So, is this thread dead? Come on guys, has anyone tried any new conflux card that may fit well in the deck?
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So, is this thread dead? Come on guys, has anyone tried any new conflux card that may fit well in the deck?
Conflux cards...
Well if you're playing a build that plays Wastelands similar to citunal's, imo Knight of Reliquary is worth testing.
Citunal,
Have you consider Knight of Reliquary in your The Rock list? Along with being a solid beater that can pump himself up by +2/+2 anytime he feels like it, Knight does all sorts of neat tricks with fetchlands, wastelands, and manlands. His ability to grab a wasteland anytime he feels like it, all while pumping himself up, is really useful.
Also, have you run into any of the decks that are maindecking Reliq of Progenitus such as Merfolk? It seems like that card would hurt a big chunk of your deck. What has your experince been with Reliq?
I started to play this deck today, I tested it with a friend that plays Merfolk, Mono Black Control and Death and Taxes, but usually we don't side, so I didn't try it against such a treat as Relic, but I should since my deck plays Cabal Therapy and Unearth, it worked pretty well, but I guess that cards like Progenitus and Tormod's Crypt are the reason why Cabal and Unearth aren't played in this deck. Anyway, they can side with 4 Relic/Crypt, ok they can remove my grave 1 time, 2 times, but after that stop! I mean, in many of the matches I played, at the end there were more cards in the yard than in the library!
Anyway these are just my thoughts, the only to know is to test it against a deck with sideboard.
Oh and I don't play wastelands, just a volrath stronghold, the other lands are fetch/duals/basics.
We are currently testing 2 Knight of the Reliquary. Running it through a tournament on Sunday 8th of March before I can be sure. For now, I like the card in general as it fits the deck but won't keep it in because it does nothing to improve any bad matchups. I'd rather play Kitchen Finks for the life gain to be better against Burn, Goyf Sligh or anything with direct damage for that matter.Quote:
Have you consider Knight of Reliquary in your The Rock list? Along with being a solid beater that can pump himself up by +2/+2 anytime he feels like it, Knight does all sorts of neat tricks with fetchlands, wastelands, and manlands. His ability to grab a wasteland anytime he feels like it, all while pumping himself up, is really useful.
Also, have you run into any of the decks that are maindecking Reliq of Progenitus such as Merfolk? It seems like that card would hurt a big chunk of your deck. What has your experince been with Reliq?
After a recent 2nd place of Merfolk we proxied the deck and started testing against it. So far, the results are to limited to really give a complete analyses. Their Standstills are not as good due to Factory + Waste in our Rock deck. The abundance of targetted removal combined with big creatures puts a stop to their assault rather quick and pushes the game into mid/lategame, just where we want it.
I did have some experience with playing against Relic and graveyard removal in general for that matter. The list we play is barely graveyard based. We don't run Eternal Witness anymore just to avoid graveyard hate being efficient. I do think it depends on the ability of the opponent to read and play the game. For Tombstalker they need to remove the graveyard asap or it will have no effect, to make Goyf a 0/1 they need to be sure I don't have fetchland/instant. The only bad thing it does is killing my Grunt during next upkeep.
I left out LftL in the previous paragraph to give it one of it's own. I'm rather happy if the opponent sides in graveyard hate against LftL, the card isn't as impacting in this deck as it is in others. To hit LftL they need to let it resolve first (unless it is discarded/countered) which is the only thing I want anyway, extra land drops. In the meantime they are wasting resources to hate the card out, even after it has done it's effect. But just hitting a LftL is hard enough when there's a Sensei's Divining Top in play. Just switch in response, dredge three cards, get Loam back, SDT on top and their effort was wasted.
Short version: The deck doesn't suffer a lot from graveyard hate, it might even be an advantage if the opponent does side it in.
It's Citanul ;) Lunatic spelled backwards.Quote:
Citunal,
As for the Primer, you asked about it in a different thread which is locked now so I'll answer it here. I have it in a word document on my computer, the problem lies with the forum. Due to it's length the post dissapeared after trying to update it. I have asked the moderaters for help but even they can't fix it like you can see with the update message: '*attempting to fix'.
I have come up with a solution, a rather messy one, of opening a new thread (again), reffering to the this one with a mentioning of the why. The Primer will be split in several different posts so that future updates won't cause the same problem.
Is there any reason you play Factories instead of Nantuko Monastaries. Or do you play both?
I would also be careful about starting a new thread here. Like Hammer just saw first hand, a couple of the people here can be dicks.
Also, I'm getting ready for the GP. From what either of you can tell, are a lot of people planning to take Rock type decks to Chicago?
And the main thing I am interested to find out about is your sideboard. What does it look like? Pithing Needle? Krosan Grip? Tormod's Crypt? Do you play Choke or do you play Tsunami? Which cards do you like the most? You can PM me if you don't want to give out that info so close to the GP, and I'll let you guys in on what I am taking to the GP.
Nantuko Monasteries require Treshhold, Factory does not. While I play Jotun Grunt and Tombstalker I cannot afford to be more dependant on my graveyard.
The starting of a thread here is different, it's the same primer as it was in this thread. You'll see when it ever gets posted again.
I do think some people will play Rock like others will play their petdeck and a large crowd will be playing more popular decks like TA, Dreadstill, landstill. There will alse be a number of Goblins, Combo so it's best to be prepared against these 5 sort of decks and know how to play against them.
Rock has a good matchup against random stuff so for day1 it is a very good choice, for day2, when most of those decks have been filtered out it will become harder to succeed but very possible. I do fear that if one gets into top8 it will probably not win it because the type of decks in the top8 will be solid with good pilots and the chances of winning/losing might just be a coinflip. I wouldn't bet on the deck with 3 coinflips coming up.
My sideboard is as followed:
3 Krosan Grip
4 Choke
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Thorn of Amethyst
It's very broad and limited in specific hate. Grip is for Counterbalance or other forms of enchantments/Artifacts.
Choke against blue based decks over Tsunami. It's cheaper and has a lasting effect while Tsunami won't stop future lands. If it was Instant I might've considered it. You need something against blue for sure. You can play Gutteral Response, Choke, Tsunami or other forms of hate but I wouldn't go without any blue hate.
Tormod's Crypt over Relic to keep my own graveyard. I mainly side these in against Ichorid, the rest is beign handled by Grunts. Only against Agro Loam I tend to side in 2.
Thorn of Amethyst against combo. I only run 4 Thoughtseize main to stop them so I need the help. Thorn slows them down in going of and in finding an answer, it even slows their mana accel. The time given by this can bring a 2nd Thorn which is usually gg or apply enough beats to ensure a victory. I'd run more hate for combo if I had the spots.
i am having problems with deciding on a sb. I run 3 kitchen finks and 3 loxodon hierarchs so i dont' think i need the cop: red. Is krosan grip necessary? i run 3 deed and 4 vindicate. most my list is 3cc to get around counter balance or is that not enough to beat the counter top? Engineered Plague, would EE be better in all situations and more except maybe against goblins?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pulp_Fiction
And i prefer to kick combo's ass if i can and not sit down and take it haha. Instead of choke maybe 4 duress. i have 4 thoughtseize main board. so side in 4 duress and 4 extirpate,you can hand hate then extirpate there main win.
so maybe something like this.
Sideboard:
4 Extirpate
4 Duress
1 Gaea's Blessing
3 Engineered Explosives
3 Tormod's Crypt.
Thanks for your posts.
this is my current SB for BG no splash
3 Extirpate
4 Krosan Grip
4 Tormod's Crypt
2 Haunting Echoes
2 Hymn to Tourach
The crypts are liable to turning into +1 Extirpate +2/3 Duress +1/0 Hymn
It looks like theres a lot of GY removal, but they are all for different matchups, you never side in Crypt, Echoes, *and* extirpate.
If you're having problem w/ goblins run you 4th deed SB with 2-3 Damnation.
Crime/Punishment is also a good option, I like it against Empty the Warrens.
Why not play Cannonist in the Builds that splash white? It seems to do better vs combo than a lot of the other stuff. Granted you need until turn 2 but a lot of the hate is just that slow (excluding duress).
3 Cannonist
3 Choke
3 K-grip
4 Leyline of the Void
2 ???
I just don't know what to do with the last 2 slots. I've thought about bringing Choke up to 4 or a little more combo hate but I can't figure out what to do with it.
Also I've been testing with knight and he's ok... If they bring in yard hate then you lose a lot. I'm running it in the witness slot because witness just didn't seem to be a great draw whenever I saw it.
It's been better to me than witness has but, I don't think it's a replacement for any of the other slots.
Changing the tormods will increase other combo MU but lessen the cephalid breakfast and icorid.
does anyone know if extirpating one card against combo will be enough to give us time to win? or do we need something permanent like thorn amethyst or the cannonist?
I don't think just 3-4 cannonist in a side board with out any other combo hate will do the job damionblackgear or do you mull till you get it? but then it is still 2 turns to play...
There is going to be a belcher deck and TES deck at my next tournament. IF extirpate and 8 hand hate is not enough then I am going to use thorn amethyst. I would think that duress and thoughtseize are crucial to stall till you get a thorn in play because when you are on the draw they get 3 turns so duress should be in the sb.
there is still icorid and cephalid breakfast as prominent combo decks so we need some graveyard hate. I run sakura so that helps with icorid. i guess tormods or leylines.
4 thouthseize main
sideboard
4 duress
4 thorn amethyst
3 tormod's / leylines
1 Gaea's Blessing
3 Engineered Explosives (set at 2 kills narcomeoba so they can't dread return or kills tokens againts empty the warrens and icorid plus a million other uses)
so basically it looks like i am deciding between thorn and extirpate...
as for cannonist i think i rather thorn amethyst because it is less vunerable ie doesn't care about creature hate. (though there is still gaddock teeg which is not an artifact but doesnt' go good with trying to cast all the black duress and thoughtseize plus still allows them to find answers with issues.)
The Rock is strong against every deck and with this sideboard can maybe beat combo too.
I can't imagine SB without:
3-4x Choke
1-3x K. Grip
Other slots are very flexible. Now my SB looks like:
3x Choke
4x Duress
2x E. Explosives
3x E. Plague
3x Krosan Grip
Could you please give me an advice? This is my current list:
// Lands
4 [R] Bayou
1 [U] Scrubland
3 [A] Savannah
2 [9E] Plains (2)
2 [7E] Swamp (3)
2 [TSP] Forest (1)
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
1 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
1 [SH] Volrath's Stronghold
// Creatures
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
3 [FD] Eternal Witness
2 [LRW] Doran, the Siege Tower
3 [SHM] Kitchen Finks
// Spells
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
4 [OV] Swords to Plowshares
4 [AP] Vindicate
3 [AP] Pernicious Deed
3 [UL] Unearth
4 [FNM] Cabal Therapy
I'm going to replace Unearth soon, I think with Hymn to Tourach. I know my deck is vulnerable to graveyard hate, so I would like to improve it, and I think the first thing to do is to remove the Unearths, even if it is probably one of my favorite cards in this deck, because of the sinergy with witness and cabal.
What do you think?
@legacy - I tend to not mull, if I don't have to. The cannonist costing 2 is a big bit of a gamble. Stone also cost 2 though (granted it has no color requirement but I think that's easy enough to fix). Besides, a good Belcher player will already have combo'ed off by 2 (if not turn 1) most of the time, so there isn't much that we can do except hope for an answer if we go first. Happily, if their going first game 2 we get another chance.
I think the questionmark spot will end up either being 2 duress or 2 explosives. Both of which I forgot about...
Just a thought though... The "newer" versions of Rock all look to be turning into Eva Green splash white.
Well Ive decided to toy aroud with a BG rock variant because I got bored of EVA Green variants and I didn't need to buy a shitload of cards to build it :)
After some searching and testing with different builds this is the one that suited me most:
B/G Rock
Main Deck:
creature [18]
3 Eternal Witness
2 Krosan Tusker
3 Ravenous Baloth
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Tombstalker
instant [6]
3 Putrefy
3 Smother
sorcery [8]
2 Duress
1 Profane Command
4 Thoughtseize
enchantment [4]
4 Pernicious Deed
artifact [3]
3 Sensei's Divining Top
land [22]
4 Bayou
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Forest
3 Swamp
1 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Wasteland
3 Wooded Foothills
60 cards
Sideboard:
2 Darkblast
3 Extirpate
3 Krosan Grip
3 Choke
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Umezawa's Jitte
15 cards
I choose to play BG because I don't have vindicates and scrublands (yet) so some pointers would be apreciated, since I like this deck more then EVA Green (More options/answers), and it's way more consistent/resilient
Ohw and the random profane command really wins games :D
Greetzzz & Thanks,
Robin.
your combo match up seems to be lacking.
I can see maybe the BG version having krosan grip sb because they dont' have vindicates.
And do Rock decks really need Krosan grip in sb? Don't we have a high enough mana cost to get around counter balance?
What do you side your jittes in against and how is darkblast working over engineered plague?
no, you don't need krosan grips.Quote:
Originally Posted by Legacy
Depends a lot on your metagame. I'd use them and say that you need them. Scepter/Chant hurts, CB players do have 3 CC in their deck and/or extra counters and random artifacts/Enchantments do exist.Quote:
no, you don't need krosan grips.
What are we doing about the Progenitus deck? I've cut swords and used Edicts now. It's been working but I'm expecting this deck to pop up since it's really solid, even though it's still being tuned.
Cutting swords seems like a bad idea, what about turn1 Lackey?Quote:
What are we doing about the Progenitus deck? I've cut swords and used Edicts now. It's been working but I'm expecting this deck to pop up since it's really solid, even though it's still being tuned.
I don't know yet if I am going to make room for anything against Progenitus, want to see it posting more results first before I weaken my own deck. If anything I'd cut 3 Shriekmaw for 3 Edict, either Chainer or Diabolic.
You can't live in constant fear of certain cards :).
In many builds Fleshbag Marauder should probably be played over Shriekmaw anyway.