. You basically win harder against Reanimator and Dredge, but at the same time you'd die to Life from the Loam. Despite having won the tournament, I have to admit that RUG Tempo is probably not the best choice at the moment.

However, I think I might be able to adress some points made here:

Playing Countertop as a SB option:

This is just a waste of slots imo. I have no idea how the list with Countertop in the SB looks like, but iirc, it plays 4 Goyf and 4 Snapcasters maindeck and 3 Balances in the SB which makes it 11 CC2 cards and maybe 4 Spell Snares to counter CC2 spells. This is simply not enough to concequently counter CC2 spells postboard. Against the classic list as shown above, I'd take out 4 Spell Snares and 3 Ponder for 7 REB/Pierce and that's it. I fail to see how you'd ever want to win a Counterwar against a build that SBs like that.

Counterbalance is decent against Combo and Burn, but combo can easily be won without Countertop and Burn is a niche deck (I believe the matchup is better now that you have a faster clock in form of Delver).

Running Spell Pierce maindeck might be an option, yes, but cutting Stifle should not ever be considered. It's sometimes a bad topdeck when you are losing anyways obv. but I fail to see how Pierce is better in that situation.
In some matchups, Stifle is just key, especially against Nic Fit to stifle Veteran Explorer, Pernicious Deed, Liliana of the Veil (I mean the Edict-ability. Ram that creature into her afterwards or Lightning Bolt it obv.) and sometimes Eternal Witness that could bring back something badass like a Zenith or whatever.

Even against Loam-based decks I'd rather have Stifle instead of Pierce so I don't get wasted out of the game during the first few turns.

Not to mention other frequently played cards that get hosed by Stifle like Snapcaster, Stoneforge Mystic, Hive Mind. It's pretty difficult to find a deck where Stifle is completely dead.

I totally agree to your conclusions Adan.
Snapcaster/Counterbalance do not have a place for me in this very streamlined deck.

I am currently practicing your list -1 mongoose + 1 Fire/Ice.

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Originally Posted by Adan

I have won our monthly Hassloch with RUG Tempo.

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf

4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
2 Dismember
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Spell Snare
4 Stifle

4 Ponder

3 Flooded Strand
3 Tropical Island
4 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothills

Sideboard:
4 Red Elemental Blast
3 Spell Pierce
4 Submerge
4 Grafdigger's Cage.

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What is the reason for 4 Volcanics and 3 Tropicals? You're running 8 green cards and 4 red cards maindeck. I'm currently building this deck and don't have all the duals yet, so I'm interested to hear.

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Originally Posted by Awaclus

What is the reason for 4 Volcanics and 3 Tropicals? You're running 8 green cards and 4 red cards maindeck. I'm currently building this deck and don't have all the duals yet, so I'm interested to hear.

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Well you never want and need more than 1 Tropical Island on your board and the 7th Fetchland is there to help you to:

- Dump more permanents in your grave for Mongoose
- Make Brainstorm and Ponder better
- Do tricks with Delver of Secrets

This makes only a marginal difference, but I don't think you are in the need of a 4th Tropical. Running a 4th Tropical might be an option when you are convinced that you will be playing a lot of mirrormatches.

But you really just want Tropical Island at the moment you are really intending to cast a creature (i.e. Goyf/Goose). For everything else there is Volcanic Island.

Fire/Ice is okay to have a 5th burnspell, but I thought that in any matchup Nimble Mongoose is the better card compared to Fire//Ice. Especially in the mirrormatch which is to a degree decided by who drops more creatures.
It will also probably win you the matchups where your Delvers get gunned down permanently.

How did you like the Dismembers? Anything you would change if you were to play a tournament again tomorrow?

Thats a pretty straight sideboard! Why do you think that RUG Tempo is a medicore deck at the moment? Because of the Maverick-prevelance? Or because of the switch from dual-manabase to more basics due to the rise of Burn?

Greetings und Gratulation!

Can somebody explain to me why the 8 dual 6 fetch land combo is so common in RUG decklist. It seems to me that 8 fetches 6 duals is just better (for more shuffle effects, enabling mongoose, slighly better color access).

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Originally Posted by ajfennewald

Can somebody explain to me why the 8 dual 6 fetch land combo is so common in RUG decklist. It seems to me that 8 fetches 6 duals is just better (for more shuffle effects, enabling mongoose, slighly better color access).

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Its gonna suck when someone runs a choke on you when you only have 6 lands.

The manabase is that way because the creator of Canadian Threshold made it that way. And people netdeck like a motherfucker. I've never played this deck with 6 fetch 8 duals. I always play it the opposite way. It's irrelevant which combination you play against a marginally used sideboard card like Choke, for which you have Daze and Force of Will to answer. Plus it doesn't even come online fast enough to stop an early Goose + Delver rush anyway.

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Originally Posted by Hanni

The manabase is that way because the creator of Canadian Threshold made it that way. And people netdeck like a motherfucker. I've never played this deck with 6 fetch 8 duals. I always play it the opposite way. It's irrelevant which combination you play against a marginally used sideboard card like Choke, for which you have Daze and Force of Will to answer. Plus it doesn't even come online fast enough to stop an early Goose + Delver rush anyway.

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Back in the day stifle was played in plenty of decks and tempo decks were a large part of the meta. Playing less fetchlands was accepted as the best choice in the tempo mirror. This makes you less vulnerable to being blown out by a stifle. IMO I still prefer a quicker threshold mongoose so I play 8 fetch 6 duals.

Another thing Adan I wanted to ask you,
its the Submerge vs Mind Harness question. With you playing 4 Submerge I think youre pretty on the Submerge-side but isnt Harness strictly better? I mean its not instant but just for U you can get rid of an big fatty aswell - but youll be able to keep this guy 2-3-4 turns and attack with it whereas Submerge bounces for free - but enables the opponent to cast it again on their side! What do you think?

GReetings

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Originally Posted by Philipp802

Another thing Adan I wanted to ask you,
its the Submerge vs Mind Harness question. With you playing 4 Submerge I think youre pretty on the Submerge-side but isnt Harness strictly better? I mean its not instant but just for U you can get rid of an big fatty aswell - but youll be able to keep this guy 2-3-4 turns and attack with it whereas Submerge bounces for free - but enables the opponent to cast it again on their side! What do you think?

GReetings

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I don't have Mind Harness and I also don't think it's good in a deck in which you don't want to have more than 3 lands on board. Additionally, I also don't think you want to pay these upkeep costs when you want to have mana open for Spell Snare/Stifle/Bolts. In addition to that the decks playing KotR are usually playing Wasteland which can hose you pretty much. I've witnessed people stealing a KotR for 2 Turns and then still dying to it anyway as they could not apply additional pressure during that turns.

Submerge is also better against Zenith decks in the early turns where they might want to circumvent your Stifle with Savannah/Tropical Island, Zenith -> Arbor on the draw.
The answer to this could then be Submerge on Arbor, Waste on Dual, drop Mongoose/Delver. Hopefully with Daze-backup. It's pretty hard to recover from that one.

Dismember is very awkward for me, sometimes it was amazing and sometimes I wanted to tear that card apart for not being able to save me from... Grave Titan for example.
But at the moment I would not play without it.

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Originally Posted by Philipp802

Another thing Adan I wanted to ask you,
its the Submerge vs Mind Harness question. With you playing 4 Submerge I think youre pretty on the Submerge-side but isnt Harness strictly better? I mean its not instant but just for U you can get rid of an big fatty aswell - but youll be able to keep this guy 2-3-4 turns and attack with it whereas Submerge bounces for free - but enables the opponent to cast it again on their side! What do you think?

GReetings

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The upkeep cost of Mind Harness can frequently be relevant. Maverick can answer Harness with Mother of Runes and/or Quasali Pridemage, though this alone isn't reason enough to discount it.

Submerge, in the matchups where it matters, is essentially a free Time Walk. In a deck based around tempo, each turn is absolutely critical. The best-case scenario of Mind Harnessing a KotR when it matters is pretty infrequent, compared to the times when you can slow an opponent's development down by Submerging a Mother of Runes/Noble Hierarch/Dryad Arbor. It's also basically 'real' removal if you play it in response to a shuffle effect like fetchland, KotR activation, or GSZ.

If you plan to run Mongoose, id suggest the 8 fetch, 6 duals so as to reach threshold faster

Ive been wondering about the inclusion of ancient grudge/kgrip in the SB. So far I havent found much use for them and I was curious what other people think. Im considering dropping them for a pair of engineered explosives.

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Originally Posted by Tombstalker

Ive been wondering about the inclusion of ancient grudge/kgrip in the SB. So far I havent found much use for them and I was curious what other people think. Im considering dropping them for a pair of engineered explosives.

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You need Krosan Grip to address the mirror. Otherwise, 2/1 split has been working fine for me.

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Originally Posted by Adan

I don't have Mind Harness and I also don't think it's good in a deck in which you don't want to have more than 3 lands on board. Additionally, I also don't think you want to pay these upkeep costs when you want to have mana open for Spell Snare/Stifle/Bolts. In addition to that the decks playing KotR are usually playing Wasteland which can hose you pretty much. I've witnessed people stealing a KotR for 2 Turns and then still dying to it anyway as they could not apply additional pressure during that turns.

Submerge is also better against Zenith decks in the early turns where they might want to circumvent your Stifle with Savannah/Tropical Island, Zenith -> Arbor on the draw.
The answer to this could then be Submerge on Arbor, Waste on Dual, drop Mongoose/Delver. Hopefully with Daze-backup. It's pretty hard to recover from that one.

Dismember is very awkward for me, sometimes it was amazing and sometimes I wanted to tear that card apart for not being able to save me from... Grave Titan for example.
But at the moment I would not play without it.

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Smart Maverick players won't willingly fetch into a dual land against Tempo decks. Submerge/Bolt/waste is a huge tempo loss, and having a stable mana base is more important than flexibility. GW/r versions may not have this option however.

In my testing vs maverick, submerge is a blowout only if
1. they are dumb enough to keep fetching forests and not just use their mana guys
2. You already have a quick start on them IE: turn 1 delver ---> turn 2/3 flip
Without a quick start, the time walk becomes irrelevant if they realize to not fetch, they can dump their whole hand in a couple turns, making them recast a knight ( this is under the assumption that the tempo player cannot counter it) is not a big deal to them unless they are about to die. With that said, I find that the red splash maverick decks are actually easier for tempo than normal G/W, the terrible manabase in GWr makes the mana denial ( bolt noble, waste savannahs) a much more viable plan.

Yes Im realising this aswell - with the upcome of Punishing Maverick or Punishing Blade these decks got even a little easier. Yes they got 2-4 Punishing Fires to burn our Delvers but finally our Manadenial-Plan works....

What I really dont like at RUG Tempo is its MU vs certain budget-decks..speaking of Poxx and MonoWhiteWhennie... Is it just my inexperience (just played this deck for a couple of weeks) or what?

And Im playing a split of 2 Harness/ 2 Submerge atm as they both are great.

Greetings

EDIT: What is your opinion on my sideboard? Help is highly appreciated.

2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Spell Pierce

3 Surgical Extraction
1 Tormods Crypt

2 Submerge
2 Mind Harness

2 Krosan Grip
1 Ancient Grudge

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Originally Posted by Philipp802

EDIT: What is your opinion on my sideboard? Help is highly appreciated.

2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Spell Pierce

3 Surgical Extraction
1 Tormods Crypt

2 Submerge
2 Mind Harness

2 Krosan Grip
1 Ancient Grudge

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Pyroblast must always be strictly better if you play with Nimble Mongoose to reach threshhold. It's a metacall but I always run with double Ancient Grudge and 4 grave hate seems too much to me so I would cut the Tormod's Crypt for that 2nd Ancient Grudge.