4 Card Blind

I don't have any major feelings either way on letting silkster make the swap, but it sounds like that's not something thats been allowed in the past, so maybe we stick with that for consistency's sake.

--

1. Asthereal (TO): Leyline of Anticipation, Lotus Petal, Lotus Petal, Grand Arbiter Augustin IV
Everything I'm doing here lines up well. WW

6-0

2. alphastryk: Leyline of the Void, Leyline of Singularity, Karakas, Tethered Griffin
This is me!

3. Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Karakas, Eternal Scourge, Ratchet Bomb
Eternal Scourge is good tech. Ratchet bomb eventually removes my leylines, which also kills the Griffin, and then the scourge kills me. LL

0-6

4. Tylert: City of traitors, Sphere of resistance, Heap doll, Chronomaton
OTP: I play my guy before the sphere hits, and Karakas bounces any guy you play forever. W
OTD: You play your sphere out first, so I'm never able to play my guy. Karakas still bounces your guys forever though, so I think this is a draw. D

4-1


5. H: Lotus Petal, Lotus Petal, Crack The Earth, Legion's Landing
OTP: I play out my Griffin, the pass. You lose one petal into the Leyline to cast Crack the Earth, and I think I just sacrifice the Leyline of Singularity since I'll win the race vs 1 token even with it having lifelink. W
OTD: You get to Crack the Earth when I only have 2 Leylines in play, and racing is much harder since your tokens have lifelink. If I sacrifice The Void, I lose both to Crack the Earth anyways, so I still sacrifice my Singularity to keep The Void. Being On the draw however, I can't race 1 token due to lifelink so I have to leave my larger creature on blocking duty. D

4-1

6. Moosedog: Mage-ring network, City of traitors, Chronomaton, Walking ballista
I guess this comes down to whether you can make a big enough Ballista to shoot me before my Griffin attacks take care of you. (If you ever try to shoot the griffin, I just bounce it). OTP Griffin kills on my turn 11, and OTD on my turn 12. To make a big enough Ballista, you have to charge the network 38 times I think, which is always too slow. WW

6-0

7. Silkster: Leyline of Singularity, Karakas, Cenn's Tactician (or Clergy of the Holy Nimbus), Leyline of the Void

The "mirror"! We stare at each other a lot, and compare mediocre white one-drops. DD

2-2

8. FTW: City of Traitors, Chalice of the Void, Steel Overseer, Steel Overseer

OTP: I play out by guy before you get Chalice down, and Karakas takes care of your guys. W
OTD: You get a Chalice before I can play Griffin, so I can never get Griffin. Karakas still answers your guys though. D

4-1

9. GoblinSmashmaster: Leyline of the Void, Swamp, Duress, Chronomaton

Duress and Leyline don't interact with Tethered Griffin and Karakas, so I'm able to keep my guy and bounce yours. WW

6-0

Total: 32


Oh - and for fun, here's my "big mana" deck instead of the metagame deck I ended up playing:
Lotus Petal, Phyrexian Walker, Culling the Weak, Myojin of Night's Reach

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GoblinSmashmaster

I made the same mistake before and didn't get to change my deck. The reply is confusing.

---

Ugh, I'm really frustrated on your behalf. What a frustrating welcome to a new website.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silkster

Ugh, I'm really frustrated on your behalf. What a frustrating welcome to a new website.

---

The entire PM system is super confusing for sure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alphastryk

The entire PM system is super confusing for sure.

---

It is.
And to make matters worse, you only get a maximum of 100 messages in your inbox.
Which for me makes organizing this whole thing a little more complicated, because my inbox fills up really fast.

3. Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Karakas, Eternal Scourge, Ratchet Bomb

1. Asthereal (TO): Leyline of Anticipation, Lotus Petal, Lotus Petal, Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WW
2. alphastryk: Leyline of the Void, Leyline of Singularity, Karakas, Tethered Griffin WW - Funny how all the Leylines cost 4 mana, right?
4. Tylert: City of traitors, Sphere of resistance, Heap doll, Chronomaton LL - I only get to cast Scourge once, which is not good enough when Heap Doll exiles my Ratchet Bomb.
5. H: Lotus Petal, Lotus Petal, Crack The Earth, Legion's Landing LL - This is rather clever, although I think you either forgot about Doomed Traveler or just wanted lifelink.
6. Moosedog: Mage-ring network, City of traitors, Chronomaton, Walking ballista WL - silkster has the analysis below.
7. Silkster: Leyline of Singularity, Karakas, Clergy of the Holy Nimbus, Leyline of the Void WW - Sorry about your PM snafu.
8. FTW: City of Traitors, Chalice of the Void, Steel Overseer, Steel Overseer WW - I did matchup math! If I'm lucky, I did correct matchup math!
9. GoblinSmashmaster: Leyline of the Void, Swamp, Duress, Chronomaton DD - Eternal Scourge is eternal, regardless of Leyline, so it blocks Chronomaton forever.

9w2d = 29 points

Math vs. FTW:

Because of Ratchet Bomb, FTW will only ever cast one Steel Overseer per destruction activation. Chalice is a blank, so he never casts that.

F: City, Overseer 1
W: Karakas
F: Overseer 1 @ 2/2 (these are all end of my turn, putting them on his turn for consistency)
W: City, Eternal Scourge
F: Overseer 1 @ 3/3
W: Ratchet Bomb, add a counter, attack w/Scourge (F @ 17)

Trading Overseer with Scourge hurts him more than it hurts me, because I just recast Eternal Scourge and he has one less Overseer that I have to Ratchet Bomb away. In this format, Eternal Scourge definitely lives up to its name.

F: He wins if he keeps Scourge at bay, so Overseer 1 @ 4/4
W: Ratchet Bomb @ 2 counters
F: Do nothing
W: Activate Ratchet Bomb, recast Ratchet Bomb, add a counter, attack w/Scourge (F @ 14)
F: Overseer 2
W: Ratchet Bomb @ 2 counters, attack w/Scourge (F @ 11)
F: Overseer 2 @ 2/2
W: attack w/Scourge (F @ 8)
F: Overseer 2 @ 3/3
W: attack w/Scourge (F @ 5)

Same problem here, Scourge is eternal.

F: Overseer 2 @ 4/4
W: Activate Ratchet Bomb, attack w/Scourge (F @ 2)

Not looking good for FTW...

1. Asthereal (TO): Leyline of Anticipation, Lotus Petal, Lotus Petal, Grand Arbiter Augustin IV
2. alphastryk: Leyline of the Void, Leyline of Singularity, Karakas, Tethered Griffin
3. Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Karakas, Eternal Scourge, Ratchet Bomb
4. Tylert: City of traitors, Sphere of resistance, Heap doll, Chronomaton
5. H: Lotus Petal, Lotus Petal, Crack The Earth, Legion's Landing
6. Moosedog: Mage-ring network, City of traitors, Chronomaton, Walking ballista
7. Silkster: Leyline of Singularity, Karakas, Clergy of the Holy Nimbus, Leyline of the Void
8. FTW: City of Traitors, Chalice of the Void, Steel Overseer, Steel Overseer
9. GoblinSmashmaster: Leyline of the Void, Swamp, Duress, Chronomaton

1. Asthereal: I can cast chronomaton through grand arbiter. 6-0 --> 6
2. Alphastryk: OTP, i can cast Sphere T1 and draw (I can cast only 1 guy per turn), OTD, you can cast griffin before Sphere and bounce one of my guy per turn so i can't race. 1-4 --> 7
3. Wrath of Pie: HEap doll + chronomaton has to be taken care of because it can race scourge. However, if you don't take care of sphere, you will never be able to cast scourge. Therefore I don't see a situation where you can win this (Although timing of ratchet's bomb sacrifce and who's on the play / draw might have an impact). 6-0 --> 13
4. Me.
5. H: Chronomaton will win this matchup.I have enough permanents to not sac it. 6-0 --> 19
6. Moosedog: I don't see how I can win this. every 5 turns, you add a counter on ballista, so you can block chrono and eventually kill it if I attack. If I don't attack, then I die to ballista. 0-6 --> 19
7. Silkster: OTP: I draw easily with SPhere. OTD: You attack first. I can't block because i'll loose one guy. it's a loss because I do as much damage as you. 1-4 --> 20
8. FTW: OTP Sphere of resistance wins. OTD you can't play chalice first cause it will lead to a draw, If you play overseer first, You win because because i'll be a turn or two late to be able to block with heap doll and kill you on the return with chronomaton. 3-3 --> 23
9. GoblinSmashmaster: OTP i win with sphere, OTD You win with Duress. 3-3 --> 26

Total 26. Not the most interresting round. I came to the conclusion that if a card can be cast twice, then just play a card that makes things uncastable. Did not work so well :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moosedog

Yep, makes sense. I just over thought it because I figured why wouldn't everyone just play Leyline then.

---

I came to the same conclusion. I wanted to do something more interesting, but I saw no way around not playing Leyline, so I did. I realized half way through the week that I would have liked Leyline of the Void to have been banned this round, but it was too late.

I still think Leyline of Singularity wants a more general ban.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie

3. Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Karakas, Eternal Scourge, Ratchet Bomb

6. Moosedog: Mage-ring network, City of traitors, Chronomaton, Walking ballista DD - Ratchet away Ballista twice, then Eternal Scourge blocks Chronomaton forever.
7. Silkster: Leyline of Singularity, Karakas, Clergy of the Holy Nimbus, Leyline of the Void WW - Sorry about your PM snafu.

---

I think Moosedog holds on to the Ballista until it can be cast for x=20. If you bomb away the Chronomaton, the question is how quickly Moosedog can get a Ballista to 4. I started this post thinking you would lose, but Scourge is quite fast.

Ballista on 4 requires 8 mana, which requires 6 counters and untapped lands, so it will happen on turn 8. Chronomaton can't afford to block because that would free up the Ratchet Bomb to undo the 8 mana of work. Since the Scourge also kills on turn 8. Moosedog can pump Chronomaton while gaining Mage-Ring Network charge counters, so the Bomb does have to kill it. Looks like WL.

Thanks for the condolences.

8. FTW: City of Traitors, Chalice of the Void, Steel Overseer, Steel Overseer


1. Asthereal (TO): You lock me out on turn 0! LL 0-6
2. alphastryk: OTP Chalice @ 1 stops Griffin, but I have no out to Karakas. DL 1-4
3. Wrath of Pie: Scourge hits me 7 times before I can make the 3rd 4/4 LL 0-6
4. Tylert: OTP I play Overseer. If you play Sphere, Overseer outgrows Chronomaton and wins. If you play Chronomaton, I play a 2nd Overseer and win. OTD Sphere locks me out. WL 3-3
5. H: OTP Chalice @ 0 locks you out. OTD you can play Legion's Landing, but Chalice @ 1 shuts off Crack. WW 6-0
6. Moosedog: Double Overseers outgrow Ballista + Mage-Ring, so I think your best line is to play Ballista X=1 to trade with 1/1 Overseers. OTP Chalice @ 1 stops Chronomaton. You can stop 2 Overseers, but then I flash them back. OTD you play Chronomaton first to beat Chalice. I play Overseer. You Ballista X=1 to trade and grow to 2/2. I play Overseer. You flashback Ballista X=1 to trade and grow to 3/3. I flashback Overseer. You grow to 4/4. I flashback Overseer and make both 2/2s. After that I should easily race Chronomaton. WW 6-0
7. Silkster: OTP Chalice @ 1 stops either Cenn or Clergy, but I have no out to Karakas. DL 1-4
9. GoblinSmashmaster: OTP Chalice @ 1 stops your deck. OTD you can Duress Chalice or just play Chronomaton, but double Overseer outgrows it. WW 6-0

23 points (7 wins, 2 draws, 5 losses)

Almost played Chrono over the 2nd Overseer to beat Spheres. It would have mattered vs Sphere effects and Ratchet Bomb.
I expected to see more Lotus Petal decks or Leyline of the Void decks and planned to beat those, but didn't plan for Leyline of Singularity.

@alphastryk: You have us down as WL, but you should have WD. I can stop Griffin but can't turn anything sideways.

@silkster: It's a frustrating PM system from an old website, unfortunately. I think I replied to myself too many rounds ago, but it was just to fix a typo and luckily caught the mistake because I've been on this site a while. The inbox limit is also annoying. It counts "Sent" messages too, so I had to go delete my old 4CB submissions before I could send more. If you want to send a 2nd message and quote the original, it's easier to use Forward. You could also just send a brand new message.

Edit: Wrath's math looks correct. He gets enough hits in before I can replay the Overseers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silkster

I came to the same conclusion. I wanted to do something more interesting, but I saw no way around not playing Leyline, so I did. I realized half way through the week that I would have liked Leyline of the Void to have been banned this round, but it was too late.

I still think Leyline of Singularity wants a more general ban.

---

Not disagreeing with this, it is the best removal in the format after all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silkster

I came to the same conclusion. I wanted to do something more interesting, but I saw no way around not playing Leyline, so I did. I realized half way through the week that I would have liked Leyline of the Void to have been banned this round, but it was too late.

I still think Leyline of Singularity wants a more general ban.

---

The other deck I considered was a Hate-Hate deck (in case of many Leylines):
Razorverge Thicket, Nature's Claim, Path to Exile, Cenn's Tactician

First Claim kills Leyline of the Void, then it can flashback to kill a 2nd Leyline or artifact. Against decks with no Leylines, double Path still exiles 2 threats preventing flashback.

It would have WW against the Leyline decks and WW against creatures, but LL to Sphere decks, DD to Scourge, DD to Crack, LL to Chalice, and LL to unfair decks.

Leyline-Karakas is beatable. Some of us just didn't play around it this round, busy playing around graveyard tricks. Pithing Needle is another underused card that polices Karakas as well as the vertical growth creatures.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silkster

...
I still think Leyline of Singularity wants a more general ban.
....

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie

Not disagreeing with this, it is the best removal in the format after all.

---

I agree, I keep coming back to it because it is such a low investment and effective answer to the format, definitely seem to hurt diversity. Maybe less so in this format given the other rules changing each round?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silkster

I think Moosedog holds on to the Ballista until it can be cast for x=20. If you bomb away the Chronomaton, the question is how quickly Moosedog can get a Ballista to 4. I started this post thinking you would lose, but Scourge is quite fast.

Ballista on 4 requires 8 mana, which requires 6 counters and untapped lands, so it will happen on turn 8. Chronomaton can't afford to block because that would free up the Ratchet Bomb to undo the 8 mana of work. Since the Scourge also kills on turn 8. Moosedog can pump Chronomaton while gaining Mage-Ring Network charge counters, so the Bomb does have to kill it. Looks like WL.

---

That probably explains the Ballista inclusion and makes much more sense than whatever I was thinking.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FTW

Leyline-Karakas is beatable. Some of us just didn't play around it this round, busy playing around graveyard tricks. Pithing Needle is another underused card that polices Karakas as well as the vertical growth creatures.

---

Ah! My heap doll anti graveyard tech was a last minute replacement for pithing needle :(

Just thought of another card that would have been a pretty interesting include this last round - Faerie Macabre. Its graveyard hate, and then can be cast as a creature afterwards.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alphastryk

Just thought of another card that would have been a pretty interesting include this last round - Faerie Macabre. Its graveyard hate, and then can be cast as a creature afterwards.

---

I really like that. It's only soft graveyard hate, though. It wouldn't stop Asthereal from casting Augustin even without the Leyline of Anticipation, cause he wouldn't give you priority with either Petal in the yard. Leyline of the Void was just so powerful, the only way I wouldn't play it was if I could convince myself that everyone would have such fear of it that no one would even try to use the graveyard, and I just couldn't talk myself into that.

Man, I finally got a read on the format, and I screwed up the submission. Even my second place deck (which I hope to use in a future round) was getting 30 points this week. My third choice deck was Swamp, Duress, Chronomaton, Leyline of the Void.

Now I need to move on. For the first time, a bunch of ideas came quickly, and for the first time, there's a frontrunner. Now to figure out what I'm missing. I'm excited for next Wednesday. Thankfully, I can't lose to Karakas this week.

I’m also in the singularity is getting old camp, but agree with each round being so different a ban might not be warranted.
Faerie Macabre would have been a cool idea.

1.Asthereal (TO): Leyline of Anticipation, Lotus Petal, Lotus Petal, Grand Arbiter Augustin IV
Props for not using those other leylines. I still take it though. 6-0

2. alphastryk: Leyline of the Void, Leyline of Singularity, Karakas, Tethered Griffin
I can charge up the mage while pestering with the chronomaton buying me time. I’m going to think about this one more, but I’m probably being optimistic. EDIT: 0-6

3. Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Karakas, Eternal Scourge, Ratchet Bomb
This is interesting. Thanks silkster for analysis 3-3

4. Tylert: City of traitors, Sphere of resistance, Heap doll, Chronomaton
6-0

5. H: Lotus Petal, Lotus Petal, Crack The Earth, Legion's Landing
Will think this through. EDIT: OTD it is harder but I still have the city and can play all my guys. 6-0

6. Moosedog: Mage-ring network, City of traitors, Chronomaton, Walking ballista
ME

7. Silkster: Leyline of Singularity, Karakas, Clergy of the Holy Nimbus, Leyline of the Void
6-0

8. FTW: City of Traitors, Chalice of the Void, Steel Overseer, Steel Overseer
Nice list. Agree with your breakdown. 0-6

9. GoblinSmashmaster: Leyline of the Void, Swamp, Duress, Chronomaton
6-0

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FTW

@alphastryk: You have us down as WL, but you should have WD. I can stop Griffin but can't turn anything sideways.

---

You're right, updating my post now. I somehow wrote out the right logic but the wrong result whoops.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moosedog

2. alphastryk: Leyline of the Void, Leyline of Singularity, Karakas, Tethered Griffin
I can charge up the mage while pestering with the chronomaton buying me time. I’m going to think about this one more, but I’m probably being optimistic.

---

You need 8 mana to kill griffin without ballista dying. means you need 1 turn to play network, then 8 turns to charge it and one to play it. So it looks as if you loose on the draw and win on the play (To be confirmed, i'm a bit drunk tonight :) )

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tylert

You need 8 mana to kill griffin without ballista dying. means you need 1 turn to play network, then 8 turns to charge it and one to play it. So it looks as if you loose on the draw and win on the play (To be confirmed, i'm a bit drunk tonight :) )

---

I *think* that it doesn't matter how big the Ballista is to kill the Griffin, I can always bounce my own Griffin in response to Ballista being cast to be safe. I could very well be missing something though.

OTP: M. Mage – Chronomaton.
A. Karakas bounce chronomaton.
M. city, play chronomaton and charge mage.
A. you have to decide to bounce my guy or play griffin. If you bounce my guy indefinitely I’ll make a 20/20 ballista/ So let’s say you play griffin, pass.
M-charge mage (2)
A. Attack with griffin , 18 bounce chronomaton.
M. charge mage, (3) play chronomaton.
A. Attack griffin, M16, bounce chrono. I won’t play a 3/3 ballista b/c cannot recur b/c of void.
M. charge mage, (4) play chronomaton.
A Attack griffin, M14, bounce chrono.
M-charge mage, (5) play chronomaton.
A- Attack griffin, M12, bounce chrono.
M-charge mage, (6) play chronomaton.
A- Attack griffin, M10, now you don’t bounce chrono to save your griffin.
M- Attack chronomaton A19. 4/4 Ballista. You Bounce ballista, so I kill griffin.
A-Play griffin.
M-attack chronomaton A18. Charge mage. (1)
A-attack griffin M8.
M-bounce chrono. Play chrono and charge mage (2)
A-attack griffin M6
M-bounce chrono. Play chrono and charge mage (3)
A-attack griffin M4.
M-bounce chrono. Play chrono and charge mage (4)
A-attack griffin M2.
M-Play 3/3 ballista. And when I go to shot you bounce, and replay. ☹
Not sure if there is another line, but looks like you’re right. LL