Quote: "wasteland is a big Problem. "
Thats right. Try mind stone. I play 4 maindeck. And they are very very helpful against wasteland and bloodmoon.
Also crystal vein is an Option. I play 2 aß you can see in my above.
Best regards
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Quote: "wasteland is a big Problem. "
Thats right. Try mind stone. I play 4 maindeck. And they are very very helpful against wasteland and bloodmoon.
Also crystal vein is an Option. I play 2 aß you can see in my above.
Best regards
I had played 4 Mind Stone in my previous build. It was definitely good. I wanted to try something different tonight though, and went all-in on the aggro plan with Endless Ones and Revokers. Didn't want to cut any of the Chalice/Trinisphere/Warping Wail cards, so that meant Mind Stone, and I got punished.
This is really the main divide between the 2 or 3 different decks being discussed in this thread - sacrifice resiliency for speed, or no. More testing is required, and maybe it has to be a meta call of "are the tempo Wasteland decks out in force today? If so, play slower Mind Stone deck. If not, kill people faster but get pwnt by those are actually playing Wasteland."
I think an interesting thing to consider in this deck is Wasteland vs Cavern. Both can be incredibly strong, and I can see the arguments for both sides. Cavern is pretty amazing with Reality Smasher draws against Delver, and Wasteland is great with Thorn/3sphere.
This is one of the very few decks where I'd consider playing Scorched Ruin as a one-of.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gheizen64
EDIT: The core reason I'd consider it, even though it's card disadvantage in a big way, is that it has the capacity to play more than one thing from a single land. I think that it warrants testing, at least.
I just don't see the point of playing Scorched Ruins. While it's nice to recycle abundant Legendary lands, but it's prime Wasteland bait, you lack untap effects to abuse it and you don't necessarily net mana with all those Sol lands.
Edit: Started testing an Eldrazi Stompy deck on Cockatrice to see how it goes. Sadly, people leave after G1. :tongue:
I don't like City of Traitors. Right now, I see it as an necessary evil, but I would prefer to cut it completely. Some kind of mana stabiliser is probably needed, be it Mind Stone, Mox Diamond or otherwise.
Also, why was Jitte dropped by other people? Especially in builds with Mimic, Revoker and Endless One, shouldn't it shine? Quite a few decks just roll over and die to an early Jitte. Life on Tomb-heavy draws definitely seemed like a problem. Going all-in on the "Smash stuff with big, expensive Eldrazi" doesn't seem like the best path when you could add another angle of attack this way.
I definitely want another piece of disruption in the deck. Has anybody gotten test results with Lodestone Golem? It even synergizes with Mimic, but I assume it plays poorly without City.
Has anybody tried out CoW + Manlands yet?
I'm going to be testing the UR Version in paralel to the colorless stompy list. I think mox diamond can really make UR Eldrazi even more explosive while smoothing out awkward city of traitors and excess eye of ugins. And most of all it allows for turn 1 plays 3 mana plays.
As for Scorched Ruins, it might be good as a sideboard card when you know your opponent isn't playing wasteland. I think I like it mostly for being able to trade in ancient tombs next to the excess eye of ugins. Ancient Tombs can really hurt you in the long run especially in matchups like burn.
Played a few games with MD.Ghost's list (Mind Stone + Dismember in said flex slots).
The manabase seems more stable than the Stompy version.
I like Conduit of Ruin alot. Tutoring + ramping + 5/5 body is great. I think what might be worth considering is a tutor drop that bridges the mana gap between Conduit and Eldrazi Titans. Something like Ulamog's Crusher or Bane of Bala Ged.
My testing group (which is working on this deck) tried Lodestone Golem, but didn't like it. It doesn't get to take advantage of any of the Eldrazi lands which makes the 4 cost on it actually feel bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
Anyone else tried splashing green? I think World Breaker might be worth it. World Breaker helps against Blood moon and ensnaring bridge, does block everything (e.g. Tarmogoyf or delver of secrets and is also a relatively cheap target for eye of ugin. Life from the Loam might help against Wasteland and also works nice with World Breaker.
Here is an example of a deck
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Eye of Ugin
4x Forest
3x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2x Wasteland
4x Eldrazi Temple
4x Llanowar Wastes
4x Warping Wail
4x Chalice of the Void
1x Life from the Loam
4x Mox Diamond
3x Thorn of Amethyst
4x Eldrazi Mimic
4x Endless One
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer
3x World Breaker
I haven't, but based on my (limited) testing with Lynch and Scheffenacker's list, I think it's definitely worth trying. The Wastelands aren't as good as I was hoping they would be since we actually need the extra mana a lot of the time to do things like cast/equip the equipment off of Eldrazi lands when we don't draw Ancient Tomb or City of Traitors. Another land that has been pretty swingy in my experience is Eye of Ugin. It is probably not as essential to these builds as it is in the Modern versions of this deck because we have a lot of non-Eldrazi spells we want to cast, and Eye makes you stuck a lot of the time. I think we can shave some Wastelands and one Eye for 2-4 Factories, and maybe stick in a Crucible in the space of one of the flex slots.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
As for artifact mana, Mind Stone seems like the right thing to do since it's the only reasonable rock we can run that gives us counterplay against Blood Moon.
I don't know how to make room for all of this.
I know this thread is going all over the place, but I was also thinking of using Eldrazi Displacer / Drowner of Hope / Eldrazi Skyspawner for control. If Eldrazi will dominate, Eldrazi Displacer can turn your opponents thought-knot seer into your draw engine by tapping it down (not triggering the cast, but triggering the leaves the battlefield ability. It also screw with Eldrazi Mimics (Reality Smasher in play with a Mimic turn turns mimic into a haste Smasher every turn and therefore also makes it a much better top deck late game). Blinking Drowner of Hope needs no explanation. Although a smaller effect, Eldrazi Skyspawner can ramp mana when you are stuck with Displacer (Eldrazi Temple taps for 2 mana on eldrazi abilities too). So, an U/W build might also be viable.
I don't think brainstorming for ideas is a bad thing - it gets us closer to the best form of the deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
TKS effect is ETB, not on cast, so you would allow them to Thoughtseize you on each activation, too.
Between Adakar Wastes, Cavern and Souls and Talisman of Progress, there's plenty of mana fixing to go the route you suggested.
@Noc2: I'd definitely try Conduit in your case since it can tutor for World Breaker.
Thought-Knot Seer has an enters-the-battlefield trigger, not a cast trigger. So Displacing it would give your opponent two triggers that they can stack how they want, and they will stack it so the draw happens first. The only way this actually draws you a card is if you draw a land off the draw trigger and then have a hand of all lands when the ETB trigger resolves.Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
The other things work, though, especially Drowner of Hope. It's possible that would be a viable strategy.
Played this list for the first time at my local last night. Ended up 2-1.
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Warping Wail
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Trinisphere
3 All is Dust
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Sea Gate Wreckage
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Sideboard
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Tsabo's Web
3 Spine of Ish Sah
I lost to Storm in 3 after misplaying my lands game one (preventing a turn two Thought-Knot Seer). Turn 1 Duress on Trinisphere into turn 2 kill you game one, game two I had turn one Revoker and Crypt stopping a Past in Flames kill. Turn 2 Trinisphere sealed that one up. Game 3 I was on the draw and turn one Duress into turn 2 tendrils everywhere happened again. Round 2 was against Merfolk. Game one he Wasted most of my lands that weren't Ancient Tomb so I ended up taking 12 damage off of Tomb. He killed me for exactsies when I made an ill-advised all-in attack on the final turn. Game two he mulled too much and my big dudes rapidly took over the game. Game three went back and forth for a couple turns until I top-decked two consecutive Reality Smashers. That card is dumb. Round three was against Reanimator. On the draw I kept a hand with turn one Warping Wail but was wrecked by turn 2 combo with counter backup. Game two we both mulled but mine was better - Trinisphere into Thought-Knot. Game three I had Crypt and Eldrazi Mimic on turn one, followed by a Trinisphere that met Force and a Thought-Knot which got there.
The deck felt extremely powerful and more consistent than I expect from Stompy decks (fewer dead draws, and the mana is good). Matter Reshaper didn't do much of anything but that might have more to do with the matchups skewing combo than any inherent weakness of the card, more testing is necessary. Every other creature in the deck was bonkers, except for the Ulamog which got boarded out as all matchups were fast. Trinisphere is a little slow without Grim Monolith or Mox Diamond and might become Thorn of Amethyst.
Thanks for testing! :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
If you search for another "Target" i would cut Kozilek (overall he is weaker than Ulamog, but in a Ramp Shell and with Conduit you want 2 Targets). With some adjustments (see below) this can also be 1 World Breaker (faster, reach!, blocks Gofy, Smasher etc. and will kill a Ensnaring Bridge, Moon, Maze (DDepths/Stage/Chasm) or even a Humility on cast which is nice.
You can also try other stuff like: Platinum Angel (edit, brainafk) or Platinum Emperion - yes no Eldrazi but they also cost not 10+ Mana and with Conduit, Tombs, Monolith and Postlands it should be work. I would 3 one of these before i touch Bane of Bala Ged or Ulamog's Crusher because even a "Bridge Target" (less than 10 Titan Mana) should be win the game for you more or less.
I thought about him as a tutor target over Kozilek (the old one - which for me is the stronger one). What i like is, that 7 (Eldrazi) Mana aren't are hard task for the Ramp (Postlands+Mana artifacts) Version, which is also the Reason why All is Dust is so good in this deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noc2
My latest build can be adjusted for World Breaker like this:
-1/2 Urborg
+1/2 Brushland/Llanowar Wastes (depends on other Side Splashes)
-3 Mind Stone
+3 Talisman of X (a Green one! Talisman can be used for colorless Mana like Mind Stone and for Color-Splashes!)
Together with Cavern this would leave you with 8-9 possibilities for Green Mana which should be enough for 1-2 Eldrazi.
Mind Stone, or Guardian of Idol (tapped is no problem because you deploy the Artifact for following turns), or Talisman of X if you use a slightly Color-Splash at Side, i recommend only Eldrazi because they will profit from Cavern if they need coloured mana.Quote:
Originally Posted by iostream
You are wrong here, Seer has no "Cast Trigger" otherwise it would be (slightly more^^) over the top (because counter him would still trigger him). With Displacer (i played both at my "White Eldrazi" list) you can still profit from your own Seer, exile him, opponent draws a card and you see the new hand and exile a new card too - this will be usefull if your opponent cant use many instant stuff (Brainstorm etc.) to interact with this combo.Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
About Displacer: I liked him a lot because he will dominate (he has pseudo haste^^) the field, Delver will flip, Lands-Token will be exiled and Big Stuff like Gofy, Smasher or Sneak&Show Matchup are easy winable if you have Displacer and some Mana (Temple is good here!). This is also the reason i maybe try my ramp build with a little colorsplash (see above) and 2-3 Displacer at Side.
Thanks for the nice report! One question: did you miss not having access to Wasteland?Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral_Arzar
You can write your list that are more competitive and you're playing? thank youQuote:
Originally Posted by MD.Ghost
I'm currently running 3 Conduit and added the changes to the mana. Played 2 matches and found myself fetching for World Breaker every single time. Decent body + Reach (fuck you, Delver) + blowing something up on cast is fantastic. Went with a 1 Brushland/Urborg split since I like the random utility Urborg provides.Quote:
Originally Posted by MD.Ghost
As for artifact Eye targets: Elves will just play Reclamation Sage and then laugh all the way to the bank.
Sideboard needs work, though. Ratchet Bomb is pretty good, Pithing Needle should do a decent job as well, I guess. Can't say much about Thorn since I haven't played any relevant matches for it. What I did notice, though, is that the deck needs more and better GY hate. Lands is tearing us a new one. Maybe a combination of Tormod's Crypt + Leyline of the Void?
Ah, that's right. My bad. Still good to use on your own Thought-Knot Seer. I don't know if it's viable but running a Rasputin Dreamweaver combos the deck out with Eldrazi displacer -> infinite mana -> activate Eye of Ugin -> get Thought-Knot Seer -> infinite blink TKS to deck opponent.Quote:
Originally Posted by MD.Ghost
I actually find myself preferring Spartial Contortion to both Warping Wail and Dismember. Contortion can kill anything Wail kills, and it kills bigger threats too after they block one of your weenies. Plus, it can be used to do 3 extra damage to finish your opponent off a turn earlier.
Dismember's life loss tends to be too much when paired with Ancient Tombs, especially against the aggressive decks where Dismember is so crucial.
I do like the cloudpost based build I posted earlier, but I also think the Aggro variant has plenty of merit as long as the manabase is approached correctly. Below is the Aggro version I've been testing...Quote:
Originally Posted by MD.Ghost
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth - Lets Eye of Ugin effectively produce 3 mana, and also lets you tap Ancient Tomb for mana without losing life.
2 Sea Gate Wreckage - In the low curve aggro versions, you tend to empty your hand fairly quickly, so playing a land that draws you cards is fantastic if your opponent survives into the mid-late game.
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin - The potency of being able to play all the Mimics and Endless Ones in your opening hand on turn 1 is well worth the occasional dead extra Eye of Ugin drawn. Especially true since this land tends to be the prime Wasteland target
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Crystal Vein - Very underrated. Gives the deck a lot more consistencty and explosiveness
4 City of Traitors - See above.
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Spartial Contortion
1 Jitte
1 Phyrexian Metamoprh
1 Endbringer
1 Ulamog - An all in 1 answer for everything against slow matchups like Miracles.
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Phyrexian Revoker