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I know this will eat space in an already tight deck list but has anyone thought of using crop rotation into a karoo land to bonce your cloudpost in response to a wasteland?
I loved the deck when I played it with borrowed candelabras (had to give them back):frown:
read the Karoo land again...
I was working on this deck a while ago; I don't still have the list. But here's what I found out:
*) The Eldrazi plan is cute but somewhat unnecessary. I jammed 4 Primeval Titan, and they would just always ramp me to an Eldrazi the next turn.
*) Candelabra of Tawnos is overkill; it helps you run out a turn 4 Emrakul or something, but if you want that, you should probably play more than 3. The deck was already low on threats.
*) Expedition Map was kind of sweet, but Trinket Mage -> Expedition Map was a million mana.
*) Mox Diamond was cool for fixing my mana.
You can probably also support Brainstorm and maybe even Daze and Force.
I don't understand why you'd reinvent the wheel instead of starting from the Modern lists.
Xe would love to see your list. Personally I don't play the UG version anymore (for many many reasons), but it's cool to watch some lists...
Im glad someone giving the deck a different point of view.
A resolved primeval titan + 1 attack gives enough mana for emrakul. This is true, however, if its delt with after resolution the +2 lands in itself wont give u the eldrazi.
Candelabra is sometimes overkill but it has many time won me games as its usually -1 turn for emrakul. It can be used to power out a 3rd turn primeval too(without exploration).
The countersuite would be ideal for the deck, there are some problems though. Daze's problem is the requirement for an island, witch means you have to go island/tropical first. Dont know if this really is a problem. Force would require a bigger set of blue cards to work, this could in addition to daze and force itself be brainstorm/trinket mage/intuition, which would most likely take the place of senseis top and some land tutors
The BU version is slower than the mono-g version but more resilent. I havent tried out the GW version with enlightened tutor though.
Please post your decklist and any possible testings. I'm gonna run the mono-g build next weekend in a 90 person tournament, will be back for a report of some kind after
Are you sure that this deck needs U for control ? Face it clearly : The goal is to create 20 mana to win, as soon as possible. This has nothing to do with "control". Its all about speed. Dont lose time to wait with FoW in hand, just to counter something stupid. Find the lands, drop them in the battlefield, find the Em, and win. If you delay your game you have to face more opponent's threats.
My version has, 2,58 average mana cost including Eldrazis, with 24 cards in cc1. 4 cards with 2cc, and 3 cards in 3cc. I built that decklist having in mind defence againsts hordes of creatures, Wastelands, and Planeswalkers. With support from sideboard, I can fight Combos as well.
// Lands
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [TSP] Vesuva
3 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
4 [R] Savannah
1 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
1 [LG] Karakas
// Creatures
2 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
2 [M11] Primeval Titan
// Spells
3 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [US] Exploration
4 [MR] Sylvan Scrying
4 [ZEN] Expedition Map
3 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [10E] Pithing Needle
4 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [MR] Oblivion Stone
SB: 3 [DS] Trinisphere
SB: 3 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 1 [ROE] All Is Dust
SB: 2 [UL] Harmonic Convergence
First move : Go for the Exploration.
Second Move : Needle Wasteland
Glacial Chasm is your only good Defence, so protect it. Set up a scenery with Exploration & Crucible, and play again and again Glacial Chasm, without paying life, or losing lands (the land you lose, return it into game with Crusible, as the 2nd land from Exploration). You can grow up this combo by casting a 2nd Exploration and draw cards with Horizon Canopy as you sacrifice it again and again, and put it into play as a 3rd land. Your mana base is getting bigger. All your spells cost 1 or 2. Its extremely easy to win. You have 20 cards that search or look for something. You dont need Brainstorm, you already have what you need. You dont need FoW, you empty your hand in a few turns. All your spells point your destination. There is no room in my mind for anything else. Opponent can't counter everything.
Im not sure about Primeval Titan. I know it sounds strange, because Primeval has won me games. But more often gets exiled and 2 lands may not help a lot. Im testing Defense of the Heart with 1 Forbidden Orchard. Opponent has 1 turn to destroy it. Orchant is good against Hive Mind too.
How has chasm and enlightened tutor been working out? Im not gonna do tutor, but I might add the chasm as I have the cruicible+exploration package already
Tutor got his place from the need for an early Exploration. I already had a tutor, the trinket mage. But he was slow and couldn't get me Exploration or Crucible when the things where going wrong. This tutor is superior to mage.
About Chasm, I have no words to describe. I have won games and games just because Chasm gave me 1-2 turns until I find time to stabilize it. if I get the lock (with a Needle for wasteland) it's very difficult for the opponent. But it is usefully even alone. I will not replace this card, ever.
the problem is that I want to add more lands but there is no room for them and I don't know what to cut. Like Buried Ruin and Maze of Ith. Any help for the mama base please ?
Has anyone considered Tangle Wire or Winter Orb to slow down the opponent a bit? I think Wire could be a good, and it's not dificult to cast it in our second turn.
i've been using tangle wire in my prison decks. it's a bit slow vs a lot and it doesn't really do much vs the flash-based creature decks. i've thought about root maze for a while. maybe worth a try?
Winter Orb sounds like a bad idea but tangle wire could work.
I played in the nationals(103 players) with this list:
1 Karakas
4 Cloudpost
4 Vesuva
4 Glimmerpost
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Eye oF Ugin
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Wooded Foothills
5 Forest
1 Maze of Ith
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Sensei's Divining top
4 Crop Rotation
4 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Expedition Map
3 Sylvan Scrying
2 Emrakul, The Aeons Thorn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
2 Primeval Titan
3 Crucible of Worlds
4 Exploration
3 Oblivion Stone
1 All is Dust
SB
2 Tormods crypt
2 Krosan Grip
2 Choke
3 Trinisphere
3 Mindbreak Trap
3 Pithing needle
First notes: I sided in pithing needle in all matches as ALL opponents had at least 3 wastelands.
Game 1 (2-0) UBG control with jace and deed. I drew really good and theres nothing more to say here, it was 2-0
Game 2 (2-0) BGR goyf-confidant-bolt. Game 1 I oblivion stone his threats and win. Game 2 he mulls to 5 and gets stuck on one land
Game 3(2-1) RUG tempo with surgical extration main. Yeah, game 1 he wasteland - extractions my cloudposts and I dont recover. Game 2 I get needle on wasteland and get an emrakul before he beats me down. Game 3 he dazes my first needle and forces my second, so Im pretty sure he has waste+extraction. I play around it though and manage to make him take my vesuvas instead by making vesuva a copy of his wasteland. This eventually wins the game when I manage to get the emrakul mana
Game 4(0-2) BUG tempo. Game 1 mull to 5, he wastelands me and I dont recover from fast delver beats. Game 2 I get a needle on wasteland, but he has a fast clock with double delver and confidant. Only game today that felt impossible to win
Game 5(2-1) MonoB control with Liliana, smallpox, pox and nether spirit. Game 1 he gets ulti with liliana and I cant recover. Game 2 and 3 the deck does what it does against a slow clock
Game 6(0-2) UR Delver-burn. Price of progress; nuff said
Game 7(2-1) UW stoneblade. Game 1 i mull to 4 but manage to stabilize and get chasm lock on him as he really doesnt put me on a clock. Game 2 I lose to a Geist of saint traft and wastelands. Game 3 not much to say, oblivion stone and crucible wins the game
I finished 5-2 and got to 11 place / 103 and won some credits for the store
Overall I was really pleased with the deck and eventhough I played against wasteland.dec all day long I didnt get paired against combo decks. There were a lot of maverick though, and that would have been an easy MU.
Glacial chasm was amazing, Karakas was useless(due to MU:s) and oblivion stone was good.
Also, Surgical extraction is a pain in the ass because you need to fear it game 2-3 against most decks right now
So, you confirm my words, that everybody loves Wasteland. I told you that and that's why I play 3 Needles maindeck. With Needle you could stop Lilliana too.
About mulligans try to shuffle properly, making 10 slots on the table, and put cards clockwised.
Karakas is useful to return your Eldrazi for protection from S.Extraction. Or deal with any legendary reanimated creature.
congratulations for your wins. It's really a big thing to finish 11th among 100.
Yep I'm gonna put some of the needles MD, not sure to cut though. I'm aware of the karakas shenanigans with emrakul, they just weren't needed today. I might try out the e-tutor package too, next weekend will be a smaller tournamentQuote:
Originally Posted by MeddlingMageGR
I payed attention to the shuffling and put some time in it too, I think I was just unlucky in some games
EDIT: I might actually try cutting one emrakul and leave the karakas. I didnt need the second one in any games and its poor in ur opening 7
Cut 1 Crop Rotation and 1 Candelabra for start. I suggest cut All is Dust too. 3 Oblivion Stones plus the ability to fetch them with tutors are enough. But seriously, you must find slots for all of them... Think strongly what you must leave behind...
Sure I had at least three Wastelands and saw none, and went to a little tilt after the match (nice pairing). Things started looking up as I won my next two matches only to find you 3-0! Pity you didn't make top 8.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xtreme
There were only 99 players BTW.
Yep the pairing was quite nice:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Nastaboi
It's a pity, maybe better luck next time. The deck is powerful to say the least
first time poster, long time reader.
i love this deck, been playing it since glimmerpost was printed and the deck list shown up online (probably by its creator).
i took a break from MTG when mental misstep was printed, getting my candelabra of tawnos or crop rotation MMed was just to frustrating.
now im thinking in returning to MTG since MM was banned, but i used to run the show and tell version (G/U) with 4 titans and i had reasonable success (show and telling a titan open up so many awsome plays in this deck).
but from what ive seen people seem to be playing mono G or G/W versions with explorations now, i was wondering if this is the most success version atm?
also The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale seems to be out and maze of ith in?
just asking because i dont own any exploration or Enlightened Tutor (and theyre a bit expensive, dont mind buying them if theyre really worth it) and i was wondering if thats the best version to go now? i have every other card though.
thanks in advance.
edit: card tags
Quote:
Originally Posted by sap
Cant tell really for sure, Meddlingmage has had some success with both Gu and Gw lists, I have yet to try out the Gw list, but Im running the mono-g atm. When I have the energy I will try out enlightened tutor package though.
To be honest I havent tried out the show and tell-version either, but my guess would be that it is less consistent than a version without it, i.e, just sticking to the main plan - lands out and emrakul on table
thanks for the reply, just checked your deck list, seems really cool to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xtreme
to fight wasteland i've tried everything, from crucible of worlds to pithing needle (but never tried them together in the MD) but having 3 + 3 + 4 (crop rotation) thats 10 answers to wasteland, i like! even better because MM is banned (yes i hated that card).
just one last question, seems like The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale is out of any recent list, i remember it saved my ass a few times, but there wasnt any tunr 2 2/3 flyer (delver of secrets) at the time. also with all the stoneforge mystic and equipments floating around maybe avoiding one single creature damage is way batter than waste their mana for 1-2 turns.
Quote:
Originally Posted by moseby
Now you can't use a Karoo style land, but you most definitely can use a Lair land in this way. Weird answer, but might be good as a one of.