Yes he can abrupt the sphere, but not the lab man.
U cant Dodge abrupt, but u can Dodge, Path, bolt, Swords, decay on maniac, and so on.
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Yes he can abrupt the sphere, but not the lab man.
U cant Dodge abrupt, but u can Dodge, Path, bolt, Swords, decay on maniac, and so on.
The pile is IU - LED - Sphere - Probe - ManiacQuote:
Originally Posted by bennotsi
While it doesnt get around decay on sphere thy still need a second removal spell to kill it. It does get around Stifle though.
Don't think so. That's why I stated, I don't feel the need for the Sphere in the deck, either. I'm just gonna cut the Chain of Vapor from your list, put Lab Man into it and go slam some games.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennotsi
Alright thanks a lot! I'd like to hear how it turns out!Quote:
Originally Posted by flrn
Has anyone here tried running Thought Scour + Unearth to be able to play around Spell Snare game 1 and times when your opponent runs snares and you don't want to side out Wishes. I'm not too familiar with Unearth Piles, I do know the basic piles with it, and I would like too know from someone who is if it has been good.
BS - TS - LM - CS - Unearth
That can win through Stifle, Snare and a removal spell for 2UUB or just stifle and snare for UUB
Your question is a bit unclear, do you want this only for game 1 or would you want to add Thought Scour and Unearth as sideboard cards to deal with Snares? It is of course a trade-off between being able to play around Spell Snare and being vulnerable to graveyard hate. Personally, I'm much more worried about opening up to graveyard hate than Spell Snares which aren't all that common - bordering not being played at all - in my area.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mhenlo
I'd have them for game 1, I'd probably cut a Ponder for a thought Scour and move CoV to the SB I'm not too worried about graveyard hate because you can make a LM pile that doesn't use the graveyard and doomsday is also fairly resilient to Graveyard hate. I'm just not sure if the piles it allows are worth the dead card you can draw. Although It isn't completely dead since you can cycle it.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennotsi
Edit: at my LGS all the delver players run Snares and siding in Infernal Contract isn't good against delver.
Meditate is 1 good card vs 2 mediocre/bad cards in Unearth + Thought Scour. The Lab Man plan is also not very good in general against Delver, as their removal isn't really sided out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mhenlo
I took this to a small local tourney (some brews/modern decks, but many tier decks) and went 5-0. I probably drew better than I played - I'm not too experienced with it - but thought I'd post anyway:
2 U Sea
1 Volc
1 Badlands
1 Trop
2 Island
1 Swamp
4 Delta
4 Tarn
1 Mire
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Probe
4 SDT
1 Chromatic Sphere
1 Ideas Unbound
4 Rit
1 Rain of Filth
4 LED
1 Petal
3 Durress
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Doomsday
4 Burning Wish
1 Lab Maniac
Board:
1 Doomsday
1 Tendrils
1 Infernal Contract
1 Lotus Petal
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Xantid Swarm
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Karakas
1 Massacre
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Meltdown
1 Thoughtseize
I played Ur Stasis (2-0), Elves (2-1), High Tide (2-0), Miracles (2-0), and Burn (2-1)
Notes (which largely echo emidln et al.):
-Time Spiral's niche uses of building lots of storm for >20 or for PTT piles are both covered by Lab Maniac, and my risk of botching the pile and decing myself is high enough that I cut it.
-Delgue in the board (over 2nd Massacre), combined with Lab Maniac, cover manny of the problem targets for CoV (Teeg, Leyline), so I moved it to the board, since, in a pile, it allows for piles with more constraints than other removal options.
-Petal was the last slot in the board, expecting reanimator/storm/belcher/oops. I considered Leyline, a counter, and surgical extraction (possibly making room for a 2nd), but went with petal in hopes of being slightly faster post-board.
-I almost never won with Lab Maniac because it was better. Most games I simply had enough and was safe, and, since I was testing that and thought through that pile first, made it and won without thinking through which tendrils pile would have worked, but confident that I'd have enough storm. I think I went for a now-lab-man-will-shine ptt pile once on t2 against a weak elves board after making him discard, but he drew NO and hit me for exactsies. Almost none of my match-ups provided meaningful storm hate for me to beat with the Lab Man. That said, it was nice to, e.g., have enough mana/draw and finally find business and only need to verify that a Lab Man pile works, rather than keeping track of storm/mana and building a Tendrils pile (which obviously reflects more on my inexperience than actual advantages of Lab Man, but I'd imagine that most people interested in DDFT do not have the endurance to play through a large tournament without losing focus and dropping some things; the simple shortcut helps).
-Not sure how I would put Lab Man/Sphere in maindeck/board if playing again. Would definitely not hesitate to board both out for matches like fast combo where I could need slots and Tendrils is probably fine (and often more flexible, particularly as drawing into your pile with SDT is not easy).
Would this be the thread to discuss a deck like http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=11277&iddeck=82364
I'm very interested in starting to play doomsday
Not exactly. This is a Doomsday storm combo thread, focusing on playing preemptive protection like discard spells or Silence in combination with Lion's Eye Diamond and no Force of Wills. I think almost everyone in here will agree the mental note/unearth kill is pretty bad. That said, if you have any questions we'd probably be able to answer them and should you be interested in learning the better version of the deck you're in the right place :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsey
How did the slamming go so far? I'm very interested to hear your experience with the list. I've made the same change and played in a small tournament with it, but I'm still not sure on whether I like Lab Man better than Chain of Vapor for the maindeck.Quote:
Originally Posted by flrn
I was also thinking that with the printing of Void Snare I might just play the fourth Burning Wish main with Void Snare in the side to still have outs game 1 and board into something better like Lab Man or Chain of Vapor for game 2.
I just picked up UBR/g DDFT so bare with me if any of these are dumb questions:
1. Aside from the increased likelihood to grab a basic Island and pretending to be miracle control (t1 tarn->basic island->top), are there any other benefits of running Scalding Tarn/Tropical Island over Bloodstained Mire/Bayou? Bloodstained Mire can still grab Volcanic Island/Badlands for Burning Wish or Bayou for Abrupt Decay/Xantid Swarm. Is the having the basic Island more important for t1 cantrips than basic Swamp for t1 discard? Moreover, Bloodstained Mire can still find Underground Sea or Volcanic Island for BS to hide from discard.
2. When fighting against canonist, is there a non-maniac pile that can win? Are Burning Wish, Massacre, and CoV the only outs?
1. Green is most important for Decay = BG, so Bayou is not ideal.Quote:
Originally Posted by nudon
2. Pass the turn piles with those cards, if you need them in the pile, but it's far more likely that you would Wish then start your combo turn with Massacre. The PTT scenario means you have BBB in play from lands/artifacts, can survive the swingback at half-life, and have the resources in play/hand to combo off with a 4 card pile after drawing into your spell. Maniac doesn't really make this better.
Thanks for the quick response.Quote:
Originally Posted by anwei
1. Both would be used to make green in this case. Is the blue mana just better overall?
2. I was afraid of this but makes sense.
Yes having blue is very important. You don't want too many lands that don't produce blue mana. Bayou is probably fine if you aren't running Badlands already. The thing is, you don't want to draw your starting 7 with no blue mana producing lands too often.Quote:
Originally Posted by nudon
Basic Island is important enough that you want all of your fetches to be able to get it, I would say. It'd be pretty noticeable for you if you played against a few opponents packing Wastelands and opened on a few hands with Bloodstained Mires in them. Also, Bayou is far worse than Tropical Island. Blue mana is far more important than black mana in this deck, and since you will already need another black mana anyway to cast Abrupt Decay, having your Green sources add black mana instead of anything else adds no additional value to them. What card would you be cutting for the Bayou?
Concerning the Canonist, think of it this way: You need to craft a pile that can win the game and deal with/ignore Canonist at the same time. Casting Doomsday with Canonist in play means you're finished for the turn barring some spells that don't deal with a Canonist, so you're basically limited to pass the turn piles.
For reference, I used EmidIn's list from December and Jonathan White's list from SCG Oakland as a starting point.
Some of the fetch configurations I had been wondering about include:
1. 4 deltas + 5 blue fetch
2. 4 deltas + 5 black fetch (would require bayou instead of tropical island)
3. 4 deltas + mix of tarn/bloodstained mire
I know most people on this thread max out on blue fetches but it seemed Jonathan's list did fine. My only concern about EmidIn's configuration is that it doesn't have a Badlands. While goldfishing, I noticed a need to fetch out Badlands on turn 2 for burning wish (DR + LED + ponder in hand, basic island + top in play after mull to 6). Perhaps this was too aggressive a play. Regardless, I like anwei's configuration a few posts earlier with 4 tarn and 1 mire since it can fetch the badlands. However, there is the drawback of not being able to fetch tropical island with the mire. What do you guys value more? Mire + Badlands, 5th blue fetch, or something else? Thanks in advance!
I certainly haven't gotten as far in any tournament as the SCG list has, but my opinion is that the list did well despite the manabase, not because it was the best choice. In this way, you could say that it isn't the hugest deal what land configuration you play, but if you're asking for advice it seems that many people will tell you not to play less than 8 blue fetches, and Storm decks are the decks where you don't want shaky mana. My personal experience with the deck has been that I don't need black mana until the last second most of the time, so I don't care to place any priority on it in my manabase other than having enough black mana producing lands to have a chance of casting Doomsday with no rituals.Quote:
Originally Posted by nudon
If your own testing has found you wanting a Badlands, you should include one. Not everyone plays the deck the same way so your situation might just be different. I didn't have a Badlands for the longest time, but I included one because I wanted to play Pulverize for a time and just never switched it out. I ended up keeping Badlands in for hands that could cast discard early, then Burning Wish for Doomsday with LED and Lotus Petal in play for a pass the turn Maniac kill. Personally, I'm staying at 8 fetches because I think that in a Maniac deck you want more permanent mana sources you can lay after casting Doomsday and passing the turn (A hand with multiple fetches is slowed down because you don't often want to crack your fetches for lands after casting Doomsday). My land configuration is 2 Island, 1 Swamp, 1 Badlands, 2 Underground Sea, 2 Volcanic Island, 4 Deltas and 4 Tarns. I'm playing a third Lotus Petal over the 17th land to try to increase the number of early wins with Maniac, and the land I cut was my second Swamp because I think blue mana is critical--especially with Maniac; your post-Doomsday turn requires double blue for Ideas Unbound. Badlands is over the third Underground Sea because there were enough situations where having access to one was better than not.
Well, I played Doomsday at SCG Columbus this past Sunday and cashed, ending up in 58th place out of I think over 450, so I thought I’d write up a report.
It’s been quite awhile since I’ve had this deck together and done any testing with it, but I’ve been itching to play it lately, especially since I have it completely foiled out now, so I threw it together at 3 in the morning the night before when I got home from the bars. Here’s the list I ended up slinging:
3 Doomsday
4 Burning Wish
1 Idea’s Unbound
1 Laboratory Maniac
1 Chromatic Sphere
4 Sensei’s Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Duress
4 Dark Ritual
1 Rain of Filth
4 Lion’s Eye Diamond
2 Lotus Petal
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
2 Island
1 Swamp
Sideboard:
1 Tropical Island
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Xantid Swarm
1 Karakas
1 Doomsday
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Edge of Autumn
2 Massacre
1 Thoughtseize
1 Infernal Contract
1 Chain of Vapor
It was only a 20 minute drive to get downtown, so naturally I barely make it in time and am super hungover. Oh well, Excedrin and coffee make up for it, so here we go.
Round 1: John Good-Dredge
Game 1: He’s on the play and starts with a careful study. Well, I guess the cat’s out of the bag. He ends up getting there on turn 3 when I had the win setup for my next turn, how unfortunate.
Game 2: I have Probe and Therapy, I decide to Probe first instead of just blind naming LED, but he had it and I named it anyway. He had a ballin hand that probably would’ve killed me on his turn two if not one, but after stripping the LED I won on turn two or three.
Game 3: He leads off land, LED, Faithless, and ends up hitting Moeba two and three on his last two dredges with two bridges, Zealot, and two Bridges already in the graveyard. Well shit, got turn one’d. Well, that is the game we play I guess. Nice guy to play against, though.
0-1
Round 2: Alex-Jund Loam
Game 1: He leads Bloodstained Mire pass. I blind name Abrupt Decay and hit one also seeing Taiga, Forgotten Cave, Wasteland, Diabolic Edict, and Chalice. He drops Chalice on turn two and things aren’t looking good since my hand has a bunch of dig spells. He doesn’t have a threat and hasn’t hit a Loam, so I have all the time in the world. He eventually gets out a Countryside Crusher and then a Bob the turn after, so now I need to go. I ended up getting up to my sixth land on my last turn I could go off, so here we go. I counted it up and I could only deal 18 damage to get him to 1, but I had no other choice so I went for it to gain life. Fetched my 3 lands, played 2 LED’s, Probe for free storm, Wish for Edge of Autumn, Doomsday building IU, LED, LED, BW, DD. He’s now at 1 and I’m at 23. I pass AND HE DOESN’T EDICT HIS BOB! He realizes it after he started his turn and tries to do it in his upkeep and I tell him he can’t. Flips a Goyf and we’re off to game 2!
Game 2: I mull to six and my pants get real tight when I see Badlands, LED, Dark Rit, Doomsday, Probe, and an Abrupt Decay. I keep and pray he doesn’t have the Chalice. He plays a land, cycles forgotten cave, plays Mox Diamond, and cycles another before passing the turn. At this point, my erection has shot through the table as I easily turn one him.
1-1
Round 3: Kevin Huang-ANT
Game 1: I just got done watching him play a random game against my friend Jeff Rasmussen, so I think I know what he’s on and it’s confirmed when I see the same pimped out cards. He Ponders and Probes and sees what I’m on. He knows how the deck plays. I probe and Therapy his Therapy leaving him with Dark Rit, Petal, and Delta. He doesn’t draw the Tutor and I win on my next turn.
Game 2 and 3: I don’t remember the specifics between these games, but I lost them both. At one point, I Therapy his leaving him with a hand full of rituals and then proceed to cut him into the Tutor. Awesome. Fun guy to play against and he was pretty good with the deck.
1-2
Round 4: Alex Poling-RU Trinket Control
Game 1: I Therapied him fairly early in the game hitting his FoW and seeing Trinket Mage, Brainstorm, 2 Bolts, and lands. Interesting deck. I then proceeded to Tendrils him in the face.
Game 2: He got out a Clique on my third draw step and then a Trinket Mage for Pithing Needle soon after and my life total resembles that until 0.
Game 3: He has all of the counters this game. I think I dealt with 2 Forces, 2 or 3 counterspells, and then when I try to go off because his Jace is about to ultimate, my Doomsday gets Pierced. This Pierce was super unfortunate because I had top in play for my draw spell and after paying two only had two more mana available so by by Tendrils plan. I build something wacky in desperation with Lab Man on top so I could draw into it with top when he tried to exile my library with Jace. I ended up doing this and getting it into play, but with no draw spell left it was all for naught since he could just bounce it with Jace. Bummer.
1-3
Getting hungry and considered dropping, but decided to stay in til I got another loss. I also traded with SCG to get a Time Walk and Mox Ruby between rounds here, so I guess my spirits were high from that as well. Powering up to win out!
Round 5: Kyle Halbison-Deathblade
Game 1: I get Thoughtseized and he gets out a Stoneforge to grab SoFI. I Therapy naming FoW and see that he’s super flooded. I take one hit before jamming the Doomsday and finding out that he had only drawn into more land.
Game 2: He Thoughtseizes me and gets out a Deathrite, then I start taking a little damage. I had to cast Ideas Unbound to get it out of my hand since I didn’t have enough mana to go off with it in my hand. I Therapy him taking Abrupt Decay, leaving StP and a land. I don’t have a draw spell, so I go for it with the intention of making the Lab Man Sphere pile. He Deathrites in response and I get super lucky since he takes the BW that he discarded earlier instead of the IU. Ya, that’s why we play a deck that people don’t know much about. I get there next turn. Sphere is earning it’s stripes.
2-3
Round 6: Ian Marcum-URW Delver
Game 1: He draws a sideboard Flusterstorm and is honest about it and takes a game 1 loss. He saw Island Top, which he countered, and REALLY thinks I’m on Counterbalance.
Game 2: He gets out a Delver and Meddling Mages naming Conterbalance. lol Doesn’t matter, I can’t get there in time.
Game 3: He ends up having 2 Dazes for protection and I get enough mana to play through them and making him lose 28 life.
3-3
Round 7: Adam Johnson-UG Infect
Game 1: We know each other and he’s seeking revenge from the last time we played. I think I Duressed his Force and got there relatively quickly this game after taking 5 poison.
Game 2: He has a couple forces this time. I Abrupt Decay a guy to buy time, but I can’t find a discard spell before he Berserks.
Game 3: I get rid of his only Force and on my next turn build the pass the turn Lab Man pile with a Therapy in it since I already had an LED in play. He doesn’t draw the force or a way to kill me in time so I win the match.
4-3
Round 8: No show! Woo hoo!
5-3
Round 9: Chris Stagno-Jund Depths
Game 1: He leads Flooded Strand then Entombs on the end of my turn. For a second, I thought I was gonna get blown out by Reanimator, but he gets Raven’s Crime. He then proceeds to start discarding my hand and wasting my land before he Loams it all back. I’m in a bad spot. I BW for Doomsday knowing I have a short window to draw the last pieces, but I don’t before he empties my hand, which now had two Doomsdays. I slowly draw lands and build up my basics. He’s discarding everything I don’t play. It’s now about turn 20 and he’s attacking with a Nether Spirit and a Squee and questioning why I haven’t conceded yet. He has a Depths out, but I haven’t seen a Stage. I have amassed 2 LED’s and a Top. I need to find a Dark Rit and Doomsday at the same time with top since the rest of my lands didn’t stick around long, which I somehow actually do. I draw one for the turn and top into the other building the Lab Man pile. Passing the turn with 5 life left. He swings and puts me to 2. I get out Lab Man and all that good stuff and activate Sphere. He tries to bring back a Punishing Fire to kill it, but I inform him that he can’t respond to the Sphere and we’re off to game 2. Somehow I pulled that one out of my ass.
Game 2: He mulls and doesn’t have a Waste or Loam. He Thoughtseizes, but I think I got there on turn 3 anyway.
6-3
Round 10: Patrick Peters-Merfolk
Game 1: He leads off with Vial. I have a Probe and two Therapies, so I Probe seeing two Lords, Phantasmal Image, Fow, and Cavern. I Therapy away his Lords first, then on my next turn hit the Fow before winning shortly after.
Game 2: He leads Island pass. I Therapy naming Fow. I miss seeing Flusterstorm, Daze, Silvergill, Island, TNN, and Lord. Shit. I pass. He plays the Island and then the Silvergill. Holy shit he tapped out. I think I drew the ritual that gave me the win this turn. I played my second land and cast Rain of Filth. This was truly his only chance to Daze me since I was going to draw into my pile with a Ponder and I needed my second land to cast it, but he allows it to resolve. Dark Rit, LED, Doomsday, you know the drill.
7-3
Finally time to get out of there to get some food and drinks!
All in all, I had a lot of fun playing the deck and am glad I sleaved it up, even if I only ended up with $50. All of my losses went to game 3 and were really close. I’ll probably keep playing this deck for awhile now. On an odd note, I also ended up having a very hard time falling asleep that night because my mind kept racing through Doomsday scenarios and piles. I guess that’s what happens when you play the deck for 12 hours straight. lol
Edge of Autumn is a card I can't say I've seen too much of. How are you liking it?