[Deck] Grixis Tempo

Played in my first paper tournament today at a weekly after playing a bunch with friends on cockatrice.

My list was Calcano's list with my own SB:

3 Cabal
2 Pyroblast
2 Needle
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Dismember
1 Dread of Night
2 Submerge
1 Clique
2 Surgical Extraction

Round 1- VS a sweet brew playing Mizzix's Mastery and Enter the Infinite and Conflagrate
G1- I lose the die roll and mull to 6. He plays a Mountain and plays Gamble. I get really scared that it's lands and force the gamble (he tells me later that lands doesn't run basic mountain.. good to know). I resolve a DRS on my turn. He Izzet Charm's the DRS and I Daze. I eventually flip a delver, and he has no way to answer DRS to combo out.

Sideboard -4 Daze -1 bolt- 1 Probe. +3 Cabal +2 Pyroblast +1 Clique (saw a baby Jace, so I kept bolts in. Also should have boarded in surgicals oops.)

G2- Mull to 6 again. Land a DRS T1 and let him gamble/loot/whatever while I keep a pair of forces and blue cards in my hand. I drain him slowly down and manage to flip 2 delvers. He again has no way to deal with DRS to combo out and dies to beats.
2-0 (1-0)

Round 2- VS Miracles
G1- I win the roll and keep 7. I play a DRS and pass. I daze his top and play a second DRS. He resolves a counterbalance on his turn. I continue to cantrip/drain him out. He blind flips nothing but I do see a mentor go by.

Sideboard -4 Daze -2 FoW -1 Bolt -2 Probe +3 Cabal +2 Pyroblast +1 Clique + 2 Needle +1 Dread of Night

G2- Keep 7, he mulls. He plays top T1, I play DRS T1. T2 I play Young Peezy and Cabal him naming Counterbalance.. whiff. See 2 forces and flashback to name force. I think Counterbalance was a fine blind name? He StP's Peezy and I don't have a response. Sad times. It turns into a very long grindy game swinging in with 1 token and draining with DRS until he gets a relic and starts relic-ing my targets. I get him down to 5, with a 2nd DRS but run out of spells to drain with. On his turn with 6 lands he fetches. I stifle it really just to get spells into my yard. I also stifle the terminus miracle trigger. With 2 cards in the GY, I can drain him. I had pyroblast in hand, so maybe before he even goes to main phase I just pyroblast anything, to have it fizzle and drain before main.
2-0 (2-0)

Round 3- VS a spicy Affinity Tezz brew. It played chalice, pod, things like myr enforcer and frogmite to pod into Griselbrand/Sundering Titan/Massacre Wurm. We ID and play for fun.
G1- I lose the roll and keep 7. I T1 DRS into T2 Ponder, and Delver. T3 Delver flip and play Peezy. I go to probe him and he concedes. He had spicy cards and hand and didn't want to reveal when he had no way to beat my board anyways.

Sideboard- -4 Daze -2 FoW +3 Cabal +1 Ancient Grudge +2 Needle (Unsure what I was really up against, I saw a Mox Opal, lands, and a frogmite I guessed Affinity)
G2- Chalice on 1 T1. :| It's still pretty grindy, but I resolve a Young P which quickly dies (I forget to what). He's down to 9 from his lands, but I have no way to interact with a resolved Tezz which he ults and goes back up to 21, bringing me down to 4. I almost stabilize with a Gurmag Angler and Dismember in hand, but he has 1 too many creatures that get through.

Sideboard -4 Stifle -4 Lightning Bolt +2 Pyroblast +4 Daze +2 FoW (Bring in a bunch of countermagic because I hate chalice).
G3- I probe him T1, see no chalice, but see a Jace TMS. I T1 DRS, play pithing needle naming Jace. The game goes long and he resolves 2 Lodestones. I have 2 flipped Delvers that hold them back. He resolves a few Frogmites and we trade drains for swings. I land a Young P but he resolves an Engineered Plague naming Human. He full swings with 2 Lodestone and 2 Pestermite. When I'm at 8. I block both with DRS and gain 2 life and win on the back swing with 2 delvers.
2-1 (2-0-1.. technically 3-0)

Thoughts: Had a ton of fun. Beating Miracles felt great. Meeting a brew in the 2-0 bracket was sweet. I''m thinking of shifting 2 cabals to the MD because I always bring them in. Really happy that I went 3-0 at my first paper tournament. It makes me feel like all the time I spent reading/researching/goldfishing/watching/playtesting maybe paid off. Any comments on my SB strategies would be very helpful.

@Jaytron I think your sideboarding was fine vs. Miracles. Those are all cards that you want.

I also think your blind naming of Counterbalance was 100% correct. It's the card you care most about with him having an active Top. If you name something like Force of Will on the first resolution, he might just have something like Brainstorm or Daze/Spell Pierce/Flusterstorm to respond to the flashback and protect any CB he might have. Naming Counterbalance there guarantees you won't be locked under Counterbalance+Top, unless he draws it off the top (but you can't beat the top of his deck anyway).

It's actually flashing back to name Force that I think might have been the error. Did he have Swords to Plowshares in hand? If so, that's the card you name. Force x2 is really just a single Force with a pitch card, which is hugely ineffective against you, especially with an active Pyromancer, so rather than getting a 2-for-1, you're getting a 1-for-1 and guaranteeing that, what, a Lightning Bolt resolves? Stifle on a fetch? Protecting the active Pyromancer there is a lot better than protecting a potential future threat. Keep in mind that if he's Forcing a counterspell or Stifle or Bolt, you're still getting an Elemental out of that spell, which is extra pressure.

This is all moot if he didn't have the STP in hand, but it's something to keep in mind in the future. There's a reason most decks board out Force of Will against us.

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Originally Posted by Delvis

@Jaytron I think your sideboarding was fine vs. Miracles. Those are all cards that you want.

I also think your blind naming of Counterbalance was 100% correct. It's the card you care most about with him having an active Top. If you name something like Force of Will on the first resolution, he might just have something like Brainstorm or Daze/Spell Pierce/Flusterstorm to respond to the flashback and protect any CB he might have. Naming Counterbalance there guarantees you won't be locked under Counterbalance+Top, unless he draws it off the top (but you can't beat the top of his deck anyway).

It's actually flashing back to name Force that I think might have been the error. Did he have Swords to Plowshares in hand? If so, that's the card you name. Force x2 is really just a single Force with a pitch card, which is hugely ineffective against you, especially with an active Pyromancer, so rather than getting a 2-for-1, you're getting a 1-for-1 and guaranteeing that, what, a Lightning Bolt resolves? Stifle on a fetch? Protecting the active Pyromancer there is a lot better than protecting a potential future threat. Keep in mind that if he's Forcing a counterspell or Stifle or Bolt, you're still getting an Elemental out of that spell, which is extra pressure.

This is all moot if he didn't have the STP in hand, but it's something to keep in mind in the future. There's a reason most decks board out Force of Will against us.

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Good point, I think he did have an StP in hand. I definitely should have taken that to protect Pyro. I think I was too quick to get the 2 forces because I saw them both. Protecting pyro, even for a turn, makes more sense. The clock would've been much faster.

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Originally Posted by Jaytron

Round 2- VS Miracles
Sideboard -4 Daze -2 FoW -1 Bolt -2 Probe +3 Cabal +2 Pyroblast +1 Clique + 2 Needle +1 Dread of Night

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Whats your reasoning for bringing in Cabal Therapy over FoW on the Draw? If they go T1 Top, doesnt that make your discard as good as useless?

Hey, what do you think about Calcanno's list?
I loved that, but I think it's a little risky using just 4 lightning bolts as removal spells in MD
I wish I could add at least a 5th removal.. what would be the best option to take out?
I currently cut the 4th Young Pyromancer to put a forked bolt. I've considered using murderous cut instead, but I'm not sure if it's solid using m. cut + 2 gurmag anglers..

So today I played Legacy for the first time, going with Calcano's Grixis Delver list card for card (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=10859&d=262038&f=LE). I have to say it was good fun playing the deck. Everything felt very fragile but the deck has a lot of play to it and it feels like you need to squeeze out a lot of value from every card and make the right decisions for a win. A small report, including some situations I have some questions about:

Round 1
I played against Punishing Jund. Game 1 I went first, opened with Deathrite into a turn 2 Pyromancer followed by Probe seeing Swamp, Liliana, Punishing Fire, Goyf, Hymn, Forest and Abrupt Decay. Probe drew me a Daze which I used to counter the Fire targeting my Shaman next turn. After that I played a second Pyro, made some more tokens and quickly closed out the game.

(Sideboard: -4 FoW, -1 Daze. +2 Surgical Extraction, +2 Submerge, +1 Clique.)

Game 2 I Stifled a fetchland which he didn't see coming, he again went after my Shaman and I managed to stick an Angler to his Goyf. At first I was kinda sad that my 2 remaining cards where 2 extra Stifles, but I managed to use them to Stifle 2 Liliana triggers while Angeler went to the face forcing Goyf to chump and eventually go the distance while we both kinda bricked on lands.

Round 2
Versus Sneak and Show. Game 1 I'm not sure what exactly happened, but I think it was a Stifle + Wasteland for some mana denial, a countered Show and Tell and eventually Angler came down to close out the game.

(Sideboard: -4 Lightning Bolt, -2 Angler, - a mix or Probes/Ponders/Dazes? I think I took out Probes but not sure. +4 Therapy, +1 Flusterstorm, +1 Needle, +1 Clique, +2 Pyroblast)

Now game 2 is where I punt pretty hard. I can't remember the full game but at some point I Cabal Therapied him for FoW and whiffed. I wrote down Brainstorm, Show and Tell, Probe, Sneak Attack and Ancient Tomb. I had a Deathrite Shaman going, resolved a Delver that same turn and was holding FoW + blue card. He probes me and casts Blood Moon. I pause and let it resolve. Next turn I attack him with a Delver, cast something (think Ponder, going for a shuffle) and pass the turn. On his turn he casts Sneak Attack. I again think for a bit before letting it resolve. On my turn I attack with flipped Delver, I cast a second Delver and pass. He casts a Brainstorm, I counter it with FoW. On my turn I flip my second Delver, cast a Deathrite Shaman and attack with the 2 Delvers. He uses Sneak Attack to put Griselbrand into play which he drew from on of his 2 draw steps, blocked my Delver and I scooped.
Now first of all, that scoop was a dumb mistake. I didn't remember that you have to sac the creature you put into play with Sneak Attack... As for the other situation, my reasoning for not countering Blood Moon or Sneak Attack was that I knew the rest of his hand. He has 2 enablers but nothing to use it on. So I thought that the most important card was actually the Brainstorm since that could draw him into a Emrakul or Griselbrand. Since I only had 1 counterspell I thought I coulnd't deal with Sneak Attack and Show and Tell, so I gambled that I could deal with Blood Moon, counter the Brainstorm and hopefully finish him of with Delver before he could assemble the combo. Is this line of thinking wrong? Another play which I only realised after the fact was that I could FoW the Sneak Attack and then flashback Therapy for the Show and Tell. But I'm not sure if I already had a second Delver drawn at the point which means I would have had to make that play thinking I needed to sacrifice my only source of mana OR my only source of damage.

Game 3 was kinda brutal. I start with Deathrite, he Ponder with a Petal after a mulligan. On my turn I Therapy him naming Brainstorm (hit), see Sneak Attack, Intuition, Pyroblast and Ancient Tomb remaining. I cast a second Therapy and take the Sneak Attack. He draws and passes. I think I played either a second Deathrite or a Delver, holding FoW + blue card (Probe I think). On his turn he casts Show and Tell with mana for Pyroblast backup and puts Griselbrand into play. Apparently his Ponder saw Tomb, Grisel and S&T. :( I played on this time but had no outs really.

Round 3:
I noted that my opponent had 4 points but I didn't dare to blindly put him on Miracles. He was Miracles. I mulligan a hand of Fetchland, Deathrite, Stifle, 2x Daze, FoW, Ponder. I think. It felt risky because of the 1 land, but my 6 card hand was a Deathrite, Probe, Angler, Bolt and 2 land. Unfortunately I got crushed. I played a Deathrite and passed. Next turn I played my Probe, saw Brainstorm, Fow, Humility, Terminus and Arid Mesa. I played a second Deathrite and at some point we had a fight over Terminus which he put back with Brainstorm. I forced, he forced me back and I used my Deathrites to cast a Brainstorm and Bolt him in the face to set up and Angler. Unfortunately my second Probe revealed a Swords and a Stoneforge. The Swords took care of the Angler and I had no answerer to Batterskull.

(Sideboard: - 2 FoW, -3 Lightning Bolt, -1 Probe. + 1 Needle, +1 Vortex, +1 Flusterstorm, +1 Clique, +2 Pyroblast)

Game 2 I can open with Delver but instead I hold because I have Stifle. I tried to play a mana denial game with Stifle and 2x Wasteland but he has too much land and too many basics. I don't remember this game too much but I know I manage to get an Angler and Deathrite to stick, counter big Jace, but get crushed by Stoneforge + Batterskull and Sword of the Meek. I just can't get any damage in and have no awnser once Batterskull resolved. I talked to my opponent after the match, as I did everytime, and he told me that it was probably more correct to board out some Wastelands versus him since the mana denial isn't strong enough and Stifle can trade for better value versus other cards. Not sure if this is correct but I got crushed this matchup.

After this I'm out of a money finish.
Round 4 I play against Burn which I win 2-0 surprisingly. Game 1 he's stuck on 1 land for a while, I stick a Pyromancer with 3 land into play and remember to Stifle his Rift Bolt and Daze his Chain Lightning targeting my Pyromancer. I beat him down and on the turn he draws a second land he can only do 10 damage to bring me down to 1... Game 2 the opposite happens, he draws a lot of land and at some point has 6 land into play to start hardcasting his 3 Fireblasts... Daze trades for value in this game and Deathrite Shaman does some work by gaining 4 life.

Round 5 I play against Slivers. Game 1 I counter his Vial, Wasteland his first land, Wasteland his second land, but he gets a Flanking Sliver and a First Strike Sliver down. Even though I have a Delver, Deathrite and 2 Pyromancers down I don't draw any cantrips and he draws enough land. At some point I draw a bolt, gun down his Mussle Sliver, make 2 extra tokens and attack with everything leaving just 2 fresh tokens to block. My opponent goes from 18 to 7 but has an extra lord + Mutavault on his turn to attack for lethal, my attack was 1 token too reckless :( . Game 2 I again for the mana denial plan with 3 Wastes this time, but he draws plenty of land to counter it. Fortunately I get another Pyromancer down and use it to get some value from my Dazes and Stifles, even forced to counter my own cards just for some tokens. Not sure how but eventually I get him. Game 3 I take it easy with the Wastelands though I do FoW a turn 1 Vial. This is a mistake this time around since he's hurting on mana. This is good because I'm able to flip 2 Delvers and kill him before he draws a Flying Sliver or has 3 mana/3 Vial counters on his second Vial for the Lifelink Sliver.

So in the end I go 3-2, beating Punishing Jund, Burn and Slivers. Losing to Sneak and Show and Miracles. Somehow I have the feeling I managed to beat my tougher matchups but lost to my better matchups. The deck was great, it was fun to play and had a lot of game to it. The one thing I'm unsure about is the Stifles since they felt very hit or miss, the vulnerability to Blood Moon (is this just fear?) and the sideboard. Not just how I boarded, but also that I had no cards to put in versus some decks (burn, slivers), that 4 Therapies felt like 1 too many and that Darkblast felt kinda meh. Don't know where that card would really shine; the mirror and D&T? Next time I feel like adding an Ancient Grudge to the board, just so I'm not dead to a resolved Batterskull. Or is this thinking to scared?

Love to hear some feedback on some of my sideboarding and that key decision in game 2 of round 2 :) .

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Originally Posted by Delvis

Thoughts on Fiery Confluence as a sideboard card? Provides a surprising amount of reach (up to 6 non-targeted damage to your opponent), can kill Thresholded Mongoose armies, etc. Might just be better in my Prowess build since you don't want to deal your own guys too much damage in a more traditional list, but I think it has potential. It's also a sweeper effect that doubles duty as a burn spell and pseudo-Shatterstorm.

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I've been looking at this card because MUD is in my meta. Again, it's competing with K-Command.

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Originally Posted by Kamus

Hey, what do you think about Calcanno's list?
I loved that, but I think it's a little risky using just 4 lightning bolts as removal spells in MD
I wish I could add at least a 5th removal.. what would be the best option to take out?
I currently cut the 4th Young Pyromancer to put a forked bolt. I've considered using murderous cut instead, but I'm not sure if it's solid using m. cut + 2 gurmag anglers..

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Murderous Cut is indeed the best option.

So far my best K-Command play:

playing against Burn, he is at 16 and I am at 3. He has no cards in hand. He has an Eidolon in play, I have a flipped Delver and an Angler. I attack with both, he doesn't block, he takes 8. On his draw step I K-Command to kill his Eidolon and make him discard (going down to 1), fortunately he didn't draw an instant, then I swing for 8 again and win.

So after winning EE3 and making the finals of GP SeaTac, this deck was the second-most popular archetype on Day 2 at SCG NJ (behind only Miracles). And is apparently not a Deck to Beat.

But that's none of my business. -sips tea-

I don't really care what the mods do, but if you're not prepared to beat Grixis Delver then you're making a mistake.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Delvis

So after winning EE3 and making the finals of GP SeaTac, this deck was the second-most popular archetype on Day 2 at SCG NJ (behind only Miracles). And is apparently not a Deck to Beat.

But that's none of my business. -sips tea-

I don't really care what the mods do, but if you're not prepared to beat Grixis Delver then you're making a mistake.

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DTB hasn't been updated with November numbers yet? I'm sure it'll be back again.

Guys running K-Command, what do your lists look like? I'm thinking of adding a K-Command in my artifact heavy local meta.

I took Calcano's 60 and cut 1 Probe, 1 Stifle for 1 Spell Pierce, 1 K-Command.

Does anyone have a general sideboard guide for this deck? I'm running Calcano's version, but having some trouble sideboarding as I've been on UR Delver for a while.

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Originally Posted by pateuglow

Does anyone have a general sideboard guide for this deck? I'm running Calcano's version, but having some trouble sideboarding as I've been on UR Delver for a while.

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Well there's some stuff that carries over from any delver deck (board out your forces against other delver decks, board out dazes on the draw in most matchups).

Therapy is for combo (duh), also good against Blade decks. Not awful against D&T.

idk, everything else is pretty self explanatory in the board.

Against non-graveyard combo (Sneak and Show) you often bring out some Deathrites. Against all spell based combo you take out Bolts.

Against aggro decks you often take out Probes since you don't have Therapy in and they hurt you.

Stifle is your best friend against BUG decks (hurt their manabase, stifle suspended Visions, stifle Cascade trigger). Submerge is another good one.

Vortex and prayers is your best way to beat Miracles and Lands. I've toyed with replacing Vortex with Exquisite Firecraft (hard to keep it alive for multiple turns sometimes).

Just won a monthly last weekend with the next list:


12 Creatures:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Gurmag Angler
1 Vendilion Clique

30 Spells:
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Dead // Gone
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
3 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Gitaxian Probe

18 Lands:
4 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
1 Tropical Island

/Sideboard:
1 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Null Rod
1 True-Name Nemesis
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Pithing Needle
2 Pyroblast
1 Mana Maze
1 Submerge
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Dimir Charm
1 Terminate
1 Perish


First round: Death & Taxes (2-1 // 2-0-0)
Opponent wints the roll. I Win game 1, lose game 2 to a batterskull with Sword of Fire and Ice. I WIn game 3 again.
Board (not sure about this one): -2 Probe, -1 Daze on the draw, -1 force on the play. +1 True-Name, +1 Ancient Grudge, +1 Terminate

Round 2: BUG (2-1 // 2-0-0)
I win the roll and win game 1. Game 2 was close but I pull the short straw after he countered the Perish. Game 3 I submerge his goyf then waste his tropical so he can't play it again. I Dimir Charm to target myself, drop some cards in the graveyard and the second Angler on top to drop it down and beat him down past a True-Name on his end of the table. Starting in any tempo match is really important.
Board: -2 Probe, -4 Daze on the draw -4 FoW on the play. +1 True-Name, +1 Submerge, +1 Perish, +1 Terminate, +1 Needle, +1 Dimir Charm.

Round 3: MUD (2-1 // 3-0-0)
Not sure who started here, I tent to write more sloppy when playing vs friends. I win game one, lose game 2 and win game 3 again. Both game 1 and 3 had quick delvers flying to the face. Game 3 I had a quick Null Rod who delayed his play he was about to make with a couple of Grim Monolith's giving me time to beat him down before the big guys got on board.
Board: -2 probe on the play -2 Daze on the draw, -4 Stifle. +1 Null Rod, +1 Terminate, +1 Ancient Grudge, +1 Pithing Needle, +1 Grafdigger's Cage, +1 True-Name.

Round 4: Miracles (ID // 3-0-1)
We decide to ID becouse there were only 3 people who went 3-0-0 and it was a 5 round tournament.
We play one for fun what was a really weird game. I end up keeping Stifle open so he won't fetch his land and we both play almost nothing for 4 turns. I end up beating him down with a Clique and countering/stifling everything.

Round 5: Nic-Fit (ID // 3-0-2)
Again ID to get clear cut to top 8.
We also play a game for fun and I beat him down with a quick Delver and Shaman.

Top 8: Infect (2-0 // 4-0-2)
I win the roll and rush him down quick. Game 2 I manage to burn and waste his infect creatures. Ended up on 6 infect counters becouse of double exalted triggers on the field before I take him down.
Board: -2 probe, -4 Force. +1 True-Name, +1 Submerge, +1 Perish, +1 Dimir Charm, +2 Decay.
I made the mistake nog getting any Pyroblast from the board to counter/kill the Blighted Agent. Also Mana Maze ould have worked to counter the multiple pump spells in a row.

Top 4: Burn (2-1 // 5-0-2)
Win the roll but I can't manage to control game one. Wastelands and Stifles are a bit awkward in this match. Game 2 I stabalize, sort of, and end up on 3 life before I beat him down. Game 3 I get a better grip and end up on 10 life before beating him down with Delver and finishing with a Bolt to the face.
Board: -2 Probe, -4 Stifle, -2 Wasteland. +1 True-Name, +1Ancient Grudge (in case there are Ensnaring Bridge's from the board), +1 Mana Maze, +1 Dimir Charm, +2 Decay, +1 Terminate, +1 Needle.

Final: Burn (2-1 // 6-0-2)
I win the roll but I lose game 1 again. Game 2 I get good control on the board and end up on 14 life while beating with Delver and Angler. Game 3 I ended on 5 life before hitting the final blow with Angler.
Board: -2 Probe, -4 Stifle, -2 Wasteland. +1 True-Name, +1Ancient Grudge (I know he plays Ensnaring Bridge's), +1 Mana Maze, +1 Dimir Charm, +2 Decay, +1 Terminate, +1 Needle.



Been a while since I went 3-0 at the monthly, so that was fun.
Changes I'm going to make:
Main deck:
-1 Dead//Gone (it's ok, but I want to try something else)
+1 Forked Bolt (or Fire//Ice)
I really like instant removal for 1 mana, hence the Dead//Gone. But alot of lists use Forked Bolt or Dismember at this spot. I don't like Dismember in Grixis becouse I feel you have better alternatives.


Sideboard:
-1 Perish (really good, but I don't like 3 mana and hitting my own creatures)
+1 Submerge (good to have multipes of this on the board)

If I get my hands on a Flusterstorm I proberly put this in the board instead of the Mana Maze, although the Maze is really good vs Elves/Burn/Omnitell apart from being really annoying for storm/combo decks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pateuglow

Does anyone have a general sideboard guide for this deck? I'm running Calcano's version, but having some trouble sideboarding as I've been on UR Delver for a while.

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I'm not sure what list this is. But generally you just add counter/discard against anything combo or control. Add more creature removal and creatures vs any aggro decks.
The general idea is to identify the cards that are adding the least value to the match-up and swap them for anything that adds more value.
I'm also a fan of taking out card disadvantage when you can help it. Like removing Force of Will when you don't have anything on the other side of the table that you really need to counter. Mostly this means when you are on the play, you take them out vs tempo/aggro decks. Daze is also a set-back since you lose a land drop. It's also less effective on the draw becouse your opponent already has a land drop more then you, hence more mana to play for Daze. So you can take out Daze on the draw vs aggro/tempo decks. But ONLY do this when you have better substitudes in the sideboard.
If you play Stifle you sometimes can keep the Daze even on the draw vs decks like BUG, becouse they need to get to 3 or 4 mana to be effective. Daze and Stifle help to hinder that plan.

Did you feel "threat light" with the lack of Young p? Do you miss Cabal at all?

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Originally Posted by Jaytron

Did you feel "threat light" with the lack of Young p? Do you miss Cabal at all?

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I don't feel light thread at all becouse the Anglers are a real beating. To be honest, I feel like I can add more value cards to the deck by dropping the Pyromancers. I can play counters on the slots of the 3rd and 4th Probe. There is also less value loss when you board out Probes for other cards.

I do miss the therapy wrecking vs combo decks though. Turn 1 shaman into turn 2 Pyromancer/Probe/Therapy is all you need to win a game vs combo most of the time. Spell Pierce and/or Spell Snare do the trick too most of the time, although it's less effective then the therapy combo. This is why I play with Mana Maze at the moment.

why not just play goyfs if you're not going to play pyromancer+therapy... pyromancer is the reason to play this deck.

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Originally Posted by h2o

why not just play goyfs if you're not going to play pyromancer+therapy... pyromancer is the reason to play this deck.

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Well, first I will state again for the record that Draggo is playing in a European meta that most of us don't really know. Based on his report, it doesn't seem like anything really wacky is there, but I'm sure the percentages of meta representation are quite different... he did play Burn twice in the Top 4.

It's probable that he wants Angler instead due to the higher count of black sources in his deck as well as its immunity to Abrupt Decay, Counterbalance, and its resistance to graveyard exile effects once it's on the table. He also had a Perish in the sideboard and that doesn't line up well with playing Goyfs of your own, although it also kills his Deathrites which is why he's planning on removing it. Speaking of, Goyf and Deathrite are kind of awkward together.

Not saying it's necessarily the correct call, but there are reasons for not playing Goyf. However, your point about Pyromancer+Therapy being the point of the deck is valid. I've been decreasing my counts recently, but it's the primary thing we get to do that the other Delver builds don't -- the others being Bolt and DRS side-by-side, and the Delve dorks over Tarmogoyf (which I prefer anyway due to Angler's Decay and Counterbalance resistance).

@Draggo, 'grats on the finish! I think Mana Maze is definitely over-sideboarding for Infect. Their pump spells tend to be +4/+4, and they are comfortable landing one pump per turn on a 1/1 to kill you. It only sort of slows them down and doesn't nearly do enough to actually stop their plan. Plus they could just chain a Brainstorm in-between green spells to turn on a double-pump turn. Overall, the impact on their strategy is minimal and is too easily overcome.

Delver Rising http://thegraymerchants.com/?p=1287