Hell, I had it my sideboard of my junk list (along with the 2 slaughter games). It did wonderful things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
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Hell, I had it my sideboard of my junk list (along with the 2 slaughter games). It did wonderful things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
I think it warrants further... investigation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
Even though it's a fragile thing it could provide quite some value in the late game. It even works incredibly well with Courser of Kruphix. Draw a land off the top, gain a life. If you want the top card, draw it with the clue. Fetchlands gain even more value, especially when combining the two. We'll just have a hard time protecting it though, even though it grows with every clue you sacrifice. And I'm wondering what to cut for it. The first candidate would be the highest CMC card in the deck (provided you run something that's bigger than Sigarda).
Edit: I could see the following build:
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Eternal Witness
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Glissa, the Traitor
4 Siege Rhino
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
4 Path to Exile
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Painful Truths
2 Diabolic Intent
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 New Sorin
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
2 Phyrexian Tower
1 Dryad Arbor
Lots of meat (i.e. pressure), 2 GSZ'able CA engines (or 3 if you count Meren) and a CA engine that can double as top end kill condition/planeswalker killer. Meren, Dryad Arbor & Phyrexian Tower make a nice draw engine if you have the Tracker out (and also turns the Tracker into a real clock quickly). It also has GSZ'able creature removal (of sorts) in Glissa and (easily loopable) GSZ'able artifact/enchantment removal in the form of Pridemage.
It might be worth it to include a Wood Elves to help power out Big Sorin whilst adding some extra synergy with Tracker. I'm going to have a hard time cutting a card though.
no abrupt decays? that's insane. I assume you also do Sudoku with a pen and throw your recyclables in the trash.
Lol Ricardio, you really missed it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
just skimmed through your post again, no mention of abrupt decay. I bet you don't put on sun tan lotion when you go to the beach. No abupt decays in a GBx deck? that's like riding a unicycle on the Autobon, your gonna have a bad time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
I mean, I've also been skimping on Decays lately. The card just hasn't felt that good, especially for my meta.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
No you missed that he hasn't played AD at all at least for a long time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
And here I am, thinking AD is one of the best cards in the deck :eyebrow:
http://i.imgur.com/EhOLWUr.png
This was so close to playable imho. It's essentially an O-ring that don't kill emrakul and always 2-for-1 yourself. Had it costed 1W or had it been an instant it would've been a cute sacrifice enabler for Nic Fit.
Bad card. I'll take that new vindicate anytime over this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gheizen64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
Thank you for your thoughts Bobmans.
I agree with everything you say about the Dryad Arbor. Think it is wonderful that we can turn Zenith/fetch into another therapy for very little mana. It might allow us to even keep some Therapy against Miracles. (as we side out Veteran) The only think I disagree is that we MUST play 4 Grove and therefore we cant support her. We dont have to play 4 and I think playing 3 is actually the way as we dont want too much red mana anyway. We should see Arbor as a Creature - not a land.
I will try to cut Intent and add Dryad Arbor for a few next tournaments.
As you can see I have one Deluge in the board and I think that is just fine. But I am aware that high end creatures might be a trouble.
In our Prague meta I am the miracle guy so if I dont show up with Miracles nobody does. So I think dragons are not the option for me. I dont like PrimeTime to be honest as it is too expensive, does very little when it comes into play... Not to mention that with Meren 2 Towers is the way to go I think.
All our creatures shoud be GSZable or they should be Grave Titan. :-)
Why do you think Painful Truth feels akward?
Kolagans Command is a good card but I dont think we need any of those modes really. Mabye to bring back witness/meren... I think we trash all blade decks really hard. Speaking about blade decks they are not really decks anymore I think. (d+t perhaps)
We play a little bit less creatures but what about Junk? It has a few creatures more... Rhinos. I think we reallly want to sacrifice Explorer and nothing else unless we really have to.
I just think this a better version of the deck and if not it fits my playstyle better. I like we have P. Fire so we can go infinite on removal so we are better against taxes, elves, delver. I like liliana with P. Fire not allowing combos and controls to come back. From the board Blasts and To the Ashes make a perfect deck. (almost) ;-)
Just a few points.
Do you have your list?
Tomáš
I would have killed to have ptruths in pfire jund. That card would be great in the deck. That deck is all about grinding CA with pfire and liliana. It is literally just big jund.
@ Koplinchen
Welcome to the Nic Fit thread, hope you won't miss the blue stuff too much !
Nice list.
It seems you've put a lot of work into it.
How many sanctioned events so far with your list ?
What did guide you towards a 4 decay build ?
Thanks for your insights.
For next event i will play at least vs; Miracles, UWr StoneBlade, Shardless, Ant, Elves and i suspect Eldrazi Stompy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koplinchen
This is what i am currently staring at. Mind that i have 60 cards main and am looking for dat cmc 5+ beef to finish it.
Also i have little time to respond properly.
4 vet
2 drs
1 scooze
1 witness
1 courser
1 huntmaster
1 meren
1 thrun
1 tusk
4 gsz
3 sdt
1 ptruths
4 therapy
3 deed
3 decay
3 pfire
3 liliana
1 pulse
3 catacombs
2 foothills
1 b. mire
3 forest
2 swamp
1 mountain
2 bayou
1 badlands
1 taiga
4 grove
1 dryad
1 p. Tower
Board
3 slaughter g
2 ts
2 surgical
1 p needle
1 garruk R
2 reb
1 ruination (availability)
2 g charm
1 k. Command
Ill modify the post later with full names.
if decay isn't good in the meta, deed isn't as good and therefore why are you playing nic fit? Our removal suite is top notch but you aren't playing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
that's a long time of sadness. that card is absolutely necessary, like air or pornography.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
me too. Maybe I am in the wrong thread. I will go check the rug delver thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by rubblekill
No KWR or Prime Time? That's sac-relig. or atleast broodmate deserves consideration. The deck grinds hard and wants a huge finisher or two. prime time gets all the utility lands and combos with kessig/thrun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
@ Bobmans
Thrun loses a lot of its value without Kessig.
The "Protect the damn troll" plan is really nice.
To be perfectly honest, I still feel like any Jund list should have a finisher.
If you don't want to overcommit yourself into the "protect the troll" plan (which requires a lot of cards); Grave Titan gets the job done.
To complement it (and since you have included an Arbor), I would definitely play a diabolic intent. It doubles up your chance to have Grave Titan when you want it.
Not to mention that with Meren & Witness, you could even tutor for any card every turn...
I'd run SBD over GraveT any day. The list imho is to light on creatures for intent and next to this, there is no really interesting lines of plays it opens up that i cant get to in the grind anyhow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralf
I have never been a fan of Kessig. Thrun is solid on it's own. It does not loose value. Pumping creatures is one of the least useful things to be doing in this deck.
Broodmate is poop. If you read closely you notice how i mention i am looking for that cmc 5+ beefy dude.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
Edit: I have been on JUND for some years, people don't have to be lecturing me on cardchoices that have been around. Because i have tried shit long ago.
The deck is SOFA KING weak to marit lage. Broodmate blocks or races alongside KWR. With so few creatures, turning the corner is a serious issue. you can control the board but without a wincon, you are just waving your wet dildo in the air to fend off your opponent until they realize it isn't a guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
I did mention that the list was still missing that beef.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
PrimeTime, KWR, Broodmate aren't it or i would have included them. Those ain't changing the lands problem. But Marit Lage is besides the point. Red misses its Sigarda. I have tried so many options and its just not there. So im still looking for that beef.
@ Bobmans:
I don't lecture anyone...
I have made my point on Jund longtime ago.
There is no beef, unfortunately.
The best option when power matters is G.Titan (Titania can also bring 10 power to the table on a blue moon)
I have tried many options.
Another choice could also be BSK.
I hope you will find what suits you best.
wurmcoil is always a solid option in any list even without nightmare if BSK is on the table. I personally like primetime and the run.
Wurmcoil, stormbreath,batterskull and grave titan (currently known as W, SBD, BSK & GT) all share the same problem : without intent in the deck they're one of.
Last year, a team mate and I did bring nic fit a the GVA legacy IV. He played grave titan as his finisher and did poorly , with multiple (non miracle) draws because he didn't drew his titan. I played primeval titan and kessig wolf run. so I had 6 time more finisher in my deck than him (and killing people with a 6/1 explorer after they dealt with the titan was so good ).
I did poorly too but it's because I'm a scrub :tongue:
Anyway now I follow the way of the rhino, so much fun !
Actually, I do. Balls of steel, buddy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
Decay is a good card but most of the cards you want to kill with it can also be answered by PtE OR Deed. In the case that it's answered by PtE, that leaves you with an extra mana and, more importantly, does not pressure your green mana so you have an easier time doing more than just casting AD for your turn. It also allows you to deal with threats @CMC > 3 (i.e. those Eldrazi bastards, Merit Lage or that-what-troubles-us-in-general). In the case that it's answered by Deed yes, it costs more mana, but you're most likely x for y < x'ing them, creating CA where AD leaves you on parity. PtE also leaves you on parity, but does so for less mana and, again, doesn't pressure your green mana. It's win-win either way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
Another thing is that a lot of our stuff is bigger than that ran by most, so why would you specifically want to target the small crap? Especially when you can deal with it with a little creative problem solving. That's also one of the reasons why I forego on Sylvan Library/SDT - with some creativity you can create similar-ish effects whilst wasting less slots. Courser of Kruphix + 20+ shuffle effects functions similarly to SDT (that gains life and can smash face), especially when combining it with that Tracker guy. That in turn frees up slots for other goodies. Or just fills up all slots you have for that stuff, but in return it's all GSZ'able and capable of smashing face if needed.
And yes, there are some niche cards that AD answers that neither of those do, but if you really want to deal with those just extend your reach and run Vindicate. At least that lets you kill JTMS.
I have played about 10 events with it including some bigger ones. and my worst result was twice 2-2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralf
It is mostly Matt's work.
I dont understand the debate - I think we can talk about playing 3 or 4 decay but not playing decay at all is crazy. This card means that we can do well against all the tempo decks (which is most of my field), compete even with their nuts draw, it allows us to stabilize kill whatever on T2 and it canot be countered. It can kill almost anyhitng and it is our "unfair/tempo" card that our opponent cant do too much about. It also kill counterbalance and one of the most frustrating thing is loosing to it.
I agree that we are very soft (JUND) to DD/Thespian Stage eot... Dragon is interesting but 7mana to search for it is a bit too much. As you know I am a strong advocate of Titania. It brings back a land (tower, grove) or puts 10 or even 15 pwr on the board and the fact the she is one mana cheaper is huge. Me having Titania results in my opponent concession3/4 of the time. I also think we need only one big guy/girl as Ooze gets really big in the lategame that paired with pFires, Tusk, even Meren and Shaman is a two turn clock anyway.
Tomáš
Please do understand that Jund isn't Junk and Junk has access to certain tools that Jund can't use but that shouldn't be a reason for Junk not to run it over whatever Jund is stuck with. To mirror your example: When you cast PtE on T2, you leave 1 mana open. That means it has "can't be countered by Daze". Now, if your opponent wants to protect the threat he cast more often than not his only option is FoW, which is an automatic 2 for 1 in our favor using a 1 mana card. I'm OK with this, as our cards usually have more impact than theirs. It also is one hard counter less we have to deal with when we want to cast the stuff they can't beat. We'll come out on top eventually. The worst case scenario after that is that you take some beats during the following turns, until you follow up with a big creature and turn the game around. Life still is a resource you can use.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koplinchen
Since I've been running Junk Fit this has been the way I rolled and I've yet to lose my first round to anyDelver.dec (or MUD, for that matter).
Sure it kills Counterbalance, but so do Pernicious Deed and GSZ into Qasali Pridemage. Both CMCs they have a hard time dealing with. Besides, sometimes you can get away with ignoring Counterbalance altogether.
To put this somewhat in context: I've been blessed with a very Miracles-light meta so it isn't something I really need to worry about. I run into it once every other monthly at best.
http://media.wizards.com/2016/aksdjc...LsYpeyc5Iu.png
Gitgud Toad could be decent in some kind of BG Loam version, possibly could show up in the BUG Reanimator versions with Entomb+Loam.
Being legendary is soul-crushing, though. Started to get really irked about every decent creature that we could use being legendary. Stupid Karakas.
:edit:
Just noticed it says, "from anywhere" on the draw clause. There's some WEIRD shit that can be done with that thing with dredge, holy hell. Dredge can very easily go through its entire deck in one shot with that in play o_o
Legendary Frog Horror...what the fucking fuck? Meh, whatever. The guy is pretty good. He's super fat like we want with Spiritmonger, Deathtouch is also fine, and drawing cards when lands die? Seems fine. With Top you can easily feed him lands when you need to. Legendary is balls, but worth trying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
Gitrog looks absurd. I'm sure there is some ridiculous list which can be made involving that guy and cards with Dredge. If you have a reasonable number of lands in your deck, he says 'whenever you dredge, draw a card' which has to be busted somewhere.
Upkeep, sacrifice a land. Trigger draw.
Dredge Darkblast. hit a land, Gitrog trigger.
Respond by casting Darkblast.
Dredge Darkblast. hit a land again, etc.
cast X darkblasts and mill 3X where X is your available black mana.
I'm sure this does something stupid.
That's where I'm at with him. He does SOMETHING stupid. I don't know what. It might just be that he's a Dread Return guy for dredge. It might be something else. My spider senses are tingling, though, for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Navsi
@Matt: don't forget that fetchlands will also give you a card draw off of him, as well. Same with Wasteland, etc, although that's probably not relevant to us.
This card is absurdly pushed. I mean just compared to spiritmonger that people were looking to play. The problem is we only really want the abilities but we are paying for the body. Lot of value stuffed into this card. Wasteland and fetches along with loam is great but we typically dont play those cards. Bug midrange/control does but 5 mana is a lot for those decks.
Maybe in a Jund landfall build? Or a combo deck- he kills your opponent straight up with a Dakmor Salvage + Seismic Assault.
TYVM WotC. This is gonna be perfect for the (indeed) landfall build i was already circling around Omnath, Locus of Rage.
Now THIS sounds interesting. Good catch on that combo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Navsi
Definitely picking up one Bigfrog for my deck. May end up only being for casual shenanigans, but the card is ridiculous. I've been looking for a new pet.
Other cards that may have synergy... Courser of Kruphix... Titania, Protector of Argoth... Sylvan Safekeeper... Knight of the Reliquary...
EDIT: That art cracks me up... This is what I see...
http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/...ncor-CHRON.jpg
Yep, my head is exploding haha.Quote:
Originally Posted by dave78pdx
this frog horror makes me moist.
Frogs need to stay moist or they die. Are YOU the frog horror?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
if you pay me enough, I can be whatever you want me to beQuote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Gotta stop lurking and share my excitement over this new bg-froggy. I saw it, and I almost came on my keyboard. I've been for long in the deepest possible love with Titania, and my fav and most played Nic Fit (JUNK) build is mostly built around her. My petcard just got her own favorite pet to play with, KoTRs just got a big beefy friend.
As well as Seismic Assault, Borborygmos Enraged is Zenithable, and goes infinite in the same manner with Gitrog + Dakmor Salvage, but also rather mana intensive.
If we don't have the ton of mana required, is there any other relatively simple way of getting a Borborygmos or Seismic Assault into play if we just mill our entire deck? Because chucking everything in the bin is simple enough if we have Salvage and Gitrog, since Wild Mongrel is zenithable.