Confirmed: Eternal Masters - June 10, 2016

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Originally Posted by Crimhead

Yeah, nobody is apt to run eight copies! But every Lands deck would gladly run two in the seventy-five if we had an almost functional rerprint.

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I already run two and I am looking on cutting back to one again. Your trying to fit to much in a small space and Tab is just not optimal as a two of.

Now playing Stax... well there I break out all three and that pisses people off.

Dual prices aint the problem for legacy. Look at the money going around in Modern. It's all about format support. When SCG streamed more legacy it was a lot more popular.

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Originally Posted by bruizar

Dual prices aint the problem for legacy. Look at the money going around in Modern. It's all about format support. When SCG streamed more legacy it was a lot more popular.

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Shrug, the price difference between comparable Legacy and Modern decks seems to be roughly 100-150%. For example, Modern Jund ~2k$, Legacy Shardless ~4k$

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Originally Posted by Finn

Wasteland and Force of Will are getting reprinted. I am having a hard time seeing a down side for the future of Legacy here, even if the set is those and all chaff.

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This x100.

I bought a box of modern masters1, and while it didn't pay off as well as I wanted I got a shit-ton of playable cards out of it. This will be the same.

Oh no, I have all these shitty cabal therapies, dazes, and young pyromancers lying around. I am convinced that this is going to be the calibre of uncommons in the set.

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Originally Posted by nevilshute

Shrug, the price difference between comparable Legacy and Modern decks seems to be roughly 100-150%. For example, Modern Jund ~2k$, Legacy Shardless ~4k$

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There's so much overlap between many decks though. I think you can build an entirely new second modern deck or expand your current modern build to legacy for about the same price, using shocks as transition cards as you accumulate the required duals? Jund is not a blue based deck, legacy shardless is. That explains a lot because the fetch-base doesn't overlap AND you need to pay for blue based duals.

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

I already run two and I am looking on cutting back to one again. Your trying to fit to much in a small space and Tab is just not optimal as a two of.

Now playing Stax... well there I break out all three and that pisses people off.

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I want to see that on live coverage :D

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Originally Posted by HdH_Cthulhu

Also you dont need a playset of duals. It really helps if you have just 1 to fetch... I have about 25/40 duals and this is enough to build most of the manabases...

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Yeah, this. I don't think there's a material difference between 2-3 of a dual with fetches and 4 duals with fetches. You need more than one because Wasteland, but you also don't necessarily want your whole mana base to be duals because Wasteland. (And, to a lesser degree, Blood Moon, Choke, etc).

Still, that's little comfort when people are charging you the price of a new computer for a single Magic card.

Just be glad you're not selling a car to buy a piece of power.

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Originally Posted by MaximumC

Yeah, this. I don't think there's a material difference between 2-3 of a dual with fetches and 4 duals with fetches. You need more than one because Wasteland, but you also don't necessarily want your whole mana base to be duals because Wasteland.

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I agree. I actually think running 4 of the same dual is always bad. Whenever I run 4 of the same, you get hands or games where you find 3, and you're either locked out of a color or you're wasted/tempo'd into oblivion because you never found a fetch/basic. I try to max out at 3 of each dual, and 1-2 of the ones that no one uses (plateau, taiga)

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Originally Posted by tescrin

I agree. I actually think running 4 of the same dual is always bad. Whenever I run 4 of the same, you get hands or games where you find 3, and you're either locked out of a color or you're wasted/tempo'd into oblivion because you never found a fetch/basic. I try to max out at 3 of each dual, and 1-2 of the ones that no one uses (plateau, taiga)

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Besides storm, every other legacy deck can operate with shocks. A friend of mine place well with miracles without tundras. It sucks? Yes it does, but for a 50 players tournament it's fine.

Derp. Posted to wrong thread.

Even if Wizards sent out pre cons with any card in legacy you wanted people on here would still find a way to complain, and then blame it on Brainstorm and call for its ban.

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

I hope they are smart enough to reprint all the expensive Fish, DnT and Elves cards. While you do need RL cards for optimal Elves, you could play in a local store without them. The others don't need RL cards at all.

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What is expensive in Fish other than FoW and Wasteland that is not already modern legal?
I would like to see at least 1 of Natural Order or glimpse of Nature in the set for elves.
Port should be included as well as a way to tank its MODO price and get Lotus to be the most expensive card on MODO.

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Originally Posted by HdH_Cthulhu

Also you dont need a playset of duals. It really helps if you have just 1 to fetch... I have about 25/40 duals and this is enough to build most of the manabases...

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I have 24 (4 Trop,4 Sea, 4 tundra,4 Volcanic,2 Bayou,2 Savannah,1 Badlands,1 Scrubland,1 Taiga,1 Plateau) and am fine for almost every deck I look at and would like to play in terms of colored sources. Though I kind of want to go up to at least 2 of each to make building EDH easier. normally when I look at a man base and go "nuts" it is because of either Tabernacle, Port or Cradel

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

I already run two and I am looking on cutting back to one again. Your trying to fit to much in a small space and Tab is just not optimal as a two of.

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A second Tabernacle with a different name would be a little better, no?

The meta is heavy with Storm and Miracles these days. If we had a lot more Delver, Elves, Blade, and D&T you might be less inclined to cut Tabernacle number two?

Something else to consider here is that WoTC might be testing the waters to see if they want to push Legacy as a format. They've seen Modern take off over the last couple years, and have sold out of Modern Masters. They obviously recognize that printing cards for that format and reprinting highly sought after cards would make them money. If they don't try it, the Chinese counterfeiters will do it instead, and do it cheaper. Those cards are already virtually indistinguishable from the real thing. The RL is really the only thing holding Wizards back from cashing in.

Unless it won't be for long.

If this is a test, and EM sells out hard and fast, they just might pull the trigger and get rid of the RL. The summer supplemental sets have done well, and there's even the possibility of more. Modern has turned into a shit show with its banlist, but Legacy has done very well - in terms of balance - on its own with minimal interference. Legacy might be the Eternal hero WoTC needs.

Plus, Hasbro and Mattel are looking to merge. There might be outside pressure to do away with the RL.

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Originally Posted by cartoonist

Something else to consider here is that WoTC might be testing the waters to see if they want to push Legacy as a format. They've seen Modern take off over the last couple years, and have sold out of Modern Masters. They obviously recognize that printing cards for that format and reprinting highly sought after cards would make them money. If they don't try it, the Chinese counterfeiters will do it instead, and do it cheaper. Those cards are already virtually indistinguishable from the real thing. The RL is really the only thing holding Wizards back from cashing in.

Unless it won't be for long.

If this is a test, and EM sells out hard and fast, they just might pull the trigger and get rid of the RL. The summer supplemental sets have done well, and there's even the possibility of more. Modern has turned into a shit show with its banlist, but Legacy has done very well - in terms of balance - on its own with minimal interference. Legacy might be the Eternal hero WoTC needs.

Plus, Hasbro and Mattel are looking to merge. There might be outside pressure to do away with the RL.

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I can buy this theory.

HasbroMattelTron will have more than enough money to buy the legal dream team and fend off those pesky collectors' class action lawsuits. If they can, they'll rake in a boatload of cash just to reprint some of these old cards. Printing money, really.

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Originally Posted by cartoonist

Something else to consider here is that WoTC might be testing the waters to see if they want to push Legacy as a format. They've seen Modern take off over the last couple years, and have sold out of Modern Masters. They obviously recognize that printing cards for that format and reprinting highly sought after cards would make them money. If they don't try it, the Chinese counterfeiters will do it instead, and do it cheaper. Those cards are already virtually indistinguishable from the real thing. The RL is really the only thing holding Wizards back from cashing in.

Unless it won't be for long.

If this is a test, and EM sells out hard and fast, they just might pull the trigger and get rid of the RL. The summer supplemental sets have done well, and there's even the possibility of more. Modern has turned into a shit show with its banlist, but Legacy has done very well - in terms of balance - on its own with minimal interference. Legacy might be the Eternal hero WoTC needs.

Plus, Hasbro and Mattel are looking to merge. There might be outside pressure to do away with the RL.

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I love this; I hope you are on to something here.

I would love to think that a motivator as pure and base as "making money" could motivate an RL demolition session, but really they could have done this at any time over the last 5 years (or since Legacy became A Thing, so much longer ago) and made their money directly from the sale of reprinted Eternal staples instead of making it indirectly by printing like Standard cards that Legacy players want (Jace TMS and Dig Through Time and other junk that has made a name for itself). Like whatever heat that collectors think they could bring is instantly paid off in hype by just showing a new-border dual as a preview card. Hell they coulda thrown them into EDH precons and still made a fuckton of money.

I mean I'd love to believe that the combined corporate greed of Hasbro and Mattel could lead to a reprint of The Good Shit but if the RP is "just a promise" then this is a trigger they woulda pulled years ago.

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Originally Posted by cartoonist

If this is a test, and EM sells out hard and fast, they just might pull the trigger and get rid of the RL. The summer supplemental sets have done well, and there's even the possibility of more. Modern has turned into a shit show with its banlist, but Legacy has done very well - in terms of balance - on its own with minimal interference. Legacy might be the Eternal hero WoTC needs.

Plus, Hasbro and Mattel are looking to merge. There might be outside pressure to do away with the RL.

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You REALLY don't want that WotC pays too much attention to Legacy or turns it into a broadly supported format or adds it to the Pro Tour, otherwise Mr. "Gentlemen's Agreement" would turn Legacy into SFM vs Tarmogoyf.

Before that happens I would hope that they have learnt something from Modern and mostly leave us be. I mean there are cards that are in need of a banning and unbanning, but in all a soft touch is all that would be needed to make the format flow just as it has been without issue.

Scenario 1: They abolish the reserve list. This completely throws everything up in the air. This might lead them to consolidate all three non-rotating formats (Modern, Legacy, Vintage) into one format and have that be their once-a-year protour format. It might lead to Modern being discontinued and Legacy taking its place while Vintage remaining what it is today (reprinting power in any meaningful way still feels unlikely even with no RL). It also might not change anything and Modern continues being Modern with Legacy left to its own devices. Probably numerous other outcomes are possible if the RL goes and it's hard to really say which one is more likely.

Scenario 2: They maintain the reserve list. This could, and quite possibly will, just mean that things remain the way they are. We get 2-3 (but eventually probably just 1 or none) Legacy GPs a year and the rest is what private organizers choose to do. This is in a pre-EMA announcement universe. With EMA they are - quite out of the blue - showing signs that they have an interest in openly supporting Legacy (and Vintage). Where before things have been sneaked into the format via one-of sets like Conspiracy or through the Commander products. With this they are showing that they are willing to explore a more direct support of Legacy - the obvious reason being that it will likely be a huge seller. What does this mean in terms of tournament support etc? I'm hopeful that it might mean a few more GPs in years to come. I think, 100 %, that this won't mean a Legacy Protour. It also might mean nothing at all and EMA is just a one-of thing like Conspiracy. Regardless this should be welcomes as something immensely positive, I feel, and basically what nearly all of us have been craving for years.

It was just a short time ago that Wotc opened up FNM to all formats. Now we have eternal masters as a "test" for how much eternal can really be supported. We've also seen some fairly reasonable ban/unbans over the past couple years. All of this points my opinion towards this stance: wotc wants to support eternal, but from a distance so it doesn't upset the community. This em set is their boldest move yet and truly think they are testing the waters for making legacy more accessible.