Printable View
I think to really make an impact, it would need to be a decent creature that also gets you further benefits when it extorts. As mentioned above, something like Pridemate, or discard, or whatever else benefit you could get out of those colors.Quote:
Originally Posted by lyracian
E.g. something like "If an opponent has lost life and you gained life this turn, do stuff". Would also work wonders with lifelink, which is also a shared ability between those colors.
A 1-mana extort card could see fringe play if you've got ways of abusing it by casting lots of spells for low or no cost (such as when you have 2 Tops out). It would see play in some Gravecrawler deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by lyracian
Four words. Gitaxian Probe. Surgical Extraction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenpoe
Hell, you could play a ton of Phyrexian-mana cards with a one-drop Extort guy. It gives both White and Black a fair bit of reach and burn. Hell, even Affinity would be somewhat interested on a one-drop Extort guy in either color, and if it were both...then Junk would probably see a considerable power-boost.
:w:/:b: 1/1 hybrid guy with Extort? I could dig that. It would black give also quite a bit of reach when combined with DRS (who can also provide mana for Extort shenanigans).Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkenslight
In Legacy, most of the time, 1 mana is worth more than 2 life difference. (That's what makes the phyrexian mana cards so exciting.) I expect the ability to be marginal, at best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkenslight
If there is a cheap guy I could see it in Zombies. Sam black did play blood artist for awhile. Obviously artist is better, but on a 1 drop that can be aggresive with extort may be borderline playable. Blood artist was just bad because it being a 0/1 made it essentially an easy to remove enchantment
Yeah I keep going back and forth on Extort. Even if Orzhov wants to be the grindy late-game taxman color combination, they still have to actually have the mana to pay that shitty :wb: kicker. I mean, like, it's kinda cool that you can Duress or Path to Exile something and control 2-3 Extort guys and gain some life off of it, but this reminds me of 'old bad life gain', like... like pre-Exalted Angel lifegain. One of the first lessons I had in Magic as an ubernoob was that lifegain had to be super reliable to work, and even then it was bad because it was virtually never actively winning the game for you - much to the chagrin of every noob ever that rocked Life Burst in random GW aggro. It wasn't until Exalted Angel showed up that people started to look at lifelink effects as a favorable means towards a control-oriented victory. Really what successful life gain strategies existed before decks that could play Exalted Angel, Life.dec notwithstanding (since that was essentially a 3-card combo that didn't always win you the game).
I mean, why tax yourself, I guess. Even if it is turn 42 and you're dropping awesome.... 4/4s for 6, apparently.... why spent that extra :wb: to get a little life. The only way it can be cool is if there are other cards that trigger if you gain life or someone else loses it. Otherwise it just makes you grind for no reason and makes it harder to curve out.
I think you missed the part where you also cause life loss to the opponent. 1 mana for 1 damage may seem inefficient, but as long as it's not the only thing making the card(s) playable, then I don't see the problem. Being able to pay 1 mana for 1 damage and 1 point of lifegain every time you cast a spell might be unimpressive at the beginning of the game, but it would supplement a midgame strategy beautifully. This is an Orzhov ability, and it seems pretty good with your traditional Deadguy spells, especially in the midrange token versions with Lingering Souls, Bitterblossom, Elspeth/Sorin, etc.Quote:
Yeah I keep going back and forth on Extort. Even if Orzhov wants to be the grindy late-game taxman color combination, they still have to actually have the mana to pay that shitty kicker. I mean, like, it's kinda cool that you can Duress or Path to Exile something and control 2-3 Extort guys and gain some life off of it, but this reminds me of 'old bad life gain', like... like pre-Exalted Angel lifegain. One of the first lessons I had in Magic as an ubernoob was that lifegain had to be super reliable to work, and even then it was bad because it was virtually never actively winning the game for you - much to the chagrin of every noob ever that rocked Life Burst in random GW aggro. It wasn't until Exalted Angel showed up that people started to look at lifelink effects as a favorable means towards a control-oriented victory. Really what successful life gain strategies existed before decks that could play Exalted Angel, Life.dec notwithstanding (since that was essentially a 3-card combo that didn't always win you the game).
I mean, why tax yourself, I guess. Even if it is turn 42 and you're dropping awesome.... 4/4s for 6, apparently.... why spent that extra to get a little life. The only way it can be cool is if there are other cards that trigger if you gain life or someone else loses it. Otherwise it just makes you grind for no reason and makes it harder to curve out.
Obviously, if they print crappy Extort guys, the mechanic is a bust. But that goes without saying, no?
I didn't forget, I just think it's mainly irrelevant. vOvQuote:
Originally Posted by Hanni
It will be really cool if it is on some tough-as-nails creatures that are removal resistant, and then you just maintain board position with discard effects and trade life points incidentally to ensure your board position is relevant. Else, eh.
Unless it can hit the rare kind of expendable-yet-playable creature (either 187 guys or card drawers), Extort's best chances probably come from being put on some useful noncreature permanents. The kind of deck that would want to actually spend mana on extortion is likely to also be the kind of deck that wipes the board with regularity.
This is true too, and it's something I'd briefly considered bringing up. Exalted is really good at doing this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihil Credo
It could help in archetypes that are looking for a little more reach. A 2/1 for W with extort is unlikely to see print, but would have some potential.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihil Credo
Cipher is...interesting. It is certainly a very Dimir mechanic: turn your creatures into agents executing your plan. I'm just kind of disappointed it still involves creatures; every mechanic in this set save Extort involves needing creatures in some way. That said, if this is Dimir's mechanic, I'm worried they're going to be the Izzet of this set: largely overshadowed by all the other guilds and only draftable alone under certain conditions (the "All Frostburn Weird Aggro" deck becomes the "Turbo Mill" deck). I'm especially worried about it in a set with both Boros and Gruul acting as two very heavy-hitting combat guilds. Gruul feels like it may be the hard counter to Dimir's shenanigans unless Dimir has a healthy dose of Orzhov or Simic as backup.
http://media.wizards.com/images/magi...t6jxefc_01.png
Not a terrible mechanic. About on par with enchanting something, except you might actually never end up losing card advantage b/c the effect happens at least once (when you cast it). The wording is weird-ish, but the effect will be fun to play with.
I still kind of like Battalion better. :B
Oh man. Im already brewing a bad invisible stalker deck...
Whispering Madness is Windfall for an extra mana, pretty cool. It's safe to say that Wizards is interested in reprinting banned cards in fairer versions (Temporal Mastery, Reforge the Soul, Ancestral Visions, etc). Could see play in TES instead of Diminishing Returns since 2UB is easier than 2UU, though. As for the keyword, cipher=free casting of spells, which tends to be pretty powerful.
Well, the power is held in check by needing to connect with a creature. Invisible Stalker aside, it's probably much less dangerous than, say, Phyrexian mana.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenpoe
On a different note, it's nice to see Cipher works well with Dimir Infiltrator.
Yea.... havent we seen this before... free spells...
After the ninth failed attempt at making a free spell mechanic last year, they make a free spell Windfall for 4 mana. Not just free spells- repeatable free spells yay! Brilliant work at R&D as usual.
It's also nearly as clunky as Haunt from a comprehension perspective, and has terrible artwork. Hitting on all cylinders.
Two words:
Dream Salvage.
New storm combo archetype acquired.
EDIT:
The cards were made for each other.. notice..
Whispering Madness, Dream Salvage.
WMDs