The only things I don't like are the 4 Paths and 2 Foundries. Foundries because Ravager does it better, and the Paths because it requires the white splash.
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The only things I don't like are the 4 Paths and 2 Foundries. Foundries because Ravager does it better, and the Paths because it requires the white splash.
I'm not sure how much I like that list.
Are you usually able to get out of the gates quick enough with only 12 artifact lands and 4 accelerants, especially if they daze/spell pierce your springleaf drum? Also, do you miss Vials at all?
Does Wasteland give you problems? No Darksteel Citadels seems pretty ballsy.
How useful has Thopter Foundry really been? It seems like an okay Ravager 5-6, but it has no immediate effect on the board, and it's pretty mana intensive... but it does give you more plating targets.
I take it most of your games are won through fliers + plating? With 4 Nexus, 4 Thopter, and the foundries, you're bound to get a few airborne cranial hits in.
Is Path to Exile really that good? Do you like it more than another creature like Enforcer?
And last but not least: how can you stand to have Engineered Plagues in your SB? I thought they were complete garbage. Is Goblins really popular in your metagame?
Hi,
nowadays the walking creatures are much stronger than Frogmite, Arcbound Worker and even Myr Enforcer. So the plan ist to win with flying creatures like Thopter, Nexus and Foundry tokens attached with Cranial Plating.
I played red instread of white for Shrapnel Blast instead of Path to exile before. Shrapnel Blast was strong as a finisher for the win, but I lost many games against something like Tarmogoyf. I miss Shrapnel Blast i bit because of his finishing moves, bus Path To Exile costs one less to play and you don't need to sacrifice a permanent. Above that it deals with goyfs and other nasty things and it will give you an island or swamp is necessary (it occurs sometimes that you don't have a drum, but want to play thoughtcast or master, so exile a thopter or a foundry token if it gets you in an better position)
Engineered Plague is good against goblins yes, but also against merfolk and Ichorid (horror,...). Also splashing white brings you the Ethersworn Canonist which is in my opinion the best answer you can get in an affinity deck against storm-combo. He is an artifact, beats for 2 and don's bother your plan at all.
Actually, most Ad Nauseum lists run a good deal of bounce between the main and the side, the most popular of which is Chain of Vapor; so Ethersworn Canonist, though nice, is actually trumped by Chalice of the Void.
Perish is awesome, I've been SBing out Thoughtcast for Perish vs BANT and Zoo for awhile and it just wrecks their strategy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Exospaciac
Sounds like it would. How much does Perish improve the MU?
Hard to say, it definitely has more of an impact on Zoo than Bant just because of the lack of disruption.
Actually after years I get my Affinity complete foil and want to play it again...
What you you guys think about Basilisk Collar?
It makes our useless creature usefull and its an artifact... the only problem is that it is really mana intesiv!
Well, the way I see it, Basilisk collar main effect on the game would be to gain you a turn witht the lifelink, deadthouch dosnt do much for me, because if your in need of DT with affinity, your loosing anyway.
And i still much rather Fling something in the face of my opponent then gain life for an extra turn of attack.
Considering the recent victory of Reanimator, would it be prudent to sub out the Arcbound Workers for Heap Dolls? It would give us game G1 vs. Ichorid on top of taking out possible threats.
It's been discussed before, but we already have a pretty good matchup against reanimator and dredge, especially after sideboarding. Against Dredge we have an instant creature sac outlet and 3-4 Crypts, and against Reanimator we have thopters and Ravager shenanigans to block their creatures and to prevent them from gaining life with Sphinx of the Steel Wind (block, sac before damage).
Also, in the matchups Heap Doll DOESN'T help against, it's just a 1/1 for 1, which is very very unimpressive. Arcbound Worker is more than just a 1/1 for 1, it can be +2/+2 for Ravager or can even take a Ravager's counters and continue to transfer them between creatures. Making a Frogmite a 3/3 or an Enforcer a 5/5 can affect the game more than it seems at first.
To me, the deck just doesn't feel right without Arcbound Workers. Even the 2/2 for W from Shards block doesn't compare to the trusty Arcbound Worker.
I GUESS if you're expecting heavy dredge AND reanimator it could be used, but I myself would never want to use anything but workers.
But you can't hate out Reanimator the same way you would hate out dredge - If you could, then it wouldn't have made as big as a splash. Heap Doll also helps to prevent Stax from getting a Waste-Lock on you with Crucible. Maybe Arcbound is still better, but I'm thinking that at the very least, a good amount of testing is in order.
Just a question: Would a 3-2 split of Crypt/Relic be wise, so as to avoid Pithing Needle killing us? Or are 4 Tormod's Crypts enough hate?
Also: My manabase looks like this right now:
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Seat
4 Vault
4 Tree
2 Nexus
And i'm wondering if I should switch the Nexuses to Glimmervoids. Thoughts?
Dredge doesn't play Pithing Needle (or at least the lists I've seen don't), so there's no real reason for the split.
I guess if you want you can go 3/1 crypts/relics. You'll more often than not want crypts to help you get everything going faster, so having 1 relic shouldn't be too bad.
I'd switch the Nexuses out for rainbow lands definitely, unless your sideboard has little to no non-artifacts. I have 1 City of Brass and 1 Glimmervoid only because that combo of rainbow lands is the best to open up with if you have a good hand with only those two lands.
On another note, I played in a tournament today and did horribly, going 2-4 (7-10 altogether). Part of it was bad luck and good hate, but my playing wasn't as good as it could have been either. I'll post a small report tomorrow.
I played against ProBant x2, Lands, Merfolk, Zoo, and Eva Green.
I'm thinking about either not playing Affinity any more or playing a radically different build. This build is really good but it just craps out on me too much... as much as it hurts me to say it, I think I'll be putting this deck on the sidelines till "Mirrodin 2" comes out. I love playing this deck, but the hands that aren't broken just can't stand up to the power level of the other decks' average hands. :/
Alright, here's my abysmal report from yesterday.
Round 1 vs. CounterTop Bant Progenitus thing whatever it's called nowadays. 1-2
I believe I win the die roll here and swarm his board quickly with frogs, thopters, and an MOE. I don't really remember this match.
Sideboarding: +4 Perish +3 Grip -4 Thoughtcast -2 Enforcer -1 Worker
Game 2 he goes Noble Heirarch turn 1 into turn 2 Trygon Predator. Next turn he drops a Pridemage. Awesome.
Game 3 was really good. He manages to get a huge board presence of 2 Goyfs, RWM, and 2 Heirarchs while countering and STPing all my big threats. I'm down to 11 life and topdeck a Perish to wipe his board clean. I swing with a Disciple and an Arcbound Worker for a few turns while frantically searching for a real source of damage. He plays both CB and Top but I grip both before he has a chance to use them. I draw lands while he gets Heirarch into NO. Next turn he attacks me then plays a Goyf and NOs for Pridemage... then lols that he didn't do that precombat and kill me. I can still win if I topdeck Perish or Ravager... and don't.
Round 2 is against Bant again. 1-2
Game 1 I get turn 1 Vial and curve out nicely with Worker into Ravager into MoE from the Vial and drop a bunch of free frogs in the meantime. He dies on turn 5 without doing much of anything.
Sideboarding: same as last round
Game 2 he gets turn 1 Noble Heirarch into turn 2 AND turn 3 Trygon Predator. Really? I Perish them both away but he plays a Pridemage into my board of 3 lands and it finishes me easily.
Game 3 he gets turn 1 Noble Heirarch into turn 2 AND turn 3 Trygon Predator. Really? TWO games in a row?
Round 3 is against Lands. 2-1
I win the die roll and go land, thopter, drum, worker. He plays first turn exploration, Tabernacle. That stalls me long enough for him to get a pair of Mazes and lock me out of the game.
Sideboarding: +4 Pithing Needle +3 Krosan Grip -1 AEther Vial -3 Arcbound Worker -2 Thoughtcast -1 Myr Enforcer
He goes first turn Land, Mox, Mox, Crucible, second turn Smokestack, then proceeds to laugh. I get a 1st turn vial thopter, 2nd turn frog frog disciple, 3rd turn plating, and 4th turn MoE and Needle on Maze of Ith, then kill him the following turn.
Game 3 he drops EE on 1 and 0 early on. I try my best to play around them and drop needle when he only has the mana to activate one. He blows it for 1 and takes out a drum and a disciple. Next turn MoE comes and he scoops.
Round 4 was against Eva Green. 1-2
Game 1 we trade dudes for a while, but I end up drawing 3 MoEs and a Ravager over the course of the game and manage to overpower him.
Sideboarding: +3 Perish +4 Pithing Needle -1 AEther Vial -2 Arcbound Worker -3 Thoughtcast -1 Enforcer
Game 2 he gets out an early Jitte on a Nighthawk and I have no way to deal with it.
Sideboarding: -1 Perish -1 Thoughtcast -1 Enforcer +3 Krosan Grip
Game 3 I get mull to 6 but get a decent start with a frog, worker, thopter, and a plating. He Snuff Outs one guy, then drops Deed and blows my board. I see 0 sideboard cards.
Round 5 was against U/G Merfolk. 0-2
He wins the die roll. I don't really remember this game. I think he gets out a few Goyfs and Lords and just outraces me.
Sideboarding: +4 Pithing Needle +3 Krosan Grip -4 Arcbound Worker -1 Myr Enforcer -2 Thoughtcast
Game 2 was very tense. We both get early vials set on 2 and 3. I get out a huge MoE and he grips it, but I get a second and he has no way to deal with it. His board is 2 Goyfs, 2 Silvergills, and 2 Mutavault and some other lands. I have MoE, 3 Ravagers, and I think a Frogmite. After a few attack phases, tt comes down to me having MoE, a 7/7 Ravager, and Disciple, and him with only 2 Goyfs and 2 Mutavaults at 8 life. He has one card in hand. If that one card is anything but a creature, I can win by swinging with both my big guys and forcing him to block. I decide to take the risk because, what the hell, I'm not coming back in this tournament anyway, and his last card in hand is a LoA, enabling him to block and swing back with just enough to kill me. I also see no sideboard cards in this game.
Round 6 was against Zoo. 2-1.
Game 1 he wins the roll and gets turn 2 Gaddock Teeg. I then just lose because I misread it and thought it affected ALL spells. Afterwards I pick it up and lol at my mistake.
Sideboarding: +4 Pithing Needle +4 Perish -4 Thoughtcast -1 AEther Vial -3 Workers
Game 2 I get out turn 1 drum into turn 2 Platinged thopter and swing. He gets a Jitte but I have the needle. Knight of the Reliquary gets Perished away and we go to G3.
Game 3 he gets a fat early Goyf and burns my Frog out to make him a 4/5. I let him swing at me a few times, even though I have the Perish in hand. He finally plays out a second Goyf and I perish them both away. I play out MoE and start chunkin away at his life. He plays KotR but it eats a second Perish.
Perish was awesome, but apparently not awesome enough to win me all the games I drew it in.
This deck has absolutely no way to deal with turn 2 predator into literally any other relevant play the next turn. In short, Trygon Predator is just as bad as Pridemage for this deck. I think maybe a little change to this deck is needed... We need more ways to block that stupid thing.
Maybe it's time to seriously consider Roterothopter as a 2 or 3 of?
As I stated in my last post, I think I'm gonna be putting Affinity on the sidelines till Mirrodin 2 comes out. Too many decks run relevant hate cards that just ruin us. Trygon Predator, Pridemage, and Shattering Spree are just good enough to make this deck unplayable.
Yeah, I'm hoping Mirrodin 2 throws us a few bones as well. Should be interesting, so say the least.
I'm considering playing this deck again next Sunday if I can't get Dredge built before then (I'm really close, trade me stuff!). I really want to try something a bit different though.
I've lost more games to Trygon Predator than to anything else (okay... except maybe poor topdecks). So I'm going to fit as many fliers in as possible without ruining the consistency of the deck.
Here's what I propose:
// Lands
3-4 [DS] Darksteel Citadel
2 [5E] City of Brass
1 [MR] Glimmervoid
4 [MR] Vault of Whispers
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod
3-4 [MR] Tree of Tales
// Creatures
4 [MR] Disciple of the Vault
4 [DS] Arcbound Ravager
2 [MR] Myr Enforcer
2 [MR] Somber Hoverguard/Qumulox/BROOOOOOOOOODSTAR/Thopter Foundry?
4 [MR] Frogmite
4 [MR] Ornithopter
4 [HL] Roterothopter
4 [ALA] Master of Etherium
// Spells
3 [DS] AEther Vial
4 [FD] Cranial Plating
3 [LRW] Springleaf Drum
4 [MR] Thoughtcast
// Sideboard
SB: 4 [TE] Perish
SB: 4 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [FNM] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 [TSP] Krosan Grip
No, it's not terribly different from the "standard" list, but I think it's different enough to spark a little discussion.
I dunno what blue flier would be best in the 2-of slot. Hoverguard straight up trades with Predator, but any removal at all kills it. Qumulox is a nice middle-of-the-road dude (jellyfish?), but I dunno if 5/4 is big enough. Maybe I'm just too used to having 8/8s or 7/2s on turn 3. Broooooooooodstar seems pretty unworkable (10cc?!), but I guess I'll never know till I try it. Thopter Foundry... I don't think it'll be good, but there have been times where I just needed a sac outlet to win and couldn't draw Ravager.
Or am I missing a creature? I thought about Esperzoa, but it just doesn't seem worth it, and it's susceptible to way too much stuff, and Glaze Field just blows.
Thoughts? I'd really want to get this deck a little polished before Sunday if I must play it.
Finally, a tournament with some decent results!
I played at Knight Ware today at a 25ish person tournament for store credit, and got 3rd/4th winning $30 credit.
I was oh so close to playing Dredge (I was 6 cards away from completing the whole deck) but I just couldn't find what I needed.
So I decided to roll with Affinity again.
I thought about using the maindeck I had posted in the post above, but decided just to swap out the Workers for 4 Roterothopters and not change anything else.
My list:
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Tree of Tales
4 Darksteel Citadel
1 City of Brass
1 Glimmervoid
4 AEther Vial
3 Springleaf Drum
4 Cranial Plating
4 Thoughtcast
4 Ornithopter
4 Roterothopter
4 Frogmite
4 Arcbound Ravager
3 Myr Enforcer
4 Master of Etherium
4 Disciple of the Vault
Overall, I went 3-1-1 in the swiss, facing UG Ally/Mill (2-0), ANT (0-2), Merfolk (2-0), EvaGreen (2-0) and drawing the last round; in the quarterfinals, I faced mono black Vampires (2-0) and Aggro-Loam, which owned me so hard I still can't walk straight.
I'll write out a full report later if someone wants to see it, but I'll just mention a few things for now.
Bakofried, you were definitely right about replacing the Arcbound Workers, though Heap Doll would have still been as awful in every single matchup I played. Roterothopters were by far and away the MVP today. Having multiple fliers on the board was valuable against so many decks. Every time I drew a Roterothopter, I was never upset that it wasn't an Arcbound Worker. They've earned a permanent place in my Affinity build for sure.
Aggro Loam is probably almost as bad of a matchup as combo is for us. The deck I was playing against had Chalice, EE, Seismic Assault, Pulverize (postboard) AND Devastating Dreams. What the hell am I supposed to do against that?
I actually never saw a single sideboard card the whole tournament, so I can't comment on how effective any of them were. I never really sided in a lot of cards except against Aggro Loam, but that match is pretty hopeless anyway.
So does anyone want a full report? Any other comments or suggestions?
Is this the standard? That the 4 Thoughtcast come out in most every match?Quote:
Originally Posted by Exospaciac
I understand that they aren't Artifacts and you don't want to be flooded with non-Artifacts in Affinity, but it also seems like when they are your only draw engine, that having ~2-3 of them still in the deck would increase your ability to find your SB cards. In alot of your match ups you mention not finding the hate you needed.
I'm ignorant in terms of Affinity SBing, so I could be completely off base, I was just looking for clarification.
I'll admit that taking out all 4 Thoughtcasts might have been a mistake in some cases. The best choice is probably to take out 2-3 Thoughtcasts and some combination of Platings or Enforcers. There have been times where I just want to Thoughtcast into more artifacts but just end up with a handful of overpriced colored cards I can't afford to, or find the time to cast. This REALLY hurts if you're already paying 1U or 2U for Thoughtcast and drawing into the 3cc sideboard cards with them.
It happens way too often where I'll draw all my sideboard cards but won't draw ANYTHING relevant after that, then I'm dead on the board. At least if you're not siding out threats, you have a better chance of drawing into them, rather than just drawing into card draw or into more SB stuff.
If I'm SBing Pithing Needles or Crypts, I'll usually take out 2-3 Roterothopters, a Frog, and maybe a Plating or Enforcer (depending on the deck I'm facing) for them. Those are cheap enough to where they won't disrupt the normal flow of the deck.