Of course, this means that you are using turn 2 for something other than disruption. Turns 1 and 2 are this deck's bread and butter. Good luck with that card, you're going to need it.
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Of course, this means that you are using turn 2 for something other than disruption. Turns 1 and 2 are this deck's bread and butter. Good luck with that card, you're going to need it.
This, to me, suggests Pox. After you've cast a Sinkhole or a Hymn, Pox can finish your job for you. The nice thing about it is that it finishes either job for you. I know it's taking the deck in a completely different direction, but is it necessarily a bad one? (I'm almost certainly completely off base in suggesting Pox in any deck, I'm just looking for people to think about it)Quote:
Originally Posted by GodzillA
Well, your analysis of Pox's function is pretty accurate. The card's strength lies in its ability to simultaneously attack almost every one of your opponent's resources. The chances for Pox to put pressure on the scarce resource is very high.
Of course, Pox has its problems, too. The fact that it is symmetrical hurts, as does the fact that it is a 3 mana sorcery. Infernal Tutor shares some of Pox's strength, but is also an expensive sorcery (factoring in whatever you fetch with it), and will generally generate a much less powerful effect for the cost (1BBB to destroy a land is objectively very weak). Tutor is also conditional.
Pox can't be run in Deadguy because of its interaction with creatures, so Tutor certainly gets the edge in this application. I guess it's worth testing, but I'm skeptical.
You could run merely two Tutors, perhaps cutting a Scroll for one, so that you would get a reasonable amount of Hellbent use out of them. Then, when the Scroll would be useful, you could use the 3 mana (or perhaps 4) to grab whatever piece of disruption would seal the game.
I played Pox for awhile. Let me tell you, boy is that spell worth it. Anyone here that plays Deadguy avidly but hasnt picked up that deck probably should. I really dont see the strengths Deadguy has in comparision.
ObFreely: I wasn't suggesting that we put Pox in Deadguy as is so much as I was suggesting that we take all the creatures out, and then put Pox in. That necessitates some Nether Spirits and maybe a couple Crucibles, possibly some Mishra's Factories or Chimeric Idols, but otherwise you've got essentially the same decklist.
I was at work today, and I was wondering how hard it would be on the mana-base to dplash green for Pernicious deed. I've played the deck, and I feel it's lacking a sweeper like this. I think it would vastly improve the Goblins matchup, and turn the Thresh matchup from bad to worse (for them). Also, it's a pretty sweet card versus Rifter.
I know the mana-base would have to be overhauled, and I was thinking something like this:
4 Swamp
3 Scrubland
3 Bayou
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
4 Wasteland
This is just an example, I figured more sac-lands was better than more duals so it gives the player more choices, but with needles out there, I don't know if that's true.
I guess I would run the the deeds in the Verdict/Plague/StP slot (depending on the build) but def keep some StPs around (at least 2). Green offers some other interesting board options, but that's putting the cart before the horse.
1) Is this possible?
AND
2) Is this worth it?
You'd have a list very similar to my B/w Pox list from over a year ago. It's quite decent, but not particularly superior to Deadguy in its current form. Dark Confidant alone goes a long way in making the archetype viable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lego_Army_Man
@ Phantom: Phantom, very intersting strategy you got working there. I do like pernicious deed, but I'm not fully sold on the idea of making your mana base weaker than it is by splashing a third color. There are also way too many non-basic lands. Your mana base consists of only 4 basics, and although you do have the fetch utility with 8 fetchlands, I believe that a decent player with a pithing needle can really wreck your day. I think that the cons outweigh the pros in this one.. but of course.. I could be wrong. I would suggest consulting Zach Fine. He knows much more about magic than I do.
In light of my experience at K'sDLD, I tested the B/W Confidant vs Solidarity match-up. In this latest round of testing, Confidant trounced Solidarity, game after game. This is in stark contrast to the tournament, where the two most difficult match-ups I played the entire day were Solidarity. This could be explained in part:
- My opponents at the tournament were obviously very good Solidarity players, given that I faced one of them Round Five at Table Two, and the other I faced in the top eight. It is just possible that they were a wee bit better with the deck than my opposing playtester. (I was also handicapped in the top eight in that my opponent knew what I was playing, but I didn't know what he was playing. Buh-bye Game One.)
- I also had limited experience against, and no experience with, Solidarity, so I didn't realize that Solidarity has exactly four threat cards total against B/W: 4x High Tide. Without understanding the match-up, I certainly didn't plan accordingly.
The latest testing results also contradict my pre-tournament testing, where Solidarity successfully went off with such regularity against Confidant that I basically decided to call the match-up a total loss and concentrate on boarding and tweaking for other more commonly played decks.
I guess I feel that, while Confidant does have game against Solidarity, the match-up is very dependent on the opening hand (or mulligan) of both decks, and therefore a little too random for my liking. I'd like to see that randomness reduced by boarding some Unmasks in place of some of the abundant creature kill in the sideboard. Obviously, the idea is to increase the likelihood of picking out that opening hand High Tide, or whatever nasty threat/answer your opponent might have. In addition, Unmask is rarely a dead card against any deck.
Another possibile answer would be Chalice of the Void set to one. Yes, it would stop Duress and Dark Ritual, but, generally speaking, they only seem to make a difference on turn one of this match-up. It would also stop a large part of the Solidarity player's deck, including the key card. I like this answer, because he can't just draw into another win condition, he has to dig as best he can to wish for bounce, while I race him with creatures. Chalice also hates on several other top decks.
[SCRUB ALERT]
The other fun thought I had was to board Nightcreeps. Play it in response to the first High Tide, and hope that he wastes enough resources countering it to force a combo-fizzle. One drawback to this idea is that Nightcreep is only marginally useful against most other decks. Another drawback is that Confidant generally doesn't like to keep mana open, so waiting for that High Tide doesn't necessarily mesh with the game plan. On the plus side, how much fun would it be to thwart your opponent by turning his Islands into Swamps!
[/SCRUB ALERT]
@Drathro: If a deck running main deck Duress, Hymn, Sinkhole, Vindicate, and Hypnotic Specter can't beat Solidarity I think that says something about the deck. All of these cards are amazing against Solidarity. The real problem the deck has with Solidarity is that it just doesn't kill it fast enough. So the disruption can wear off and you might top deck a couple of lands and then they go off.
I did some post-board testing with Ewokslayer with him playing Solidarity and me playing Deadguy Ale and I think it was like 10-5 me. I'm not sure exactly what his board was but the matchup wasn't even close. Perhaps Ewokslayer can post what he boarded (I was playing his version of Deadguy Ale).
If you really want to crush Solidarity play Chains of Mephistopheles - it has great synergy with Confidant.
That's good to hear. Like I said, my most recent testing has been very positive in Confidant's favor. If nobody else is having issues with Solidarity, I'll just chalk up my earlier difficulties to inexperience and a little bad luck.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnwarA101
Still, if I wanted to play this in a meta with a fair amount of combo, I'd probably board the extra discard of Unmask instead of Perish (but I could only get away with that because I also board Dystopia).
I hear that! That's why Chalice was another suggestion - it slows the other deck down, to give you a chance to kill him before he combos out. Alternatively, I like 2 maindecked Tomb of Urami for a slightly faster kill, but I'm not trying to re-open that can of worms.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnwarA101
While I'm in favor of a Tomb of Urami main, I'd hesitate to put two in. An opening hand of two swamps, or a swamp and a Tomb is a keeper. Two Tombs is not :wink: I feel like the occasional benefit they give is not worth the added chance of mulligans, or late-game drawing an absolutely dead card. I'd play one though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drathro
I completely agree here. It's not a card you miss or expect to have, but it's certainly nice at times. Fact is, this deck draws a bunch of cards, and you never want to get 2 Tombs in the same game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lego_Army_Man
I have just started playing this deck in legacy and found its results very powerful against grow and goblins along with any other DTB in the format. I have found a very fast upspring of Angel Stax builds now though since its powerful matchup against grow. How do you think this deck would have to change *if at all* to match up against Stax. I see the deck already runs alot of disruption so its a close match up I have found... but a turn one Trini hurts you A LOT, not to mention supression field/Ghost Prison slows down your tempo quite a bit as well.
My sideboard options have been as follows:
Serenity: good top deck late game to reset the board in your favor they
lack card draw.
Kataki: Decent but not too hot cause its not cumulative *legendary*
Seal of Cleansing: Not too hot since it just hits one, but can be pre-emptive
Disenchant: Again not as hot cause its 1 for 1
So Serenity has proven to be the best I think, just because it wipes the board for 1W. Kataki is second, but again seing multiples suck....and only 2 makes it hard to draw.
What do you guys think?
Another anti-artifact card you might consider for angel stack could be Dust to Dust it is WW casting cost, but 2 for ones are pretty good and removing from the game is useful against other artifact startegies (read Goblin Welder).
I just had a full day of play testing the other day. I tested against Gro, Goblins, and Angel Stax.
The build I decided to run after testing:
4x Duress
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Sinkhole
4x Vindicate
4x Dark Ritual
4x Nantuko Shade
4x Withered Wretch
4x Hypnotic Specter
4x Dark Confidant
3x Swords to Plowshares
4x Wasteland
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Scrubland
2x Tainted field
7x Swamp
Sb:4x Engineered Plague
3x Serenity/Disenchant
2x Dark Blast
3x Perish
3x Pithing Needle
Results:
Goblilns- I played around with cursed scroll in the main board first and it just didn't do enough. It was a threat that wasn't really that scary. It made me tie up my mana when it was active and when it wasn't made me save wastelands to use it. Its an early game threat that prevents you from playing your other ones. Very anti synergistic with Shade you find yourself always compromising dmg to be able to save your shade against vialed fanatics or gempalms. Swords is definately better in this match game 1. Besides that game one isn't too hot in your favor unless you pull some really nice ritual tricks in the first few turns to cripple them. As long as they get the vial going or lackey first turn its very tough. Game two and three were EASY... just had to remember they can still win with a plauge on board and a blast in hand.
Gro- Cursed scrolls yet again failed me in this match up. Swords were the key to this game. Every card you play is a threat and with them only have 4 spot removal spells *swords* your creatures stick around longer than they should since they have to conserve them. Having both Swords and Vindicate make mainboard mages no problem *and in turn mystic enforcers*. Game two they brought in Disrupts and winter orbs I think. Winter orbs are a hinderence cause they can plan out their mental notes and deck stackers to hit thresh for one turn and smash or screw over your shades. Still found you have great game against them with mainboard wretches.
Angel Stax- Lets just say I hate Chalice set at 2!!! Turn one trinispheres are a raping, ghost prison is tough, supression makes shade blow (and scrolls before I got rid of them). Unless I got a mutiple hand disruption effects I was as good as dead. Game two serenity was SOOOO good to me they sided in Kharmic Justice against me and I think Hanas custody thinking i had disenchants or seals. topdecking serenity is amazing late game since they have no card advantage outlets besides crucible. Just don't get baited into wraths. Swords keep the angels away...after boarding its definately a better match up. Save vindicates for pesky enchantments..IE Light of Day, Workship, etc!!
-Edit- Thanks to Godzilla for deck critiques just realized after tuning my build I ended up with your same main board.
If you're really worried about stax, how about devout witness? Its in your colors and the only real card they have for it is suppression field and WOG. If you can keep it on the table early their deck is dead, especially with your discard.
I would rather have something that fits into the curve a bit better, but this seems to give another outlet for your dead spells and land. To be honest though will a player have cards they want to pitch to just get spot removal on artifacts?
Serenity tends to stick it to Stax, so if you want pure Stax-hate (happens to annihilate Raffinity too), it's your card.