You Zombardment pilots will enjoy this Therapy play I saw.
https://clips.twitch.tv/YummyEsteemedWaspDansGame
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You Zombardment pilots will enjoy this Therapy play I saw.
https://clips.twitch.tv/YummyEsteemedWaspDansGame
Although not the same as the last hope, and 1 mana more, but have any of you guys checked out her:
Liliana, Untouched by Death
Looks like more synergy.
Minor Side adjustments today:
-1 Sculler (2 now)
-1 Fleshbag (2 now)
+1 Liliana of the Veil (Covers both)
+1 Engineered Explosives (2 now)
Quote:
Originally Posted by maCHOOga
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qweerios
Awesome - Therapy is such a great card and mastering it without easymode-Probe was always a key element in this deck (or Nic Fit, Elves etc.) Therapy gets better if you knew the format/decks/meta well enough and hitting with it isnt so difficult with experience. Brainstorm is always a solid blind call T1 otp. I remember a game i hit 3 delvers (i knew the enemy deck) blind g1 otp and my opponent scooped immediately :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by LOLWut
EDIT
4 Mana without DRS seems too much unless you want a super late game walker, but as i mentioned above this deck is already very good to grind out (and you have many things to do with spare mana) and overall the new Liliana don't look so strong - yes we run a bunch of Zombies but we already run Ghast/Souls a lot of non-creature spells (even more with Sideboard Options). So all of here abilities can also do near to nothing, i would run Sorin, Solemn Visitor/Sorin, Lord of Innistrad and other cc4 walkers here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xod
Took down a 4 round 30ish players weekly with an experimental list. I got lucky against a few nightmare matchups. Here's the list and a brief report:
4 Stitcher's Supplier
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
1 Rotting Rats
1 Scourge of Nel Toth
2 Entomb
2 Snuff Out
2 Abrade
4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls
3 Goblin Bombardment
1 Undiscovered Paradise
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Polluted Delta
3 Marsh Flats
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Badlands
3 Scrubland
2 Swamp
//SB
1 Remorseful Cleric
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Fatal Push
3 Wear // Tear
2 Sudden Demise
3 Liliana of the Veil
R1: Lands 2-1
G1 I get Waste-Loamed T1
G2 is long and grindy I stall Chasm, Stage, Depths and Tabernacle while I wait with an army and a Bombardment. She has no Exploration so Stage copying Chasm eventually gets her when I extract Stage and Chasm.
G3 I put some Thoughtseize back, nail a KGrip and manage to Surgical PFire and race Lage token with souls and Ghasts. Entomb for Souls was amazing
R2: Mono Black Burn brew 2-0
Nothing to report here other than I had to aggro him out and it worked great. Casting Rats to put a Crawler in the GY and get a discard was great. I then Entombed for Scourge and shut the door.
R3: 4c Loam 2-1
G1: I have a have a T1 Supplier and a good hand to play around him T1 Chalice. Souls + Ghast beats get there with a Snuff Out on KotR.
G2: My opponent opens with a Leyline of the Void and a T1 Chalice. Abrade gets the Chalice but I cant find an answer to Leyline and his PFires amd wrecking me. He finds another Chalice before I find wear.
G3: T1 Supplier gets Bog'd but I ride a Liliana to victory with a Ghast, Souls, and Bombardment.
R4: Grixis Control 2-1
G1: I play and flashback 3 Souls, he is overwhelmed
G2: I keep a Paradise + Looting opener and develop too slow. I lose to Needle on Bombardment and Engineered Plague on Spirits. In come the 3 Wear...
G3: I get some good discard but he hides a Plague with brainstorm and shuts my Zombie plan. Ghast + Souls + Bombardment get there in the end.
Props:
-Entomb was great for Ghast, Therapy, and Souls saved my ass.
-Scourge as a 1-of has to be respected and is a great target for Entomb. I bought 2 but I won't be playing both.
-Rotting Rats is surprisingly good when played naturally. Even though I didn't Entomb for it, it often influenced my decisions on how I would extend and rebuild.
Slops:
-I should have included the 4th Badlands and it nearly cost me a game.
Going forward I have mixed feelings about Rats but they are definitely worth more testing. Even thouh Entomb is great, I am still hesitant about playing more copies as they did come out for G2-3 when I was expecting heavy GY hate. I also want to vary my GY hate package by splitting Extraction with perhaps 2 Nihil Spellbombs or Remorseful Cleric. I want some non-Surgical GY hate that can be splashed for various matchups. I also want a 4th enchantment hate piece and I thought of 1-2 Vindicates in my SB. Having no means to interact with lands felt very desperate. Vindicate is also great in many matchups when you don't necessarily want to bring in Wear but could be faced with random hate (RUG with Cage for example, or Grixis Control with Plague and Needle for instance).
Got 3rd at a weekly legacy with 12 players going 3-1 last night using a very similar list to Qweerios non-entomb build. I beat DnT, High Tide, and UW RIP-Helm control. Lost to a turbo-angler build of grixis delver. A couple things I noticed was snuff out was amazing in both the delver and DnT matchup. I would not have thought of that card had I not read this thread. Carrion feeder sped up the clock against High Tide but otherwise I wasn’t impressed with him and there weren’t many spots where I felt I needed a carrion feeder. I am definitely going to slot in cryptbreakers and see how those go. Thank you all for the in-depth discussions on this deck since the banning of DRS.
Well done! Especially against UW RiP-Helm, that MU is rough. You could always try Dismember over Snuff Out if you have a Turbo Angler player in your meta. Not hitting Germ Token, Gurmag, Leo, and Bob are the big downsides to Snuff. Goyfs rarely get bigger than 4/5 and early KotR are usually within range too. Leo and Gurmag see much less play now but they are still relevant cards that can put a dent in our plans. Dismember offers more coverage and flexibility but costs 1 mana. It shouldn't be an issue if you can avoid Daze and Thalia. Another cool thing about Dismember is that you can hit a Magus of the Moon through a Chalice without a Swamp. I would drop Snuff for Dismember in a heartbeat if my meta called for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ottomanottoman
I tested 4 Feeders for a while but cut down to 3, then down to 2, and now 0. The less Feeders I saw, the better the deck performed. I ended up cutting Feeder entirely for 2 Cryptbreakers instead of 2 Entomb. What ended up happening was that I was never in a position where I wanted to activate him even though I could. Getting a 2/2 by dumping a Ghast is great but not worth the card, tempo and mana investment (3 mana over 2 turns just to discard a card). Given the choice I preffer to flashback Looting and get through more cards in nearly every case. Ghast and Crawler are the only cards you actually want to discard to Breaker rather than casting them. That isn't a whole lot... Please let us know about your experiences with Breaker. Personally, Entomb is the card I crave more than ever now that I have a Scourge plan lategame. Entomb is the card I want at every stage in the game and it grabs the missing piece of the puzzle for some degenerate synergy. Take these common lines of play for example:
-T1 Seize and T2 Therapy. Entomb puts the Ghast on time in the GY for some tripple discard by T2 and sets you up for recursion. You can also Entomb for a Therapy if you need interaction against combo.
-T1 Entomb for Ghast knowing that you can T2 Bombardment and ping that Mom, Lackey, Elf or Infecter if we are on the play.
-Entomb for Souls if you know Depths is about to happen
-Entomb for Scourge when the ground is stalled by fatties
I know I will be on Entomb with a singleton Scourge for a while!
Another thing I've been pondering lately is the inclusion of a 4th piece of GY hate and how it would vary from Surgical. Other GY decks are more degenerate than ours and we rely on some heavy GY hate to take them down. Given that my meta has some notorious Lands and 4c Loam players, some Bomberman and the omnipresent Reanimators, I figured Extirpate might be a great inclusion. Split Second is super relevant against PFire, Loam with cycle lands, and LED when Bomberman is going off. It can also throw off some manaless Dredge players that want to cycle Wraiths in response to Surgical. It won't get countered by counterspells either against UB Reanimator. I initially wanted a pair of Remorseful Clerics for the full GY nuke and flying beats but 2 mana for GY hate won't cut it against Dredge, Reanimator, and PFire. I will definitely try a 2/2 Surgical/Extirpate split going forward.
My early testing with this deck after the banning was with an entomb+scourge. I was definitely impressed with the dragon as well but for the weekly I wanted to try out the gurmag list. Being able to get gurmag often by T3 and sometimes even T2 if stitcher binned a bunch of inconsequential cards felt REALLY good for sure and quickly put the pressure on. However, I have definitely had a handful of games so far where the dragon got me out of spots that gurmag would not. I get it’s early in the meta and small sample size etc. etc. but so far I agree with you that the dragon is worth a slot or two. I’ll also slot in dismembers in for snuff out and report back how that goes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Qweerios
I've been on and off with this deck since the banning but finally got in some practice this past week. What I've noticed so far for the maindeck:
-Scourge of Nel Toth is a miserable top deck. I get it, you are supposed to entomb for it, but every once in a while it shows up on top and feels like a time walk for your opponent. I started out with 3, which definitely amplified the issue, but even having one will be an issue sometimes.
-Carrion Feeder still leaves me underwhelmed. I didn't like it in the DRS days and it still seems mediocre, yes it gets big, but tribal can't block isn't exactly fun to play sometimes. A big part of aggro mirrors is determining who is the beatdown, and this kind of takes away that aspect of the game. It also doesn't close fast enough imo to be stick around.
-Tidehollow Sculler is weaker without carrion feeder around. It's still a good card, but it isn't exactly what it used to be. I've cut to 0 in my list but more so to clean up my mana base by getting to fetch basic swamp earlier.
-Smuggler's Copter seemed reasonable in theory but always came up as underwhelming for me. It may just be that it was a win more style of card. It's great putting you ahead, when you're on board, but didn't pull back too much from behind.
-Mutavault was something I tried prior to sticher's supplier being legal in paper. It's a zombie and triggers gravecrawler, but a colorless land in such a greedy manabase is as close to a hard pass as possible. Opening hands were weird to evaluate with mutavault in the lands.
-Entomb was surprisingly not necessary, I was sure that all the entomb lists coming out were just wrong, but the deck still functioned. I've kept entombs in for the moment but it makes more sense to me.
-Stitcher's supplier is the truth. I'm not sure what has helped this deck more, banning DRS or printing this but it does add a ton of consistency.
-Gravecrawler this card is wonderful, but I tend to not run more than 1. It adds to the doesn't block side of things, and doesn't come in with haste. It does provide pressure though, and always keeps a body around.
-Lingering Souls the card is great, reasonable to cast on both halves, and provides flyers. The one complaint is that it does not provide zombies, and that's ok.
-Bridge From Below seems to be strong and worth consideration. It has the same issue in my opinion as scourge, but does a little more in building up an unreasonable amount of zombies. I readily accept the fact that I am biased by having played this card a ton already, so I accept the fact that not playing the card may also be right.
-Umezawa's Jitte always was where I wanted it when I wanted it. I drew it against maverick and d&t a bunch, and I milled it with supplier against combo decks like a pro. So, with that said, it did everything I wanted and seemed great. I'm more interested in seeing how bad it is when it doesn't show up vs fair decks, or when I need thoughtseize against ANT and draw jitte. Needs more testing for sure but I do like it at the moment.
-Burning Inquiry is absolutely hilarious. It was reasonable each time I cast it but also seemed like I could have just wanted discard spells most of the time.
And just to separate things a little bit, for the sideboard somethings I've noticed:
-Hollow One alongside burning inquiry, the sideboard starts to look like a modern deck, and a lot of fair decks stumble against early 4/4s and 5/5s. That being said, most of the fair decks already felt as reasonable match ups and I wanted sideboard slots todeal with more unfair decks.
-Bitterblossom still doesn't defeat combo decks, but is a 1 card transformational sideboard plan that fights around gravehate. It is definitely cleaner than hollow one, but also doesn't close as quickly.
-Urborg Justice is the truth. Whole truth. Nothing but the truth. Opponent has 2 Nimble mongoose and a true name? No problem, sacrifice a couple of bloodghast to bombardment and have a toxic deluge for 2. Tag Marit lage tokens, SnS/reanimator targets, and otherwise keep a copy around. Plus the art is fantastic and if I have 1 goal it's to make the deck mono Vorthos artwork.
-Flame of Keld surprisingly put in a ton of work the 1 time I cast it. That being said, I never wanted to see it any other time and rarely boarded it in. While sweet, it ate up sb slots.
-Coffin Purge was interesting for the surprise factor, but too slow where you really want it. Except against lands, it was great against lands.
Otherwise, my sideboard was pretty straightforward most of the time with surgicals, duress, wear//tear being mainstays. I haven't tried ensnaring bridge yet, but that has crossed my mind as a way to "interact" with the cheat fatty combo decks. I keep looking for a transformational sideboard plan, but I've found that the best way to beat hate is just to play through it. Try not to expose bloodghast to surgical, keep up fetches for rip, and mulligan aggressively to discard spells, especially on the draw, and hopefully things will break in your favor.
Hi Zombardment followers!
Back home from 3 weeks vacation and immediately started brewing in the new No-Deathrite-meta ;-)
I just 5-0 with this decklist Legacy Leaque 29/7 -2018
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1242230#paper
I am not sure for Kitesail Freebooter ... maybe just
1) another Thoughtseize or
2) one more Dark Confidant or maybe even better
3) one Scourge of Nel Toth for a different angle of attack and also a sac effect that can be tutored with entomb
Pyrexeian Altar enables combo win ... did that a couple of games :-)
ReneRandrup
So Sculler will always be better than free booter because it's a zombie for gravecrawler, and uses the old two-trigger templating which allows you to sacrifice-in-response and permanently remove the card.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReneRandrup
Played a small local tournament last weekend (18 Players / 5 Rounds) and gave the new Stitcher Version a first real spin.
1:2 Burn (can't beat two eidolons g2 and run out of gas g3)
2:1 ANT (g1 never saw land 2, g2-3 was like it should be vs this deck)
2:1 Eldrazi Stompy (was close to beat Chalice G1.. G2 got a super fast start, G3 Carrion Feeder won the grind)
0:2 Sneak Show (G1 close but overall not the right mix of dísruption+beats, G2 i die vs new Artisan Tech with Marauder in Hand but only two lands for several turns...)
2:0 Grixis Control (G1 was over super fast, G2 i won vs 3 Surgical Extractions fast again).
3:2 and missing some good matchups like 2 miracle decks, overall many stompy decks around (1 Eldrazi, 2 Steel, 1 Moon) and burn overall never was a good matchup too. Overall performance was okay and i won the style award too.
Decklist:
4 Carrion Feeder
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
4 Stitcher's Supplier
2 Scourge of Nel Toth
1 Gurmag Angler
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls
4 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
3 Goblin Bombardment
3 Badlands
3 Swamp
3 Scrubland
1 Undiscovered Paradise
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
//Sideboard
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Fleshbag Marauder
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Wear // Tear
1 Darkblast
2 Abrade
1 Kolaghan's Command
Notes:
Never won the dice roll - so always starting behind...
Decided to cut 1 Dragon to test out Angler but the big Fish only showed up 2 Times, vs ANT i couldn't cast him G1 since i missed the 2nd Land and needed to disrupt my opponent and the time Gurmag entered the field it was to late since i faced Tendrils next turn. The game vs Sneak and Show i couldnt fill the yard fast enough (yah sometimes...) and died with it in hand. Dragon won quickly vs Burn and BUG but i maybe keep up both since Angler can still be usefull (castable from hand, goes around Extraction/Cage and reuseable with K.Command) - speaking about Kolaghan's Command i made this last minute switch over Liliana of the Veil since i saw so many Chalice decks and wanted another option that also plays well with Marauder Tech. Only draw Command once but it wasnt the right situation to cast it. Fleshbag itself was usefull vs Burn, really good vs Eldrazi (but my SnT opponent saw it here too...) and would have won me the game vs SnT if i had drawn the third land... so i will keep this dude around. Its not a surprise that Abrade was a really good card and i like the cc2 solution that will also find a creature target in most cases too.
Carrion Feeder doesnt get the right spotlight here (every last MODO list also uses the playset...) and i can't imagine we really discuss the cut of it here. Card is critical vs every white (Swords/Path) deck and can instantly switch the decks place from disruption to aggro. Since it can grow the turn it hits the field or easily go later with every Ghast+Landdrop it is way faster than every other cc1 zombie. It won me the stall vs Eldrazi since i was able to quickly get a 5/5+ before the next chalice entered the field and i my opponent couldn't win with TKS+Endbringer (that can easily wreak the decks 2/1 or 1/1 swarms). Sure he can't block and if you are really behind he is a worst card but the deck is full with that stuff anyway and you need to get the right pieces and keep the game under control either with disruption, very fast beats or both elements mixed up well.
What do you usually board out? Discard against fair decks? Souls against combo decks?
Here are my (incomplete) notes and SB map:Quote:
Originally Posted by Xod
Zombardment
Creatures (14)
4 Stitcher's Supplier
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
1 Rotting Rats
1 Scourge of Nel Toth
Spells (22)
2 Entomb
2 Abrade
2 Snuff Out
4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls
Others (3)
3 Goblin Bombardment
Lands (21)
1 Undiscovered Paradise
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
4 Badlands
3 Scrubland
2 Swamp
Sideboard
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Extirpate* / Remorseful Spirit
2 Zealous Persecution / Sudden Demise
3 Wear // Tear
3 Fatal Push
3 Liliana of the Veil
Aggro
DnT
-4 TS -4 Therapy
+3 Wear +3 Push +2 Demise/ZP
Eldrazi
-4 TS -4 Therapy -1 Bombardment
+3 Wear +3 Push +3 Liliana
Canadian ZP
-4 TS -4 Therapy
+3 Push +3 Liliana +2 ZP/Spirit
Goblins SD
-4 TS -4 Therapy
+3 Push +2 Demise/ZP +3 Liliana
Maverick/Bant ZP
-4 TS -4 Therapy
+2 Wear +3 Push +3 Liliana
Infect ZP
-1 Scourge -1 Rats -1 Paradise -2 Souls?
+3 Push +2 ZP?
Burn
-4 TS -2 Snuff
+3 Push +3 Liliana
Red Stompy
-3 Therapy
+3 Wear
Combo
Reanimator
-1 Rats -2 Snuff -2 Abrade -2 Souls
+2 Surgical +2 Extirpate +3 Liliana
Turbo Depths
-2 Snuff -2 Abrade
+3 Liliana
Storm
-1 Scourge -2 Snuff -2 Abrade -4 Souls
+2 Surgical +2 Extirpate/Spirit +2 Demise/ZP +3 Liliana
Sneak n Show
-1 Scourge -2 Snuff -2 Abrade -3 Souls
+2 Surgical +3 Wear +3 Liliana
Elves SD
-2 Abrade -3 Souls
+3 Push +2 SD
Control
Miracle
-1 Scourge -2 Snuff -2 Abrade -1 Badlands
+3 Wear +3 Liliana
Stoneblade ZP
-1 Scourge -2 Snuff -3 Therapy
+3 Wear +3 Liliana
Lands
-2 Snuff -2 Abrade -3 Therapy
+2 Surgical +2 Extirpate/Spirit +3 Wear
Grixis
-2 Snuff -1 Badlands
+3 Liliana
4c Loam
-4 TS -4 Therapy -2 Entomb -1 Rats
+2 Extirpate/Spirit +3 Push +3 Wear +3 Liliana
@ReneRandrup,
Cool list! Everytime I try and rationalize cutting Souls and including Decay it ends up not worth it. Souls plays a crucial role and is our main source of grind against control and some combo decks (Depths and Griselbrand). Decay is phenomenal for us but Wear // Tear plays a crucial role as a CMC 1 enchantment removal for Leylines Sanctity/Void. Hopefully the new Ravnica block will grant us a BW functional Vindicate!
Have a pair of 2-1's to report on. One on mtgo, one in paper. I meant to type this up earlier, but life is crazy per the norm.
4 bloodghast
4 gravecrawler
4 stitcher's supplier
3 carrion feeder
2 gurmag angler
~*~*~*~
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls
4 Thoughtseize
-> 2 Dismember
-> 1 Liliana, the Last Hope
3 Goblin Zombardment
*~*~*~*
11 Black Fetchlands
3 Badlands
3 Swamp
3 Scrublands
1 Undiscovered Paradise
*~* Sideboard *~*
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Wear / Tear
2 Fleshbag Marauder
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Collective Brutality
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
I hedged and slide a liliana maindeck as I heading into a metagame that is usually ripe with death and taxes.
MTGO:
Round 1: (2-1) Goblins w. maindeck chalice, pyrokensis + 4 Leyline SB
-> The only reason I won this round was because they drew triple leyline in game 3, kept and I was able to go on the agro plan.
Round 2: (1-2) Eldrazi
-> I accidently misclicked, stifled myself with a fetch and it cost me the match.
Round 3: (2-0) Monoblack Reanimator
-> This is a super budget version and shouldn't count towards records.
Paper:
Round 1: (2-0) Storm
-> I think this matchup is 55/45 in our favor depending if they have a turn 1. I feel like its 5% per turn with all the discard that we have.
Round 2: (1-2) Punishing Maverick
-> Jitte, KotR and Punishing Fire. This matchup seems 20/80 in their favor unless things break perfectly in our favor.
Round 3: (2-1) RB Reanimator
-> Game 1 feels near impossible unless you win the die roll. G2 them mulliganed to 4 which was a non-game. G3 they went all in with an elesh norn. I managed to survive and played a fleshbag marauder and quickly turned the corner.
I would never board out to much discard - especially since its this decks way to disrupt game plans. While 2-4 TS can be cutted vs Aggro (especially if you also run stuff like Collective Brutality or Liliana or Sculler) i keep in Cabal Therapy in every matchup, its a super strong card once you know the meta and decks floating around. It can discard 2+ cards, even if you dont hit blind this decks easily can reuse the card - at the end its still okay to land in the yard via Stitcher/Looting if you dont need it now. Discard overs Protection for Graveyard-Hate, Exile-Removal or Counters for important Stuff like Bombardment or Sideboard-Answers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xod
Since the deck will face Graveyard Hate Game 2 (more "Hard answer" without DRS) you need a way around it (Hate-Hate or alternative cards like Bitterblossom) end should focus less on the yard too. Every fair deck will have a hard time once you enable the core enginees like Ghast/Crawler with Bombardment/Feeder so you dont need Bridge/Entomb/Dragon or should at least trim some copies. Same is true for Stitcher vs some Decks, while Stitcher is awesome G1 vs opponents that can't interact with your yard, its a higher risk after boarding. You not only expose you vs Graveyard hate, you also can hit sideboard cards. So i often cut 2 Stitcher Game 2 and 1-2 fatties too. Overall it depend on the hate pieces, Extraction will be thrown at Ghast/Crawler/Souls in most cases and you can play around it sometimes, Containment Priest will not shut down Crawler or Scourge, Grafdigger's Cage is back in the Meta too - Angler works fine against it, Bridge from Below isnt dead too. Leyline or RiP are harder since it needs an answer, RiP at least can be discarded or easier destroyed if you keep in mind cards like E.Explosives too (a good sweeper vs DnT since they run so many good cc2 cards and thalia will not tax EE if played right).
If you run Abrade you should keep it vs Sneak and Show too since it handles Grafdigger's Cage or Arcane Artisan Tech well and both will be common side answers from your opponent.
Here's another list I 5-0 with on the 2 august 2018
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1249857#paper
Played against
1) 4 color control with conterbalance 2-1
2) BUG Delver 2-1
3) Eldrazi 2-0
4) 4 color control 2-0
5) Sneak and show 2-0
I for sure prefer Black/Red (splash for green) builds and with entomb and bridges over white and Lingering souls.
Its way more explosive and allows some fast kills. I actually consider entomb the best card in the deck ... there are so many targets for it, but mostly its for bridge and that starts the snowball of zombies. I actually have both turn 3 and 4 kills with the deck.
Also bridge can turn any creature sac into a zombie and that is so powerfull. It dont even have to be a zombie to begin with. That opens up for including non-zombie creatures in the deck and in this build I play 2 Dark confidant and 1 Grim Lavamancer.
For fun I have testet 1 Pyrexian Altar over the third Bombarment and so far it has been good.
When playing with entomb/bridge u really have to know the deck and its triggers/interaction very well.
There have been many very close games and it was the small things that pulled the win though.
I am thinking of making some replay videos if anybody is interested.
They will be uploade on my youtube channel then ... where there actually are more older videos of zombie games since I have actually been playing/brewing zombies on/off for the last couple of years.
ReneRandrup
Would be awesome!!
Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk
@ReneRandrup
I agree with you that Entomb is phenomenal in the deck. I think it really shines pre-board. Unfortunately it doesn't line up too well with my postboard plans of avoiding GY dependency. Maybe I am wrong and it is simply too good not to play the full set. I've played 4 before and have definitely had many postboard games where I was holding a bunch of Entombs against a static piece of GY hate...
I am intrigued by your green > white version, especially because Decay is a card I wish I had mainboard. I can't help but notice that you play 29 CMC1 cards in the main with only 1 Grudge and 1 Decay in the board. I can't get behind a deck that plans on folding to Chalice. Only 1 Nature's Claim in the board means you likely won't be able to deal with Sanctity or Void in time. Reverent Silence comes to mind here. You've definitely been having success with Bridge and Feeders so that might be interresting to look into. Keep up the good work!
Since the deck is a tempo-based b/r deck... any thought to Backlash to answer Marit Lage and Gurmag Angler? Really nice vs Emrakul and the big eldrazi threats as well (it's even a discard outlet vs reality smasher). Decent vs goyf. At worst it's a lightning helix pointed at face vs delver & clique.
Medium vs germ tokens and vs griselbrand and the rest of reanimator, bad vs KotR and Endbringer because they can tap and make an illegal target. Bad vs TNN. bad-ish vs a suited up D&T threat because of Mom but could be used in response to protection from another effect.
edit: I feel like my post # is appropriate for the nonsense I just proposed. ;D
I prefer Urborg Justice. It can be a powerhouse in many matchup incl vs Marit Large / Gurmag / TNNQuote:
Originally Posted by jugglervr
Lastes results with zombardment
1)
I 5-2'ed in the Legacy Challenge and got 17th with this deck
https://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19797&d=327654&f=LE
2)
Also I just brewed a little with Squee's and made a Legacy Leaque 5-0 the 7 august with this deck
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1259481#paper
Played against
1) Rug Delver 2-0
2) Aluren 2-1
3) Death's Shadow 2-0
4) Burn 2-1
5) Miracles 2-0
Imortal Squee was super against miracles.
ReneRandrup
Hey there!
I got back to MTG around 2 months ago, straight to legacy, after a loooooong time (started playing in 95, got on and off a couple of times), and zombardment is the deck of choice for me, since I love the idea of the deck, and I already got some pieces and 3 badlands/1 scrub (I have a BR reanimator).
So, regarding removal, I think a very interesting card is Lightning Axe. 5 damage for one red mana and you take down almost all threats in the format and even dump a scourge/lingering souls/therapy/ghast/crawler to the grave in the process. What do you guys think?
About another sideboard option to avoid GY hate, how about the new red guy from commander 2018? Varchild, betrayer of kjeldor, 2R for a 3/3, when he deals damage to the player, the player gets 1/1 soldier (that cant block and cant attack you) tokens equal to the damage taken. When Varchild dies, you get the tokens!
Im having a hard time against eldrazi and burn atm!
Cheers!
I saw your lists posted yesterday. Well done! One day I'll get the courage/time to play in MTGO leagues again *sigh*. Anyway.... urborg justice is awesome, I didn't realize that card existed. Phyrexian altar + gravecrawler + 1 Bridge = Infinite zombies correct?Quote:
Originally Posted by ReneRandrup
Moving forward I definitely will try your build, as it seems awesome. I just need to wait for bridges to drop on MTGO, thanks BR vengevine. :-)
Yup ... infinite zombies AND manaQuote:
Originally Posted by maCHOOga
If you are running an Entomb package, have you ever considered Vengeful Pharaoh in the 75?Quote:
Originally Posted by ReneRandrup
Yup. Played it for at while, but didnt like it to much. You have to take a hit and opp can play around it by attacking with weaker creature.Quote:
Originally Posted by coff33bit
Or infinite damage with Gravecrawler + Bombardment + Alter if I'm not mistaken (provided you have a second zombie in play)?Quote:
Originally Posted by ReneRandrup
ReneRandrup, how critical is the Chains in the SB? I unfortunately sold my copy in order to re-buy the dual lands I needed to put Zombardment back together. Any thoughts on a replacement?
They are for cantripsdecks. U could play choke.Quote:
Originally Posted by coff33bit
I tested a single Silent Gravestone as my 4th GY hate SB card and it was pretty good. Against Grixis and Esper control it prevented my opponents from using Surgical and Snapcaster. It's not bad against Reanimator and Lands either. If you play green maybe Ground Seal is superior?
Unfortunately for me, I ended up playing against RiP-Helm combo (again!) and didn't put much of a fight this week. I also played against Sneak n Show and didn't know that 4 Cages were standard now so I sided out Abrade and lost.
@ReneRandrup
Squee the Immortal is interresting and gives us something to Entomb through RiP for instance. The fact that squee will never go away against Miracles is a huge grind advantage. How good is he outside of Miracles though? A 2/1 for 1RR is severely underwhelming by Legacy's standards and I find him difficult to justify when you could just Entomb for Souls instead. Perhaps as a SB card for those StP/RiP matchups where I take out Scourge?
Taken the list below to a couple of 4-1s
BRIDGEVINE BOMBARDMENT
18 MANA
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
4 Badlands
3 Swamp
1 Dakmor Salvage
2 Phyrexian Tower
1 MANA SACRIFICE
1 Phyrexian Altar
29 HORDE
4 Vengevine
4 Bloodghast
4 Gravecrawler
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Walking Ballista
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Stitcher's Supplier
1 Squee, the Immortal
4 DRAW / DISCARD
4 Faithless Looting
8 TOKEN / DAMAGE
4 Bridge from Below
4 Goblin Bombardment
SIDEBOARD
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Ingot Chewer
2 Thoughtseize
2 Cabal Therapy
2 Sudden Demise
2 Surgical Extraction
It has been good! Squee is the real deal. Obviously: I've taken some of Rene's battle-tested list and mashed it with Modern's new graveyard monster. I've ran a couple of Hangarback Walkers instead of the Altar and the immortal goblin. This feels better :)
Playing it on paper tonight.... wish me luck!
Ground Seal may be fine ... yup I am not totally impressed by Squee ... it is slow ... only shine in grind matchupQuote:
Originally Posted by Qweerios
I was a slacker and didn't zombard last night, instead jammed the much more boring RB reanimator. Unfortunately I didn't buy my bridges before the price 6x'ed. Do'H.
That being said, I think that Vieko beat me to the punch. If RB Vengevine is terrorizing modern, this deck seems like it could be the turbo charged version somehow.
Living Dead Girl was already a thing before Zombardment. The VV list posted above is a combo deck. It is both slower and more vulnerable than all the other combo decks. Some of us brewed successful Living Dead Girl lists before eventually moving on to a more combo approach (Dredge-like decks) or adopting the fair approach that Zombardment offers. You need to be able to abuse the Cabal Therapy suite to its full potential in order for this type of deck to occupy a niche in the meta otherwise you end up with a bad GY combo deck.
I remember some of the strong components of my version and I also remember I stopped playing it when they printed Cage and it was all the rage. Here's what it looked like:
4 Gravecrawler, 4 Bloodghast, and 4 Vengevine as the recursion engine
4 Deathrite Shaman -> now 4 Stitcher's Supplier, and 4 Dark Rituals for explosive starts. Of course Shaman was great for those T2 Burid Alive.
3-4 Carrion Feeder to abuse recursion and enable Crawler recursion. CMC1 zombies are great at enabling VV
3-4 Putrid Imp as another CMC1 zombie that dumps drawn VV and Ghasts
4 Buried Alive as the main way to get 3 VV or 2 VV + 1 Crawler or 3 Ghasts in the yard.
4 Thoughtseize and 4 Cabal Therapy for basic disruption
18 lands (3 Bayou, 3 Swamp, 11 Fetch, 1 Paradise)
4 flex slots that I chose to fill with Dark Confidant the time. Could be Entomb too.
The deck had a sweet 4 Liliana, 4 Decay SB plan. I think it would be possible to incorporate the staple red cards of Zombardment (Looting and Bombardment). Dark Ritual and Buried Alive were a big component of what made the deck explosive. It was easy to explode in so many directions with a T1 Ritual:
-T1 Buried Alive for 3 VV or 3 Ghasts and T2 2x creatures
-T1 TS, Therapy, Imp. T2 discard VV/Ghast, play Crawler, flashback Therapy, play Crawler trigger VV
-T1 Imp, Feeder, discard VV, Crawler, Trigger VV, swing
-T1 Buried for 2 VV 1 Crawler, T2 Zombie + Crawler, 2 VV swing
-T1 TS + Bob
-T1 Imp, discard VV, Bob, swing
-T1 Liliana postboard and ride it from there
Deck was cold to Leyline but could handle RiP and Cage just fine. Of course you want to avoid red cards when playing Ritual but there might be a good middle ground. Personally I still prefer Zombardment with Souls because I believe Souls have ridiculous potential in the current meta and the Bombardment + Zombie shell has some room for personalization.
Cool! The list runs pretty fast and feels solid to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Qweerios
I went 2-2 on paper:
2-1 vs Elves
2-0 vs D&T
0-2 vs Lands (close G1)
1-2 vs Burn (very close G1 and G3)
The many triggers, angles and possible lines is what I love about these lists. I'm certain that a pilot with more experience (looking at you Rene) would absolutely crush with it. I'm gonna keep running it for a few weeks as it was a TON of fun.
Hello there,
after a while I was able to participate in a paper tournament again. Yesterday a small and familiar competition with six players and five rounds of Legacy took place in Bremen, Germany. That was a debut in several kinds for me:
- First time playing this lovely Zombardment deck!
- First time playing aggro-control!
- First time playing a multicolor deck with dual- and fetchlands!
My weapon of choice is the following 75:
// Maindeck
4 Stitcher's Supplier
2 Carrion Feeder
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
2 Dark Confidant
2 Gurmag Angler
3 Goblin Bombardment
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls
4 Thoughtseize
3 Swamp
3 Badlands
3 Scrubland
1 Undiscovered Paradise
4 Marsh Flats
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
// SB
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Wear // Tear
1 Bitterblossom
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Sudden Demise
Here is a small report:
Match 1: Shardless BUG (my mate)
Game 1: I won the dice roll and got a strong hand with discard and business (Stitcher's Supplier). In my exile zone were all four Cabal Therapy when my opponent reached zero life.
Game 2: The value engine of Shardless Agent into Tarmogoyf was too strong for me. The thin end of the wedge was when I blocked his 4/5 Goyf with my Gurmag Angler and my opponent casts an instant to grow his green monster. I had two additional Spirit Token who should have helped blocking. My math mistake and two additional Goyfs finished me off.
Game 3: This game was very close. In the final boardstate I was at two life and controlled a Goblin Bombardment plus four creatures including Kambal, Consul of Allocation. My opponent was at six life and forced to cast the Ancestral Vision he suspended a few turns ago.
Match 2: Goblin
Game 1: This game I was on the draw but lucky enough to dodge a turn one Goblin Lackey. A few zombies and a turn two Goblin Bombardment lived up its name.
Game 2: The second game was basically the same. The bombardment of goblins began turn two once again.
Match 3: Storm: ANT
Game 1: My first discard-spell felt appart to Duress but fortunately I topdecked Thoughtseize. Yet my clock seemed too slow but my opponent fizzlet in his combo. Not sure if there was a winning line for him... this victory felt undeserved.
Game 2: All I remember is a few mulligans on the other side of the table.
Match 4: MUD
Game 1: I was afraid of a turn one Chalice of the Void but my Cabal Therapy missed. Multiple discards wrecked his hand and I was able to grind for the win.
Game 2: My opponent started the second game with a Leyline of the Void in play. Nevertheless my zombies had a good aggro start and pushed the artifact-player to six life until two Wurmcoil Engine and a Sorcerous Spyglass on Goblin Bombardment turned things around. One Wear // Tear was milled away by Stitcher's Supplier and the turn before I drew the second one a Wasteland demolished my only red source.
Game 3: Again this was a very grindy game with the better ending for me. My allstar "never-board-me-out" Cabal Therapy hit two Ugin, the Spirit Dragon right before the legendary Planeswalker could enter the battlefield.
Match 5: Combo: ANT
Game 1: My opponent got a safe win despite a few discard-spells.
Game 2: Again the fortune was on my side: The combo player found himself constrained to mull to four cards. My blind Cabal Therapy discards 50% of that hand: Two Brainstorm. A Tidehollow Sculler fresh out of the board sealed the deal for me.
Game 3: The final game of the day both competitors saw worthy staring hands. We exchanged our discards-interaction and thankfully he did not topdeck his outs for a few turns.
Final result: 5-0-0
Summary:
- Familiar and friendly atmosphere with competitive Legacy
- Divers meta with combo, aggro, midrange and chalice
- Cabal Therapy is a hell of a card in this deck!
- Even though this pile might not be tier 1: Zombardment is incredible fun to play. There is so much to learn for me with this deck. All those gimmicks and possibilities to grind out games.
- Very happy about my first tournament victory! :-)
Deck discussion:
- Two Dark Confidant and two Gurmag Angler are dangerous but both cards peformed very well.
- I swapped two Abrade out of the 75 in favor of Liliana, the Last Hope main. Two mana creature/artifact-removal was disappointing in testing. Even though there is no preboard answer for Chalice of the Void (except for turn one discard on the play). LtLH has strong synergies with the deck and is powerful versus Baleful Strix, Death and Taxed, Infect and Elves.
- With my limited access of experience I cannot see dropping white for green in this deck. Lingering Souls and half of my sideboard is white: Tidehollow Sculler, Wear // Tear, Kambal, Consul of Allocation, Zealous Persecution.
- I will test Bridge from Below and Entomb. How good is the Phyrexian Altar in this scenario?
- What do you guys think about Liliana, the Last Hope and Liliana of the Veil? Are those cc3 cards good enough?
- Creature removal (Fatal Push, Diabolic Edict, Tragic Slip) might be good in some circumstances. At least today I did not miss those one-for-one cards. Maybe versus Delver they are mandatory.
Feel free to comment my cards-choices. :-)
Greetings
Stephan
Nice going on your first tournament! Even though the sample was small, a 5-0 finnish is always good! However, I think you got incredibly lucky in some aspects concerning those matchups. Shardless bug is practically a bye for us but having Storm fall flat on their face so much is uncommon. Dodging Chalice G1 and avoiding Chalice + Leyline G2-3 is uncommon for 3 games as well. T2 Bombardment every game against no T1 Lackey/Cage will make the matchup look completely in our favor. The thing is that their odds of getting their strong t1 plays are greater than our odds of setting up bombardment t2 and those games tend to spiral out of control.Quote:
Originally Posted by EtwasSteIne
About Liliana, I think Hope is win-more and I fear you are overestimating her. Strix decks are essentially byes for us, especially G1 which is where Hope shines the most... Against DnT she costs up to 4 mana at sorcery speed and doesn't answer the problematic cards (BSK, Jitte, Crusader). Against Infect she is a T3 sorcery targeted removal (won't hit nexus)... Infect has T2-3 kills with Daze/Pierce backup. Again, Elves is a T3 combo deck and a sorcery cmc3 darkblast won't cut it there either. I play Abrade because my meta has Eldrazi, red stompy, and artifact stompy decks where I need more than 3 Wear effects postboard for Chalice + the occasional Leyline coming from them. There are also many Blade decks and DnT decks with 4 SFM and postboard RiP that can't go unchecked. The main strength of Abrade pre-board is not how the card acts in a vacuum (aka: bad bolt vs. Delver or miser 2-of against artifact decks), but how it sets you up with a bulletproof SB plan against a wide range of matchups.
I agree with you about the white splash > green. I tried brewing with Decay > Souls over the week and couldn't figure out an acceptable list without Wear in the SB. There is a lot to be said about a cmc1 enchantment removal spell that can destroy artifacts at cmc2... Leylines and Chalices simply must be addressed. Everything else white I managed to cut into but nothing compares to Wear. Also, Abrade is arguably superior to Decay in a substancial amount of matchups and Lingering Souls fill a key role even as a 2-3of.
Concerning CMC3 SB cards, I've found Veil and Ensnaring Bridge to be the main worthwhile ones. I am a big fan of Liliana because the card is a plan of its own when we are slowed down by hate cards. She comes in almost everywhere and has the ability to take over various types of decks while allowing us not to fall too far behind when we hit a road block. Bridge is narrower but highly effective against the few shaky matchups it comes in against (Eldrazi, Reanimator, SnT, Lands, Depths, even Delver/Gurmag).
Cheap creature removal is key against cheap creatures and creature centric decks. DnT, Infect, Goblins and Delver decks are prime examples. Thalia, Mom, Revoker, all of the infecters, Lackey, Shooter, Chieftain, Warchief Krenko, Delver, Shadow, Pyromancer, etc are all cards that, if they go unchecked, can easily prompt a game loss. Cards like KotR and Ooze from Maverick or TKS from Eldrazi often need an answer as well.
Again, congrats on your wins and I hope I didn't sound too negative in my analysis/opinion. My goal is to optimize Zombardment and make it competitive so I take in all the feedback possible.
Also, I am currently sitting on an optimized list with no flex slots in the 75. I am currently trying to squeeze 1-2 Ensnaring Bridges in the SB but it is proving to be quite the challenge. I incorporated some components of Rene's Bridge/Entomb list into my own Abrade list and adopted one of MD.Ghost's SB tech that really fixed my SB map. I can't wait to take it out for a test run!
Very curious about that list! I cant see a SB without 2-3 ensnaring bridges as my meta is full of eldrazi lists, its a terrible MU!Quote:
Originally Posted by Qweerios
Here's the list I've been working on:Quote:
Originally Posted by johncarvalho
3 Carrion Feeder
4 Stitcher's Supplier
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
1 Scourge of Nel Toth
2 Abrade
4 Entomb
4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
2 Lingering Souls
3 Goblin Bombardment
1 Bridge from Below
1 Undiscovered Paradise
4 Polluted Delta
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Marsh Flats
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Badlands
2 Scrubland
2 Swamp
//SB
1 Darkblast
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Fatal Push
3 Wear // Tear
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Liliana of the Veil
Right now my Eldrazi plan is:
-4 TS -4 Therapy -3 Bombardment
+3 Push +3 Wear +3 Liliana +2 EE
The idea is to make sure you can easily answer Chalice and Leyline then set up a degenerate Bridge or Scourge play and take it over from there.
If I were to include a few bridges I would probably take out Darkblast and a Liliana.