[Deck] Turbo Depths

Hi All. I just top 8-ed a quarterly Atlanta legacy event. I don't want to get too into the details because a lot of it is not super interesting. But a couple games did bring up interesting questions/discussions.

My matchups:

Round 1: 2-0 Grixis Delver
Round 2: 2-0 Turbo Depths mirror (more on this later)
Round 3: 0-2 Sneak n Show
Round 4: 2-0 Sneak n Show (more on these later)
Round 5: 2-0 Burn
Round 6: 2-1 Jeskai Stoneblade
Round 7: ID
Top8: 0-2 BUG Midrange (I got thrashed--wastelands, hymns, jace, liliana, FOW, Strixae, MD thoughtseize...brutal).

So, I'm interested to see how you all approach the mirror--as I have only faced it a few times and I feel like I have no idea what to do. In my match against it this time I just got the good side of variance (and my opponent did not) and I rode that to victory. I sideboarded (on the draw) bringing in Libraries, Rite of Consumptions, Decays, Karakas, and Surgical to take more of a control role. But I don't think I would do the same thing on the play. The other recent time I faced Depths in a tourney I ended up Needling Stage and beat down with ESGs. I get the sense that the first person to go for the combo usually loses--but that assumption is based on very few experiences. How do you all approach the mirror? In assessing lines of play? Sideboarding? Play vs draw?

Also, how do you all find the Sneak n Show matchup? I don't mind it because we have tons of discard and can play around Blood Moon post-board (plus Karakas). But sometimes they just draw exactly what they need for their 2 card combo and go off. My experience has been it is like 65% favorable, but in talking to another experienced depths player he finds it 50% or less. We agreed perhaps it is the quality of S&S player we have faced. How do you all find it?

Hey Guys,

I'am totally new to this deck.
I must say after watching a lot of video's and reading the primer, i really like the way the decks work.
Some games you just win because your hand is just unbeatable.
Other games you really have to take in concideration how you're opponent is gone respond on some actions.
In some cases you can even force your opponent to do things you want:)

So i'am gonna playtest it a lot watch a lot more videos and got 200 pages of content to read.
DSN Solver thank you for you al your video's they help a lot in understanding the deck.

I do have a question about the following video tough
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUAA...outu.be&t=2255
The match i have a question about starts at 37:35 minutes
38:19 he sees a hand because of TS
- Cabal therapy
- Dures
- Dures
- Lion's Eye Diamond
- TOP
- 2 Delta
Wich says he is on some kind of storm deck (ant or doomsday)

On the opponents turn 1 he gets duressed
- This is fine because sylvan scrying doesnt do a lot here
- But know the opponent knows about the Hexmage (for therapy)

My Question is on is own turn.
Shouldnt he have played the depths and copy the swamp of the opponent with the free mana of the spirit guide.

So that in his next turn he can play the depts and cast the hexmage of the copied stage?
- I think the only reason to not copying it is to make the therapy for your opponent easier. On the other hand shouldnt the opponent have therapyd the hexmage anyways;)?
- If the opponent would have therapyd the Hexmage he at least could have a lucky topdeck. Without copying the swamp he needs to draw black mana into Hexmage.
- In this case it doenst matter opponent chose wrong and he topdecked a urborg tomb


Like i said i'am completely new to this deck so i'am sorry if i miss something stupid :laugh:
I'am just trying to understand the mechanics:)

Thanks in advance!

If I understand your question, you are wondering why I didn't play the Stage on turn 2, then in response to Therapy to copy my Bayou by pitching the spirit guide? Therapy then takes Hexmage and I need to draw any mana source or Hexmage (3 Hexmage, 4 Petal, 3 Spirit Guide, 4 Verdant, 2 Bayou, 1 Forest, 1 Swamp, 3 Urborg, 3 Stage, 1 GQ = 25 hits in 2 draws, roughly 75%) to combo on turn 3 or 4.

That is a good play. I was talking to chat through the whole video so I missed this line. It's not strictly better, since the way the game played out I could have drawn any black source (4 Lotus Petal, 4 Verdant Catacombs, 2 Bayou, 1 Swamp, 3 Urborg = 14 hits, roughly 27%) and won *a turn earlier* which is better in that spot because my opponent had filtering with Top and would get lots of value out of additional draw steps.

I'm glad you are liking the deck and feel free to ask any more questions. Most of my videos are outdated because they are when I was playing Not of This World and Miracles was still around.

Edit: Missed Caseyc's comment. My thoughts:

Sneak and Show is favorable. 8 discard maindeck, a fast combo that they sometimes can't counterspell, 3 maindeck Needles for Sneak Attack / Griselbrand make G1 pretty good. As long as you can dodge Blood Moon postboard, you should be fine. However, they can just force of will your turn 1 discard and jam moon on turn 2 reliably, and there's not much you can do about that unless you bring in Decays. I don't really like doing that, but you could.

In the Turbo Depths mirror, I really like having access to Library. Usually, if I can untap with it, I am super far ahead and I probably will be able to hit all my land drops, accumulate Stages in play and Crop Rotations in hand, all while discarding my opponent's good cards. I then typically aim to win by attacking with creatures, since I will have access to more creatures than my opponent due to the card advantage from Library. I can freely needle both combo pieces at some point because I will probably be able to outaggro my opponent with my creatures.

When I don't have an opener with Library, I like playing the mirror conservatively just because I could eventually find a Library and be on the gameplan described above. I am ~75% win rate in the mirror, but that's on about 10 matches total in the hundreds of matches I've played with the deck.

Hello, this is my DD list still in construction for an incoming Legacy Tournament this week. what's your opinion?
I have opted for using LW and less power in the Sideboard, but is also because I have almost no experience in competitive and probably will not pilot the SB pretty well.
4 Bayou
3 Dark Depths
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
3 Thespian's Stage
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs

4 Elvish Spirit Guide
3 Vampire Hexmage
2 Sylvan Safekeeper

4 Crop Rotation
2 Duress
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Gitaxian Probe
2 Into the North
4 Living Wish
2 Thoughtseize
2 Hymn to Tourach

4 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Diamond

2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Sylvan Library
1 Pithing Needle

SIDEBOARD
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Rite of Consumtion
1 Dark Depths
1 Ramunap Excavator
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Karakas
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Vampire Hexmage
1 Bojuka Bog. Note1 : I was also considering to play a Reanimator Depths list, but I will find for sure a lot of cementry-hate to be effective. Note 2: With this DD list I will still very afraid of Phiting Needle, Wasteland /GQ Surgical Extraction and BloodMoon / Magus of the Moon
What is your opinion? Taking account my expected meta will be Eldrazis,. D&T Elves S&S and BR Reanimator.

I mean, this deck is hard to play, and you're not going to make it easier for yourself by metagaming your expected meta - Legacy is more difficult than that.

Other than that, some of your card choices seem pretty random to me. You have a weird split of discard spells and Gitaxian Probes, 1 Mox Diamond. I have always played 4 Duress 4 Thoughtseize and it isn't close IMO.

With some modifications, your deck will definitely be better than Reanimator Depths.

Thank you to DNSolver very much for your prompt response.
I will follow his advices.
Apart of that, I’m considering include one Wasteland, but why is better to play Ghost Quarter in the main than Wasteland?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by malekith

Thank you to DNSolver very much for your prompt response.
I will follow his advices.
Apart of that, I’m considering include one Wasteland, but why is better to play Ghost Quarter in the main than Wasteland?

---

You usually want to name Wasteland with your Needle/Spyglass.

5-0ed the comp league with the standard DNsolver build, albiet with spheres over mindbreaks

2-0 DNT
2-0 Storm
2-1 Grixis Delver
2-0 Grixis Delver
2-0 Eldrazi post

Looking good 4 months out from the team GP!

Thank you Hopo, that's the point, you are right.

Are there people in here that stream the deck on twitch? Please let me know so i can follow:cool:

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/838629#online

apologies for the fetchlands of poverty.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jdmdave

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/838629#online

apologies for the fetchlands of poverty.

---

How were the ground seals? how often were you bringing them in?

Has anyone tried out Sorcerous Spyglass as a 1 of in the sideboard replacing the 4th needle?

I've thought about it as its good vs Storm (LED) as well as everything needle hit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by solnox

Has anyone tried out Sorcerous Spyglass as a 1 of in the sideboard replacing the 4th needle?

I've thought about it as its good vs Storm (LED) as well as everything needle hit.

---

David Long was on 1 in the main a few weeks ago--seemed odd to me to have the 1st spyglass in the main with the 4th needle still in the board. I'm intrigued by it, but haven't tested it yet.

I'm a bonobo. Doesn't hit led. Makes it worse

Yesterday I tried out something new I call "Bloody Depths", what uses the new interaction between Magus of the Moon and Dark Depths. Depths comes without counter under a Moon and when you get rid of the Moon you have a Depths without counter and get a Marit Lage. Magus also wins very often by itself. The deck seems very strong in the current meta, because u have a good matchup against Delver, Czech Pile, BUG, Elves. The combo matchup is very poor, but u can try to fix it with the sideboard. To kill ur own Magus I use Punishing Fire and Fling. Fling is also very nice with Marit Lage. For protection I played Sylvan Safekeeper, because the manabase can't support black anymore. I'm testing the deck now for a while and gave in a try yesterday at a 69 man tournament. I played the following list:

//Lands
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Dark Depths
4 Thespian's Stage
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
4 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Taiga

//Creatures
4 Sylvan Safekeeper
4 Magus of the Moon

//Spells
4 Crop Rotation
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Expedition Map
4 Mox Diamond
4 Punishing Fire
2 Fling
2 Sylvan Library
3 Pithing Needle

//Sideboard
3 Pyroclasm
1 Karakas
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Ground Seal
2 Krosan Grip
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Dryad Arbor


Matchups yesterday were:

2:0 vs BUG Nic Fit
2:0 vs UR Moon
2:1 vs Elves
0:2 vs Sneak Show
2:1 vs Death and Taxes
2:0 vs RUG Delver
ID vs RUG Delver

Quarterfinal
1:2 vs RUG Delver

Any ideas on the list or the whole deckplan? Pls share your thoughts with me :)

This is a really cool build, I'm intrigued! I'll try and play it at my store soon and report back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Quentin Coldman

Yesterday I tried out something new I call "Bloody Depths", what uses the new interaction between Magus of the Moon and Dark Depths. Depths comes without counter under a Moon and when you get rid of the Moon you have a Depths without counter and get a Marit Lage. Magus also wins very often by itself. The deck seems very strong in the current meta, because u have a good matchup against Delver, Czech Pile, BUG, Elves. The combo matchup is very poor, but u can try to fix it with the sideboard. To kill ur own Magus I use Punishing Fire and Fling. Fling is also very nice with Marit Lage. For protection I played Sylvan Safekeeper, because the manabase can't support black anymore. I'm testing the deck now for a while and gave in a try yesterday at a 69 man tournament. I played the following list:

//Lands
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Dark Depths
4 Thespian's Stage
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
4 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Taiga

//Creatures
4 Sylvan Safekeeper
4 Magus of the Moon

//Spells
4 Crop Rotation
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Expedition Map
4 Mox Diamond
4 Punishing Fire
2 Fling
2 Sylvan Library
3 Pithing Needle

//Sideboard
3 Pyroclasm
1 Karakas
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Ground Seal
2 Krosan Grip
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Dryad Arbor


Matchups yesterday were:

2:0 vs BUG Nic Fit
2:0 vs UR Moon
2:1 vs Elves
0:2 vs Sneak Show
2:1 vs Death and Taxes
2:0 vs RUG Delver
ID vs RUG Delver

Quarterfinal
1:2 vs RUG Delver

Any ideas on the list or the whole deckplan? Pls share your thoughts with me :)

---

i guess your record speaks for itself - innovative list. I've been trying to work on a list with blood moon effect too, but haven't gotten too far. One of the reasons I stopped is because I'm just not sure how some of the interactions work. Like when you were playing death and taxes, If they have wasteland out, can they kill your dark depths once you kill your magus? I think it's a little scary because a lot of the cards negate each other like grove and magus. My thinking is maybe it is better to include blood moons too to guarantee you hit 1 moon and maybe have something that kills both like chaos warp or one of those red 1 cc spells. Birds of paradise may also be a good option to include with or instead of mox diamond and ancient tomb is nice as well. With your specific list I think you could trim one or two safekeepers and if your moon effects are stopping wastelands then you may not need so may pithing needles either. Curious if you got mana screwed any games holding spells could not cast or if you had hands with too many land search with the 4 maps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PeterSouth

Like when you were playing death and taxes, If they have wasteland out, can they kill your dark depths once you kill your magus? ...... Curious if you got mana screwed any games holding spells could not cast or if you had hands with too many land search with the 4 maps.

---

When u get rid of the Moon and they have a Wasteland they can still waste the Depths in resp of the Dark Depths Trigger. I was flooded in 2 games, but had Punishing Fire at those points so the mana was very useful. I was screwed only once in the last game against RUG. He destroyed my Mox and countered all tutorspells so I died with only 2 lands in play. I never had to many tutorspells, they're always useful and the map can be used under a Moon without green mana so it's very useful. Birds are also not very useful, because they die to every removal spell and u don't wanna sac Lands to protect them. The thing with Punishing Fire and Magus is also it gives the deck more angles and more flexibility. The Fire was so awesome, would never cut it. If u wanna support Blood Moon instead of Magus I'd try out a blue list with Perilous Research.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Quentin Coldman

Yesterday I tried out something new I call "Bloody Depths", what uses the new interaction between Magus of the Moon and Dark Depths. Depths comes without counter under a Moon and when you get rid of the Moon you have a Depths without counter and get a Marit Lage. Magus also wins very often by itself. The deck seems very strong in the current meta, because u have a good matchup against Delver, Czech Pile, BUG, Elves. The combo matchup is very poor, but u can try to fix it with the sideboard. To kill ur own Magus I use Punishing Fire and Fling. Fling is also very nice with Marit Lage. For protection I played Sylvan Safekeeper, because the manabase can't support black anymore. I'm testing the deck now for a while and gave in a try yesterday at a 69 man tournament. I played the following list:

---

I've been working on several builds with Blood Moon as well. My two most promising builds are W/R and R/G. The W/R one plays like Red Prison with Chalice, Trinisphere, and Sorcerous Spyglass (mostly for Wasteland). The white gives you interesting ways to remove Blood Moon/Magus of the Moon, of which I'm testing Oblivion Ring, Leave // Chance, Brion Stoutarm (toss Magus and then toss Marit Lage), and Angelic Purge. Nahiri, the Harbinger is also a neat option to help filter, remove Moon effects, and provide an alternate wincon with a solo Emrakul. White has great sideboard options too.

The R/G version plays both Burning and Living Wish alongside Chalice and spirit guides, while using Beast Within and Song of the Dryads to remove Moon effects. Beast Within is nice in that it gives you a 3/3 that can negate Edicts while Song of the Dryads provides an secondary combo with Thespian's Stage. Wish targets include Depths, Stage, Magus, Reclamation Sage, Stone Rain (Wasteland, Karakas, or their basic land), Ramunap Excavator, Hull Breach, and Fiery Confluence.

Not sure which I'll test first, but if any show promise I'll likely create a separate thread since it's a bit far off from the traditional Turbo Depths build.