[Deck] Elves Combo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jon Stewart

I do not understand the people that opt to play

Birchlore Ranger
Nettle Sentinel
Grapeshot
Regal Force

over

Joraga Warcaller
Elvish Archdruid
Concordant Crossroads


What happens if the deck doesn't draw/resolve a Glimpse? The deck rolls over and dies, that's what.

With Joraga Warcaller and Archdruid, you can got the aggro route and still win by beating down your opponent with massive Warcallers atleast.

The odds of always having a Glimpse every game aren't that high.

The odds of always having either a Glimpse to combo off with, or a Joraga Warcaller or a Sylvan Messenger to draw into multiple Archdruids or a Warcaller to let you go the aggro route if you can't combo out on the other hand are much higher.

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That's where your wrong sir. You can go aggro as well. I have done it plenty of times. Although Joraga may be ran in my sideboard to bring in, I like the combo version because it is hard to disrupt and can just win. Your list looks like it rolls to Enchantress and counterbalance pretty hard.

I dont like Crossroads because it helps your opponent as well.

Also, I do go aggro with the deck. In fact today, I dropped my hand on turn two and he was dead in two turns. It may not be as fast, but it got me there. I had Leyline of Lifeforce back up.

I really like my list. The version I posted toped in an event here already. I am going to take it to an event this weekend and Ill let you know how I did.

PS, does anyone have any outs to Firespout? I have some more lords in my side, maybe Jorga?

thanks!

hello im a longtime lurker to the forum and just joined i've been playing legacy for 2 yrs and have alot of expeirience with combo of alll sorts elves is currently my favorite:

5 forest
2 taiga
1 savannah
1 misty rainforest
1 verdant catacombe
2 windswept heath
2 wooded foothills

1 regal force
1 viridian zealot
1 mirror entity
1 vexing shusher
3 elvish visionary
3 quirrion ranger
4 wirewood simbiote
2 priest of titana
3 elvish archdruid
4 heritage druid
4 llanowar elves
4 nettle sentinel
1 eternal witness
1 anger
1 masked admirers
3 birchlore rangers

4 glimpse of nature
3 survival of the fittest
2 sumoner's pact


SB:
2 faerie marabre
1 tormod's crypt
1 magus of the moon
2 umezawas jitte
3 krosan grip
4 mindbreak trap
2 choke

so far the list has been destroying.
i can win with standard combo, priest/archdruid+mirror entity+wirewood simbiote combo, and the priest/archdruid combo+ survial+ masked retainers to play all my 1 mana elves for 4 mana right from my library

i think survival is a great addition to the deck and i couldn't be happier with it

I hardly see any people playing Staff of Domination in their lists... Why not? It's a house and fits this deck perfectly in my opinion.
I'm running the Birchlore/Heritage/Nettle synergy aswell as mana ramping with Archdruid, Priest and Qurion/Wirewood. It works like a charm and does not rely on getting glimpse all that much. You can easily draw your library with the Staff and go off with a insanly large Banefire.
And I don't see the benefit of running Grapeshot when you can run Banefire, it must be harder to obtain a storm count of 19 than going for large amounts of mana.

I did run Crop Rotation in the list before to be able to tutor for Gaea's Cradle as well as for sideboard cards like Karakas, Maze of Ith, Bojuka Bog etc.

This is my list:

2 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Bayou
5 Forest
2 Taiga
2 Gaea's Cradle
2 Savannah

4 Priest of Titania
4 Llanowar Elves
3 Fyndhorn Elves
3 Quirion Ranger
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Elvish Visionary
3 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Nettle Sentinel
3 Heritage Druid
4 Birchlore Rangers

1 Banefire
4 Glimpse of Nature
1 Concordant Crossroads
2 Staff of Domination

Sideboard:
4 Krosan Grip
2 Absolute Law
3 Sylvan Messenger
3 Imperious Perfect
1 Bond of Agony
2 Joraga Warcaller

The sideboard isn't welltrimmed at the moment, it could need a fresh up. The only main problem I have playing the deck is when I face Zoo type decks with great amounts of burn.
How good is Leyline of Lifeforce? Does it pull it's weight to lock up 4 slots in the sideboard? And how do I tackle the problem against burn heavy decks?

@ magicplaya10
The best answer to Firespout in my opinion is Absolute Law since all your guys gain Protection from Red. I would opt for 3-4 in the board if you face sweepers that much.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jon Stewart

Yes, I'm referring specifically to the decks that are built almost entirely around Glimpse (most of the lists in the thread).

The average undisrupted win turn for my list is turn 2.5 with glimpse and turn 3.5 without Glimpse. But even with significant disruption, it scrapes together a win on turn 4/5 without much difficulty.

Most of the standard lists in the thread (including the one in the OP) aren't capable of doing that without Glimpse. I know from past experience playing those same lists.

If you have a list that wins that consistently without Glimpse via multiple routes, I would be interested in seeing it. I'm particularly curious as to how you managed to squeeze so many different non elf win conditions into the deck while still being able to abuse Glimpse when you do happen to draw and resolve it.

Do you mind posting it? Thanks.

---

Mana Source: 17
1x Wasteland
1x Gaea'sCradle
9x Forests
4x Land Grant
2x Crop Rotation

Creatures: 34
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Birchlore Rangers
4 Heritage Druid
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Llanowar Elves
3 Priest of Titania
1 Elvish Visionary
1 Eternal Witness
1 Mirror entity
1 Sylvan Messenger
1 Regal force
1 Joraga Warcaller
1 Progenitus

Spells: 9
4 Glimpse of Nature
2 natural order
1 Grapeshot
1 concordant crossroads
1 staff of domination

Banefire vs. Grapeshot

Grapeshot is x times better than Banefire. They have to deal with other copies of it, it can clear your opponent's side if needed and you can always re-use it with Eternal Witness.

As for sideboard, Jdepends on the build really. I personally like Elvish Champion the most, so I keep three of them, and I also play three Jitte, which can bring home the Merfolk matchup home. Other cards.. Viridian Shaman is a must, and everything else depends on the meta. Other combo decks really doesn't expect Chalice of the Void to be played in elves, so I opt to play that one. Chalice on 0 wrecks :) You can side out Summoner's Pacts or some elves to fit it there, so it's really not a problem. Other cards.. Pendelhaven, to save Wirewoods, Mycoloth is an option too. Oh, and Faerie Macabres should be in the sideboard too. But really, depends on the meta..

@ccman: You might add a Taiga in order to get Anger working ;). (Please excuse my random trolling in this thread)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Augustas

Banefire vs. Grapeshot

Grapeshot is x times better than Banefire. They have to deal with other copies of it, it can clear your opponent's side if needed and you can always re-use it with Eternal Witness.

As for sideboard, Jdepends on the build really. I personally like Elvish Champion the most, so I keep three of them, and I also play three Jitte, which can bring home the Merfolk matchup home. Other cards.. Viridian Shaman is a must, and everything else depends on the meta. Other combo decks really doesn't expect Chalice of the Void to be played in elves, so I opt to play that one. Chalice on 0 wrecks :) You can side out Summoner's Pacts or some elves to fit it there, so it's really not a problem. Other cards.. Pendelhaven, to save Wirewoods, Mycoloth is an option too. Oh, and Faerie Macabres should be in the sideboard too. But really, depends on the meta..

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Thats why i use Emrakul in my list. Its uncounterable and kills my opponent. Banefire can be misdirected. And stifle is in the format, so grapeshot doesn't seem to good.

I do like 1 Elvish Champion and 3 Imperious Perfect. 1x Chalice seems hot. And mycoloth is a great answer to Firespout to! thanks guys!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Augustas

Banefire vs. Grapeshot

Grapeshot is x times better than Banefire. They have to deal with other copies of it, it can clear your opponent's side if needed and you can always re-use it with Eternal Witness.

As for sideboard, Jdepends on the build really. I personally like Elvish Champion the most, so I keep three of them, and I also play three Jitte, which can bring home the Merfolk matchup home. Other cards.. Viridian Shaman is a must, and everything else depends on the meta. Other combo decks really doesn't expect Chalice of the Void to be played in elves, so I opt to play that one. Chalice on 0 wrecks :) You can side out Summoner's Pacts or some elves to fit it there, so it's really not a problem. Other cards.. Pendelhaven, to save Wirewoods, Mycoloth is an option too. Oh, and Faerie Macabres should be in the sideboard too. But really, depends on the meta..

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I can't see how you would reach a storm count of 19 that easy... And the rest of the reply doesn't actually respond to my post that much since it's not a breakdown of the list I'm running. I'm not running EW or any other of the cards. Would be glad if ppl actually gives more valuable input than "It's better, run it", I wanna know... Why.

Hey guys, I just recently played a tournament with the list below, so I thought I would post about it. It was a 45 man legacy tournament with the first prize as a mox pearl. I ranked 15th, so did not make the top 8 :(

DECK I used (note that certain card choices are budget restraints):

---1cc Creatures (27)
4 nettle sentinel
4 heritage druid
4 birchlore ranger
4 Quirion Ranger
4 wirewood symbiote
3 fyndhorn elves
4 llanowar elves

---2cc Creatures (6)
3 elvish visionary
3 priest of titania

---4+cc Creatures (2)
1 regal force
1 emrakul, the aeons torn

---Spells (12)
4 glimpse of nature
4 summoner's pact
4 weird harvest

---Mana Base (13)
13 forests

---Sideboard (15)
*3 relic of progenitus
*2 tormod's crypt
*3 viridian zealot
*1 viridian shaman
*1 leyline of lifeforce
*1 reverent silence
*2 umezawa's jitte
*2 elvish champion


---


ROUND 1
opponent: aggro elves
game 1 and game 2: combo turn 3 and 4 ftw.
result: 2-0

ROUND 2
opponent: midrange zoo (a roguish RGB deck, but similar to zoo)
game 1: combo turn 3.
game 2: he plays engineered plague turn 2 with birds of paradise and I don't draw any solutions.
game 3: I keep a non-combo hand because it has a lord and a jitte in it. He plays engineered plague again, but my lord is already out, and I'm hitting with jitte+forest walk every turn and wreaking his creatures. Eventually he pulls out a second engineered plague, but I had tutored and played my second lord the turn just before.
result: 2-1

ROUND 3
opponent: RB goblins
game 1: attempt to combo turn 2, fizzle after about 10 draws. pact for regal force turn 3, play him, draw into a glimpse and combo ftw.
game 2: mulligan down to six, attempt to combo by ramping up to regal force, but its 1 turn too slow and he runs me over with goblin crazyness.
game 3: mulligan down to 5, he has a hand loaded with removal from his sideboard and keeps all my key creatures in the graveyard, then beats me down.
1-2

ROUND 4
opponent: high tide
game 1: I combo'd faster than him.
game 2: he got mana screwed.
2-0

ROUND 5
opponent: stax
game 1: turn 1 chalice for 1, gg.
game 2: lasted about 20 minutes, but he finally locked me down and killed me with a mishra :(
0-2

Based on what I experienced and tested (and some lists posted here), this is the next list I'd like to try (once I get the money cards like NO and survival):

***GLIMPSE ELVES***

***1 mana*** 25
4 nettle sentinel
4 heritage druid
4 birchlore ranger
4 Quirion Ranger
4 wirewood symbiote
2 fyndhorn elves
3 lanawar elves

***2 mana*** 3
3 elvish visionary

***3-4 mana*** 3
1 viridian shaman
1 mirror entity
1 masked admirers

***fatties*** 2
1 regal force
1 progenitus

***spells*** 12
2 summoner's pact
3 natural order
4 glimpse of nature
3 survival of the fittest

***mana base*** 15
1 horizon canopy
1 pendelhaven
4 Windswept Heath
2 savannah
7 forest

***sideboard*** 15
*2 relic of progenitus
*2 tormod's crypt
*4 krosan grip
*2 reverent silence
*1 viridian shaman
*1 natural order
*1 elvish champion
*2 umezawa's jitte

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hawdes

I can't see how you would reach a storm count of 19 that easy... And the rest of the reply doesn't actually respond to my post that much since it's not a breakdown of the list I'm running. I'm not running EW or any other of the cards. Would be glad if ppl actually gives more valuable input than "It's better, run it", I wanna know... Why.

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Seriously, have you played with the deck? They can't Stifle you every time, and Eternal Witness is there for a reason. Let's say, you have a gold hand, a turn 2 kill. Any FoWs or Dazes will stop you if you don't have Guide or something in your hand, so let's say they don't have it.

you play Llanowar, a forest, he playes whatever one drop (depends on the match)

You don't have a second land drop, but it doesn't matter.

Llanowar and a Forest is already two floating mana.

You play a Glimpse and let's say a Quirion.

You draw a card, and have two floating mana again. Storm count is two. You play something like Birchlore, Heritage with your land, you have three untapped elves. Tap them for 3 mana. You play another three or two cards which consumes your mana, but still adds the storm count. So, every Heritage tap will give you at least three or two Storm, and you still need your mana to keep playing creatures. And remember that there's many games when you actually get only one Nettle or something, and eventually can run out of gas. And yet again, Grapeshot doesn't need three Nettles to get you that 20. That's an example how my deck works, and why I prefer Grapeshot. But, if you like that "can't be countered" line, it's up to you what your win condition will be.

Speaking of Emrakul, I don't think that's a brilliant idea to play it with 4 Summoner's Pacts, that's why I try to avoid it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Augustas

Seriously, have you played with the deck? They can't Stifle you every time, and Eternal Witness is there for a reason. Let's say, you have a gold hand, a turn 2 kill. Any FoWs or Dazes will stop you if you don't have Guide or something in your hand, so let's say they don't have it.

you play Llanowar, a forest, he playes whatever one drop (depends on the match)

You don't have a second land drop, but it doesn't matter.

Llanowar and a Forest is already two floating mana.

You play a Glimpse and let's say a Quirion.

You draw a card, and have two floating mana again. Storm count is two. You play something like Birchlore, Heritage with your land, you have three untapped elves. Tap them for 3 mana. You play another three or two cards which consumes your mana, but still adds the storm count. So, every Heritage tap will give you at least three or two Storm, and you still need your mana to keep playing creatures. And remember that there's many games when you actually get only one Nettle or something, and eventually can run out of gas. And yet again, Grapeshot doesn't need three Nettles to get you that 20. That's an example how my deck works, and why I prefer Grapeshot. But, if you like that "can't be countered" line, it's up to you what your win condition will be.

Speaking of Emrakul, I don't think that's a brilliant idea to play it with 4 Summoner's Pacts, that's why I try to avoid it.

---

I run Emrakul over grapeshot because Emrakul gets around cards like Moat, Solitary Confinement, and Stifle, where Grapeshot really doesn't. You can't duress Emrakul out, and if you thoughtsieze/ brainfreeze it away, it shuffles everything back in.

Also, I notice that you randomly have 15 mana on board to just cast Emrakul. The Lords and other mana elves help greatly. If you draw Grapeshot without any combo pieces (ie Glimpse) its almost dead. If you draw Emrakul, you can push mana out to cast it.

The good thing about grapeshot is that it is damn near impossible to counter, twice. Also, it can be used as removal by going elf, elf ,elf, etc., grapeshot your team, attack. You can also aim a small grapeshot at your opponent, and then attack for game.

I prefer Emrakul be cause it IS uncounterable. It has Annihilator 6, and so it wrecks boards. You don't even need to deal damage, just declare it as an attacker. And it doesn't require you to combo to play ftw, you can just make 15 mana and then cast him.

So I can see the goods in both. Also, casting Emrakul ftw is just bad ass. It gets around Chalice, etc. haha. I have been dead in the water, against goblins, with two archdruids and elves in play. My opponent just tutored for and cast sharpshooter, and i know he had double Gempalm incinerator in hand for my lords (He showed me assuming I would scoop.) I draw Emrakul, cast it, untap and just crush his dreams.

I have also been locked out of the board against enchantress, he had moat, solitary confinement, and multiple draw engines going with his enchantments. I draw go for ever, while he tried to find his win con (Words of War). He finds it, drops it, and passes. I draw glimpse, return an elf, replay it, draw emrakul, cast him (Tapping out), untap attack with emrakul, he sacs most of his board. I pass, he draws shoots my elfs for 2, and passes. I go to combat, and he scoops.

A lot of decks can't deal with Annihilator, flying, protection from colored spells, 15/15, timewalking monsters.

How is he bad with multiple Summoner's Pacts? If you have 15 mana to cast Emrakul, then you have 4,8, or 12 mana to pay for the Pact triggers.
I only run 2 pacts, so therefore it isn't hard. I think my list is *almost* perfect, for me at least. I might cut a land for another Fyndhorn Elf.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Augustas

Seriously, have you played with the deck? They can't Stifle you every time, and Eternal Witness is there for a reason. Let's say, you have a gold hand, a turn 2 kill. Any FoWs or Dazes will stop you if you don't have Guide or something in your hand, so let's say they don't have it.

you play Llanowar, a forest, he playes whatever one drop (depends on the match)

You don't have a second land drop, but it doesn't matter.

Llanowar and a Forest is already two floating mana.

You play a Glimpse and let's say a Quirion.

You draw a card, and have two floating mana again. Storm count is two. You play something like Birchlore, Heritage with your land, you have three untapped elves. Tap them for 3 mana. You play another three or two cards which consumes your mana, but still adds the storm count. So, every Heritage tap will give you at least three or two Storm, and you still need your mana to keep playing creatures. And remember that there's many games when you actually get only one Nettle or something, and eventually can run out of gas. And yet again, Grapeshot doesn't need three Nettles to get you that 20. That's an example how my deck works, and why I prefer Grapeshot. But, if you like that "can't be countered" line, it's up to you what your win condition will be.

Speaking of Emrakul, I don't think that's a brilliant idea to play it with 4 Summoner's Pacts, that's why I try to avoid it.

---

I never said that I wouldn't play Grapeshot cause of stifle. But I might add Grapeshot along side Banefire aswell. Could be good to have 2 routes to go.

I've already stated earlier in this thread that when it comes to deckbuilding, it really depends on the way you look at it. Elves have a lot of possibilities, every deck posted here is different, and this fact is awesome. Every card can make a difference, so play whatever suits your playstyle the best.

None of us can find the "perfect build", this deck absolutely different from stuff like Belcher or ANT. We actually have to adapt our builds to the metagame in order to succeed. That's why I really don't like Jon Stewart's continious bawling how he doesn't understand how people can actually play Nettle Sentinel and Regal Force. It's just plain stupid.

So, I suggest everyone to calm down and don't push your opinion to others too much. As long as you are able to draw large amaount of cards, have tons of mana and a horde of elves, you're going to right direction.

And yeah, my build is the best, you definitely should play it over the others.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Augustas

I've already stated earlier in this thread that when it comes to deckbuilding, it really depends on the way you look at it. Elves have a lot of possibilities, every deck posted here is different, and this fact is awesome. Every card can make a difference, so play whatever suits your playstyle the best.

None of us can find the "perfect build", this deck absolutely different from stuff like Belcher or ANT. We actually have to adapt our builds to the metagame in order to succeed. That's why I really don't like Jon Stewart's continious bawling how he doesn't understand how people can actually play Nettle Sentinel and Regal Force. It's just plain stupid.

So, I suggest everyone to calm down and don't push your opinion to others too much. As long as you are able to draw large amaount of cards, have tons of mana and a horde of elves, you're going to right direction.

And yeah, my build is the best, you definitely should play it over the others.

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Agreed. I too don't understand how Jon Stewart runs his list without the backbone of the deck. But you are right, as long as they do the same basic thing, the deck is going in the right direction.
I'm pretty sure the win condition doesn't matter either. If you get another turn, you still untap and win right? Most decks can't deal with a horde of angry elves.

Lol, a friend of mine asked me what my back up win condition is, if I get Sadistic Saced or something, I said....The deck IS a back up win con. We both had a laugh.

Your deck sucks btw. Mine is definetly the best.


EMRAKUL FTW!

MAIN DECK

4 Birchlore Rangers
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Heritage Druid
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Priest of Titania
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Sylvan Messenger
2 Wirewood Symbiote
Creatures [38]

3 Concordant Crossroads
4 Glimpse of Nature
1 Grapeshot
Spells [8]

10 Forest
4 Pendelhaven
Lands [14]

is the deck I think I'm going to settle with for now, its cheap, and I can upgrade/tweek it as I play it a little more and learn my meta. If there are any SMALL tweeks I should make please point it out.

Thanks for all the advice throughout the thread <3

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Neuad

MAIN DECK

4 Birchlore Rangers
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Heritage Druid
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Priest of Titania
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Sylvan Messenger
2 Wirewood Symbiote
Creatures [38]

3 Concordant Crossroads
4 Glimpse of Nature
1 Grapeshot
Spells [8]

10 Forest
4 Pendelhaven
Lands [14]

is the deck I think I'm going to settle with for now, its cheap, and I can upgrade/tweek it as I play it a little more and learn my meta. If there are any SMALL tweeks I should make please point it out.

Thanks for all the advice throughout the thread <3

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It's cool, but Pendelhaven is a Legendary land, so I suggest to cut them for fetches or cut three for three forests.

If I can get ahold of Fetches, or possibly a couple Taigas I'm putting them in, but those are a little expensive. Thanks for pointing out that Pendelhaven is legendary. . .missed that!


Sylvan Messenger. Are they worth keeping in at 4cc over Visionarys at 2cc?

Or better yet, bounce 1 Forest (bringing the total in my deck to 12 Forests, 1 Pendelhaven) and adding in a Gaea's Cradle, and 4 Arbor Elves. . . . ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Felidae

@ccman: You might add a Taiga in order to get Anger working ;). (Please excuse my random trolling in this thread)

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lol my list got messed up just -2 forest +2 taiga

fetches help

@ccman and others playing survival in combo elves:

why masked admirers is better than squee?

i understand that if we can make the mana it let us roll over our deck, but there are more times when we're slowplaying with survival online and i miss squee in those situations.

in fact my testing is not as developed than yours, so i only want to understand it a little better.

thx.

thorin

@thorin-

the main reason for admirers is this, when your slow rolling you can make a ton of mana even when not comboing and it works the same then except it comes back when you cast the creature which you probably want to do anyway. also what if you need to combo this turn but because of squee's disadvantage you can't get heritage and nettle? well your screwed i guress. i guess if you don't have mana thats a rpoblem but that doesnt happen very often and if it does you've lost anyway

end of the line is that because of all our mana admirer's lets us just dump combo pieces, protection, and win conditions way faster than squee

(also masked admirers is easier to protect from grave hate)