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Not really. It sets up like Threshold and plays LIKE it, but it actually only runs 11 nonland cards that Threshold runs. It uses the strategy of cantriping to build storm/shape it's hand before going off/find answers, but that doesn't mean it can support every card that's played in Threshold. Though it probably could support Counterbalance.Quote:
Originally Posted by WiLdFiRe
This deck's basic gameplan and Thresh's are very similar - Thresh drops a cheap fat creature and protects it to victory, while this deck just goes straight for the throat in a quicker kill, with less protection. Each has it's pro's and cons but I would argue that it's the same basic shell at the lowest level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mental
As I said, this deck and Thresh set up the same way and both protect their kill. Shit man, half the decks in Magic Protect their kill. That doesn't make them Threshold - this deck doesn't protect it's kill in the same way Thresh does. But I guess the strategy of very few lands and cantrips does draw comparisons, and I won't hesitate to say that this is the Threshold of storm decks. But you are correct that at the most basic level, this deck and Threshold have the same gameplan - Set up with Cantrips, kill with Protection. The next part of Thresh's plan - playing undercosted beats - obviously does not manifest in this deck. So yes, you are right that at the most basic level this deck is Threshold.Quote:
Originally Posted by WiLdFiRe
As an aside, have people tested running 4 Slithermuse as sort of a Draw 7/4 style threat to ramp up Threshold for Cabal Ritual and go off with Tendrils of Agony? Even as a one of, hitting Infernal + LED on the first turn for a one sided, 7 card windfall + Threshold is pretty fucking nuts, that card seems really underutilized in here.
Why would an unreliable draw four for one more mana be better then anything currently run?Quote:
Originally Posted by BreathWeapon
Slithermuse can net more than 4 cards, no loss of life, and at a semi-easier mana combination. But you are right, it's unreliable.
Mid-Combo:
Draw 4s draw 4. Life loss doesn't matter because you should be winning.
Slithermuse is unreliable.
Setup:
Draw 4s are huge as a setup card. This is where I use them most frequently.
Slithermuse sucks as a setup card. When you're setting up, your hand should contain 4-7 cards. 3U - maybe draw 2 is bad.
Recovery after failed combo attempt:
Here Slithermuse is better - in some situations. If your opponent has FoWed you don't draw more than 5. Too unreliable, although the life loss of Draw 4s hurts most in this situation.
Conclusion: Not a chance.
It's still a solid Infernal Tutor/Death Wish target, I've been hitting turn 1/2 wins off of it quite a bit.
It is not a SOLID target. If you dont want the life loss run fricken meditate... Dont run that horrid creature. The only time I see it being even remotely decent is midcombo where it would net about 4 cards prolly (assumeing you try turn 2 on the play; less if you try later) in which case Meditate is simply cheaper. Plus you oppoent could royally screw you up if they simply stifle its effect preventing the shot at double tendrils do to lack of cards in your hand or they could simply empty there hand though things such as swordsing it and extirpating cards from your yard.
Simply put the card is to unreliable to be very abusive.
There's a difference between running it as a threat and running it as a tutor target, going off with it on turn 1 for a one sided Windfall is nothing short of ridiculous, Meditate isn't even comparable.Quote:
Originally Posted by nodahero
First of all, going off with Slithermuse on turn 1 is extremely unlikely. You need either land + Petal + Petal + Petal/Ritual + Slithermuse or land + Ritual + Infernal + LED. The first possibility is extremely unlikely, and the second possibility just seems like a waste of resources; spending a Ritual, an Infernal, an LED, and the rest of your hand to potentially draw a new set of 7 seems bad. Second, in order for Slithermuse to be better than Meditate, you would need your opponent to have 5 more cards in hand than you. In other words, they would need to have a full grip if you have as many as two cards in hand... again, the likelihood of this happening is extremely slim. In any other situation, Meditate will probably be as good as, if not better, than Slithermuse in terms of drawing you cards. And you don't see people running Meditate.Quote:
Originally Posted by BreathWeapon
Basically, what you're saying doesn't make any sense. I don't understand how you see the two cards as serving completely different purposes. And I don't understand why you would think that Slithermuse is at all necessary in this deck.
I think Slithermuse is not fitting at all to this deck. If you really wanted to abuse card advantage, I might as well have wished for Diminishing Returns which draws you SEVEN consistently (although it is bad as a wish target itself, requiring 2UU).
Just curious, but has anyone come up with a list running Manamorphose?
This card just seems too good in Storm to ignore. It also fixes our mana pool and may work great with Mystical Tutor, acting like Street Wraith 6-8 under the condition we have two mana. The only problem will be the R mana cost (I don't think we will ever use G, but for people running ETW, it might be possible to pull off R consistently. Lotus petal perhaps may do the job?)
That card is fucking terrible in FT for rather obvious reasons. We cut SW for Top anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by crz87
In some metas.Quote:
Originally Posted by emidln
That aside, Muse is terrible in all of them. It's almost always strictly worse than a Draw4 or even, hell, Diminishing Returns. And we all know who the only one to support that cards inclusion was...
@Manamorphase: It's alright in this deck, I guess. The problem is, A) Red Sucks, B) Street Wraith is generally better. That's just how it looks for me.
Wrong. In no metagame would you ever want a card that costs red mana to give you red mana when red mana is not a primary color. You never need multiple red mana. The same is true for green. As a cantrip, I can think of at least 50 cards that do something more relevant than this, and we've recently played several of them (most current Sensei's Divining Top). I'm fairly convinced that the only playable red card is Pyroclasm at this point, and I've yet to see a matchup that plays both Mage and Teeg.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mental
I was referring to Street Wraith vs. SDT. Not Manamorphase.Quote:
Originally Posted by emidln
Just in case you happened to read the card wrong, Manamorphose gives you *any* combination of colours, not just red and green. So you can turn 1R or 1G into BB, UB, or UU if needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by emidln
The deck never needs to grab any combination of colors. Until you are ready to combo out, the deck requires only blue mana. When you combo, the deck needs an amount of white mana (found from up for four duals and up to four Lotus Petal) equal to the number of chant effects and a single black mana (if any black mana at all since it's fairly easy to combo out using LED and Top/Brainstorm/Ponder if you want to).Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihil
Just fired the deck up at MWS and I goldfished the deck ten times on the play, every time killing on turn 3 (turn 3 is of course when MWS says "it is now turn 5"), and only one opening hand had a mulligan. This was pretty good, and I like the deck. However, are these goldfish kills too slow, or do I choose the wrong openings? What should a pretty good hand contain at the least?
And BTW, I've not used Empty the Warrens yet. Is this used against aggro decks as an emergency plan to build blockers while you assemble combo parts for your next takeoff with tendrils?
Turn 3 is the standard for this deck, almost every hand can combo on turn 3, and on that turn you have a good number of Chant protected wins too.Quote:
Originally Posted by willoe
Just goldfishing the deck a lot wil bring you to more turn 2s, as you will likely see better the win in your opening hands. I had the same problem at the beginning. It also depends on which version you are playing: if you're playing Sensei's Tops over Street Wraith you'll obv get slower hands with a better matchup against control.
The things I look for in an opening hand if I want to combo fast are:
- LED
- Infernal Tutors
- Dark rituals
Obviously Mystical tutor can get you IT and DR, so LED is the piece of acceleration I usally look for.
A general rule could be: if you have 2+ cantrips then your hand is likely to win on turn 3. If your hand contains a LED and an IT it's likely to win on turn 2.
ETW is almost always unnecessary in this deck, but it's a good threat if your oppo is unprepared to it (unlikely but possible). I use it vs Extirpate usually, when you can't Orim/Abeyance the opponent. It supports well the Aggro plan with Wraiths and Confidants too.