[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

A few more thoughts on Vraska have occurred since I last posted.

I think that she's a trap if we think of her as a trap. Aside: Inception theme just came on on Pandora. BWAH

But seriously. I was reading some commentary in the discussion thread on Salvation. They're all like, "But you can just ignore her!" Which is basically Bruizar's point.

And yeah, you CAN ignore her. But I think that we're evaluating her incorrectly. She WANTS you to ignore her. Think about it.

You drop Vraska on an open field post-Deed, let's say. Your RUG opponent has yet to recover, you're at a suitably high amount of life, let's say 12 or so. You throw up her shield and pass turn. Your erstwhile creature-faring opponent has a decision to make. He rips Tarmogoyf. Do you play Tarmogoyf? Vraska will just kill it. Do you not play Tarmogoyf and sit there letting her tick up until you draw another creature? But you're playing RUG and you have like 9 creatures left in your entire deck.

Vraska puts the opponent in a really awkward spot. Vraska is literally ALWAYS going to be at least a 2-for-1. At least. She'll win the game eventually....in her own time. Think of Vraska more as a Stax card, almost, and then she'll make more sense.

I stand by my previous assessment that she'll only find a home in control-oriented BUG Fit, but good lord will she be amazing in that one version. She's just strange, because she doesn't need to impact the board to be impacting the board. I think you kind of have to stand on your head for a while to actually wrap your head around her.

I'm not sure that this will happen to often, but Vraska can kill Emrakul, whereas Pulse, Vindicate, StP, etc. cannot.

I am not sure about the card, but I am eager to test her. I think she might help this deck as a one-of, that you board out against decks that play bolt spells. She's also easily dealt with in the mirror.

The advantage of Vraska is that she will very often (although not always) get you a two-for-one. You could drop her and use the Pulse ability to nuke a permanent. Then two turns later, you can kill a second permanent if your opponent has not dealt with her.

I think it's wrong to be comparing Vraska with Pulse, as you are comparing 5cc and 3cc spells. Vraska is competing for a spot(s) against other spells at the same casting cost (or at least in the 4cc to 6cc range). When in doubt, I would run a green creature over a non-green creature or Planeswalker, because of GSZ as a tutor. Is Vraska better in this deck than Garruk, Primal Hunter, for example?

I agree. She is more of a pure control card. We are more of a Rock control deck where Liliana is just much better. BUG can definitely use her. I see what you are saying about her, but the fact that her +1 kind of does nothing sometimes they can just ignore her then win the game by attacking right past her.

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Originally Posted by Justin

I'm not sure that this will happen to often, but Vraska can kill Emrakul, whereas Pulse, Vindicate, StP, etc. cannot.

I am not sure about the card, but I am eager to test her. I think she might help this deck as a one-of, that you board out against decks that play bolt spells. She's also easily dealt with in the mirror.

The advantage of Vraska is that she will very often (although not always) get you a two-for-one. You could drop her and use the Pulse ability to nuke a permanent. Then two turns later, you can kill a second permanent if your opponent has not dealt with her.

I think it's wrong to be comparing Vraska with Pulse, as you are comparing 5cc and 3cc spells. Vraska is competing for a spot(s) against other spells at the same casting cost (or at least in the 4cc to 6cc range). When in doubt, I would run a green creature over a non-green creature or Planeswalker, because of GSZ as a tutor. Is Vraska better in this deck than Garruk, Primal Hunter, for example?

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I think no. Not in the Normal builds of Nic-Fit.

Guess I shouldn't lurk anymore.

Last Sunday, 9/2/12, I was able to make the top 8 of SCG Minneapolis while playing the Scapeshift Nic Fit. I didn't take great notes but hopefully what I do have for you will help develop this deck to be even better.

First, a little about me, I played MTG from about 1995-2000 before starting back up again after Mirrodin Besieged. I didn't liquidate my collection so I was able to get into legacy pretty easily. I am mainly a limited player, but with SCG Minneapolis being so close to home I couldn't resist getting a legacy deck together.

I used Arianrhod's list which he top 4'd a Jupiter games event with a couple small changes. The first change, which I cannot defend, was cutting a Huntsmaster of the Fells for a Wickerbough elder. Wickerbough elder was fairly bad for me all day and at the end of the day, I couldn't even remember what my thought process was for making this change. I also cut one Wood Elves from the maindeck. This also could be wrong, Wood Elves were pretty good for me. The relevant sideboard changes I made were the inclusion of 3x Carpet of Flowers, and 1x Chainer's Edict. Chainer's Edict was my favorite wish target all day.

The list I played can be located at : http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=49116

There were 237 people signed up for 9 rounds of play.

Round one : Alex (Zoo)
Game one: On the draw, I keep a slow hand against a Steppe lynx, Wild Natacl draw. I cast a eternal witness for no value and die quickly. Off to a fantastic start it seems.

Game Two: He floods the board with several two drops, which I casually deed away. I finish this one with a scapeshit for 30.
Game three: He mulls to five and I keep a hand with 2 deed, eternal witness. Looking at my life totals, it appears I beat down for the win.
1-0 (2-1 in games)

Round Two: Shawn (Esper control; Counterbalance)
Game one: On the play, I get a fast start with veteran explorer, but this gets him the lands to cast Jace on turn 3. He resolves a Counterbalance and seemingly knows my decklist exactly because he stops my next 4-5 spells with just Jace's brainstorms controlling the top of his deck.

Game Two: I don't have much of a memory of this game. I got him to two life before he end of turn Entreats me for 3.
1-1 (2-3 in games)

Round Three: Joseph (UW Puresteel / Thoper Sword?)
Game one: On the draw, deed takes care of most of his stuff, including a germ with a batterskull attached to it. I scapeshift him out from 18 life.

Game Two: I cabal therapy his mull to 6 apart leaving him with a bunch of tundras and islands in his hand. He doesn't play any of these to try and stop Carpet of flowers, which seemed odd. Eventually, I deed some equipment away and get there with a Huntsmaster and Thragtusk.
2-1 (4-3 in games)

Round Four: Robb (RUG delver)
Game one: I roll snake eyes and start the game with a Veteran explorer. This stops his Nimble moongooses for long enough for me to deed away several creatures and get there with a Huntsmaster.

Game two: He forces my turn one top and shreds me with a flipped delver army.
Game three: On a clock, I Burning wish for Scapeshift which gets forced. Facing lethal, I rip a Scapeshift from the top to win the match.
3-1 (6-4 in games)

Round Five: Shane (RUG delver)
Game one: On the draw, he beats me for a while with a flipped delver. I deed the board and win a close one with Huntsmaster. He counters an attempt to Scapeshift during this game.

Game two: He takes a very long pondering his keep. (Which was 3 land, 2 force, 2 Lightning Bolt). I cabal therapy turn one and miss on Brainstorm. He later forces my Veteran Explorer pitching a Spell Pierce. I Eternal Witness the Veteran Explorer back and nab three lightning bolts with the flashback cabal therapy. Eternal witness goes the distance in the next 8 or 9 turns.
4-1 (8-4 in games)

Round Six: Barrett (RUG delver)
Game One: On the draw, I resolve two Huntsmasters and he concedes early without seeing Veteran Explorer, Scapeshift of Deed.

Game Two: Carpet of Flowers does serious work allowing me to cast Thragtusk early. My opponent takes 8 from Sylvan Library just to dig for answers. Finding nothing, he scoops when I resolve a deed despite his board being clear already.

After the game I notice he had side-boarded out his Stifles. Lucky!
5-1 (10-4 in games)

Round Seven: Matt W. (RUG delver)
This guy happens to be my brother and sole test partner. He was mentioned earlier in the thread as Jbone2016's round five opponent. His lifetime record against me in limited matches is something ludicrous like 30-3.
Game One: I resolve a fast Huntsmaster and Deed him several times. Not sure how this one ended.

Game Two: I resolve several Thragtusks and his submerges look very sad in his hand. He ends up in 31st place.
6-1 (12-4 in games)

Round Eight: Matt H. (Esper Control)
Game one: On the play, I Veteran explorer turn one, and cabal therapy (and flashback) him turn two. He allows the veteran explorer trigger to resolve, and the Spell Pierce in his hand becomes dead as I take his Jace with two untapped lands in play. He V. Cliques me for a while but I cast a few Thragtusks to take my life total out of reach.

With my opponent at four with one card in hand, I attack with Thragtusk. His last card is Swords to Plowshares. With my opponent out of cards, I cast Scapeshift for the win.

Game Two: Thoughtseize + Extirpate takes my green sun's zenith. Thragtusk and Primeval Titan do some work. I play terribly with my titan's triggers leaving mountains in my deck with a Valakut already in play. It ends up not mattering.

Both Esper decks I played were playing Dust Bowl, which seemed extremely bad against Nic Fit.
7-1 (14-4 in games)

Round 9: Jeremy (Hive Mind)
My opponent offers the draw as soon as I show up. I know him to be playing Hive Mind and I accept his offer as soon as the slip arrives! At this point, I'm not confident I will even make the top 8 and I get a few high fives from my LGS people as my name is announced in 7th place.
7-1-1 (14-4 in games)

Quarterfinals: Kenny (White Goblins (Thalia))
This match is covered here: http://www.starcitygames.com/events/...ungar_vs_.html

Kenny is a fellow UWEC alumni and a stand up guy. He pretty much ran me over. At one point in game one I get an 8-9 for one with a Deed, but his hand is still stacked from Ringleaders that it hardly matters. Looking back at this match I see so many play errors. I was woefully under prepared to face goblins.

At the end of the day, I was pretty lucky with the match-ups all day. The only changes I would have liked to make would be to cut the Wickerbough Elder for another high end threat or some other sort of utility Green Sun target. I also would have killed to have a Firespout in my board as well.

In closing,

Thanks to everyone in this thread for developing such a fun deck to play. It is seriously a blast to play badlands, taigas and bayous in a world full of blue duals.

*Like.*

Now, a few questions:

How often did you flashback the Edict? Did it ever matter that Edict cost 2 as opposed to I.Blood's 1? (Assume that you didn't have I.Blood in your board for this question. Thinking of replacing). How often did you use I.Blood to sac your own Explorer?

How were the Maelstrom Pulses? I'm strongly considering replacing them with Bonfires, which would improve the tribal matchup a bit, while still maintaining the ability to kill planeswalkers (redirect the damage to the walker). The deck would suffer a little in the artifact and enchantment killing department, as it would be wholly reliant on Deed and/or BW->Pulse. Might consider putting in a Gleeful Sabotage if I make that change.

How would the Arenas have been for you, if you had them in your board as opposed to the Carpets? Seems from your report that Carpets were better overall, but some of that might be matchup-speciifc.

How often did you have to mull because of color screw in your opener, and how was the Volrath's Stronghold? Would it have been better as a 2nd Stomping Ground, you think?

Above all else: grats on the finish! Hopefully we'll see you posting a bit more now =)

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Also, just tossing out there on behalf of a friend: my friend has a couple of Korean Wood Elves, if anyone is building ScapeWish and pimping it out. I'm aiming for German on my list, so I don't want them. I can't imagine they're easy to find, though, so if anyone swings that way, just shoot me a PM. Shame to see them go to waste.

That is a lot of RUG! It makes me happy that I am playing a deck that beats the best deck... Congratulations on the top 8 though!

Speaking of SCG events... I play Punishing fire Nic Fit, but my meta is really full of fair decks. There is one SnT player that I have seen lately at the store so I never get to play that match up. What are some good SB cards for them? Is Cranial or Thought Hemmorage really that good? Right now my SB plan is probably bring in 3 red blasts and 2 duress (would be Thoughtseizes if not for budget reasons) and maybe carpet of flowers? Is that even that good against them? I do run 2 innocent blood main, and might switch back my GFTT to diabolic edict for a larger tourney. But am I underprepared?

Also what should I name with therapy? Usually against blue I blind name brainstorm.

exw, grats! Can you describe your side-ins and side-outs?

@Megadeus,

Good SnT decks are nearly impossible to beat pre-board and don't really get any better post-board. Having 4-6 Red Blasts alongside a couple of Thoughtseize is about the best you can do.

Why play Coiling Oracle at all? Baleful Strix is better most of the time, statistically at least, unless you've been spending mana on Top or Jace or something, but by the time you have that kind of mana, do you still need immediate ramp as opposed to just waiting 1 more turn to make that land drop, assuming you draw a land? If you don't flip a land off Oracle, then Baleful Strix is just plain better. I mean, let's be honest. Deathtouch and flying is pretty good.

I am fairly convinced that Oracle is vastly superior to Baleful Strix. Opening up with GU is much safer than UB, and puting a land in play as opposed to into your hand is very important against any form of Tempo deck because it means your Deed will hit sooner or past Daze. The extra land drop also grants enough tempo in the Control MUs to allow you to land Jace first. I find that the body of Oracle and Strix is rarely relevant because I mainly use them as Therapy fodder and rarely ever beat down with either.

In a lot of cases, I prefer Oracle to Explorer, I was even considering a 3/3 split at some point. Oracle is also very welcomed against Miracle and Stoneblade whenever I use the transformational sideboard.

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

What are some good SB cards for them? Is Cranial or Thought Hemmorage really that good?
Also what should I name with therapy? Usually against blue I blind name brainstorm.

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Blind calling brainstorm is most of the time a good random call.

You might want to test out what Bruizar proposed:[CARDS]Kederekt Leviathan[\CARDS]

Depending on your built you can tutor it with intuition/diabolic intent/elladamri's call/living wish/gifts ungiven. Works good with [CARDS]Phantasmal Image[\CARDS] as well.

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Originally Posted by bruizar

If you have two of them in your hand, there is no way SnT can win against you, since the second one bounces the first one, and they can't counter it.

You can also do this.
Intuition for 3 Kederekt Leviathan. Keep 1 for show and tell. Wait for show and tell to resolve putting into play Kederekt from hand, then on your turn Unearth a Kederekt from your graveyard, bounce your other Leviathan and wait for the next Show and Tell

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I do agree with Greenpoe, Baleful Strix seems much more usable then a 1/1 chumpblocking do nothing creature. If its a land and you happened to have one land in your hand then yes coiling oracle seems good. In all of the other cases it sais:

Baleful Strix
Instead of drawing a card, reveal that card and put it in your hand
Baleful Strix loses flying
Baleful strix loses death touch

And there you have a Coiling Oracle

Abrupt Decay BG
Instant Rare
Abrupt Decay can't be countered by spells or abilities.

Destroy target nonland permanent with converted mana cost 3 or less.

Geez....Smother for anything?

Is it plyed here? I think so. I will probably replace my GFTT with it if nothing else.

Hell yeah!!


http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...1&d=1346904113

Anyone had problems with counterbalance and not wanting a grip?

It doesnt pwn Jace but i'll take it anyways... Uber!!



On a side note, Im testing right now
2/3 mb Kederek Leviathan + animate dead.. scoop :P

The only minor is that the deck is even more graveyard dependant, so I changed my sb from protective/haters to haters/show and tell (jin and emraku)

Abrupt Decay is an instant Legacy Staple. It will replace any form of spot removal (GftT, Doom Blade, Dismember, etc.). However, I doubt it will replace Pulse entirely for Nic Fit, namely because of Batterskull, Jace and friends.

Oh yeah, it does make a fine Cascade target for Shardless Agent.

Want!

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Originally Posted by KMS

Hell yeah!!


http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...1&d=1346904113

Anyone had problems with counterbalance and not wanting a grip?

It doesnt pwn Jace but i'll take it anyways... Uber!!

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This will help fight all the major tier 1 strategies. RUG loses its efficient tempo counters and its efficient beaters except mongooses.

Then there is maverick, which is just entirely prone to this card.

U/W Miracles and Stoneblade are still very hard to beat I think. It loses its Counterbalance, but that wasn't really a problem. Vendilion Clique and Stoneforge Mystic already get value when you can cast abrupt though. It doesn't fix this matchup, but its nice to have something against CB.

Quote:

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On a side note, Im testing right now
2/3 mb Kederek Leviathan + animate dead.. scoop :P

The only minor is that the deck is even more graveyard dependant, so I changed my sb from protective/haters to haters/show and tell (jin and emraku)

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Kederekt Leviathan and Animate Dead is downright vicious. I like it!

Inb4 Replaces Pulse.

It doesn't. Vraska doesn't. Nothing does. Pulse (and Vindicate) are our catch-all answers. Jace has been hiding for a while now, but he's still our public enemy #1. He's the card that we struggle with the most, with the possible exception of Show and Tell. Abrupt Decay (AD) doesn't deal with that problem.

So what does it kill? Well, it kills all of Maverick...if there isn't a Mother of Runes out. This strikes me as a problem. We don't have the pile of removal in our deck that Rock does, so Mom is a lot more likely to get active, rendering this card moot. Obv. post-Deed strengths etc. It kills all of RUG's non-Goose threats. Most notably, it kills Delver on turn 2, no questions asked. No Dazes to play around, no fucks to be given. Done, gone. This is probably the strongest aspect of this card. It removes the only hands he die to out of RUG from the equation. With this card in our decks, our win % vs RUG should jump to somewhere around 90%. I'm normally leery about improving our best matchup, but since RUG has continued to be the most popular deck in the format by a good margin, I'm okay with it in this instance. Having half of our rounds be byes is a good feeling.

Miracles / Blade, then. Kills CB, as noted. Kills Clique, Stoneforge (this can delay Batterskull for several turns until we hopefully draw a Therapy). Clique does generate value, but if it's not punching us in the face for 3 every turn while they sit behind a counterwall, I'm fine with that. The most important thing out of 'blade decks IMO is that it kills Sword of Feast and Famine. Having more answers to that card is not a bad idea. When Blade gets F/F running quickly and then protects it, that can be a serious problem.

It kills a pile of other random shit too. Most goblins, all Merfolk, Vials (lol), Sylvan Libraries, LED if they let it sit there, Thopter Foundry, O-Ring, all of Zoo, etc etc.

I think that the greatest strength of AD is that it's often essentially a 1-shot Deed activation. I know there have been times where I've had to blow a Deed as a 1-for-1, and it was depressing. AD removes those situations.

I think Qweerios is exactly right here. There is no longer any reason for any version to run G4tT, Dismember, Doom Blade, or any of that garbage. This is -far- and away the best 2-drop black removal spell of all time. Outside of that, however, I'm less sure of the fate of AD. I don't think Scapewish cares, and I don't think that Rector has space. It seems that it's more of a toy for straight GB, BUG, and GBW Rock-style.

Open question: those of you who are running Darkblast, does AD replace that as well? I'm inclined to think not.

Open question 2: do you guys think that the threat of this card, coupled with our increasing popularity and Rock's resurgence after winning the last SCG Open, will result in a decline of RUG? My gut is telling me that there's another serious meta-shift coming, and that RUG (our best matchup) won't be at the center of the universe anymore. Not sure what will, though.

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I think Qweerios is exactly right here. There is no longer any reason for any version to run G4tT, Dismember, Doom Blade, or any of that garbage. This is -far- and away the best 2-drop black removal spell of all time. Outside of that, however, I'm less sure of the fate of AD. I don't think Scapewish cares, and I don't think that Rector has space. It seems that it's more of a toy for straight GB, BUG, and GBW Rock-style.

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This, its basically just an upgrade if you feel you need 2cc efficient. I know I wont be using it. Maybe I'd use 1-2 in GB, but probably not. Again it would be in the G4tT slot, not innocent blood, pulse, etc. I dont think it replaces Darkblast. Darkblast serves a different role. It is the mom killer mostly. But is meant to invalidate all of mavs mana dorks, and delvers/snaps/cliques from turn 1, to the end the game.

As for the new GB PW, unless your fine with her being a 5 mana pulse, she doesnt change the board state, or even do anything really if you just +1 her. For her to be any good, you have to have card AND board advantage, before you cast her, and while you charge her up. I say that, because if you want to use her -7, you have to have to make sure you opponent doesnt have enough blockers/removal.

With PW like elspeth, and garruk, lilliana they have an immediate impact on the board/hand that is INCREASING their loyalty so they can impact the board even more. Where as Vraska doesnt do anything till you charge her up a bit, or she can be a 5cc pulse.

She might have a place in a really control heavy BUG variant, that gets free card advantage, but needs a solid wincon. But then again, why not just place more JTMS?