Re: [Deck] Updated: R/G/W Zoo
Eh...I feel that 3cc is way too expensive to make up for the cycling. See, in any situation where reprisal wouldn't help you, I think that you actually shouldn't need to worry too much about what you're playing against. Why? Because if their creatures don't have >= 4 attack, then it's pretty likely that you're burn can kill the creatures and/or your creatures can outclass theirs. (Plus, one card is unlikely to make the difference that match anyway.) If instead it's combo, then you really can't waste 2 mana cycling a card anyway. Against CB, well, you're probably not going to win if they have it up anyway, so stalling them is useless, and if you have a way to deal with CB and win, then the 2cc of reprisal wouldn't matter.
However, in a situation where you need to kill a creature with >=4 power, then the lower casting cost is huge. That will definitely save you more games.
That said, I'm unsure if reprisal is the right card to include or not. I honestly haven't had enough testing to say what the best removal should be.
Re: [Deck] Updated: R/G/W Zoo
Ok i have been testing alot and have come across quite a bit of landstill. When they drop a landstill is it better to just burn (cast) right though it or save up a bunch of critters/burn and go apeshit later on?
Re: [Deck] Updated: R/G/W Zoo
It depends on ther lifepoints.
In the early game dont care about standstill and give them the 3 cards.
Whene they have stabilized and are in range you could wait a couple of turns and then unload all of your instant burn eot then the rest in your main phase.
But try the latter only whene you have already lots of burn in your hand and you are sure you could finish them off.
Most of the time it is just better to give theme the 3 cards, because waiting a lot of turns isnt a good idea, and sooner or later you have to break it anyways.
Re: [Deck] Updated: R/G/W Zoo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Frank The Tank
Ok i have been testing alot and have come across quite a bit of landstill. When they drop a landstill is it better to just burn (cast) right though it or save up a bunch of critters/burn and go apeshit later on?
Early Game: it really depends on how much land is in your hand. If you are mana flooded, you should welcome a standstill and just drop lands while their hand fills up and they have to discard. then bolt them during their cleanup step.
If you are low on lands, you sorta have to ignore it. Also, if they have top, you have to ignore it. Just play through it immediately while they are tapped.
Re: [Deck] Updated: R/G/W Zoo
Woolly Thoctar just isn't performing well for me. He just seems lackluster. I either don't have all three colors to cast him, or i don't want to because i have better stuff.
I'm thinking about moving BTS to his spot as a two of. Seems good in a format dominated by fetches and SDT
Re: [Deck] Updated: R/G/W Zoo
This is probably old tricks for most people here, but it's pretty new for me and I've been using it to relatively good success lately:
Kavu Predator followed by Reverent Silence. The Predator ensures that your opponent's removal will be aimed at it, instead of Goyf or Nacatl, due to it's synergy with your own StP and the inherent trample. Reverant Silence doesn't reduce the tempo of the deck, clears Counterbalance and then either eats a hard counter or puts them on a very short clock. Plus it has the bonus of removing the ubiquitious CB, always a perk, if it goes off!
I play in a pretty homebrew meta, but CB(+SDT) has been increasingly popular. The Predator's synergy with 8/10 cards in my deck, specifically answers to problems I'm dealing with anyway, is working. I don't always side Reverent Silence out if not playing against chants because a lot of decks don't have easy answers to a second turn 8/8 trampler. Obviously the big drawback to the Predator is it's a pretty lacklustre 2/2 for 2 relying on other cards to grow and Reverent Silence can easily be a dead card depending upon the MU. Otherwise, it's a 2 for 1 vs removal when using Reverent just to buff the Predator, which always sucks for card advantage.
EDIT Someone mentioned Invigorate a page ago on the thread, possibly jokingly(?), but it has surprisingly good synergy here for the same reasons as Reverent Silence and, unlike RS, it would never be a dead card since it would always at least be a buff for your beaters at no cost to tempo. IF you happen to get it off on a Predator then you'd swing for 9 trample and end up with a 5/5 afterwards. In terms of mana/tempo, that's right up there with Goyf or Tombstalker. Big beats for 2 mana.
Re: [Deck] Updated: R/G/W Zoo
So, with the prevelance of giant creatures (goyf, stalker, dreadnaught), I've really been thinking that zoo means more answers to them. Mostly goyf, since you're going to play against him a lot, and he can really nullify a lot of your creatures. Personally, I don't think that running path completely over swords is the right choice, but I really do think that zoo could benefit from running more copies. Although I haven't really gotten time to test anything, I've played a little bit with a configuration running 3 swords and 3 path, which I think is really good. At the least I think 4 swords and 2 path would be strong as well. That extra 2 swords effects can make a huge difference I think.
Sorry that I don't have a lot of content right, but thoughts on running more?
Re: [Deck] Updated: R/G/W Zoo
Awesome new creature to look into:
Quasili Pridemage
GW
2/2
Exalted
1- Sacrifice to destroy target artifact or enchantment.
Could be really good!
Re: [Deck] Updated: R/G/W Zoo
hey everybody - im new to this site, so here's my list (post-alara reborn):
4 Kird Ape
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Magma Jet
4 Price of Progress
3 Fireblast
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Heath
3 Taiga
3 Plateau
2 Mountain
2 Wasteland
SB
4 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Pyroclasm
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Krosan Grip
i am quite confident about this list. i noticed some of the cards being discussed in this thread are rather inefficient, namely thoctar, watchwolf, and rancor. i think the people playing watchwolf will certainly want to switch to qasali pridemage when ARB comes out.
also, there is absolutely no excuse for not playing price of progress in this deck
Re: [Deck] Updated: R/G/W Zoo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Patrunkenphat7
hey everybody - im new to this site, so here's my list (post-alara reborn):
4 Kird Ape
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Magma Jet
4 Price of Progress
3 Fireblast
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Heath
3 Taiga
3 Plateau
2 Mountain
2 Wasteland
SB
4 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Pyroclasm
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Krosan Grip
i am quite confident about this list. i noticed some of the cards being discussed in this thread are rather inefficient, namely thoctar, watchwolf, and rancor. i think the people playing watchwolf will certainly want to switch to qasali pridemage when ARB comes out.
also, there is absolutely no excuse for not playing price of progress in this deck
A 2 of Wasteland? Wtf? Seems not good or consistent. Also, whynot run Windswept Heath instead of the Bloodstained Mire, it gives you access to the basics you need for Kird Ape and Nacatyl, basics are good.
I agree with the switch from Watchwolf to Qasali Pridemage. I love Watchwolf though, so i'll prolly but the Pridemage in my two open spots or run a 3/3 split of him and the wolf.
Re: [Deck] Updated: R/G/W Zoo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Loxodon Baileyarch
A 2 of Wasteland? Wtf? Seems not good or consistent. Also, whynot run Windswept Heath instead of the Bloodstained Mire, it gives you access to the basics you need for Kird Ape and Nacatyl, basics are good.
I agree with the switch from Watchwolf to Qasali Pridemage. I love Watchwolf though, so i'll prolly but the Pridemage in my two open spots or run a 3/3 split of him and the wolf.
the 2-of wasteland is awesome, i dont see how that doesnt seem good. you want to see either price of progress or wasteland in a game, but not more than one wasteland. any more wasteland would hurt the consistancy with price of progress or getting your colored mana early, but seeing one in a game is really, really good when your max. mana cost is 2.
now about the basics, forests and plains are actually quite bad and slow for my deck. they might not be bad for some of you guys' lists, but i play the most efficient burn and creatures possible. this deck can run easily off basic mountains if it needs to. windswept heath cannot search for basic mountains, while the mire can search for any land in my deck (minus the wastelands of course). being able to use all your open mana before your next turn is important, and there would be many times when you wouldnt be able to do that with a basic forest, and especially with a basic plains. if they're spending their time wastelanding your land early, you will win. i can cast 18 spells in my deck with 1 mountain.
concerning watchwolf, its just not as good as so many of the other options out there. try playing more burn like rift bolt which nicely dodges counterbalance. i feel like creatures like watchwolf and river boa are way too slow and take away the whole point of this deck: crushing your opponent before they can even set anything up.
Re: [Deck] Updated: R/G/W Zoo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Patrunkenphat7
the 2-of wasteland is awesome, i dont see how that doesnt seem good. you want to see either price of progress or wasteland in a game, but not more than one wasteland. any more wasteland would hurt the consistancy with price of progress or getting your colored mana early, but seeing one in a game is really, really good when your max. mana cost is 2.
now about the basics, forests and plains are actually quite bad and slow for my deck. they might not be bad for some of you guys' lists, but i play the most efficient burn and creatures possible. this deck can run easily off basic mountains if it needs to. windswept heath cannot search for basic mountains, while the mire can search for any land in my deck (minus the wastelands of course). being able to use all your open mana before your next turn is important, and there would be many times when you wouldnt be able to do that with a basic forest, and especially with a basic plains. if they're spending their time wastelanding your land early, you will win. i can cast 18 spells in my deck with 1 mountain.
concerning watchwolf, its just not as good as so many of the other options out there. try playing more burn like rift bolt which nicely dodges counterbalance. i feel like creatures like watchwolf and river boa are way too slow and take away the whole point of this deck: crushing your opponent before they can even set anything up.
Whynot just post this in the GoyfSligh thread? Your list would be more suited over there.
Re: [Deck] Updated: R/G/W Zoo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Patrunkenphat7
4 Kird Ape
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Magma Jet
4 Price of Progress
3 Fireblast
2 Wasteland
....
I like this streamlined list, though I'm a little skeptical of the 2-of Wasteland as well. Seems better as a third Lavamancer, third Mountain.
Also, is Rift Bolt really better than Lightning helix in this deck? A 2/2 split would give you an even balance of 1 and 2cc burn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Loxodon Baileyarch
Whynot just post this in the GoyfSligh thread? Your list would be more suited over there.
Naya Burn, GoyfSligh, R/G/W Zoo... the lines are blurring.
Re: [Deck] Updated: R/G/W Zoo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
keys
Naya Burn, GoyfSligh, R/G/W Zoo... the lines are blurring.
His list runs Fireblast, Magma Jet, PoP, and Lavamancer. Come on... cute cards like that belong in GoyfSligh.
Re: [Deck] Updated: R/G/W Zoo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Loxodon Baileyarch
His list runs Fireblast, Magma Jet, PoP, and Lavamancer. Come on... cute cards like that belong in GoyfSligh.
haha i'd say fireblast and PoP are more 'sexy' than 'cute'. and i like to think of my list in this camp, considering goyfsligh was originally intended to be G/R
concerning 1 mountain and 1 lavamancer for the 2 wasteland: if i were to replace them that's certainly what i would do. i still think the wastelands are just too good in certain situations and never really hurt my deck all that much. i guess its just personal taste
edit: forgot to mention helix: helix is fodder for so much counter-nonsense, i prefer rift bolt. the extra mana and the weakness to spell snare and counterbalance makes the 3 life gain not worth it
Re: [Deck] Updated: R/G/W Zoo
@Patrunkenphat7: I don't see why you don't like Lightning Helix. It's amazing in the "mirror", it helps you outrace GoyfSligh, and on a few occasions, it's won me a game against Tendrils combo. It's instant speed too! I would take the Helix over Rift Bolt just because of that.
Re: [Deck] Updated: R/G/W Zoo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Loxodon Baileyarch
@Patrunkenphat7: I don't see why you don't like Lightning Helix. It's amazing in the "mirror", it helps you outrace GoyfSligh, and on a few occasions, it's won me a game against Tendrils combo. It's instant speed too! I would take the Helix over Rift Bolt just because of that.
dont get me wrong, i do like it. it depends on what you think you're gonna go up against. if you think you're gonna play tons of goyfsligh and burn, then yeah i'd play helix over rift bolt. but i built my deck for a larger legacy tournament where i expect every deck and its mother to be running counterbalance. i also like having a few more 1-drops than 2-drops.
i may considering switching to 2 rift/2 helix, i just gotta do some more testing.
Re: [Deck] Updated: R/G/W Zoo
I top 4ed a 32 person tourney with Zoo tonight. Fought my way through waves of spells to the top.
My list:
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Kird Ape
4x Wild Nactal
4x Watchwolf
3x Isamaru, Hound of Konda
2x Chain Lightning (Yeah i know..)
2x Woolly Thoctar
4x Swords to PlowShares
4x Lightning Helix
4x Lighting Bolt
2x Cursed Scroll
2x Jitte
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Windswept Heath
3x Taiga
3x Plateau
3x Savannah
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Forest
Sideboard
4x Pithing Needle
2x Tormod's Crypt
3x Vexing Shusher
3x Ancient Grudge
2x Gaddock Teeg
1x Null Rod
Round one i get the bye! Free wins FTW!
Round two i get paired up against counter slivers. Game one i just outrace him, game two he has countermagic for everything, and game three he gets stuck on a bayou and Aether Vial, and has no mana for daze.
Round three i get paired up against Turbo Land. I have to play this kid every week and every week he get Shackles and beats me.. same goes for this week, after boarding in 11 cards.
Round four i play merfolk, I beat him 2-0 by just killing his lords and keeping no creatures on the field when he has Jitte.
Draw to top 8.
Round one of top eight i play Goyf Sligh, and Zoo is just better. My damage sources stick around, and i fetched around PoP. Lightning Helix seals the deal.
I will note that Watchwolf is being replaced by Quasali Pridemage, he is the card Zoo has been begging for for a while. A maindeck, preboard answer to gay shit like Shackles, Counterbalance, etc.
Re: [Deck] Updated: R/G/W Zoo
I don't know, Watchwolf is damn good. You will certainly be cutting the Chain Lightnings (those 2 open slots .... finally get filled!!!!!) and then probably cut 1 Isamaru and 1x Thoctar. Something like that, I have been getting more and more weary of Thoctars lately, I seem to draw my 2x in multiples ...
Also, congrats on wrecking the noobs!!!!
Re: [Deck] Updated: R/G/W Zoo
chain is pretty good. I know its slow but gives you a bolt damage quality that can finish off the game or take something out, also pumps goyf if your opponent hasnt played a sorcery yet
Also a consideration, anyone thought of adding black to the deck? The additions would be amazing. access to terminate, thoughtsieze and therapy for the combo match ups or control. Then theres doran whick is just a bomb and helps with the goyf battles. Wed get to have our own tombstalkers. Also access to vindicate and/or maelstrom pulse.
With black comes better removal, more/ better creatures and access to more cards in the board for at what cost? being vulnerable to waste lock, buts thats a given.
