[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)

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Originally Posted by Pelikanudo

@Emidlin:
@Koby:

Regarding this:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post678768

I've been testing the list and I've been thinking in SAndTell , Reanimator and BUG Strategies also,

I think this will be:
Reanimator:
+1 Duress
+3 Karakas
=
-4 gitaxian

SAndTell:
+1 Duress
+3 Karakas
=
-4 gitaxian

BUG Control: (Jaceliliana No Tarmo)
Maybe same as RUG?

BUG Tempo: (Tarmo Deathrite lately)
Maybe same as RUG?

- I don't think the second Tendrils base could be useful with Reanimator and SaTell
- The gitaxian I think is the card to take out on these match ups but really not sure, I just don't think -1 Grim could be a good idea and decreasing the Threat count. Maybe taking -2snaps as seems a slow card agains them leaving 2 gitaxian.
- The reality is that gitaxian seems to shine in these match ups so I don't think what to take, same is applicable to BUG.

Please give me your advice.

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Again.

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Originally Posted by Patrunkenphat7

Thanks for the input! If you were to board in 3 Carpet of Flowers against RUG Delver, what cards do you board out? Also, if you board in Abrupt Decays against Miracles for Counterbalance, what cards do you board out there?
Thanks

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Against RUG:
-2 Cabal Ritual
-1 Gitaxian Probe
-1 Ponder (otD) or -1 Gitaxian Probe (otP)
+3 Carpet of Flowers
+1 Empty the Warrens

yesterday I squeezed the Bayou into my maindeck, going down to only two basics. Felt okay, but not amazing. Gaining an additional sideboard slot obviously was huge, so I need to test this more.
Cause both Grims of our playgroup were used I had to play 2 Snapcaster Mages in its slot. I hate to play not optimal lists and this definitely was one. ANT wants and needs at least one Grim Tutor in there.

I'm running 2 preordain, 1 grim tutor, 0 BW main, and the following sb:

3 abrupt decay
4 dread of night
1 empty the warrens
2 grafdigger's cage
3 xantid swarm
2 city of traitors

The cities are against daze and spell pierce out of rug and similar. They feel good, but not amazing, and I wonder if I should change them. Maybe to Sensei's Divining Tops, as they are great vs black-based disruption as well as okay vs miracles and rug, all hard matchups (as emildn recommended a couple of pages back). Any thoughts?

Also, would you bring in the xantid swarms vs rug? I feel they keep most bolts in anyway, and they can be stifled.

Should I maybe try something like an IGG for when I just want extra speed?

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Originally Posted by Anselm

I'm running 2 preordain, 1 grim tutor, 0 BW main, and the following sb:

3 abrupt decay
4 dread of night
1 empty the warrens
2 grafdigger's cage
3 xantid swarm
2 city of traitors

The cities are against daze and spell pierce out of rug and similar. They feel good, but not amazing, and I wonder if I should change them. Maybe to Sensei's Divining Tops, as they are great vs black-based disruption as well as okay vs miracles and rug, all hard matchups (as emildn recommended a couple of pages back). Any thoughts?

Also, would you bring in the xantid swarms vs rug? I feel they keep most bolts in anyway, and they can be stifled.

Should I maybe try something like an IGG for when I just want extra speed?

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I would board in the swarms versus rug, that is a bolt that is not pointed at your head (probably giving you about an extra 1/2 turn on average since their deck is all 3's) and a stifle that is not used on a something else. even if they do stifle it you can sac it to cabal therapy to clear the rest of the way.

Currently running a UBR build with wish & Past in flames. Having trouble against Chalice Post board (mostly maverick)
Which card(s) do you recommend? I've been thinking about meltdown instead of the usual hurkyl's recall. Pulverize is too high cost(2 mountains are hard to come by). Been playing with explosives, but they're pretty useless.

Current Sideboard:
4 dread of night
3 Bounce spells (changing from 3 wipe away to 2 chain 1 echoing truth. CB Has been hiding its power level the last weeks in our local meta)
6 Wish targets - Empty, Duress, Tendrils, Iggy, Massacre, Infest
3 open slots - This is where i'd like something to deal with the chalice, maybe some other sweet wish target.

Dredge/Grave hate is abscent. But i don't feel the need of any.

Also, this is my first post on the source! Yay me!

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Originally Posted by ThomasDowd

I would board in the swarms versus rug, that is a bolt that is not pointed at your head (probably giving you about an extra 1/2 turn on average since their deck is all 3's) and a stifle that is not used on a something else. even if they do stifle it you can sac it to cabal therapy to clear the rest of the way.

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Is Stifle really a problem for you guys? The only valid target (except for fetchlands which you should be able to play around) is the storm trigger. And if we have enugh storm count to tendrils them out then there should either be a Duress in the yard (PiF) or revealed with AdN. In my experience, the biggest problem against RUG ist getting to play your combo, not actually winning from that spot.

Downsides of Xantid Swarm in my opinion:
-you HAVE to fetch Tropical/Bayou to play it, so you´ll most definitely have mana issues from then on
-Delver of Secrets
-Lightning Bolt
-Stifle
-it needs one turn to have an impact. During that time, our opponent has 8 Cantrips. 4 Stifle and 4 Bolt to get a solution

So no, I would not board the in.
You should only consider Swarms in matchups where you either want to punish you opponent for boarding out their removal or against decks that can´t handle them (Reanimator otP, Show & Tell Decks, Merfolk) already.

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Originally Posted by Zerog

Currently running a UBR build with wish & Past in flames. Having trouble against Chalice Post board (mostly maverick)
Which card(s) do you recommend? I've been thinking about meltdown instead of the usual hurkyl's recall. Pulverize is too high cost(2 mountains are hard to come by). Been playing with explosives, but they're pretty useless.

Current Sideboard:
4 dread of night
3 Bounce spells (changing from 3 wipe away to 2 chain 1 echoing truth. CB Has been hiding its power level the last weeks in our local meta)
6 Wish targets - Empty, Duress, Tendrils, Iggy, Massacre, Infest
3 open slots - This is where i'd like something to deal with the chalice, maybe some other sweet wish target.

Dredge/Grave hate is abscent. But i don't feel the need of any.

Also, this is my first post on the source! Yay me!

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This is where the abrupt decay splash works very well - I would recommend a green source and 3 abrupt decay over the wipe away - it deals with both chalice and counterbalance

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Originally Posted by Zerog

Currently running a UBR build with wish & Past in flames. Having trouble against Chalice Post board (mostly maverick)
Which card(s) do you recommend? I've been thinking about meltdown instead of the usual hurkyl's recall. Pulverize is too high cost(2 mountains are hard to come by). Been playing with explosives, but they're pretty useless.

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I'd also use Meltdown in this case. It has the big advantage of having an "XR"-CC, so you can play around chalice on 1 if you need to & if it's a chalice on 0 that's bothering you, Meltdown just costs R.

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Originally Posted by aaronm678

This is where the abrupt decay splash works very well - I would recommend a green source and 3 abrupt decay over the wipe away - it deals with both chalice and counterbalance

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I've tried that. The manabase was too shaky. There is the strickt UB build in main with green splash in sideboard which seems quite good. But i believe you need atleast 2 grim tutors.

I'm gonna try with meltdown. the low cmc seems good.

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Originally Posted by Zerog

I've tried that. The manabase was too shaky. There is the strickt UB build in main with green splash in sideboard which seems quite good. But i believe you need atleast 2 grim tutors.

I'm gonna try with meltdown. the low cmc seems good.

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With eight fetches, it shouldn't be a problem. If not you can always try to play more than 1 green source, i.e trops and bayou. To sidetrack, do you guys believe grim tutor belongs in the main 60 or sideboard? If it's in the SB, the chances of getting it via burning wish will be higher.

This is my current list:

4x Lotus Petal
4x Lion’s Eye Diamond

1x Tendrils Of Agony
1x Past in Flames
1x Ad Nauseam
3x Burning Wish
4x Infernal Tutor
4x Cabal Ritual
4x dark Ritual

4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
4x Gitaxian Probe
3x Duress
4x Cabal Therapy

4x Polluted Delta
2x Misty Rainforest
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Verdant Catacombs
2x Underground Sea
1x Tropical Island
1x Volcanic Island
1x Badlands
1x Island
1x Swamp

Sideboard
4x Dark Confidant
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Past in Flames
1x Ill-Gotten Gains
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Eye of Nowhere
1x Grim Tutor
1x Duress
1x Pyroclasm

First I had a Meltdown sb in place of the Duress, but i didn't use it much and needed something to tutor while having an useless Burning Wish in hand..
Dark Confidant is still working for me, but I noticed most people dropped it!

[QUOTE=mike1987;687661]With eight fetches, it shouldn't be a problem. If not you can always try to play more than 1 green source, i.e trops and bayou. To sidetrack, do you guys believe grim tutor belongs in the main 60 or sideboard? If it's in the SB, the chances of getting it via burning wish will be higher.[/QUOT

Was asking myself the same thing about Grim Tutor a few weeks ago when I picked up my second one.

Iv found 2 GT main makes your already shakey Ad Nauseam much worse. Another thing is, is I believe that 2 Grim Tutors main wantS Igg over PIF.

The one pro I liked was you dont need hellbent. Witch is super helpful of f an AnN flop that doesn't have LED in it.

Now that we have PIF Grim Tutor is better as a back up plan,better in the board.

In a tournament last weekend, I tried a couple of Sensei's Divining Tops in the sideboard, mainly against discard. They were awful, making me keep bad hands and just all around too slow. Think I might want an IGG in the sb against non-blue decks as it's faster than PiF when it works with LEDs. Still unsure about the best plan against RUG Delver. I used to have a couple of City of Traitors there, might test those again.

Hi all,

Reading and playing for a long time, most Dutch legacy/vintage players will know who I am.
I just wanted to tell you guys what I am working with and would like to know what you all think about it.

The MD I play at this moment.
4 X Polluted Delta
3 X Scalding Tarn
2 X Verdant Catacomb
2 X Underground Sea
1 X Tropical Island
1 X Badlands
1 X Island
1 X Swamp

4 X Cabal Ritual
4 X Dark Ritual
4 X Lion's Eye Diamond
4 X Lotus Petal

4 X Brainstorm
4 X Ponder
4 X Gitaxian Probe

4 X Infernal Tutor
2 X Snapcaster Mage
1 X Grim Tutor

4 X Cabal Therapy
3 X Duress

1 X Ad Nauseam
1 X Past in Flames
1 X Tendrils of Agony

I am still not sure about the Snapcasters, they can be really good or a brick in your hand.
I see people with 2x Grim Tutor and a extra land, or 2x Preordain in its place.
The second GT can also be a brick and the extra land can make you flood more often, the Preordains will let you dick deeper, but they are no business that let you win the game.

The mana base is really good, I prefer the Topical over the Volcanic because of the comment Emidln made.
If you play Abrupt Decay, you never want a Bayou and a Sea, but you want the Sea and a Tropical.
The Badlands is there for the Fetch lands, this way I can fetch all colors with all fetches.

The Sb is where it gets interesting.
SB: 3 Dread of Night
SB: 3 Xantid Swarm
SB: 3 Abrupt Decay
SB: 3 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Tropical Island
I have 2 open slots and don’t know for sure what I need in those slots.

I love Carpet against the BUG and RUG Tempo lists.
Decay + Swarm will be to much for Miracles.
Dread + Decay is a solid plan against Maverick
And Swarm against S&T is strong but not great.

I do not think I need extra discard in the SB, but at this point I almost think that 1 extra DoN and 1 extra Carpet will do the trick.

Would love to here your thoughts.

Greetz Zieby

Go for some bounce or/and a EtW else you can not beat a Leyline of Sanctity. Maybe not the most played card but still.

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Originally Posted by Pelikanudo

Again.

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I haven't played the Snapcaster build in a number of weeks. I changed them for a 2nd Grim Tutor and the 4th Duress. The only concern I would have against BUG builds compared to RUG is that they typicaly do bring in Extirpate/Surgical as an additional form of hate, and taking out their creature removal, along with their discard. Being exposed to their discard is the thing you want to minimize. There isn't much in this sideboard to handle that. The 2nd Tendrils is definitely necessary here.

Overal BUG is a tough matchup however. Discard + Counterspells + Wasteland is a tough trifecta to beat.

Sorry guys, maybe it's not very comman for you, but it's for me. What is our best option against burn??

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Originally Posted by GoldenCid

Sorry guys, maybe it's not very comman for you, but it's for me. What is our best option against burn??

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Win before they deal 20 damage?

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Originally Posted by Koby

Win before they deal 20 damage?

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I'm having troubles for that. Maybe i'm not lucky but they have almost perfect hand all the time. I'm not sure but i'm running 14 lands and 7 discard spots. I have a high mull ratio.

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Originally Posted by GoldenCid

I'm having troubles for that. Maybe i'm not lucky but they have almost perfect hand all the time. I'm not sure but i'm running 14 lands and 7 discard spots. I have a high mull ratio.

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The earliest Burn can goldfish is turn 3, and that's by damaging themselves with Flame Rift and playing 2 Goblin Guides. Given that, ANT will more often than not be faster than this goldfish without having to use Ad Nauseam. Nevermind that event a partial, non-lethal Tendrils will buy sufficient time to find and cast Past in Flames to combo off again. I suggest you keep practicing the limits of the goldfish with ANT to learn when you can or cannot go off in face of pressure.

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Originally Posted by Koby

I haven't played the Snapcaster build in a number of weeks. I changed them for a 2nd Grim Tutor and the 4th Duress.

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Are you still using the sideboard with the Lands, Abrupt Decays, and the Virtue's Ruins?

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Originally Posted by Namida

Are you still using the sideboard with the Lands, Abrupt Decays, and the Virtue's Ruins?

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I moved some of the duals into the main (Bayou/Trop main) and a backup Trop and 3 Karakas SB.

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Originally Posted by Koby

The earliest Burn can goldfish is turn 3, and that's by damaging themselves with Flame Rift and playing 2 Goblin Guides. Given that, ANT will more often than not be faster than this goldfish without having to use Ad Nauseam. Nevermind that event a partial, non-lethal Tendrils will buy sufficient time to find and cast Past in Flames to combo off again. I suggest you keep practicing the limits of the goldfish with ANT to learn when you can or cannot go off in face of pressure.

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Thx, that's a better answer to me. I'll keep trying.

I likely can't get a hold of another Grim after destroying my binder at GP Chicago to pick up my first(yay!). However, I still think that the 8th discard spell over the 2nd Snap is correct, but I'm not sure if a singleton Snap is worth it over something like Preordain. Thoughts?

A decent way to goldfish against Burn is to set up a scenario where your goldfish always plays 1 land a turn, and has infinite lava spikes in their hand (but each piece of disruption is -3 damage). T1 - Take 3, T2 - Take 6, etc.. It kills you on their T4 and find that it's around average with normal burn speeds, if not a *tiny* bit faster than their average goldfish.

I put my ANT deck down this week. Played a local with Uwb blade, deck is way underpowered. Time to resleeve the grim tutors.

Yet another top 16 in a 100+ people tournament. Stuck in my UBg(r) list, still thinking the plays that GT gives are far superior than the flexibility BW grants. Made a 5-2 losing the final and decisive match against MUD (2-1) because a terrible missplay of mine in addition to a topdeck of him. The otehr loss was against BUG which is a bad match up, just happened the regular: discard, some pressure and well played countermagic destroyed my hope of winning this match.

http://www.manainfinito.com/coverage...2012-noviembre

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

Thinking about cutting AN. I maybe win 1 of 20 games with the card and at that point it is just not worth it. it's greatest advantage is those turn 1-2 kills but even then i'd almost rather have empty.

95% of my games are all PiF. Where I can use my life total a bit more to just draw cards and buy time.

I understand how awesome it is versus the clockless control decks but it doe not come up enough for me and at that point the PiF route is just easier and more flexible, even versus grave hate.

going to give it some more thought and testing.

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Originally Posted by egosum

Yet another top 16 in a 100+ people tournament. Stuck in my UBg(r) list, still thinking the plays that GT gives are far superior than the flexibility BW grants. Made a 5-2 losing the final and decisive match against MUD (2-1) because a terrible missplay of mine in addition to a topdeck of him. The otehr loss was against BUG which is a bad match up, just happened the regular: discard, some pressure and well played countermagic destroyed my hope of winning this match.

http://www.manainfinito.com/coverage...2012-noviembre

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

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Congrats on your finish! I actually was just looking at ANT lists and I saw yours! Looks very good!

Thankfully I just won a tournament giving me a free Grim Tutor. But what do you think of the deck with just one in the mainboard, what would you replace it with if you didn't have a second one (another hand discard, preordain, Chrome Mox)?? I don't think I can find another one in my area haha! I do have a few concerns about the deck though. How's putting more duals in the deck affected the mana base? How's the 4 pieces of Graveyard hate in the side?

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Originally Posted by ThomasDowd

Thinking about cutting AN. I maybe win 1 of 20 games with the card and at that point it is just not worth it. it's greatest advantage is those turn 1-2 kills but even then i'd almost rather have empty.

95% of my games are all PiF. Where I can use my life total a bit more to just draw cards and buy time.

I understand how awesome it is versus the clockless control decks but it doe not come up enough for me and at that point the PiF route is just easier and more flexible, even versus grave hate.

going to give it some more thought and testing.

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I've had similar thoughts, the idea being Ad Nauseam is more of a turn 2 combo card where you've already been subjected to Thought Seize or Counterbalance compared to Empty the Warrens which is more of a turn 1 combo card with a delayed win timer that has a higher utility vs RUG, Merfolk etc. than Ad Nauseam does, and being able to cut Chrome Mox completely is amazing.

Being able to unload turn 1 is a lot more valuable than being able to unload turn 2 in terms of bypassing hate and anything Empty the Warrens isn't particularly good against then Pif is amazing against with the exception of aggro, and honestly aggro just gets hit with Ill Gotten Gains post-board.

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Originally Posted by Jessenator

But what do you think of the deck with just one in the mainboard, what would you replace it with if you didn't have a second one (another hand discard, preordain, Chrome Mox)?? I don't think I can find another one in my area haha! I do have a few concerns about the deck though. How's putting more duals in the deck affected the mana base? How's the 4 pieces of Graveyard hate in the side?

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It's not ideal but you can always replace the 2nd GT with a Personal Tutor. It's not that bad tbh. Either that or a 2nd preordain as you want to be able to dig for the 5 tutors (vs 7 in the BW lists).

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Originally Posted by Final Fortune

I've had similar thoughts, the idea being Ad Nauseam is more of a turn 2 combo card where you've already been subjected to Thought Seize or Counterbalance compared to Empty the Warrens which is more of a turn 1 combo card with a delayed win timer that has a higher utility vs RUG, Merfolk etc. than Ad Nauseam does, and being able to cut Chrome Mox completely is amazing.

Being able to unload turn 1 is a lot more valuable than being able to unload turn 2 in terms of bypassing hate and anything Empty the Warrens isn't particularly good against then Pif is amazing against with the exception of aggro, and honestly aggro just gets hit with Ill Gotten Gains post-board.

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Even being thoughtseized they take probably the piece that enables the line. Also a blind CB trigger can just ruin your day if they happen to hit relevant cmc(0,1, 2, or 5), when pulling the trigger blind. I have not really touched IGG in a while, I was able to turn 2 a burn player with PiF just fine and also had about one more turn to live and set it up if need be.

The amount of cards that need to be in your hand to enable an early AN is pretty large (rit + IT + LED + 1 more mana and that is with zero floating) and whiffing with AN is a very, very real thing, also with that hand it is almost more servicable to PiF, if another card is a single ritual you win on the spot, if it is another LED or petal you can probably almost get there, instead of flipping and hoping not to die or not flip more action to AN. Do not know, will look into it some more. Also AN has severely diminishing returns as the game goes on, where PiF just gets better. The same argument can be said about their roles in the early game but flipped, so I guess there is that.

Maybe I am just using it incorrectly, and should just be using it as a draw 6-7 (comes up quite frequently).

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Originally Posted by ThomasDowd

Thinking about cutting AN. I maybe win 1 of 20 games with the card and at that point it is just not worth it. it's greatest advantage is those turn 1-2 kills but even then i'd almost rather have empty.

95% of my games are all PiF. Where I can use my life total a bit more to just draw cards and buy time.

I understand how awesome it is versus the clockless control decks but it doe not come up enough for me and at that point the PiF route is just easier and more flexible, even versus grave hate.

going to give it some more thought and testing.

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I don't think it's worth it to cut -- it's excellent against any slower discard deck (most BUG, Esper, etc), and it's pretty damn good against any straight slow deck (usually various versions of U/W), and it gives you a tutor target when your opponent has maindeck graveyard hate (which is a thing now that Deathrite Shaman is a card). If it were only in there for turn 1-ness, I'd say cut it for another Grim Tutor, Iggy, or Past in Flames, but it does do other things. I do board it out fairly often, but it brings an awful lot to the table for just 1 slot -- even if you're winning just 1/20 games with it, that's probably worth it for a single slot in the 75.

Is Grim Tutor a necessity? I understand that it is a very good card, but is it the end all be all card for the deck? I am debating playing this deck, but This is the one card I probably could not aquire.

@Megadeus
Grim tutor adds so much consistency to both the burning wish and 2x grim version that is definitely is. I didn't own grims for awhile I tried with out them and at that point TES is a much better deck.

Grim Tutor adds the much needed 6th and possibly 7th business spell to the wishless version. In the UBr lists it's the best tutor for the board if you want the infernal tutors main (which you should).

On the idea of cutting Ad Nauseam for Empty the Warrens, I'm considering it too. Goblins are the better plan against most tempo decks and often still fine against aggro. You want to kill most opponents with a tutor chain or a graveyard engine anyways in g1. You can still board the Ad Nauseam to bring in against slow/discard decks or decks with too much graveyard hate. And it's pretty awesome to play ANT without the AN :P.

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Originally Posted by Koby

I moved some of the duals into the main (Bayou/Trop main) and a backup Trop and 3 Karakas SB.

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I just bought two Grim Tutors last week, so I'm about to start testing.

I'm familiar with Storm, but I have never played an Ad Nauseam deck in any event.

Is 15 lands enough? I've never played a Storm deck with less than 16, so I have a second Volcanic Island in place of the Duress you were talking about. I'm also not entirely sure about playing green duals in the main because of Wasteland. Do you find it to ever get you in trouble? Also, if I don't make that switch...the original 4 Therapy/3 Duress choice was because of the Snapcaster Mages in the emidln's list, right? I haven't made the switch yet, but I'm guessing Duress is going to be better since I'm not quite a Legacy Jedi yet so my educated guesses when I use Therapy are more guess than education right now.

And finally, what is your sideboard looking like if you made those changes between the main and sideboards?

While we're in the Grim Tutor discussion, could someone familiar with the UBr (burning wish) and the UBg (2 grim tutor) version do a quick summary of the pro's and con's of each build? I do know the main details such as abrupt decay being great at clearing CB's, and burning wishes giving you an alternative win con with the EtW. However, I'm curious as to which build is a bit more resilient, quicker, etc. Also, in the BW build, do you usually burning wish for a grim tutor the turn before going off, or is it somehow incorporated in the combo turn?

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Originally Posted by Namida

I just bought two Grim Tutors last week, so I'm about to start testing.

I'm familiar with Storm, but I have never played an Ad Nauseam deck in any event.

Is 15 lands enough? I've never played a Storm deck with less than 16, so I have a second Volcanic Island in place of the Duress you were talking about. I'm also not entirely sure about playing green duals in the main because of Wasteland. Do you find it to ever get you in trouble? Also, if I don't make that switch...the original 4 Therapy/3 Duress choice was because of the Snapcaster Mages in the emidln's list, right? I haven't made the switch yet, but I'm guessing Duress is going to be better since I'm not quite a Legacy Jedi yet so my educated guesses when I use Therapy are more guess than education right now.

And finally, what is your sideboard looking like if you made those changes between the main and sideboards?

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I can't imagine needing a 2nd volcanic, since PiF is easily castable off LED. I think if you're not on a MD green source that 16th land is either an island or a fetch that can get one. I think 16 land is correct, but I've always preferred land heavy decks.

On the MD trop, wasteland definitely comes up occasionally, I know I've lost games because it wasn't a basic...just playtest with both configurations, then decide whether the extra SB space is worth it (this is by far the most common change I make to my 60, actually).

On Duress vs Therapy, I like duress a little more than therapy anyway since I dislike Snapcaster - either way, the deck is going to play very similarly with a 4/3 vs 3/4 split.

On SB, mine is currently 1 trop, 1 iggy, 3 thoughtseize, 3 karakas, 2 chain of vapor, 3 abrupt decay, 2 maverick board wipe cards. I am testing 3 Xantid over a chain, iggy, and seize, and it seems OK to me in a lot of matchups, haven't really made a decision. If you want a 2nd Trop in the SB, cut a Chain or a Karakas, or you can probably cut one of the Maverick cards, as that deck hasn't been popular enough recently to be worth dedicated SB slots in many metas.


On grim vs bw - some people play bw because it gives them maindeck outs to hate bears. The biggest reason I dislike BW is it stretches the mana so far. Other downsides are it obviously loses at least 3 SB slots. The UBg version downsides are mainly ad nauseam is awful (Grim = 6 life), and it's slightly slower (generally can't just vomit out 12 goblins).

Sometimes I think about cutting the 1 volcanic, but it is occasionally quite useful. I was even able to masquerade as RUG delver w/a basic island against bant once in game 1.

Burning wish is awful because this deck is slow and wish doesn't get any good cards or it has to grab a grim tutor, which takes approx. infinite mana to combo with. And if you're always wishing for grim tutor why not just play grim tutor over wish? It saves you lots of sideboard space.

A lot of discussion is happening around AdN. The main problem I have is that if I draw the 1 of ad nauseam it is usually a lot better than drawing the 1 of PiF without a tutor unless I also have the 1 of tendrils. So if AdN is replaced directly with an IGG or PiF then we're reducing our live draws. Also, gravehate is a thing always side in against me if they have it so relying on IGG or PiF completely doesn't sound good at all and putting an AdN in the board to circumvent this problem doesn't really do much as it is still taking up a slot. Also really don't want to add IGG when blue is dominating right now, and we have to be able to use our LED and/or lotus petal heavy draws to combo out (I know this has come up several times in the games I've played where I draw lots of artifact mana so I can't PiF FTW.)

@Namida
If the deck wants to use Ad Nauseam fairly often I'd play the 1st mox over the 16th land. In a version which hardly uses it a 16th land would be fine. Therapy is better than duress if there's alot of permanent hate cards in people their MD's (e.g. Thalia). If there's more blue decks I'd play 4 Duress.
In the UBr version you can run a 2nd Volcanic if you want to run Pulverize in the board as a 3rd red source. If you're splashing green in the board I'd prefer a MD trop though.

@ac3eb
Wish is better if there's loads of Maverick-esque decks where you need solutions. It is, however, a terrible business spell fairly often. The wish version is also slightly faster. Wishing for tutor can happen on the combo turn or before, depending on your mana etc.
The UBg version has more stable mana, a better sideboard and high consistency.

@Dark Ritual
We'd be replacing the Ad Nauseam with Empty the Warrens, not an additional GY engine. Empty is a great draw, although our limited access to red mana makes it slightly worse than Ad Nauseam to just draw.