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I feel like the people crying the loudest in this thread can often be found in the 0-2 bracket crying about their losses instead of trying to find a way to win.
The boardstate just changed. Are you going to pout and allow me to kill you? And then go tell your friends your badbeat story?
Or are you going to adapt and try to find a way to win?
A good player before these changes will still be a good player.
A stinkyface noobydoobydoo will always be a stinkyface noobydoobydoo.
Actually it's just 4. No one is suggesting playing 2 on the same turn. That is just stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian23
I really hope they don't change the fact that damage redirection can kill walkers. If they do then holy hell I'm just gonna play PW.dec and own everyone because now the only way to kill them is through the combat phase or some crappy conditional sorcery spell.
Your face is a stinkyface noobydoobydoo :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by danyul
lol.
Change is always bad, and it seems the latest rule change is always the "straw" that made people quit magic.
Anyone who quits M:tG over this is a goober.
Might even make Dreadbore a card for legacy. When it an hit powerhouse walkers like liliana and jace as well any annoying creature for only 2 mana. Guess only weakness is the red mana in the mana cost lol.
About Jace being better now:
- Jace being better because "it can't be answered by Jace anymore". That conclusion is just flat out wrong. Jace does not get any better or worse through this. He loses the weakness to get destroyed by himself, but he also gains the weakness of not being able to destroy himself anymore - these two things even out mathematically. If you didn't play Jace before, then you don't have any reason to play him now.
- Jace being better because you can use it multiple times now by destroying it with a second copy. Fair point and certainly an improvement. It will come up from time to time and be good but I do not think this is as significant as people make it. It is for fringe uses when you are desperate for an answer or when the game goes really long and you have a ton of resources. In the vast majority of cases though you still have not enough Jaces for that and better uses for your Mana (especially considering that Jace gives you fresh cards) to make use of it.
Get over it, WOTC created a metagame where the best answers to the most powerful cards in that metagame can't be answered by themselves, if anything it'll diversify the format's removal spells beyond "I'll play Umezawa's Jitte, destroy your Umezawa's Jitte" and emphasize the combat phase vs Planeswalkers.Quote:
Originally Posted by ankharlyn
Despite the minor increase in the power curve for some cards, deck building should be significantly more interesting.
WotC is correct that from a flavor perspective, a Clone effect should not nuke a legend, but create a duplicate instead. However, you shouldn't be able to drop two cards with the same name onto the same battlefield either. From a flavor perspective, I like having the original legendary rules (you couldn't play a second one with the same name), while still allowing for an exception for Clone effects. The old legendary rules cause real problems in competitive play though, since "I slammed Jitte first therefore I win" is not a feature of a good game.
This may be unnecessarily gruff. But I don't own a Jace, I won't be paying $120 for one in this life time, and nobody facing me with Jace will ever have access to 8 mana in a turn. This does not make Jace any better against me at all.
Good luck finding one for $120 anyway, most places are listing them at $150 now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
Don't tempt Finn to find one for $120 and not buy it. He'll do it, he's crazy.
If my opponent wants to spend multiple turns playing 4 cost unsummons, that's okay with me! Chaining Lilianas seems more problematic just because dealing with her on early turns is so hard already... I don't know why people are arguing that the old rules were more interactive though? Playing x costed vindicates for Legendary permanents doesn't seem like much interaction to me compared to having to manage multiple Planeswalker activations in a mirror, making combat decisions with creatures etc. I.e. Interaction which can potentially occur over multiple turns, rather than "BOOM VINDICATE".Quote:
Originally Posted by ankharlyn
This just seems like deck building in Legacy has to change a bit. Jace is no longer an answer for Jace. Cards like Lingering Souls, Vindicate, Maelstrom Pulse etc should all see more play, which is interesting!
EDIT: Seriously guys, I don't get the arguments here. You may not like the rules now, you may think that xyz cards may be too powerful now, you may not like it from a flavour standpoint but to argue that there will be less interaction is crazy talk! Imagine having 2 Jaces in play... What do you do with your Jace? What do you do if you have a creature in play? What do you do if you both have creatures? The variables go on and on.
This opens up the potential for far more complex board states and decision trees. Call me crazy but having to make more complex decisions seems like an opportunity for better players to win, not just the first to land a Jace.
I just bought my 4th Jace for $110 on ebay, LP quality, which is fine with me.Quote:
Originally Posted by ankharlyn
Also, if my opponent has a jace in play and I play my own jace, now, rather than no one having a jace, we both have one. Both situations end in parity. The only difference is we're both brainstorming every turn. I can't see how this is that big of a deal.
Lol you know that the first player starting to fateseal will win here?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayotte
Truth. Though it depends on how much awesome removal for other PWs you run. Maybe red splash will become popular again for Red Blasts?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
OMG MAILBOMB his ***.Quote:
Originally Posted by (nameless one)
Just kidding obviously.
So,
Gaea's Cradle has gone up 13 euro in a day on MKM.
Its up to 150 SCG! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$Quote:
Originally Posted by TraxDaMax
I have done my christmas shopping. Nonfoil dark depths at $30. Foil should follow suit soon.
This post is a good explanation of why people might thing that the game gets less complex (which is non-sense as pointed out a couple of times). People just don't have a clue. :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Sorry for beeing offensive Lemnear, but if you really believe that a 6 turn clock where you do nothing with your jace (fateseal while the other brainstorms is doing nothing) will win over all the business like hmmm ... for example... creatures that the other Jace will draw you deserve it. :tongue:
The Blind-fuck-it-Jace-Fateseal is not a super common play anyways. I mean unless the board is empty and you are feeling really saucy, I think most people start with a Jacestorm or bounce or something that advances the boardstate. Unless you know for a fact that your opponent is holding a Jace and just happens to also have no ways to poke your own Jace. I don't know how common the JaceRace scenario will be.
You stretch the frame here too much to prove me wrong. I'm not discussing other factors like if the brainstorming Jace-deck runs creatures, Lingering Souls, SFM or Miracles. In a pure Jace-staredown, immediately fatesealing (yourself obviously; don't act like I'm stupid) puts you ahead in case you have to Race the counters, especially if your opponent first dropped a Jace and brainstormed.Quote:
Originally Posted by catmint