Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Well, for competitive Legacy, it's definitely at the high end of what I would consider budget, but it's still in there. I think that the only competitive decks that come in at less are Burn, LED-free Ichorid, and Raffinity, at about 40-50 total apiece. Of course, on the other end, you've got deck with 8 blue duals, goyfs, fetches and more that weigh in between 300 and 500 easily.
On topic, two questions:
What does the deck's SB look like? Just spitballing, I would probably run with:
4 Krosan Grip (CB and troublesome artifacts/enchantments)
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Relic of Progenitus (Dredge Hate. I guess relics come in vs Goyf.)
4 Rushwood Legate (So much blue)
And the perhaps the other three slots go to random utility. I think I would prefer to punt the combo matchup and not go nuts with trap/chalice/thorn. Just pray for 2x Berserk and an invigorate.
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
I'm a long-time fan of stompy decks and Giant Growth in general, and I am curious about this deck concept in general. I live in Los Angeles, and there isn't much of a Legacy scene out here...but now there's a SCG Open here in January and I want to figure out something to play for the Legacy event.
So I just read through the entire thread and I think the following really hasn't been brought up yet:
-There's a version running U/G hybrid cards like Slippery Boggle. Has anyone considered Jessian Infiltrator? It would allow for a more UG cards to improve the power level of Shorecrasher Mimic in this deck.
-I don't recall seeing any discussion of Groundbreaker or Boggart Ram-Gang in this deck. I know 3-drops are discouraged for obvious reasons, but in some builds people like 2 Tarmogoyf because it's a mid-game creature that can break through a stalemate. Would Groundbreaker perform a similar role in a more aggressive way, as a haste tool that is better against Spell Snare and (to an extent) Counterbalance? And along these lines, Giantbaiting is a tool that works in a similar way, though it also has synergy with Nettle Sentinel and it can break through countermagic because it's twin spells.
-There was talk about a black splash, but it didn't seem to go too far. What about Putrid Leech and/or Dark Confidant? I don't recall seeing either of those in the thread. Leech is a 4/4 for 2 mana, so it's really good with Berserk and it outclasses Wild Nacatl from Zoo. Bobs could also do well to draw into more pump effects to get damage through--this deck is already sitting on a ridiculously low curve and probably doesn't care about taking some damage from Bob because it's hyper-aggressive. Also, if ANT is a huge presence in the metagame, Thoughtseize/Duress is a strong sideboard option from a Gb Stompy deck.
All that aside, can someone tell me honestly what the worst match-ups are for this deck, in order? Is there any match-up that's completely hopeless for us, or for our opponents? Also, how does this deck fare against Merfolk, Goblins, Zoo, and Tempo Thresh? From what I've read so far, it does well against the tribal decks, can do well against Thresh due to speed and 1 mana spells, and probably has a tough time against Zoo.
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
I think people generally are justifiably afraid of getting Wastelanded/Stifled out of the game and for that reason have eschewed a splash of any kind. When you only have 17 lands, the all-basic manabase begins to look a lot sexier.
Groundbreaker has the problem that you will never have the mana to pump it on the turn you cast it, whereas all the other Stompy creatures are available to be pumped on the next turn. It also suffers from the critical ailment of diestoeverythingitis. Moreover, it can't stick around and affect the board, even blocking like a Tarmogoyf can.
Also, there is an essentially monthly legacy tournament at Knight Ware, which is right along the Cahuenga Pass.
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
hi there;
I know all the people here are sticking to mono green versions of the deck, in terms of wasteland and stifle proof, and sometimes this works quite well. However, i started about two months ago to test a GW version of the deck to include swords to plowshares and qasali pridemage to have a better game one against other strategies. At this point, i included noble hierarch to profit from the exalted theme (i loved to pump silhana to a 3/3 every turn or making hulk unblockable thanks to this). Recently it has changed a lot, since i included blue. And i think i would never come back from this.
anyway here's the list:
// Lands
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
2 [ZEN] Forest (2)
4 [ON] Wooded Foothills
3 [R] Tropical Island
3 [R] Savannah
// Creatures
4 [CNF] Noble Hierarch
3 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
3 [NE] Skyshroud Cutter
4 [PLC] Kavu Predator
4 [AL] Elvish Spirit Guide
3 [EVE] Cold-Eyed Selkie
// Spells
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [4E] Swords to Plowshares
4 [B] Berserk
4 [MM] Invigorate
3 [NE] Daze
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
SB: 3 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 3 [SHM] Vexing Shusher
SB: 2 [NE] Reverent Silence
SB: 2 [UD] Compost
SB: 2 [MI] Seeds of Innocence
SB: 2 [SHM] Wheel of Sun and Moon
brainstorm is a house here, allowing to dig for that berserk, stp, land, anything we need. Daze will save us those 1st turns, and as we apply a lot of pressure they are forced to play threats very quickly, so they'lle fall into daze or wait a turn.
there's no other deck i tried where selkie is as amazing as here. exalted is huge, so is invigorate and berserk. if they connect only one turn they'll give so much CA that the opp can manage.
ESG gives use daze protection and the possibility to do turn one kavu, tarmo, everything. Cutter has also a good synergy with kavu and it's a free creature like rushwood legate but we can play it in all matches.
anyway, i know that this goes far away the normal build, but this version does not rely in berserk as much as mono G one. we can continue to do kavu invorate berserk berserk to have a fast kill, but i think i can have a very good late game with this version also.
I hope someone could give this a try and share the results here in the source also.
Thanks for reading,
Thorin
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Not sure about Skyshroud Cutter... It only interacts with kavu predator, and when it doesn't, it's not that good card... sure, 2 creatures in frist turn, but for that amount of life... and it's hardcast is too high for a plain 2/2...
The splashs were commented by CHaPuZaS before, each of them got it's own set of good cards to add, and it will highly depend on the strategy you wish to follow.
I consider the green version fast enough, and quite safe too, but if you know your meta, than, a splash to help against the badmatchs would be be totally acceptable. I do think we have to splash only if we are sure that it will be favorable for us... We play a format in which every strategy got it's weak points... Even if it's weak point is just being "slower" or "less business" than the other possibility...
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
I think the deck needs to stay Mono-G, but I told my opinion a few pages ago...
I am now up to 15 Lands, because 14 was sometimes a little bit to less, in some games... (I think 14.5 is optimal, lol)
What do you guys think of VoV Nr. 4, or are 3 enough for the main?
...also I am trying an evasive Critter like Treetop Scout in the slots of Nettle Sentinel or Skyshroud Elite... Do anyone has some experience with it???
also I am having some problems with my Board...
It's something like
4 Vexing Shusher
4 Mindbreak Trap
3-4 Seeds of Innocence
...should I fill the other 3-4 slots with Gravehate (Crypt/Relic/Ravenous), Enchantress/Enchantmenthate (Reverent Silence), or some allaround stuff (Naturalize/Grip) - I'm not sold on Rushwood Legate, because Shusher + our agression is more than enough against U...
I really wish some card like this would exist:
Nature's Rage GGG
Sorcery
Destroy all Artifacts and Enchantments.
some kind of drawback / opponent lifegain / whatever
so far...
YawG
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Only a thought:
Why not try Shanodin or Rushwood Dryad? I mean, just about every second deck is packing Tarmogoyfs, which means forests.
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Rushwood Dryad is too bad for cc2... Dryad Sophisticate would be better than Rushwood Dryad, but she is also too bad for Stompy...
Don't know about Shanodin Dryads, but I would say that Scryb Sprites / Treetop Scout are better, because Flying > Forestwalk...
YawG
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Just wanted to chime in and say that this deck is probably the most fun I've had in a long time. I put it together just for shits and giggles and it actually does unexpectedly well.
I run a version with Scrybs over Skyshroud Elites/Jungle Lions/Tattermunge Maniac because I prefer guaranteed evasive beats. I'm not particularly sure about the card disadvantage from Vine Dryad, as I almost always want every card in my hand. Also, a 1/3 without guaranteed evasion isn't particularly impressive.
Also, Kavu Predator - same consensus as everyone else: it's randomly amazing and at other times it just chumps while my evasive guys go through for damage. I don't think or know if there are actually any better options other than Goyf, who is pretty meh in this deck.
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Yesmilord
I don't think or know if there are actually any better options other than Goyf, who is pretty meh in this deck.
Well, you don't need goyf, play some random 1cc instead of him... it's a personal choice actually, and people seems to be running less goyfs and more scrybs. Scrybs works very well with Vines of Vastwood, which works very well with enchantment pumps, and rancor/briar likes scrybs a lot too... seems like that's where we are going to.
The 2cc card that would be in place of tarmogoyf for the evasion and survivability - and block - would be river boa... long time I don't play it, but it used to rock the blue baseds... But the common sense now is adding 1cc's, and we got loads of options there...
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gui_Brasil
Well, you don't need goyf, play some random 1cc instead of him... it's a personal choice actually, and people seems to be running less goyfs and more scrybs. Scrybs works very well with Vines of Vastwood, which works very well with enchantment pumps, and rancor/briar likes scrybs a lot too... seems like that's where we are going to.
The 2cc card that would be in place of tarmogoyf for the evasion and survivability - and block - would be river boa... long time I don't play it, but it used to rock the blue baseds... But the common sense now is adding 1cc's, and we got loads of options there...
Wow River Boa seems amazing. Too bad U is no longer in every single tier 1 deck, although the regenerate ability is still very relevant. I'm not sure what to cut when it comes to Vines of Vastwood and Briar Shield. I'm assuming the Seal of Strengths (as mentioned on the first page), but I've kinda liked how you can drop those and sit on them. Here's what I've been playing:
17 Forests
4 Scryb
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Slippery Boggle
4 Nettle
4 Ledgewalker
4 Predator
4 Berserk
4 Invigorate
4 Rancor
4 Might
3 Seal
EDIT: Is Briar Shield just like...straight up better than Seal of Strength? I understand that you might lose your creature and get 2-for-1'd, but on a Ledgewalker it just seems insane!
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Yesmilord
Is Briar Shield just like...straight up better than Seal of Strength? I understand that you might lose your creature and get 2-for-1'd, but on a Ledgewalker it just seems insane!
Depends on if you're running Boggles or not. If you've got both 4x Ledgewalker and 4x Boggle, Briar Shield really helps out, since the clock on both of those is absolutely terrible. Same thing with Scryb Sprites/Rangers, if you don't draw a Rancor they kinda suck. Briar Shield goes a long ways towards fixing it. I wouldn't do it without the Boggles though, as getting 2-for-1'd all the time really isn't what the deck needs.
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Yesmilord
Wow River Boa seems amazing. Too bad U is no longer in every single tier 1 deck, although the regenerate ability is still very relevant. I'm not sure what to cut when it comes to Vines of Vastwood and Briar Shield. I'm assuming the Seal of Strengths (as mentioned on the first page), but I've kinda liked how you can drop those and sit on them. Here's what I've been playing:
17 Forests
4 Scryb
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Slippery Boggle
4 Nettle
4 Ledgewalker
4 Predator
4 Berserk
4 Invigorate
4 Rancor
4 Might
3 Seal
EDIT: Is Briar Shield just like...straight up better than Seal of Strength? I understand that you might lose your creature and get 2-for-1'd, but on a Ledgewalker it just seems insane!
Well, your deck functions differently when it has the Boggles and Nettles, so Briar Shield is a better fit. For the older builds with more non-evasive 'pound face' (Jungle Lion, Skyshroud Elite), Seal of Strength was fine because it just sat and made your opponents just stare and generally let your critters through. Boggle has to be played... less conservatively or they can tell when you feel ready to 'go off' and when you lack pumps to protect everything else. It can be a liability, psychologically.
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dilettante
Boggle has to be played... less conservatively or they can tell when you feel ready to 'go off' and when you lack pumps to protect everything else. It can be a liability, psychologically.
Not sure I quite follow here. Are you saying just to keep attacking in with Boggle and bluff the pumps since they can't kill him? (I think that's what you're saying)
Also, would it be a 3-for-3 swap of seals vs briars?
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
What does everyone think about this?
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...5&d=1260268347
Leatherback Baloth GGG
(vanilla)
4/5
The only place in legacy I saw it fitting was possibly in Berserk Stompy. Likely it will just recieve criticism as an overcosted goyf. I figured I would mention it anyway.
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vacrix
What does everyone think about this?
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...5&d=1260268347
Leatherback Baloth GGG
(vanilla)
4/5
The only place in legacy I saw it fitting was possibly in Berserk Stompy. Likely it will just recieve criticism as an overcosted goyf. I figured I would mention it anyway.
It's a mention, but I don't know if it has a place here. After trying out the deck, I couldn't care less about vanilla creatures, which is why I've opted to run none of them. If anything, I would consider running Troll Ascetic before that, since it has trollshroud and regenerate (which is actually a relevant ability).
Either way, a 3CC creature is a bit high on the curve for this deck so it better be damned good.
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Yesmilord
Not sure I quite follow here. Are you saying just to keep attacking in with Boggle and bluff the pumps since they can't kill him? (I think that's what you're saying)
Also, would it be a 3-for-3 swap of seals vs briars?
Yep. Bluffing. This is a green deck where you can be tapped out and bluff that you pack an invigorate. Not attacking with a Boggle when you are slightly mana inefficient with your drops after attacking gives away too many clues.
Seal is really the last tier of the pumps. Rancor, Berserk, Might of Old Krosa, and Invigorate are givens. Same reason as in the old deck having 2 Tarmogoyfs. They were the 3rd best 2-drop (how often do you hear that?). I don't like Briar Shield that much because it may increase damage output... but only protects one creature. You want to swing with the whole team to maximize damage and use the enchantment as a punisher for whatever is blocked... or obviously the final blow on whoever seems to be the best likely target to uberpump if you draw into it. It's not always whoever you Briar Shield that becomes that target. Unlike a giant growth, it sits on the board and forces your opponent into weighing cost/benefit decisions. Meanwhile, you just drink your coffee. This is what I love about this deck. It's a break from shattering my mind with combos. I blame you, Bryant.
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Quote:
Yep. Bluffing. This is a green deck where you can be tapped out and bluff that you pack an invigorate. Not attacking with a Boggle when you are slightly mana inefficient with your drops after attacking gives away too many clues.
Assuming a competent opponent who knows what you are playing. Otherwise you just lose a creature. I think doing this is more powerful in game 2/3 when they know whats up.
Quote:
It's a mention, but I don't know if it has a place here. After trying out the deck, I couldn't care less about vanilla creatures, which is why I've opted to run none of them. If anything, I would consider running Troll Ascetic before that, since it has trollshroud and regenerate (which is actually a relevant ability).
Troll Ascetic actually sounds good as a 2 of, much better than Baloth. Has anyone tested him?
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Yesmilord
Also, would it be a 3-for-3 swap of seals vs briars?
Yeah, no matter how you slice it, they're worse pump than Krosa, Invigorate, Berserk, and Rancor. Can't cut any of those. There's also no good reason to split the Seal/Briar count, either you're running a bunch of 1/x guys that have a terrible clock that you need to improve or you aren't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Yesmilord
It's a mention, but I don't know if it has a place here. After trying out the deck, I couldn't care less about vanilla creatures, which is why I've opted to run none of them. If anything, I would consider running Troll Ascetic before that, since it has trollshroud and regenerate (which is actually a relevant ability).
Either way, a 3CC creature is a bit high on the curve for this deck so it better be damned good.
Agreed that a 3cc dude has to be utterly insane for us to care. I'd much rather play a Troll or Cold-Eyed Selkie (and I'm currently playing neither). Troll is the most insane Berserk target in monogreen, while Selkie is a great metagame choice as well as a card-advantage machine. A 4/5 with no abilities has nothing on either of those, so I really can't imagine running it. However, for the sake of discussion, I'd like to see a Troll Ascetic list. Here's my current list and then a shot at Troll:
Current 15&2 Forest Build
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Skyshroud Elite
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Slippery Boggle
2 Scryb Sprites
1 Scryb Ranger
4 Ledgewalker
4 Kavu Predator
4 Rancor
4 Berserk
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Invigorate
2 Briar Shield
15 Forest
SB:
2 Forest
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Naturalize
4 Seeds of Innocence
2 Reverent Silence
4 Shusher
Troll Ascetic Version
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Pit Skulk
3 Skyshroud Elite
3 Scryb Ranger
4 Ledgewalker
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Troll Ascetic
4 Bounty of the Hunt
4 Might of Old Krosa/Vines of Vastwood (not sure here, need testing)
4 Berserk
4 Rancor
14 Forest
4 Land Grant
SB:
4 Cold-Eyed Selkie
3 Seeds of Innocence (maybe these should be cut with no Predator? Thoughts?)
4 Krosan Grip
4 Vexing Shusher
Obviously using some ESG, Rangers, and a higher land count to try to land Troll. Then Bounty of the Hunt to make ESG less useless, same with Land Grant. It eschews the Invigorate package, since Troll is awesome and Predator is probably the weakest guy in my current build. Since the deck is designed to hit 3cc, it can probably use Selkie in the board nicely. Vines of the Vastwood probably not a bad idea either, they're much better with a slightly better manabase. Krosan Grip over Naturalize in the board since if you can hit the mana, it's obviously just a better card.
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Quote:
Troll Ascetic Version
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Pit Skulk
3 Skyshroud Elite
3 Scryb Ranger
4 Ledgewalker
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Troll Ascetic
4 Bounty of the Hunt
4 Might of Old Krosa/Vines of Vastwood (not sure here, need testing)
4 Berserk
4 Rancor
14 Forest
4 Land Grant
SB:
4 Cold-Eyed Selkie
3 Seeds of Innocence (maybe these should be cut with no Predator? Thoughts?)
4 Krosan Grip
4 Vexing Shusher
I think Land Grant needs to go. The deck already has problems with lands (at least in my experience it has been inconsistent in land drops, either too many or too few). Having lands that can be forced/dazed/spell snared/spell pierced doesn't look good to me. Bounty of the Hunt isn't good enough to justify the strategy IMO. I think Troll Ascetic looks good in the normal shell actually. Provided you can get Scryb Rangers out, you can hit 3 mana via play rangers with 2 forests, on the following turn, attack with rangers, 2nd mainphase tap forest, return forest, untap rangers, tap 2 forests hitting 3 mana.
What about Ohran Viper? I've been testing him in other decks and he has been tight! Your opponent usually doesn't want to block him so he can fill up your hand, can trade with goyfs, KoTR's, and has synergy with scryb rangers via your opponent is attacking, play scryb rangers in response, return a forest untapping Viper and blocking. If you have one in play, it can turn scryb rangers into a kill spell. I always liked seeing him in my testing with him (not in berserk stompy but in other decks). At the worst he eats an STP or trades with another creature, at best he draws you cards and/or discourages the opponent from attacking.
Thoughts?
EDIT:
Also, has Scent of Ivy been tested? It looks good.
